Social Taboo - Regret having children

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Swank
What's the criteria for a reason to be deemed valid?

Look at the all the reasons posted why they had kids. It comes down to:

1) Peer / societal pressure.

2) The contraception didn't work.

3) Young naivety.

4) I just wanted kids.

#4 then begs the question, "why"?

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by Disoblige
Anyone watch Equilibrium before?
Seth sounds like one of those emotionless beings, except he doesn't need any pills to get into that state.

Originally posted by Seth1968
I discuss things with her without judgment and emotion.

[Super_Geo]

This is the very topic that makes me realize how tough my parents were.

They had me at in their late-20s, moved halfway across the world to a country where they could barely speak the language and raised a kid on their PhD stipends while finishing their degrees. Lived in a one room basement (no, not one bedroom, the basement was one small room, things were cooked on a hot plate in the corner, bathroom was upstairs). Bought a junker with some friends that didn't have a functional starter, so always had to park on top of a hill.

But they made it work... they didn't bitch about anything, they had a plan, they were coming here to make a better life for their kids, even though it meant it was much tougher than they would've had back home, where they would've been upper-middle class.

FFWD 30 years, and we could easily afford to have a kid, and both acknowledge that at some point we definitely want two... but can't be inconvenienced at this particular point in our lives. Our deadline for having kids was determined by studies on how old women can be before having kids could result in complications or birth defects.

... I am a pampered little bitch...

[Dumbass17]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Look at the all the reasons posted why they had kids. It comes down to:

1) Peer / societal pressure.

2) The contraception didn't work.

3) Young naivety.

4) I just wanted kids.

#4 then begs the question, "why"?

Don't forget that a lot of people have kids because the relationship sucks and they figure it'll bring them closer together with their partner?

[killramos]

Originally posted by Dumbass17


Don't forget that a lot of people have kids because the relationship sucks and they figure it'll bring them closer together with their partner?

That reaks of #3

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Disoblige
Anyone watch Equilibrium before?
Seth sounds like one of those emotionless beings, except he doesn't need any pills to get into that state.

I admit I'm emotionless when compared to most, and that's by choice. I simply choose not to get angry about most things.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by G


Total respect for a man like this. A lot of dirt bags would've taken the easy out and left. R!

Yes, I definitely found a fantastic human to be my better half.

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Melinda, sounds like your family has a lot in common with mine. PPD neatly killed us. I don't know if those experiences made us less resilient, but we both have had more bouts, brought on by seemingly minor events.

Glad to hear that you are feeling healthy. I'm looking forward to that.

I feel for you, and worse that you both are dealing with mental health obstacles, that makes it much more difficult. PPD made us so much stronger in the long run. We thought we had made it through some shit before we had kids, but that was all a cake walk compared to those hurdles. Wishing you guys strength! Health feels pretty good. Just make sure you guys are taking care of yourselves, that's the best way to take care of each other.

Originally posted by Seth1968
There are a lot of profound reasons for not having children, but I've yet to see anyone post a valid reason for having children.

Back in the day, children were popped out due to no contraception, parents needing free farm labor, and selfish legacy reasons.

I think the reasons for having kids or not having kids differs for each person, but I don't think they need to be compelling, one way or the other. This isn't a 'convince me why having a kid is awesome' competition, nor should it be. People want to have kids. That's reason enough, no?

For most parents, I'd think they'd say having kids brings a special something to their life. Fulfilment, wonderment, appreciation for the little things. It's a pretty spectacular feeling to shape a little person into a functional human and watch them grow and become independent. You also get a whole ton of completely unconditional love. I'm a better person with my kids in my life. So that, along with all the other reasons above, are my reasons.

As for the rest, some people enjoy a challenge, and kids are definitely the biggest challenge you can ever imagine. Some maybe had no choice, either through their beliefs about 'accidents' or through decisions made by another person. Some people might want someone to take care of them later in life. Hell, some people might just want a sex trophy. It's honestly going to be different for each person. No one should have to justify having kids or not having kids. Live and let live.

