LED Light bulbs?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by rage2
My room is noticably colder with the lights on, so I think I have to crank the heat up a little, which would probably negate the effects of the energy savings in the winter.

Lol. That was the first thing I said when CFL's came out, and how "energy saving" they were supposed to be. When you have 9 incandescent bulbs on in a living room, that's a lot of heat output, and without it, you need to turn the furnace up a degree, as you said, negating the energy savings.

My basement temperature is perfect when the 12 pot lights are on. There's no way I'm changing those from incandescent, and will be pissed off when they're eventually banned.

[Mibz]

I'd love for somebody to do the math on how much heat energy is wasted on old bulbs and how that compares to what it costs an average Albertan to heat x space.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Mibz
I'd love for somebody to do the math on how much heat energy is wasted on old bulbs and how that compares to what it costs an average Albertan to heat x space.

Too many variables really. My 1037sq.ft, closed room house with a 85% efficient furnace is going to see a much bigger difference than someone else's 2011, 2500sq.ft open concept house with 95% efficient furnace, right?

As I mentioned about my basement, I have my furnace set to "23*C" (which is really just the hallway where the thermostat is, the living room is more like 21*). My basement is around 19*, if I turn on the downstairs lights, it warms up to 21* over about an hour. So I don't have to touch my thermostat when I'm down there.

[Mibz]

Agreed. However, I just want to know whether, in a closed room of a fixed volume, an average 60w bulb or an average 90% efficient furnace heats air more efficiently.

I'm not saying that the result should dictate how anybody makes life decision, I'm just curious.

[Darell_n]

I wonder if anyone makes small sodium lights for domestic use? They currently are 2-2.5 times the lumen / watt of LED.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Mibz
Agreed. However, I just want to know whether, in a closed room of a fixed volume, an average 60w bulb or an average 90% efficient furnace heats air more efficiently.

I'm not saying that the result should dictate how anybody makes life decision, I'm just curious.

That doesn't make sense.

A lightbulb is designed to give off light and heat is a by product. If you are testing how quickly a bulb can heat a room, then the light is a by product and heat is the designed output (like a heat lamp).

A 90% furnace's purpose is to create heat. 10% is lost to the environment and for the production of CO2 and water. By that account, by turning on the bulb to heat the room, you are wasting energy by creating light.

[mr2mike]

Here's my issue with going with LED's in the house.
The payout.

The charge of actual usage on your energy bills is maybe half of the total bill. The rest being service charges.
So you reduce your kWh down and save $10/month. Yet you spent $900 in bulbs. That's gonna be about a 7.5yr payout.

How many people here are keeping their house for 8yrs? Few, if any. So the future owner reaps the benefit in the end. Unless you saved all the bulbs and swap them all back, when you move.

Yes it's not a prefect science and these are all estimated values, but wanted to state that side of things, that the price of the led's doesn't outweight the end savings just yet. Maybe in a few more years as these led costs tumble.

It might be better to change bulbs in the main rooms you use at night for hours on end to LED's. The cost effectiveness would be better utilized that way (Guessing a 4 yr payout). But all in all, flourescents are still more cost effective.

[Smartiepants]

I agree with the saving changing lightbulbs. That's the main reason I'm slowly moving up to LEDs / CFLs.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by benyl


That doesn't make sense.

A lightbulb is designed to give off light and heat is a by product. If you are testing how quickly a bulb can heat a room, then the light is a by product and heat is the designed output (like a heat lamp).

A 90% furnace's purpose is to create heat. 10% is lost to the environment and for the production of CO2 and water. By that account, by turning on the bulb to heat the room, you are wasting energy by creating light.

You're missing the point. They're saying that upping the thermostat costs more than running more wasteful lightbulbs. I'm trying to figure out whether, under the specific conditions mentioned, that is true. Keep the real world out of it. This is an experiment, nothing more.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Mibz
Agreed. However, I just want to know whether, in a closed room of a fixed volume, an average 60w bulb or an average 90% efficient furnace heats air more efficiently.

I'm not saying that the result should dictate how anybody makes life decision, I'm just curious.

Assume the coldest days of the year.

