Tesla Motors

[supe]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


And coal is clean? Lolwut?

Its a good argument but not fully correct. An EV unlike an ICE vehicle actually gets cleaner over time because the source of the energy will get cleaner and cleaner as more solar plants and wind farms get created. Further generating electricity is always going to be more efficient than what an ICE can do which is something like 20% efficient.

Originally posted by ercchry
i think licensing is key. if they are successful in starting up these quick swap battery stations. people are going to want a 5min "fuel up", license these universal battery packs to the big guys... win

Tesla is not only building cars but they are building out a charging network as well. Tesla will license out this network to other manufacturers which will generate even more cashflow to expand their business and build even more superchargers. The ball is already rolling.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[supe]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I think the only reason you can't find negative reviews is because the people who forked over way too much money for a novelty car are either too infatuated or too proud to admit it was a waste of money.

Talk about subjective. Why would it be a waste of money? The car out drags an M5 and performs like a sports car, has way more luggage space, is technologically advanced, has much less moving parts which basically means no service required and has the basically the same price tag as its ICE counter-parts. In fact when you take into account the FREE supercharger network, the savings from service and other parts of the ICE car that break down and the efficiency of fuel in general, I would argue this is a fabulous car to own as far as value goes.

Just like the hummer and other inefficient gas guzzlers once consumers realize the cost savings of EV's, ICE will not be able to compete. It may not be Tesla, but so far they are on track to do well and take a large piece of the EV market share.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[FraserB]

Your window sticker is wrong. You don't have an underbody mounted spare tire carrier

[ExtraSlow]

I'm super excited about the work that Tesla is doing, and I hope they succeed at it. I also will agree with Supe that there is the potential for centrally generated electricity to be cleaner than an ICE, although currently that's not the case in many places.

The speed at which new technology hits the vehicle market is currently faster than it transfers to the major utilities just because of the very long lifespan of those big plants. A coal fired generating station has a lifespan of 50 years or more, with only minor changes along the way. 90% of the vehcile fleet is replaced every 10 years or so.

All in all, exciting times. Every possible way to save energy in any form should be looked at.

Next step, better batteries . . . .

[rage2]

Originally posted by supe
Talk about subjective. Why would it be a waste of money? The car out drags an M5 and performs like a sports car, has way more luggage space, is technologically advanced, has much less moving parts which basically means no service required and has the basically the same price tag as its ICE counter-parts. In fact when you take into account the FREE supercharger network, the savings from service and other parts of the ICE car that break down and the efficiency of fuel in general, I would argue this is a fabulous car to own as far as value goes.

Funny thing, here's what my boss said after driving the Tesla. He's not a hardcore car guy, lives in the bay area with all the tech CEO's, so he's basically the target market for Tesla.

I test drove the Tesla. But still like the engine rev of the amg. :-)

Didn't even talk about charging stations, or convenience at all haha. Argue however you want, Tesla is still a boutique shop with a very small market target, people like supe.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by supe


Its a good argument but not fully correct. An EV unlike an ICE vehicle actually gets cleaner over time because the source of the energy will get cleaner and cleaner as more solar plants and wind farms get created.

Solar plants and wind farms are hardly even CLOSE to making a dent in global energy supplies, and won't for a very long time. I could understand using hydro (very damaging to the environment) or nuclear (waste goes where?) as an argument.

Also, you do understand that many current cars actually make the air CLEANER in places like California, right? I'm not arguing that our current resources we use for power are clean, but the scales of efficiency really do cut down quite a bit in a "per capita" comparison to renewable resources.

My point is that Tesla won't succeed. It's a glorified nerd circle jerk at worst, a niche product at best. People will get burned. Of course, I wish I had invested $50k-$100k in it and rode the boom

[supe]

Originally posted by rage2

Funny thing, here's what my boss said after driving the Tesla. He's not a hardcore car guy, lives in the bay area with all the tech CEO's, so he's basically the target market for Tesla.

Didn't even talk about charging stations, or convenience at all haha. Argue however you want, Tesla is still a boutique shop with a very small market target, people like supe.

I think as of today you’re right, its a small market and the demographics isn’t for everyone. However I think the landscape is changing. I just came back from Vancouver and kept my eye out for Tesla’s and ended up spotting a few. They are beautiful cars. Elon has stated that they have seen a balloon effect whenever they introduce cars to new areas so having these cars on the road only help to sell even more Tesla’s. Its actually funny that you mentioned that Tesla has a good marketing team, Tesla has actually spent zero on marketing and cannot keep up with demand.

I think its fair to knock the stock price of Tesla since it is extraordinarily high but to discount the company without actually ever trying it out for yourself might mean you’re missing out on the next big thing. From reading many reviews and testimonials, I don’t think your CEO is the target market, it sounds more like people that know and understand cars are the people that are most enthusiastic about Tesla, many many people are converting from BMW’s and other high end cars to the Model S but the bottom line is that this new player is competing toe to toe if not winning with the best of them.

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Solar plants and wind farms are hardly even CLOSE to making a dent in global energy supplies, and won't for a very long time. I could understand using hydro (very damaging to the environment) or nuclear (waste goes where?) as an argument.

The worlds % of renewable energy consumption in 2010 is 16% and growing. Regardless, what is your point? So because we use dirty energy today we should just give up and go on using it? Where is the hope for a better tomorrow? EV's may not be the answer but its still a step in a better direction. Go on inhaling your tailpipe emissions.

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

Also, you do understand that many current cars actually make the air CLEANER in places like California, right?

I'm highly skeptical, what car makes the air cleaner?

[Toma]

Tesla changed the world, and they are just starting.

