Speed Theory - experiences?

[buh_buh]

Anyone do their shopping there? I've been in and out a couple times this week because I've been eyeing a bike they have on sale. I've been talking to the same guy both times I'd been in there. So the last time I'm in there, we agreed on a price, which was sale price of bike with no tax. I tell him I'll mull over it and let him know (because I was looking at the same bike second hand) that came with upgraded wheels.

So I go in on Wednesday looking to buy the bike, and it's a different guy there. I tell him I'm here to pick up said bike, guy I've been talking to says he'll do it for me no tax. Right away he puts the brakes on it, gives me the "I didn't authorize that, we never give deals on sale bikes, this is the best deal on the shop, etc." I didn't know the name of the guy I'd been talking to, but I described him, and right away he goes "oh, he's new. He doesn't know what he 's doing, he has no authority and overstepped his boundaries".

So he says he'll text the only other guy in the shop that could've authorized this. So I'm pretty cool with it at this point, as I'm sure the guy I'd been dealing with had asked somebody before agreeing to this, so I hang out in the shop for a while and browse, and after about 10 or 15 minutes, he's not getting a text back and they're going to close. He asks me to leave and come back another day, and at this point I'm starting to get ticked off, because I came in to drop a large amount of cash down on a bike, guy in there plays it off like either I'm a liar/the new guy doesn't know what he's doing, and asks me to leave and spend my money here another day.

He calls me the next day and leaves me a voicemail, saying no can do, bike is already too cheap. Can't do no tax even though it was already agreed upon. I went in today and talked to the same guy on Thursday, and he says there's nothing he can do, can't give me any deal on the bike.

Am I in the right to be ticked off about this? They won't stand behind a price one of their employees agreed to with a customer, and won't concede anything? He offered to give me a deal on any accesories I'd buy, but I didn't need anything, and it's pretty standard for most bike shops to offer sales on accessories anyway when purchasing a bike. Shops like this make me want to take my shopping online and not support the local businesses.

[lilmira]

I have never bought anything from there. It's always kinda empty in there.

Who knows? May be the first guy did step out of bound. It's still the shop's fault for having a guy who doesn't know what's he's doing. They could have definitely done a better job to earn a customer.

What kind of bike are you looking at? I can't recommend Cyclepath North enough. I'm likely getting another bike from them soon as they are giving me super sweet deal without much negotiation.

[kJUMP]

Hey man, sorry to hear it didn't work with that bike deal. I'm not sure what you can do if the manager ain't gonna honor the price. I've never bought a bike from them but have got some gear and asked questions etc. They seem friendly for the most part but a bit standoffish too...

Which bike were you gonna buy? If it's Argon 18 or Felt check out Cactus Bike and Ski on Horton Road. The manager's name is Steve and he seems pretty motivated to sell and make a deal. If you're into Cervelo it may be worthwhile to go visit Cranked in Airdrie, the manager's name is Andy. Bow Cycle also sells Cervelo but I've never been a fan of that shop, it's just too huge.

Cyclepath North/South as mentioned also good, they carry the big American brands Giant and Trek with a lot of models from which to choose.

[buh_buh]

I've been looking at a Cervelo R5, which I'll admit they have a good deal on right now. I didn't expect anything to happen out of it. Was just hoping they'd at least somewhat stand behind one of their employee's words and agreed upon price with a customer. Just frustrating to have a deal with a bike shop, then have it taken away.

And similar to you kJUMP, if they weren't so standoffish about the whole thing, especially when it's a customer looking to spend money at your shop, I wouldn't be as ticked off about it. The way I see it, even if you're losing out on the $200 or split the difference at $100, it's a good gesture to the customer and they're more likely to come back and spend money on other full priced items down the road.

[msommers]

Personally I don't like how they're backing out like that. Your employee fucked up, take ownership about it and move on. How slim are their margins I wonder.

How much were they selling the R5 for, regardless of the tax mentioned?

Part of me is thinking about moving out of my CAAD10 into something a little less aggressive (probably not R5 territory but I said that about my Neo lol).

[kJUMP]

Originally posted by buh_buh
I've been looking at a Cervelo R5, which I'll admit they have a good deal on right now. I didn't expect anything to happen out of it. Was just hoping they'd at least somewhat stand behind one of their employee's words and agreed upon price with a customer. Just frustrating to have a deal with a bike shop, then have it taken away.

