$900 Bitcoin

[powerslave]

Good luck with that request - all you'll get will be "wake up sheeple, critical thinking, spoonfed, think for yourself" blah blah blah.

[triplep]

Originally posted by Modelexis

Bitcoin does not operate in this manner.

So how does it operate? People go online and "mine" bitcoins and from nothing comes something? So your saying that some random person did not create bitcoins? Nor the fact that they had issues with them early on and people could make an unlimited amount of coins themselves?


This would be the equivalent of making a beyond$. For each post made, a member gets .0001 cent of a beyond$. These dollars can be used to purchase shit like custom colored font etc, and then it would also most likely have value, because someone one would want to buy your beyond$. So what is the difference between a bitcoin and a beyond$?

[Chandler_Racing]

Use to work in this industry.

The part I don't understand is how they're allowed to create a virtual currency with a e-money license.

Recall that being a big no-no but could have been mistaken...

[xNinjai23]

Originally posted by triplep



So how does it operate? People go online and "mine" bitcoins and from nothing comes something? So your saying that some random person did not create bitcoins? Nor the fact that they had issues with them early on and people could make an unlimited amount of coins themselves?


This would be the equivalent of making a beyond$. For each post made, a member gets .0001 cent of a beyond$. These dollars can be used to purchase shit like custom colored font etc, and then it would also most likely have value, because someone one would want to buy your beyond$. So what is the difference between a bitcoin and a beyond$?

Correct me if im wrong, but the bitcoin has a limit of 21 million that can ever be generated, the algorithm or what not behind it of how it works as a peer to peer currency prevents the bitcoin from counterfeiting or something, thats the appealing aspect of it, the limit is 21 million and thats it, the complexed algorithm and how it works stops people from you say
"make unlimited supply for themselves"

Maybe its possible but it probably require some amazing skills in programming and an deep understanding of exactly how it works

[eatrice]

Originally posted by xNinjai23



Correct me if im wrong, but the bitcoin has a limit of 21 million that can ever be generated, the algorithm or what not behind it of how it works as a peer to peer currency prevents the bitcoin from counterfeiting or something, thats the appealing aspect of it, the limit is 21 million and thats it, the complexed algorithm and how it works stops people from you say
"make unlimited supply for themselves"

Maybe its possible but it probably require some amazing skills in programming and an deep understanding of exactly how it works

Wiki says 12 million in existence. That makes more sense now. But then again, how hard could it be for someone to change that algorithm? From what you said, it sounds pretty easy to do if you are the makers of this. Would it even violate any law?

[ZenOps]

The way I understand it is that the bitcoins become exponentially hard to mine as time goes on.

The first bitcoin might have taken 1 second to mine, the 1000th took a minute, the 1,000,000th coin took a day, etc.

It exactly the same as real mining, where the first nickel ever made was simply scraped from the surface of the earth (and relatively inexpensive) A nickel produced in 2013 probably came from 7,800 feet under the ground at exponentially more cost than the first one.

In such a way is that fair? Not really, as those in geographically cold climates aren't really wasting energy (especially if you use electricity for heating) by trying to mine bitcoins.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Use to work in this industry.

The part I don't understand is how they're allowed to create a virtual currency with a e-money license.

Recall that being a big no-no but could have been mistaken...

because as far as I know governments don't yet consider bitcoin a currency much like in the way gold in world of warcraft is not considered a real currency but many people use it as such. Once governments get their hands on it and start regulating it, it could really cause a shit storm

[BigMass]

problem with bitcoin is that nobody needs it. People need US dollars, Canadian dollars etc. Bitcoin is something gamblers use to speculate and CAN be used as a form of currency. But it's pretty useless as a currency now because it doesn't have a consistant enough value. Nobody that isn't just a media whore is going to sell you their house for $900 bitcoin when tomorrow it could be $10 bitcoin. That's a terrible characteristic of a currency.

Another problem is that, while bitcoin may be limited, crypto currencies are not. It's just a popularity contest. What if Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber come out tomorrow with their own crypto currencies that function just like bitcoin? Why use Bitcoin when you can use Beibercoin? Really you can have 1000000000000 different virtual currencies. One week bitcoin might be the latest fad, the next week Gagabux might be the next fad. There is NO REASON that bitcoin would hold any value because it's %100 arbitrary and based on NOTHING but a greater fool mentality. People that compare it to government fiat or gold etc have absolutely no clue about money and currency

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by eatrice
Wiki says 12 million in existence. That makes more sense now. But then again, how hard could it be for someone to change that algorithm? From what you said, it sounds pretty easy to do if you are the makers of this. Would it even violate any law?

I don't know the answer to the question of whether the algorithm can be manipulated but if it could be so easily manipulated someone would have done that by now.