Both GM and Nissan have publicly credited Tesla for showing them that electric is do able.

If Tesla fails or succeeds is not the issue. It's whether the idea spreads, and is embraced.

Internal combustion MUST die. Many reasons, but sorry ass efficiency alone should do it.

Now, their Hyperloop idea....

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def...loop-alpha.pdf

The company is almost worthy of the inventors name that is embraces. I love everything about it.

[Xtrema]

EVs are inevitable. It won't be mainstream any time soon but it may let us have big ICEs a bit longer. You can generate electricity from many methods but only 1 source for ICEs.

Even if we can get a hydrogen/fuel cell industry started, we are still no better off than gasoline.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Xtrema
EVs are inevitable. It won't be mainstream any time soon but it may let us have big ICEs a bit longer. You can generate electricity from many methods but only 1 source for ICEs.

Even if we can get a hydrogen/fuel cell industry started, we are still no better off than gasoline.

20 years ago, I would never have believed a 3.2 pound battery would be starting my car.

Don't forget, early 1900's New York's UPS fleet was all electric. It was crooked pennies a barrel oil that stalled technology and innovation.

[Rat Fink]

.

[rage2]

Originally posted by supe
I think as of today you’re right, its a small market and the demographics isn’t for everyone. However I think the landscape is changing. I just came back from Vancouver and kept my eye out for Tesla’s and ended up spotting a few. They are beautiful cars. Elon has stated that they have seen a balloon effect whenever they introduce cars to new areas so having these cars on the road only help to sell even more Tesla’s. Its actually funny that you mentioned that Tesla has a good marketing team, Tesla has actually spent zero on marketing and cannot keep up with demand.

I think its fair to knock the stock price of Tesla since it is extraordinarily high but to discount the company without actually ever trying it out for yourself might mean you’re missing out on the next big thing. From reading many reviews and testimonials, I don’t think your CEO is the target market, it sounds more like people that know and understand cars are the people that are most enthusiastic about Tesla, many many people are converting from BMW’s and other high end cars to the Model S but the bottom line is that this new player is competing toe to toe if not winning with the best of them.

Read my post again. I'm knocking Tesla as a company, not their cars. The stock valuation is for the company, the car is only a small part of the valuation. They're a boutique manufacturer and will have problems scaling up if they want to be "the next best thing". They do not have the resources today to compete with the big manufacturers when EV's hit critical mass (ie, my boss the non hardcore car guy will want one).

As for their marketing, I said nothing about marketing spend. I don't know how much they spend, but they have a marketing department that knocks out press releases, posts on social media sites, and generate buzz. They're doing a terrific job of it.

Originally posted by Toma
Don't forget, early 1900's New York's UPS fleet was all electric. It was crooked pennies a barrel oil that stalled technology and innovation.

Originally posted by Rat Fink
Henry Fords wife even drove an electric car in the early 1900s

Electric cars were very popular before internal combustion engines were refined and became reliable, for decades they were the choice of cars. There were no roads connecting cities, so EV's worked well for localized use. ICE cars took over because it was more powerful, had much longer range, cheaper to run, and "recharging" was quick. When cities became connected by roads, it was game over. EV's disappeared because it couldn't overcome these issues. Today, I think 2 of those issues have been fixed (cost per mile, power). Once range and recharging can be comparable to ICE cars, that's probably when we'll see things shift again towards EVs.

No oil conspiracy, just technological advances.

[Super_Geo]

I'm really excited for Tesla. If I were in the market for a $100k vehicle, I would give them a strong look.

Food for thought:

» Click image for larger version

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by supe

I'm highly skeptical, what car makes the air cleaner?

When compared to the ambient air quality in large metro centres like LA, a lot of cars today shoot out less PPM of greenhouse gasses.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Tomaz
When compared to the ambient air quality in large metro centres like LA, a lot of cars today shoot out less PPM of greenhouse gasses.

I think it's the other way around. There's less hydrocarbons than ambient air in places like LA, but there's definately more CO and CO2 coming out the tailpipe than what's in the air.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by rage2

I think it's the other way around. There's less hydrocarbons than ambient air in places like LA, but there's definately more CO and CO2 coming out the tailpipe than what's in the air.

Ah right, it's before noon. thanks for the correction. lol

[AudiPWR]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
And yet I'd still take a M5 any day of the week...

My Hummer gets great gas milage btw, lol.

A H3T is hardly a hummer..More like a glorified Blazer.

[supe]

Originally posted by rage2

Read my post again. I'm knocking Tesla as a company, not their cars. The stock valuation is for the company, the car is only a small part of the valuation. They're a boutique manufacturer and will have problems scaling up if they want to be "the next best thing". They do not have the resources today to compete with the big manufacturers when EV's hit critical mass (ie, my boss the non hardcore car guy will want one).

Read this headline:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/13/auto...udi/index.html

In their first attempt at a mass production car they are already beating out some big names, so if you say boutique, I guess it depends on your definition.

You're also giving the big auto companies too much credit. These companies are very slow moving machines. Many are unionized and all have to work through a dealer network that all steal from the bottom line. Further these car companies have spent decades of R&D and built factories to build ICE vehicles which they won't want to throw away. Their own dealer networks will resist EV's because of their low maintenance costs, and we all know how dealerships make money.

Tesla is more nimble with the direct to consumer strategy because there is no need for a middle man. They are dumping every dollar back into scaling up their operation and reducing costs because that is their long term strategy from the start. Elon is also leveraging real life space technology from SpaceX into Tesla which is a huge advantage both for cost savings and for being technologically advanced. Once Tesla releases an SUV then their lower price Gen3 they will have a very compelling vehicle for each market segment.