And similar to you kJUMP, if they weren't so standoffish about the whole thing, especially when it's a customer looking to spend money at your shop, I wouldn't be as ticked off about it. The way I see it, even if you're losing out on the $200 or split the difference at $100, it's a good gesture to the customer and they're more likely to come back and spend money on other full priced items down the road.

Wow, the R5 is a tour-ready race and climbing bike, there is no way you could be disappointed riding such a machine. I would wait until mid-week and then call (not go in) the guy with whom you made the initial deal. See if anything has changed and if they will honour the price. If they can't and it's still a good deal, then push them hard on the accessories. I'm sure you would need pedals, carbon water bottle cages, or a power meter? Maybe 3 years worth of tune ups? Just throwing out ideas. But if you're soured on the whole experience at ST, which is totally legit and their loss, it's worthwhile checking out Cranked or Bow Cycle. If I'm not mistaken, there's a new R5 model to be released for 2017 which is why prices are dropping and someone must be motivated to sell.

Originally posted by msommers
Personally I don't like how they're backing out like that. Your employee fucked up, take ownership about it and move on. How slim are their margins I wonder.

How much were they selling the R5 for, regardless of the tax mentioned?

Part of me is thinking about moving out of my CAAD10 into something a little less aggressive (probably not R5 territory but I said that about my Neo lol).

I'm not in the big leagues talking about buying R5s like the both of you but I have a 2015 S2 which I bought as a closeout last year. I like supporting the smaller companies. The LBS had already upgraded it to full mechanical Ultegra and then I put on a Mavic Cosmic Carbon 40 wheels. It rides like an absolute dream, no issues or regrets. There are no geometry differences between the R2/3 and the S2/3. The R is slightly lighter, the S more aero, I rode both and couldn't tell a damn difference lol. Still, I intended to buy the R2 but then I came across this review that is so well written comparing the 2015s that I went with the S.

http://redkiteprayer.com/2014/07/the-cervelo-r3-and-s3/

PS. How you liking the Neo? Mine's a beaut, takes a while to pair though, especially the cadence sensor. Very quiet and "real" feeling but I'm mostly doing workouts as opposed to free rides. Scaling of sudden power changes happens pretty quickly, I haven't really noticed much lag. Also very quiet.

[buh_buh]

So, bit of an update. I went back in and talked to the same guy. He kept giving me the "We're not in the business to lose money", which I get, but I don't imagine their margins are that low on bikes. I did shop around a bit and Bow Cycle was selling the same R5 for $800 more, so it was definitely a good deal from that perspective.

I offered to split the difference on the GST, which he still wouldn't do. The way the back and forth was going just kind of made me feel like I was trying to nickel and dime him, which wasn't my intent at all. All he would offer me was a discount on accessories like new wheels or tires, none of which I needed.

I asked him if there was anything he could do for me for a bike fit, and right away he responds with "The GST difference is $200, I already calculated it. I can't give you a free $250 bike fit". In the end, he begrudgingly agreed to knocking $100 off the bike fit (which is the same price as splitting the GST). I thought he'd be more willing to give on the bike fit since that's 100% labor, but no dice.

So I ended up with the bike, paid full GST, but got $100 off my bike fit, which is something I knew I wanted anyway. I'm not thrilled with the customer service, and I'm confident I won't spend a dime there on anything I need in the future. The entire experience from beginning to end was extremely frustrating from a customer perspective, especially because I went out of my way to ensure I kept my cool and didn't lose my shit on them, even when I was tempted to on numerous occasions.

Originally posted by msommers
Personally I don't like how they're backing out like that. Your employee fucked up, take ownership about it and move on. How slim are their margins I wonder.

How much were they selling the R5 for, regardless of the tax mentioned?

Part of me is thinking about moving out of my CAAD10 into something a little less aggressive (probably not R5 territory but I said that about my Neo lol).

100% agreed, that was what my issue was with the entire thing in the first place. They did tell me they make no money on bikes (which I highly doubt), but that most of their margins are on the accessories like wheels, tires, etc.

The CAAD10 is a great bike, if you can handle the long rides on it, I'd try and hang onto it. I found a professional bike fit to be really beneficial from a comfort and power perspective.

