Windows 10 Reboot Loop

[Seth1968]

^

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I talked to the Memex Tech again and he said he tested my PSU and found no issues. Unfortunately the issue *did not* happen for the tech at all, but did happen when I dropped it off so the person who checked me in witnessed it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

If I can get out early enough today I'm going to pick up the identical PSU at Memory Express and try that. Should be a quick swap since it's modular and I can leave all the cables in place.

If that doesn't fix it, I guess it's the mobo or some environmental factor I haven't discovered.

My PSU Does have the following:

Heavy Duty Protection Circuitry:
OVP (Over Voltage Protection)
UVP (Under Voltage Protection)
OCP (Over Current Protection)
OPP (Over Power Protection)
SCP (Short Circuit Protection)

I wonder if one of those is bring tripped (either as a malfunction or not) which cuts the power. The "click" I hear does sound like I would expect protection circuitry to.

That doesn't explain why the issue repeated itself when dropped off at Memex though, or how I've been running for a month previously without issues.


The only other thing I can think of that is possibly relevant is that each shutdown from a windows state seems to happen when I initiate a process after it sits for a while. For example, I have it running idle in windows for 1 hr, then i double click the League of Legends icon --> boom shutdown. I have it running idle for a bit, then click on Photoshop --> shutdown. I have it running for a bit then I click in the search box which brings up some options and--> shutdown. It never shuts down from windows just sitting idle, only after I initiate a process. The first time this ever happened was after 2 hours of plex streaming in an otherwise idle state, and I clicked the Firefox icon --> Shutdown

[Mitsu3000gt]

I don't want to jinx anything but I have a possibly interesting development. I've been using my computer for about 2 hours now without issues. Installed Photoshop and set up a bunch of other stuff on the new SSD. Been doing lots of things I couldn't do before (at least not for long). I also transferred 128GB of files to a USB drive successfully.

I turned off the "ECO MODE" switch on my PSU. I plugged in my USB devices to a different row of USB ports than I have been using for the past ~5 years. I also reinstalled my 3 additional storage HDDs.

That's it...so far so good. Any thoughts as to why either of those two things would make any difference at all? Perhaps my PSU still isn't functioning perfectly, but disabling ECO Mode has bypassed some sort of fault? Or maybe nothing is fixed and this is just lucky.

[Seth1968]

Eco mode controls the PSU fan. Although I don't know if it does anything else, or whether it's controlled by load or temperature.

Perhaps in eco mode a fault protection relay is being tripped, and that's what you heard?

[revelations]

I've seen issues on many devices with "eco" mode turned on. From switches, powerbars, to HDDs etc. it seems like a good failure point.

If you now, cannot replicate the problem, I would say you have managed to isolate the issue.
If the issue persists, the next step is to disconnect all peripherals that you can do without, to replicate the issue.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
It says "Automatic repair could not repair your PC"

That's reg / file corruption caused by the abrupt shut downs. In such an instance start up repair often fails, but if the drive is slaved, or you can get to a command prompt, then a manual chkdsk usually succeeds.

BTW- When the system is running fine, create a new restore point, as the previous ones may be pooched.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Yeah as far as I can tell, ECO mode just keeps the fan off on the PSU until it hits a certain temperature, I think 55C which it would likely never even hit in my cold basement. It is a physical switch on the PSU and you need to open the PC case to access it. It does nothing else as far as I know or as far as the manual says.

I don't think using different USB ports mattered because it sill died at memex without any peripherals other than the monitor connected.

[Seth1968]

Is it still running ok with eco mode off?

[Mitsu3000gt]

I still don't trust it, but yes so far so good with ECO mode off still (knock on wood).

[Mitsu3000gt]

It died again under the precise circumstances as the original time the issue occurred. Computer was on for hours without issues, I woke it up, and clicked on Firefox (I think i could have clicked on anything) and "click" hard shutdown and it begins the hard power on/off loop. Not sure anymore, I thought I was on to something after I got 2 full days of usage after turning off eco mode.

The only thing I've confirmed is that it will be virtually impossible to diagnose going forward because I've now had as long as 2 days of perfect operation, so any success I might get in the future means nothing until a long time has passed.

Also, the dozen or so programs I installed on the weekend are now gone. I think it did some sort of automatic restore point. They are totally gone, as if I had never installed them.

[revelations]

Grab that PSU.

[UndrgroundRider]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I don't think it's the PSU because if I can get past certain startup points (there is a pattern of about 10 progressively longer reboots before it lets me into recovery mode) it will run indefinitely. If my PSU was the issue it would be indifferent to what the rest of my computer was doing.

