Explosion at Manchester Arena

[Sugarphreak]

...

[duaner]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I've always thought that Religion is the single scariest thing in the world in general. It was in the past and it probably will be in the future as well.

"Religion." You say that as though there is only one religion. Which religion(s) is(are) the "single scariest thing in the world"? And why?

[jabjab]

Originally posted by SportEL
^NRGie, do you disown all the commands of violence against Non-Muslims? If not, how come? The only way to move forward with peace is not to have a book that preaches hate and intolerance.

-->https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p.../violence.aspx


72 virgins are the in the Hadiths (Sayings and Deeds of Muhammad for those that don't know)

Narrated Al-Miqdam bin Ma'diykarib:
That the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said: "There are six things with Allah for the martyr. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood (he suffers), he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head - and its gems are better than the world and what is in it - he is married to seventy two wives along Al-Huril-'Ayn of Paradise, and he may intercede for seventy of his close relatives."

--> https://muflihun.com/tirmidhi/20/1663

Again, I fail to understand how a prophet that committed so many atrocities is a perfect human being Muslims are told to emulate. Please explain it. It's all in the Hadiths what Muhammad did.

Imams or Sheiks aren't mistranslating the text or making it up when it's taken straight from the Quran and Hadiths. I would say they need to push for reforming the religion, which is impossible if you are going to be charged with Blasphemy and it's accompanying punishment of fines, imprisonment or beheading. So what will it take?

SportsEL has a masters in religion, so whatever he says must be truth.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


5) Selective breeding / Passive population control measures

The only one of the above that doesn't involve a massive amount of death is option 5.

Isn't the government already doing that? CHEMTRAILS MANNNN!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Basically as it stands now, we are rapidly headed down the route of #3. The only one of the above that doesn't involve a massive amount of death is option 5.

I like door #6 please.

Robots take all the jobs, the 1%er make all the $, take all the resource and move to space, earth dwellings all became terrorists.


» Click image for larger version

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by duaner

"Religion." You say that as though there is only one religion. Which religion(s) is(are) the "single scariest thing in the world"? And why?

No, religion is simply a belief in a higher power or god, which applies to any of the religions (at least all the big ones I'm aware of). I think any religion, when taken to the extreme, forced on others, left with questionable/ambiguous material to interpret, or used in important decision making processes that affects anyone other than that individual is terrifying. You don't even have to look further than US politics to see this, let alone groups like ISIS. If you want to peacefully practice religion by yourself or with like-minded people and without harming or bothering anyone else, great.

Look at how much of the worlds most horrible conflicts, killings, terrorism, etc. is caused by religion of some kind, including extremism. I find beliefs like that very scary and they have been proven impossible to get rid of for as long as history can show.

I think a big part of it comes down to most religions being centered around what happens AFTER death. It's perfectly designed so that believers always have something to cling on to while at the same time making it impossible to get any proof of what they believe in. If I had to bet on one thing always existing for as long as humans exist, it would be religion of some kind.

[tonytiger55]

Muslims is a broad term there are different sects.…Muslims integrating is I guess is a even broader term.
I would not take a Muslim from Iran in the same league of someone from Pakistan.
The idea that they integrate is questionable . Take a look at Bradford, Luton, or East London or perhaps work with a few Muslims. There is a difference.

Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews etc all get on. Its that group (Muslims) that sometimes may not. Ask most liberal Sikh, Hindus who they can they can marry… they can bring home anyone. Just not a Muslim..
At university I distinctly remember everyone mixing, but then you had the Muslims. Sure you would get the odd one who did. We are talking in a general sense.
A few of my best friends (Muslims) started hanging out with us in the second and third year as they were fed up with hanging with the solo group of Muslims who would not mix. Even they gave a insight of the troubles they were having within their own community of people, parents etc refusing to integrate in any way or form (music, grocery shopping, going out, tv etc).

A one point I even entered a discussion with Muslims about the book the Satanic verses. I was threatened, accused of insulting them etc. It was only when I was at a sheesha bar in the Arab district in London (Edgeware Road) that I was invited by a friendly Muslim Scholar to sit down. I asked questions about the book and I was given a good insight and a good answer. But that is few and far between.

I have worked with Muslims, during their holy festival of fasting. I innocently asked if they wanted water, I was accused of insulting them. People would manipulate their religion for breaks, prayer etc when you can blatantly see it was bullshit.

These are not isolated incidents with myself. There has a been a lot of people with similar experiences.
It seems like there is one rule for them and another for everyone else. The South Park episode of the different faiths sums it up.

It leads to a quote from Animal Farm… Some Animals are more equal than others.

