Engineers breaking into ER/IBD - 2017 Perspective

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by austic
So what sort of compensation do these positions make for a 110 hour work week?

I'm not sure the $/hr would compare, as O&G is usually a pretty relaxed environment for the amount you get paid. But it does appear a lot of those looking to change can't see themselves working in engineering for O&G for their whole career. And what's the point if you're miserable all the time?

Anyone who is laid off should start a garage hedge fund

[Buster]

Originally posted by austic
So what sort of compensation do these positions make for a 110 hour work week?

The world of most "processional" type careers is setup thusly: education -> associate-ship of some kind -> partner of some kid.

The middle part is the grind, where you are under-compensated for the hours and stress. This is relative to the partners, but not always relative to the population as a whole. The "grind" usually happens through your 20's and early 30's.

Law works this way explicitly. Accounting does as well, more or less

Banking is similar, where you might be an associated for a few years before getting to jump into a director/VP type role. You're still doing the grind, but at a higher level.

Doctor's have residency. Hockey players have the AHL.

etc.

the problem is that the brass ring (say and MD or partner at a bank) suffers from the ratio problem. How many guys get to the mult-million bonus years after grinding, vs how many burn out, or flip over to industry, etc.

As long as you are happy being grist for the mill during your "sleep under the desk" phase, and understand what the cost is, then fine.

The problem is that the big compensation in most of these environments is a protected club, and they hang that carrot to get guys to work their butts off.

[killramos]

I think I am more unique in the sense that I actually want to do the work and the compensation doesn't actually concern me at this point ( you don't have to believe me ).

I get paid well to put up with a job i dislike doing in a completely toxic environment 40 hours a week right now, as far as I'm concerned getting paid well to do something I find interesting and fulfilling for 100 hours a week sounds pretty comparable. Although grass is always greener does apply in all situations.

Add in that I think the likelihood of my job lasting through the summer is slim to none I see no real downside to trying ER/IBD.

I actually WANT to work which is the most obscene part of all this.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by killramos


I actually WANT to work which is the most obscene part of all this.

#thingsmillenialssay

[killramos]

[blitz]

I don't mean to be a dick, but have you ever worked really hard before? Like really, really hard?

[killramos]

Yup, have you?

I hesitated to even respond because what kind of stupid question is that? What answer were you expecting?

[riander5]

Maybe you would have said.. no im a special snowflake

[you&me]

Originally posted by killramos
Yup, have you?

I hesitated to even respond because what kind of stupid question is that? What answer were you expecting?

Do you know anyone that's been in an entry level role in IB? Reading some of the bitch-fest threads on WSO don't quite paint the whole picture

I think the point was, there's "working hard" in O&G in Calgary over the last ~10 years, and then there's working hard doing the grunt work during earnings season at a 'Bank.

[killramos]

Originally posted by you&me


Do you know anyone that's been in an entry level role in IB?

I do know a couple analysts at some of the bigger shops in town. None of them engineers, I am interested in an engineering perspective on the transition.

Gotto start somewhere.

I have absolutely no misconceptions on what is involved.

[realazy]

The whole getting bored at work thing is real. I'm at a producer too. With activity levels so low, people are struggling to stay occupied. People want to work at work, to feel like they are being productive and learning.There's only so much internet you can browse.

[you&me]

Originally posted by killramos


I do know a couple analysts at some of the bigger shops in town. None of them engineers, I am interested in an engineering perspective on the transition.

Gotto start somewhere.

I have absolutely no misconceptions on what is involved.

You're right. As long as you're going in with eyes wide open. And as long as you're being honest with yourself about how hard you really (actually, truly) worked in O&G...

No offense, but your posts sort-of came off as: "I'm bored with work, so I think I might try something new... How about i-banking? I work hard now, so I can work hard there"

As I said in an earlier post and it's been repeated since, network the shit out of your contacts. Banking is a very small and tight-knit sector in Calgary so swallow some pride, ask people you know to make introductions, etc. From what I hear, there is no shortage of people looking to do the exact same as you currently and relationships more than anything will make or break your transition. It's never too early to start (yesterday would be better than today). It would suck to go through the MBA and then have to change course again because you can't find a gig with a bank.

Again, GL.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by blitz
I don't mean to be a dick, but have you ever worked really hard before? Like really, really hard?

This is an interesting question. I haven't had a job where my output was measured by volume since my part time work back in University days. Ever since then I've been judged on quality of ideas and a bunch of "soft skills", none of which is really fairly called "working hard".