IMHO, stop trying to overthink the failure modes here. The interactions between different components are too complicated to logic out without an intimate low level knowledge of the entire system. For example, you may be hitting over current protection, and the 1/10th time you make it past the loop is because a HDD is delayed spinning up or something of that nature. Or maybe you have a bad solder joint on your mobo that separates after enough thermal expansion and it takes ~10 reboots to cool off and make a solid connection again. Literally there are tens of thousands of ways the system can fail like this.

Your best bet is to swap 1 part at a time until you eliminate the problem.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by revelations
Grab that PSU.

One step ahead of you Drove in today so I can get one on the way home. Should actually be a very easy swap. Then, *if* it works, I need to let it run for many days through various tasks.

If the PSU doesn't fix it, I believe at this point it has to be mobo or environmental.

Two more kind of strange issues happened

1) My computer won't recognize my eSATA portable/backup hard drive anymore.

2) My MS Office 2007 is now corrupted and won't uninstall or repair itself, so I will have to find some way to delete it or uninstall it without leaving any junk behind.

[Seth1968]

If you don't have the key for Office, then the first thing to do is run Belarc advisor to get the key, then run Revo to uninstall Office. If you don't have the disk for a re-install, you can get Office from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...=en-US&ref=o12

As far as the external drive goes, try another port and / or see if it shows up in the BIOS and disk management.

I'm still leaning toward the PSU as the main culprit, but you've got some really varied symptoms.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks Seth, I'll try Revo uninstall.

I *think* what happened is that it may or may not be the most genuine copy of Office 2007. Windows did a fairly significant update, and then when I try to run Excel or Word, it says the files are corrupted because Windows can't access certain files. I ran this copy for years on my previous SSD without issues, but it's possible the latest windows update did something. Only problem is now I can't uninstall it, so I will try Revo. I've tried the windows uninstaller and also CCLeaner's uninstaller with no luck. Your link has Office 2007 though, so I will try that out first with the Key I have.

Can you even buy MS office anymore without getting the monthly Office 360 plan? I use it like twice a year so I'm not going to pay monthly for it. Maybe I'll just use google docs and forget about it altogether.

As for the external drive, I tried both of my eSATA ports (only have 2), but I haven't checked the BIOS yet so I can try that when I get back up and running.

After one of the hard shutdowns, windows said it was repairing the C drive (my OS drive) and that's when it seemed to revert back to 3 days ago, undoing all of the things I installed over the weekend EXCEPT the Excel 2007 - it kept that for some strange reason, and now I can't remove it.

And yeah, if it's not my PSU I guess it's my mobo. I did some looking and I don't think I can even buy my mobo anymore, or any LGA1155 mobo's, so I will probably have to buy a new mobo/cpu just to see if it's the mobo. I won't be too upset if I need to do that, but I was hoping to wait until 2H 2017 to buy a full new system.

[Seth1968]

Yes, you can buy older versions of Office from sites like Amazon. BTW- I still use Office XP even on my W8. Installed the office Compatibility pack to open DocX and it's good to go

One other thing you can try other than swapping the PSU. Disable the auto restart on system failure. It should then show a BSOD instead of restarting.

PC Properties>Advanced System Settings>Settings, and you'll see the restart the option.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I did actually try disabling auto-restart on system failure pretty early on in my troubleshooting process and unfortunately it did absolutely nothing. The hard power-downs and power-ups seemed to ignore that setting regardless. I feel like this also points toward the PSU, since it doesn't matter what PC settings I have selected if power is being physically cut.

My biggest fear is that the PSU is working just fine, but something to do with the house/wall power is tripping a protection circuit. Nothing else plugged into those outlets though have any issues whatsoever.

I'll install an identical PSU this evening and we will see I guess. I have 7 days to test it before it has to go back to Memex.

[Seth1968]

Yep, that's why I said, "should", but a better term would have been "might".

Windows ignoring the option typically means Windows doesn't even know it due to component failure.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Yeah I am 99.999% sure it's hardware ever since the new SSD didn't fix it.

Even if the wall power isn't great, it should be getting conditioned through my UPS which has these features:

Line Interactive Topology
Exists when a line interactive UPS has an autotransformer that regulates low voltages (e.g., brownouts) and over voltages (e.g., spikes) without having to switch to battery.

Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
Provides clean, consistent AC power by automatically increasing (boosting) low voltage without using battery power when incoming utility power experiences minor fluctuations.

Fingers crossed on the PSU swap.

[Seth1968]

You tried it without the UPS right? Although it could still be a line issue.

The other factor is it happened once at Memex (that we know of). I say that because like any repair tech, we shudder at intermittent issues.