The argument of London having a Muslim mayor is a sign of integration is nonsense. One needs to look at the contact of the London mayor election. You had a conservative government that has done some very bad austerity cuts. Their candidate was Zack Goldsmith. Sadiqu Khan was a Labor party candidate. His dad was a bus driver. He is a ethnic minority. London is a multicultural city. People did not vote for Sadiq because he was a Muslim. Its because people can identify with him (not his religion).

If I or anyone else can’t discuss this without being called a racists etc. People stay silent and then this line of thought/discussion goes underground. This is where the right wing extremists and the neo liberals come to polarize this and bigotry comes in. This is what you don’t want.

This is not a Anit Muslim Post. Whilst we sit here on beyond and have this wankfest of how Muslims are integrated, rub each others dick in unison under the umbrella of multiculturalism . I would like to make the point… are Muslims integrated..?(a general sense), some would say yes. Are they as integrated as other minorities? I cant speak for Canada much. But in the UK..I would say no they are not. Until I can or any other non Muslim can openly and constructively debate and call nonsense on the majority of them without being threatened, called a racists, do a drawing for satire on their faith and prophet. ..I can argue they are not integrated.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner

"Religion." You say that as though there is only one religion. Which religion(s) is(are) the "single scariest thing in the world"? And why?

Uh duh.

Religionists believe in an invisible man and his holy book. A book that you claim is the invisible man's sacred and infallible word, yet there are many examples throughout history in which the bible books have not only been altered to suit the king at the time, but whole books removed for that and other reasons.

Further to that, religionists try to force this nonsense on others and subdue human rights. The most despicable example of such is again, wanting to force others to needlessly suffer even though they're begging to die.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

Look at how much of the worlds most horrible conflicts, killings, terrorism, etc. is caused by religion of some kind, including extremism. I find beliefs like that very scary and they have been proven impossible to get rid of for as long as history can show.

That is what I thought. Let's look at what history actually shows us; let's look at facts:

"In fact, religious elements played no role at all in 14 (40%) of the 35 armed conflicts in the research, and only five (14%) had religious elements as their main cause, the report showed. All of the wars had multiple causes, and the much more common motivation was opposition to a government, or to the economic, ideological, political or social systems of a state, which was named as a main factor in nearly two thirds of the cases studied.

The Encyclopedia of Wars, an extensive study published in 2008, chronicles 1,763 wars throughout human history. It names just 123 as ‘religious in nature’ – a little under 7%.

....

Countries with the highest levels of atheism – mainly communist or former communist states like Russia and the Czech Republic – were not necessarily the most peaceful. North Korea, which has one of the lowest rates of people practising religion, was one of ten ‘least peaceful’ countries in world last year, according to the report."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_6156878.html

The argument can easily be made that atheism is what is behind Communism, and tens upon tens of millions have been killed by Communist regimes, many of which were in the attempt to stamp out religion.


"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.

Most modern wars, including the Napoleonic Campaign, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, World War I, the Russia Revolution, World War II, and the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam, were not religious in nature or cause. While religious groups have been specifically targeted (most notably in World War II), to claim that religion was the cause is to blame the victim and to misunderstand the perpetrators’ motives, which were nationalistic and ethnic, not religious.

Similarly, the vast numbers of genocides (those killed in ethic cleanses, purges, etc. that are not connected to a declared war) are not based on religion. It’s estimated that over 160 million civilians were killed in genocides in the 20th century alone, with nearly 100 million killed by the Communist states of USSR and China."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-...b_1400766.html

It really seems that a religious world is safer than a non-religious one.

[Gestalt]

Creative religious interpretation is an excuse, not a cause.

[rx7boi]

I like how all of you have said "I'm done with you" to other posters at some point on Beyond and now you're back at it again

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner

That is what I thought. Let's look at what history actually shows us; let's look at facts:
.

Don't even bother with Duaner.

He's a typical Christian apologist that fundamentaly believes that suffering is a good thing, and to a certain degree, he's right. That is, you wouldn't know pleasure without knowing pain. It's duality, it's the Yin Yang, it's required to be conscious.

The difference in all of that, is the the wisdom to know the difference between needed pain, and needless pain. Heck, that's what Jesus was all about. That stoner knew the difference.

Beat that Duaner

[duaner]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Don't even bother with Duaner.

He's a typical Christian apologist that fundamentaly believes that suffering is a good thing, and to a certain degree, he's right. That is, you wouldn't know pleasure without knowing pain. It's duality, it's the Yin Yang, it's required to be conscious.

The difference in all of that, is the the wisdom to know the difference between needed pain, and needless pain. Heck, that's what Jesus was all about. That stoner knew the difference.

Beat that Duaner

Beat what, your red herrings?

Is it the facts that are giving you trouble? A little too inconvenient, are they?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner

Beat what, your red herrings?

Is it the facts that are giving you trouble? A little too inconvenient, are they?

Are you sure you really want to go there?

[SportEL]

Originally posted by NRGie


The imams are mistranlating/ misinterpreting it the same way you are.