[bigbadboss101]

We love our daughter. She is fun, polite and smart. The sleeping part is probably the hardest. My wife didn't want to do the cry it out so now at 2 years she still would cry middle of the night. She wakes up at 5am daily. All other aspects she is wonderful.

My wife wants a 2nd, I think no. Budget is not great being single income. I don't know how people have 3 or 4 or 5 kids. The ability to go anywhere after work is gone. She will be more fun when she becomes more independent. Right now mom and dad are tired and often go to bed by 10 sometimes 9.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by killramos


You sure about that? He didn't even really say anything offensive and you jumped down his throat calling him an idiot.

Say I buy a new 150k sports car, I don't need a good reason to do so I do it "because i wanted to" or " It made me happy" , but you damn well know I am going to get all sorts of judgement for it. I don't just suspect that, I EXPECT it.

But decide to have a kid or two just because I felt like it? OMGAR CONGRATULATIONS. People would be blowing smoke up my ass for years.

Both debatably make an individual happy, both not fantastic financial decisions. But one is considering socially normal, the other not.

It doesn't even have to be a potentially bad financial reason. For example, "I ate 3 bags of popcorn because I felt like it", is minuscule to, "I made a major life changing decision and brought a child into the world because I felt like it". You'd think the latter should require a lot more thought before making that decision

[SOAB]

Originally posted by killramos


You sure about that? He didn't even really say anything offensive and you jumped down his throat calling him an idiot.

Say I buy a new 150k sports car, I don't need a good reason to do so I do it "because i wanted to" or " It made me happy" , but you damn well know I am going to get all sorts of judgement for it. I don't just suspect that, I EXPECT it.

But decide to have a kid or two just because I felt like it? OMGAR CONGRATULATIONS. People would be blowing smoke up my ass for years.

Both debatably make an individual happy, both not fantastic financial decisions. But one is considering socially normal, the other not.

There is most definitely a social stigma around choosing to not have children and he is correct in pointing that out. There are a lot of stupid threads seth makes but this one really isn't close to one of them.

any time i see his username, i instantly think "tin foil hat" guy.

his one statement basically said every parent that has listed a reason to have kids in this thead are invalid or not considered "good enough for him".

if you choose to buy a 150k car because you wanted to and could afford to, good for you. if you couldn't afford it, i would call you an idiot.

calling people stupid doesn't mean i'm butthurt, it means i think they're stupid.

[rage2]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
I don't know how people have 3 or 4 or 5 kids. The ability to go anywhere after work is gone. She will be more fun when she becomes more independent. Right now mom and dad are tired and often go to bed by 10 sometimes 9.

We have 3 and we both still go out an OK amount. Just rarely together haha.

We actually planned our 3rd, with 2 we (mostly me) were a little bit cocky as to how easy it was, and still manageable without having to get a Minivan or any boring vehicle. Once the 3rd came along, we were a bit outnumbered. It's manageable, but it's definitely more work than we had envisioned.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by SOAB
his one statement basically said every parent that has listed a reason to have kids in this thead are invalid or not considered "good enough for him".

The only reason given to have kids was 'I felt like it". I don't consider that a valid answer.

If your kid did something which you consider wrong, would you accept 'I felt like it" as a valid reason? Of course you wouldn't, but society accepts that reason when making a life changing decision by bearing children.

[secol]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
Our deadline for having kids was determined by studies on how old women can be before having kids could result in complications or birth defects.
(

out of curiosity, what age did you come up with?

[ae92gts]

Originally posted by spikerS
I don't regret having my daughter, however, I do regret who I had my daughter with.

I look at some of my friends who have no kids, and I am jealous at the amount of free time they have, and their freedom both financially, and in responsibility. But If I had to do it all over again, I would without a second's thought.

This exactly for me. I love my daughter to pieces, even when my ex-wife makes it as hard as possible for me.

One thing that does make me jealous, is seeing married couples without kids who get divorced. They split up, and that's that. Splitting up with someone you have a kid with, means you're still technically forced to have a life "together".

