Autopilot Showdown: Tesla P85D vs Mercedes E63S Wagon

[revelations]

Originally posted by asd913


Really, so if turbulence hits the plane and it is being shaken to all shit, the pilot is drinking tea out of a sippy cup reading beyond.ca?

Sometimes, yes. The AP on most heavies doesn't disconnect with every bump - you'd have to have some fairly serious altitude and heading deviations. The AP at cruise does a much better job than most humans - unless something goes wrong mechanically/electrically.

[asd913]

So you're telling me it's not mature in aviation either. Let's all get our pitchforks out for Boeing's hype machine.

[revelations]

I dont follow. AP is in use more often than not - with regard to the heavies that fly for the mainline fleets. I would consider the technology/software to be mature.

With respect to the same fleet - (heavy, mainline) most serious accidents (excluding mechanical failure) these days are caused by pilots who are NOT on AP exclusively.

[rage2]

Originally posted by VWEvo
It's only a matter of time until other manufacturers come up with an "auto pilot" so I'm not completely surprised to hear that Mercedes has developed a better system. Not sure it can do over the air updates like the Tesla. Being a Tesla owner now for 7 months, the autopilot is easily my favorite feature i use it all the time. 2nd favourite feature is over the air updates. Interested to see how autopilot has changed since i've purchased the car back in October. The AP that is currently in the car is definitely improved over the version when i purchased it. Its cool to know that it will only likely get better and I don't have to pay a cent for it. If the mercedes can't do this (and I suspect it can't), it is a bummer for a developing technology.

OTA is in the works from pretty much every manufacturer. Delphi is looking to have it in place that can update older vehicles as well.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/9581/de...d-and-new-cars

AP is really gaining ground though with everyone else. It goes to show what the big car manufactures can do when they decide they want in on the action. Since my post on Drive Pilot, MB is releasing the updated version in the S Class that bumps autonomous driving situations from 20% to 80%. The S class system now eases off/brakes for curves and intersections and regains speed after it's been cleared. The AMG version is even more hilarious (and totally useless IMO), in C mode it'll take corners gently, in S mode it'll brake aggressively, throttle blip downshift, corner harder, and exit harder. What a waste haha. MB's system is still only at the top of Level 2 Autonomy, they're not looking at Level 3 until 2020. Audi, while quiet in all this, is ready with their Level 3 setup at the end of the year, but just like Tesla, pending regulatory approval.

For those that care what these levels mean...

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/...e-differences/

We're looking at Level 2 and 3 systems today. What revelations is looking for is Level 5 which is a ways off.

Originally posted by benyl
You are driving a rolling iPhone. Next gen AP will come out with new / better hardware and you won't get those "free" updates anymore. It's already happened once and I am sure some people who bought the Model S right before the new hardware are pissed.

It's only a matter of time before other card companies follow suit on the OTA updates. People will begin to demand it.

To be fair, nobody's really pissed. Yet. HW1 guys are still happy with their AP. HW2 is still work in progress and doesn't even have the same level of AP functionality and accuracy as HW1. There's a handful of HW2 cars getting into all sorts of random accidents, and music to Sugarphreak's ears, they're literally driving themselves off the road for no reason so if anything, it's the HW2 guys that are bitching today. Was talking to B18C about this over dinner last month, and the way Tesla handled the HW2 fiasco (mainly driven by the Mobileye divorce) is just brutal. It's the difference between a software/tech company and the big boys how they approached the rollout.

Based on VWEvo's delivery date, his X should be HW1 which is a more refined and better working system today.

Originally posted by asd913
Keep dreaming. Car companies can't do over the air updates because of dealership power. Any update is considered a service and therefore must involve a dealer. Dealers won't allow it as they don't get paid.

Nobody goes into the dealership to get software updates. Hell 90% the time you go in for service, you're not getting updates. Dealers only update the software when there are problems. Not surprisingly, dealer associations aren't opposed to OTA updates at all.