The verse you quoted mentions 72 virgins but doesn't explicitly say you get 72 virgins for killing other people.

in the link you posted this verse was under 'virtues of jihad'

Jihad doesn't mean go to war and kill a bunch of non-believers or whatever. It's meant in reference to overcoming a difficult task or to push oneself for spiritual enlightenment.

Of course I don't encourage violence against anyone, be it Muslim or non-muslims. In fact religion doesn't even pop up in my mind when interacting with people.

I usually don't get involved in internet debates about religion but I wanted you to know that not all Muslims are crazy radicals. From your previous posts in this thread it seemed like you had a crazy hard-on against Muslims and that's fine, because this is Canada and everyone is free to have an opinion and participate in a conversation.

Fyi, we've been in Canada for 24 years now and our numbers have grown drastically and if anything my family has become more Canadian, as opposed to how you see it.

My nieces and nephews now wake up to Christmas gifts and my brothers set up Christmas trees in their homes. We do up our houses for Halloween, and are pretty much normal, I guess?

The verse about the virgins actually does say it. " There are six things for the Martyr...". This martyrdom is described many other times in the Quran and Hadiths. Here's another:

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."


Please explain where the misinterpretation is. This isn't about radical , as there is no such thing. Islam is Islam. It's clear as day when the commands are there, and the stories of what Muhammad did are there, so please explain this. There are those that strive hard and fight with their lives and Allah prefers those in grade and promises them a greater reward over the other believers who sit. The 'moderates' don't take the same fight, but the same idea is there that they support the sayings in the Quran and what Muhammad did against non-Muslims.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "


Do you not understand that when people identify as Muslim, and when non-Muslims have seen the Quran and Hadiths and then question how Muslims can sit up there and say, no we're peaceful, that is the most ironic when the Quran is concerned more about kafirs and it's intolerance against them versus how a Muslim should be praying. 61% of the Quran talks horribly about kaffirs. It's ironic when the Hadiths do talk about jihad as the inner struggle but that is only 3% of the time, while 97% of the time it is jihad as war against kafirs/infidels.

So why are we so many today accepting the ideology of Islam and its Quran and Hadiths while today we reject Hitler, his Mein Kampf and Nazis?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by SportEL
[B Islam is Islam. It's clear as day when the commands are there/ snip/ [/B]

So is the Western's worlds invisible man:

Deuteronomy 17:

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatc...kill-infidels/

[SportEL]

Originally posted by Seth1968


So is the Western's worlds invisible man:



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatc...kill-infidels/

Christianity has reformed with the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ. The difference is Christians today disavows violence while Islam today celebrates it. I don't see any attempts of reform in Islam.

Christians have a model character in Jesus Christ. Muslims have Muhammad that murdered, tortured, raped, enslaved, and had a child bride that Muslims are told to emulate.

--->https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...-muhammad.aspx

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by SportEL
[B]

Christianity has reformed with the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ. /B]

How about we end ALL superstitious thought right here, and start something akin to rational thought?

[NRGie]

Ayyy I feel like your grasping at straws SportEL. The Global Center for Pluralism (which is supposed to study and advance a peaceful society) was an initiative of the Shia Ismailis. What would you say this is an example of?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...service=mobile

There are good and bad in all religions. I can knit pick and pull up biased websites that would denounce Christianity but I just don't feel like it.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by NRGie
Ayyy I feel like your grasping at straws SportEL. The Global Center for Pluralism (which is supposed to study and advance a peaceful society) was an initiative of the Shia Ismailis. What would you say this is an example of?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...service=mobile

There are good and bad in all religions. I can knit pick and pull up biased websites that would denounce Christianity but I just don't feel like it.

What am I grasping at straws about? You have not provided one example of misinterpretation. You are offering no argument. Pick one verse from the Quran and explain misinterpretation. Like this one:

Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures. (Quran 98:6)

How can there not be a problem with Islam and Violence? 109 calls for violence against infidels. Are you saying that the Quran is wrong and not the words from Allah? Are you seriously implying that non-Muslims should disregard the Facts? The main thing that Muslims (Sunnis/Shias) can agree is that Kafirs are inferior. In the western world, everyone is seen as equal.
--->https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p.../violence.aspx

There will not be peace until the verses are striked out or abrogated. Muhammed's earlier life was more about peace and tolerance.
He preached the religion of Islam for 13 years in Mecca and only gained 150 followers. He then moved to Medina where he became a politician and warrior. After 10 years of violence he became ruler of all Arabia without a single enemy left standing. He was involved in an event of violence every 6 weeks for the last 9 years of his life. So now with his successors, why is there not a move to peace and updating with the times, and updating the Quran?

What is the main thing you can say against Christianity? Just name the main one. I like to hear the argument and not just empty words.

By the way, do you support Sharia Law?