[cycosis]

I see a good mix all day every day of couples who are in parenthood because they want to be and others that "have to be". I can tell ya, there is a major difference in the facial expressions.

Myself, I cant wait to be a dad , but I get hitched in June so shouldnt be too long

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
We love our daughter. She is fun, polite and smart. The sleeping part is probably the hardest. My wife didn't want to do the cry it out so now at 2 years she still would cry middle of the night. She wakes up at 5am daily. All other aspects she is wonderful.

If it makes you feel any better, we did do the "cry it out" thing, and ours still woke up 2-3 times a night, every night, for almost 20 months. After a year we even tried switching to "lets console her",but it didn't make a difference, she was just a shit sleeper. Just like yours though, 6am to 8pm, best little girl in the world.

Originally posted by Seth1968
4) I just wanted kids.

#4 then begs the question, "why"?

Biological conditioning. It's how every mammal, animal, etc. propagates. It's literally in our genetics to keep breeding. Unlike the rest of the world's species, we have the conscious choice to say "fuck that".

[Kloubek]

I find few "bright" areas of my life. But my son is clearly the #1 thing that keeps me going these days. It gives me purpose in life - to make sure he is raised right and is the best person he can be. It is my opportunity to end the history of abuse I received from my father, and the abuse he received from his who in turn received it from his as well. It is my opportunity to introduce someone into the world who hopefully will help battle against the selfishness and self-centeredness that has become the norm among individuals.

With that said, I think it is difficult for anyone to justify why they had children other than to say that they personally simply just wanted them... which in itself is a selfish act. Kind of hypocritical I suppose....

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Kloubek

With that said, I think it is difficult for anyone to justify why they had children other than to say that they personally simply just wanted them... which in itself is a selfish act. Kind of hypocritical I suppose....

It's almost as if there's no "right answer".... nahhhh, can't be that, then we couldn't all argue about it

[ee2k]

Originally posted by heavyD
I have two boys and zero regrets. Okay I have one regret in that I wish I had them both in my late 20's rather than mid-30's. Really if you don't have kids you have to resign yourself to the fact your retirement years will be lonely and you will probably die alone. When you get old family is all you really have.

Originally posted by heavyD


Intelligence can lead to selfishness. Smart enough to know what you will lose dinner dates, golf, vacations, etc. However you can only fill your life with so much of that superficial stuff before you realize it's pretty empty. That said some people aren't cut out to be parents. My sister has never met anyone she loves more than herself so it makes sense for her not to have kids.

There's also something to be said for keeping the family bloodlines going. You and your wife will perish one day and it's nice to know that your children will carry on your legacy. Without that you death is purely statistical.

Such absurd statements. These are the very reasons why people feel pressured to have kids in our society.

1. You are not guaranteed that your kids will be there for you in your retirement age. Ask the majority of people in old folks homes, which is where you're likely end up anyway.
2. If you have kids so you won't be lonely, you did it out of selfish reasons, so you don't feel lonely at a later date. This is especially wrong if/when such parent can't provide for a good upbringing, where the kids have to go through poverty without what they deserve to grow up with
3. With more and more single and/or childless ageing people, there'll be more people alike to keep each other social. I have multiple friends that don't want kids period.
4. Travels, dinner dates, exploration are much better than cooking up beans and counting the days on the calendar for the date that the kids will come visit one day. I'd want my life to be full of experiences and contributions, not heartaches and dependence on others.
5. Lineage? Bloodlines? Are you royalty? You must think very highly of yourself if you and your legacy is your decision factor for having kids. Again, a selfish act in my opinion.

[rx7boi]

My girlfriend wants kids eventually and we've had this talk. I only want one, maybe two. They're expensive to raise and it's a change in lifestyle so you have to be practical about what you're willing to sacrifice in order to achieve that goal.

I'd hate to have a kid and end up being resentful about all the expensive vacations I didn't take, the things I can no longer afford, and the time I no longer have. If you're in it, you're in it for the long haul.