[asd913]

Originally posted by revelations
I dont follow. AP is in use more often than not - with regard to the heavies that fly for the mainline fleets. I would consider the technology/software to be mature.

With respect to the same fleet - (heavy, mainline) most serious accidents these days are caused by pilots who are NOT on AP.

You are saying automobile autopilot won't be mature until it works in extreme winter conditions. But you accept that aviation autopilot turns off in extreme flight conditions.

Pilots still need to actively pilot planes on autopilot and be ready to take over at any time. Same goes for cars.

My point is that it seems a bit demanding to call autopilot for cars mature only after it can do things that the original named technology can't do.

[asd913]

Originally posted by rage2

Nobody goes into the dealership to get software updates. Hell 90% the time you go in for service, you're not getting updates. Dealers only update the software when there are problems. Not surprisingly, dealer associations aren't opposed to OTA updates at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BMWi3/comme..._this_serious/

Dealership associations will only be okay with major software updates if they can get paid for the update. It doesn't create a condition for car companies to want to improve the cars they've already sold through OTA.

[revelations]

Originally posted by asd913


You are saying automobile autopilot won't be mature until it works in extreme winter conditions. But you accept that aviation autopilot turns off in extreme flight conditions.

Pilots still need to actively pilot planes on autopilot and be ready to take over at any time. Same goes for cars.

My point is that it seems a bit demanding to call autopilot for cars mature only after it can do things that the original named technology can't do.

I wouldn't say that driving in winter qualifies as "extreme" in Alberta. The roads were covered for good stretches of time in many locations this past season so this would constitute NORMAL WINTER conditions for us. You put on winter tires and adjust your driving.

Extreme turbulence (or other serious Wx) are rare events so I don't know why you'd choose to correlate that with normal, winter driving conditions here.

Right now many vehicle APs fail in heavy rain and other routine weather events. They also don't avoid the (again, routine) massive potholes in our roads (maybe some do?) so right now, the technology works GREAT under GREAT conditions (think sunny california) but for the REAL world, its not mature yet.

[rage2]

Originally posted by asd913
https://www.reddit.com/r/BMWi3/comme..._this_serious/

Dealership associations will only be okay with major software updates if they can get paid for the update. It doesn't create a condition for car companies to want to improve the cars they've already sold through OTA.

It's a guy posting about a trip to the dealer to get an update and wondering why no OTA. Then guessing why, but completely wrong about it. Sure sometimes you're asked to go in for an update, that's in recall situations (I had that too in my C63 BS with DRL issue), but it's hardly the norm.

You do realize that most car manufactures are already doing OTA updates to various systems right? People just don't know about it until something goes wrong, like this fun one last year:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/7/118...are-update-bug

[asd913]

Originally posted by rage2's article

Although customers may think the Delphi systems are a great idea, it's doubtful that dealerships will feel the same way. These wireless systems could do away with the need for regularly scheduled infotainment and system updates, keeping a big chunk of change from dealer service departments.

Your own article says dealers are not going to want OTA if it means the cars don't come in for service.

The lexus fiasco was better explained in this article:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...s-infotainment

from article
The data can be traffic flow information, weather, stocks, sports scores, gasoline prices, Amber and Silver alerts (missing or taken children and seniors), news items, and ski conditions. It can also be over the air (OTA) updates to the car’s infotainment system, meaning the radio, music player, phone connection, and navigation. It’s efficient to push the data over a one-way connection rather than cellular because lots of cars need the same information, and the car can filter out or ignore, say, the gas prices if that’s not one of the head-unit features.

I.E. OTA things that a customer would not need a dealer to service (and then charge the manufacturer).

My point is dealers are not going to allow manufactures to improve cars through OTA unless they can get paid for it somehow. If they are taken out of the loop for servicing a car, they will raise hell. If they are given some compensation, car manufacturers will have to weigh the cost of improving the existing vehicles they have already made vs just focusing including the features in the next year's car.