The R5 was $4000, and like I said, Bow Cycle was asking $4850 for the same bike.

Originally posted by kJUMP


Wow, the R5 is a tour-ready race and climbing bike, there is no way you could be disappointed riding such a machine.

You're right, I'm pretty happy with the bike itself. Hard to say right now as I've only done trainer rides with the crap weather outside. I'm looking forward to riding it outside though.

The only thing I gotta figure out now is how to get my 10 speed Shimano wheels onto this 11 speed bike. There's a couple solutions out there, none of which are great. Just don't want to have to get new wheels too.

[Disoblige]

You definitely have a right to be ticked off. If it was me, on the first visit, I would have told him to call instead of waiting for the text. After that point, I would have truly judged what their response would be.

But just reading the experience on here, it doesn't sound like a shop I would be interested in dealing with.

[lilmira]

So 3800 if they were to pay the GST? I can see them being butt hurt as they may not have much margin left with overhead. But hey, don't hire sales people to randomly give out price that you can't honour. Be super apologetic about it to the point to make the other guy feel bad. Keeping a long term customer is way more important than a one time deal. Bike fit doesn't cost them anything if the guys are just standing around. That would be a no brainer give-away to make you happy.

Aren't most shimano wheels 10/11 speed interchangible?

I imagine that there will be a newer R5 with the Dura Ace 9100s so the current one will be discounted soon. The next Ultegra group may not come out anytime soon.

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by msommers
Personally I don't like how they're backing out like that. Your employee fucked up, take ownership about it and move on. How slim are their margins I wonder.

For the sake of conversation - something to consider from my old retail days. Generally speaking we didn't set or control the prices - the brands and distributors themselves set price points including when things could go on sale and by how much. If we didn't stick to those guidelines we risked losing our license (or authorized retailer status) to carry and distribute that brand. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some level of pricing control between ADs and brands, though it may be a bit more fluid in bicycles (and definitely so in vehicles).

Major brands are pretty protective of their dealers, if they hear one of their ADs is undercutting the others you can bet they'd be pissed and for Speed Theory, making a sale to a single customer isn't worth (potentially) losing out with their supplier.

[msommers]

Originally posted by XylathaneGTR


For the sake of conversation - something to consider from my old retail days. Generally speaking we didn't set or control the prices - the brands and distributors themselves set price points including when things could go on sale and by how much. If we didn't stick to those guidelines we risked losing our license (or authorized retailer status) to carry and distribute that brand. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some level of pricing control between ADs and brands, though it may be a bit more fluid in bicycles (and definitely so in vehicles).

Major brands are pretty protective of their dealers, if they hear one of their ADs is undercutting the others you can bet they'd be pissed and for Speed Theory, making a sale to a single customer isn't worth (potentially) losing out with their supplier.

I feel ya man and that is a very reasonable answer to provide. Hell I doubt anyone would get in a tiff if that had been their response.

Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case and the "we're not in the business to lose money" response pretty much set the tone of how this transaction was going to go down. Since Buh Buh needed a fit, and this is their time charged, they could have provide something to make up the difference.

Sadly there are a couple bike shops in town that, I suspect, their core customers are wealthy individuals that just point and say 'I'll take it' (do I need to bring up how much I hate The Bike Shop again? Apparently yes!) and customer services goes out the window. So for someone to been talking about a couple hundred bucks (rightly so here), it probably came across as bothersome and they're totally above dealing with this!...

I still stand by what I mentioned earlier. They could have handled this situation better but didn't.

This is all rather unfortunate as I was going to get a fit done by these guys after such high praise previously. But hearing petty things like this from a store really rub me the wrong way.

[lilmira]

The bike shop has been bought out recently. I would give them a try. The new owner is aware of the old image.

[msommers]

Thank Christ

[kJUMP]

Originally posted by buh_buh
So I ended up with the bike, paid full GST, but got $100 off my bike fit, which is something I knew I wanted anyway. I'm not thrilled with the customer service, and I'm confident I won't spend a dime there on anything I need in the future. The entire experience from beginning to end was extremely frustrating from a customer perspective, especially because I went out of my way to ensure I kept my cool and didn't lose my shit on them, even when I was tempted to on numerous occasions.