1w x 3.412 = btu/h so one 60w bulb gives off 3.412 X 60 = 204 btu/h

I think the average house furnace is around 75000 btu but the cycle rate on the colder days of the year is about 80% 75000 * .8 =60000 btu. We also have to add motor heat. Assume a 75% eff 1/4 hp motor .75 * 1000 * 0.746 * 3.412 *0.25 = 477 btu/h

motor + gas = 477+60000 = 60477 btu/h

60477 / 204 = 296 light bulbs to heat your house on a very cold day.

Here in Calgary it is normally cheaper to use natural gas than electricity just because of the cost of the energy source itself.

If you need a space heated electrically or have an interior room where lighting adds heat it would be more cost effective to run cfl's or led's and a space heater because in the summer months you would probably not want to be adding heat to the space.

If you care to look into it further here is a good table found on this page ..
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/equipment/heating/2371#table3

and an energy cost calculator found here ..
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...calc/index.cfm

[rage2]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Lol. That was the first thing I said when CFL's came out, and how "energy saving" they were supposed to be. When you have 9 incandescent bulbs on in a living room, that's a lot of heat output, and without it, you need to turn the furnace up a degree, as you said, negating the energy savings.

In the summer you'd have to crank the A/C less with LED lights, since it's not heating up the room. I think that would probably make up for it.

Originally posted by mr2mike
How many people here are keeping their house for 8yrs? Few, if any. So the future owner reaps the benefit in the end. Unless you saved all the bulbs and swap them all back, when you move.

I'm definately taking the LEDs with me when I move lol.

[benyl]

I took the CFLs from my last house... You better believe I am taking the $30 LED bulbs. I am cheap half asian!

[Tomaz]

I am switching my office over to LED in the next week or two.

115 fixtures running 60W flood bulbs. The new bulbs are going to be 17W with the same light output. We worked out that it will cost $8625 to change every bulb in the place. Over a 4 year period, we will have made our money back in energy costs, plus savings of not needing to change the bulbs every year.

It is well worth the switch IMO.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by rage2

In the summer you'd have to crank the A/C less with LED lights, since it's not heating up the room. I think that would probably make up for it.

You're assuming I'm baller enough to have A/C , I also don't have many lights on in the summer as my house gets a lot of light (western facing on top of a hill with no obstructions).

I think my property is very unique in many aspects, and actually seeing the benefit of incandescent bulb heat is one of them, hahahah. My basement pot-light utilization is proof enough for me.

[prosh]

Originally posted by rage2
Are these the costco ones?

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....rodid=10342892

$16/pop, 400 lumens output. Might not be too bad. Reviews look good too. Only drawback is it's non dimmable.

I went with all dimmable ones in case I decide to add a dimmer in the future. That and I have auto-on sensor switches in my house that needs a dimmable bulb for some strange reason.

They're close but still $20 bucks/2 pack. Brand is Luminus

[alloroc]

Although I am amazed at how far led's have come I am not ready to make the switch. I'll still use the cfl lights for another year or two.

It is a personal preference but I like LOTS of light so I use 40 watt cfl's 2850 lumens in the basement, garage and over the kitchen table and 26w 1700 lumen bulbs wherever they will fit and they don't have comparable led bulbs that can match .... yet ....

[rage2]

Non dimmable, but that's a great price at $10 each!

[Redlyne_mr2]

They don't really add a warm feeling to a room. Sort of like having fluorescents in a bedroom, magnifies everything when the night gets nasty.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
They don't really add a warm feeling to a room. Sort of like having fluorescents in a bedroom, magnifies everything when the night gets nasty.

Again, LED's are available in a variety of color temps.

2700k will look exactly like an incandescent bulb.
3000k will be softer/whiter, but still much warmer than CFL/fluorescent.
4000k+ will be CFL white, or even whiter.

[bspot]

Originally posted by rage2

Supposed to be awesome. Samsung isn't allowed to sell them in South Korea because nobody can compete with them at that pricepoint, so the government banned local sales to help local companies catch up.

I thought Samsung was a local company?

Samsung Headquarters: Samsung Town, Seoul, South Korea