I have a buddy who is in drafting, and when his company has deadlines, he works eighty hour weeks to meet deadlines. That's working hard.

[The BMW Guy]

Originally posted by you&me
I think the point was, there's "working hard" in O&G in Calgary over the last ~10 years, and then there's working hard doing the grunt work during earnings season at a 'Bank.

Agreed. They seem to be worlds apart. I compare the stress/time commitment as similar to pulling all-nighters for a final exam. Except every day is a final exam. I have heard stories of consistently staying up until 2am, getting up at 6:00am and doing it all over for weeks on end. Of course, this could just be isolated to my small sample size of people I know and they could be playing it up more than what actually happens.

Either way, if you truly have the drive to succeed in that world then you'll have the drive to figure out how to get into that world too. Networking is gold.

[blitz]

Originally posted by killramos
Yup, have you?

I hesitated to even respond because what kind of stupid question is that? What answer were you expecting?

Well, you have 4 years experience at what sounds like a pretty low expectation/unrewarding job. It also sounds like you've spent most of that job with low levels of direct responsibility.

I worked 60hrs/week for about 3 years in a production roll, it got to me after a while. I personally would go nuts doing 80+ hours a week.

There's a huge difference between talking about 100+ hour week and actually having experience doing it for an extended amount of time.

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

This is an interesting question. I haven't had a job where my output was measured by volume since my part time work back in University days. Ever since then I've been judged on quality of ideas and a bunch of "soft skills", none of which is really fairly called "working hard". .

Same situation. I'm busy, but not in a way that requires crazy hours.

[R154]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy


Agreed. They seem to be worlds apart. I compare the stress/time commitment as similar to pulling all-nighters for a final exam. Except every day is a final exam. I have heard stories of consistently staying up until 2am, getting up at 6:00am and doing it all over for weeks on end. Of course, this could just be isolated to my small sample size of people I know and they could be playing it up more than what actually happens.

Either way, if you truly have the drive to succeed in that world then you'll have the drive to figure out how to get into that world too. Networking is gold.

I mean this entirely genuinely. What exactly is the work you are doing that is 6am to 2am for weeks on end?

I like to think I work hard and work long hours when I have more than 2 projects on the go... But recently I havent had as much to do as I would like.

Certainly not 120 hours a week even when I am balls out running.

[Buster]

banking associates are basically the only remaining slave labour.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

This is an interesting question. I haven't had a job where my output was measured by volume since my part time work back in University days. Ever since then I've been judged on quality of ideas and a bunch of "soft skills", none of which is really fairly called "working hard".

This post struck a nerve with me a little bit, but ExtraSlow, please correct me if I am wrong because I don't know you or ever met you.

I've worked with a lot of people who have great ideas, pretty knowledgeable, but lacks the skills to execute, or execute promptly. So in engineering as an example, I believe it's equally important to execute in a timely manner as it is to present quality ideas. I'm sure it's more apparent in the financial/business sector, but there is many aspects of the engineering role measured by volume and how quick you execute all your tasks/projects. And this range/sense of urgency between people is incredibly big, as in some people are the slowest people ever and some people are awesome and just gets things done.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by Disoblige

This post struck a nerve with me a little bit, but ExtraSlow, please correct me if I am wrong because I don't know you or ever met you.

I've worked with a lot of people who have great ideas, pretty knowledgeable, but lacks the skills to execute, or execute promptly. So in engineering as an example, I believe it's equally important to execute in a timely manner as it is to present quality ideas. I'm sure it's more apparent in the financial/business sector, but there is many aspects of the engineering role measured by volume and how quick you execute all your tasks/projects. And this range/sense of urgency between people is incredibly big, as in some people are the slowest people ever and some people are awesome and just gets things done.

Totally agree, if all you have is "great ideas" and you can't execute, you aren't particularly useful in most organizations. I can't speak to anyone else, but I've always gotten more recognition/bonus/promotion from my "soft skills" like ideas and communication rather than any amount of grinding out technical work. That's not to say I haven't had to do a certain amount of grinding in every one of my positions, because I have.

No offense taken.

[holden]

I have a cousin in IBanking. Started off at TD in Toronto, now works at Barclays in New York. I stayed at his condo in the Financial District during a visit to TO. I remember he would leave before I got up in the morning (let's assume he starts at 7-8pm). He would get home around 8-9pm (this would include eating out since it's all expensed). He would work some more on his laptop for 2-3 hours. He would normally work Saturdays and occasionally Sundays.

I think he made $110K base out of university, along with the usual big bonuses typical in that industry. I'm sure he makes much more now, but I can't imagine working those hours.