Dude, congrats on the ride! It's a bummer about your experience but I do think you got a good deal. The bike fit is an important piece so glad they were able to move a bit on that. ST has to improve their customer service/relations, because the harsh reality is that they won't survive otherwise. It's a competitive market for not that many pure road cyclists in a short riding season so you have to go above and beyond.ca to get the customer back, and potentially, their family and friends.

Either way, I hope your R5 works well for ya and you get some good miles riding. Speaking of which, we def all need to have a Beyond meetup this spring, will let lilmira organize it

[kJUMP]

Originally posted by msommers
Thank Christ

Bro, just amp up and buy a new ride. You know you want to/got to/have to

On Pinkbike, there's a new 2017 R2 105 for $2499, $2999 with full Ultegra. Apparently, bike fit also included, must be out of a shop. Not sure what's the deal with GST etc, but worthwhile to inquire. You can maybe try to make a deal on a set of light climbing wheels or something a bit more aero and then you're golden

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2119088/

[lilmira]

We can always go for bike and beer.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by lilmira
So 3800 if they were to pay the GST? I can see them being butt hurt as they may not have much margin left with overhead. But hey, don't hire sales people to randomly give out price that you can't honour. Be super apologetic about it to the point to make the other guy feel bad. Keeping a long term customer is way more important than a one time deal. Bike fit doesn't cost them anything if the guys are just standing around. That would be a no brainer give-away to make you happy.

Aren't most shimano wheels 10/11 speed interchangible?

I imagine that there will be a newer R5 with the Dura Ace 9100s so the current one will be discounted soon. The next Ultegra group may not come out anytime soon.

$4000 if they paid the GST. I still feel like I got a good deal on it as Bow Cycle has it for $4850 as their sticker price, but just still a little miffed about the entire experience and the tone of the entire conversation. Based on my experience there, it seems they don't value keeping a long term customer at all (and I've already been a repeat customer).

Unfortunately for me, Shimano 10 speed wheels aren't interchangable with 11 speed if you're running a Shimano groupset. Campy is completely interchangable, but Shimano made their 11 speed cassette wider than their 10 speed cassette, so it doesn't fit on the 10 speed freehub. There's a few workarounds I've found, so just debating whether I want to spend money on a new cassette or just scrap the idea altogether and just get 11 speed wheels.

[kJUMP]

Originally posted by buh_buh

$4000 if they paid the GST. I still feel like I got a good deal on it as Bow Cycle has it for $4850 as their sticker price, but just still a little miffed about the entire experience and the tone of the entire conversation. Based on my experience there, it seems they don't value keeping a long term customer at all (and I've already been a repeat customer).

Unfortunately for me, Shimano 10 speed wheels aren't interchangable with 11 speed if you're running a Shimano groupset. Campy is completely interchangable, but Shimano made their 11 speed cassette wider than their 10 speed cassette, so it doesn't fit on the 10 speed freehub. There's a few workarounds I've found, so just debating whether I want to spend money on a new cassette or just scrap the idea altogether and just get 11 speed wheels.

What kind of Shimano wheels are they? I would get another set man, you just bought a new R5. You can flip your old wheels on Kijiji or PB or keep them for inclement weather if you find a solution to make them fit. If you like Mavic, think about reaching out to Rob Nowakowski, who's a Mavic dealer in Calgary. Midway through last year, I got a demo set of full carbon 40mm depth rims that looked to me brand new, or ridden a handful times, 1400CAD all in, got to pay by card too. I don't have his email, but number is 587-999-1043. He had a bunch of others as well for slightly less but they weren't full carbon.

[buh_buh]

Dura Ace C24s. I'd like to upgrade the wheels, but also can't stomach the cost right now since I just bought this bike. From the research I've done, I either have to machine down the freehub (my last choice), machining down the cassette a few mm, or getting a compatible cassette, which a few companies do.

I'll probably try to hang onto these until next year at the very least when I can justify new wheels too, although $1400 for a set of full carbon 40mm rims is a pretty damn good deal. Maybe once I sell my old bike I'll hit this guy up.

And I'm definitely down for a bike and beer once the snow is gone.

[lilmira]

Must be older C24 then, too bad. That sounds too much messing around to make it work. You can just get the new 9100 dura ace C24 rear wheel. Though a set is not much more.

KJUMP got a good deal for sure. I don't think any shop can match that.

Sounds good. I'll start a bike and beer thread as we get closer to the riding season.