Again, you are terrified that it might turn out like the Canadian dollar, which I think is fine but you should recognize that and not judge it so harshly.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by BigMass
problem with bitcoin is that nobody needs it. People need US dollars, Canadian dollars etc. Bitcoin is something gamblers use to speculate and CAN be used as a form of currency. But it's pretty useless as a currency now because it doesn't have a consistant enough value. Nobody that isn't just a media whore is going to sell you their house for $900 bitcoin when tomorrow it could be $10 bitcoin. That's a terrible characteristic of a currency.

It sounds like you're judging a currency in its infancy without recognizing that the future is unknown.
Do we really need CAD? couldn't we all just adopt USD?

It may be somewhat useless now as a currency, but a lot of currencies are useless as a currency when they're first introduced into a market with a currency monopoly.

I don't really understand the frustration people have talking about bitcoin. If you think it's a terrible idea you just have to avoid them and keep your money in CAD or whatever you use.

full disclosure, I don't own any bitcoins so I'm not speaking from any self-interest position.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis


It sounds like you're judging a currency in its infancy without recognizing that the future is unknown.
Do we really need CAD? couldn't we all just adopt USD?

It may be somewhat useless now as a currency, but a lot of currencies are useless as a currency when they're first introduced into a market with a currency monopoly.

currencies were introduced, they were instantly backed by gold, they had intrinsic value. People knew what they could get for their currency. Unless you have something like the Continental or Zimbabwe money that's backed by nothing and completely worthless. Now currency is not backed by gold but it's backed by guns and the initiation of force. You NEED Canadian money. Why? Because if you don't pay your taxes, people with guns will come to your house and lock you up. It's the same for any governmental currency. That's what gives it value. You need those currencies. You do not need, and never will need, bitcoin. Somehow the technocratic pseudointellectual wing of anarchists and libertarians decided that they found their new messiah and that bitcoin is now their "new gold". No it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, gambling mechanism and a greater fool device.

[eatrice]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I don't know the answer to the question of whether the algorithm can be manipulated but if it could be so easily manipulated someone would have done that by now.

Again, you are terrified that it might turn out like the Canadian dollar, which I think is fine but you should recognize that and not judge it so harshly.

How do you know someone isn't doing that right now? They aren't going to hyperinflate the currency in a matter of 5 minutes. They can't spend it that fast.

I'm not saying its going to be like the CAD?? Don't know how you interpreted that.

What I'm saying is that bitcoin can have the potential to be the perfect scam. Is there a possibility that someone can just code or "mine" more? Yes. We don't even know who made this thing. So if that person does, can they get away with it? Yes. The US already said they are not regulating it, so who is? Nobody.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by BigMass
currencies were introduced, they were instantly backed by gold, they had intrinsic value. People knew what they could get for their currency. Unless you have something like the Continental or Zimbabwe money that's backed by nothing and completely worthless. Now currency is not backed by gold but it's backed by guns and the initiation of force. You NEED Canadian money. Why? Because if you don't pay your taxes, people with guns will come to your house and lock you up. It's the same for any governmental currency. That's what gives it value. You need those currencies. You do not need, and never will need, bitcoin. Somehow the technocratic pseudointellectual wing of anarchists and libertarians decided that they found their new messiah and that bitcoin is now their "new gold". No it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, gambling mechanism and a greater fool device.

I think that's all true for the most part, but I disagree that there is no need and will be no need in the future for an alternate currency that is able to side step the monopoly money.

One situation might be if you want to leave the country and the govt puts a maximum amount of currency you can leave the country with you may want a way to transfer your wealth out of the country. Bitcoin might be one way to do this easily.
Might not be a valid example but just to illustrate that there may be a clever use for it.

[ZenOps]

The argument is, that Bitcoin is based on something of value.

Computing power, access to, and mastery of.

You need to prove that you have the infrastructure to mine a bitcoin. Canadian dollars are based on nickel, US dollars are based on copper, Bitcoin is based on computing power.

Its arguable that some of the most important discoveries of the future will be based on pure computing power. Cure for cancer, search for aliens, physics models for cold fusion, etc..

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I think that's all true for the most part, but I disagree that there is no need and will be no need in the future for an alternate currency that is able to side step the monopoly money.

One situation might be if you want to leave the country and the govt puts a maximum amount of currency you can leave the country with you may want a way to transfer your wealth out of the country. Bitcoin might be one way to do this easily.
Might not be a valid example but just to illustrate that there may be a clever use for it.

I agree and I understand the value in a crypto currency and I understand how they work. The problem I have is there is no limit on how many different crypto currencies there can be. Sure bitcoin is first to market but what's stopping Apple, Google or a major bank from creating their own crypto currency and possibly integrating it on a more convenient personal level. What if ING created a crypto currency and let people use their online accounts to buy and sell them from anywhere in the world to anonymous wallets. Or Amazon let you purchase things from their website only using amazon crypto currency. Heck if that were the case that would have more use than bitcoin does currently in terms of buying something. A bank crypto currency might make it easier to convert it to another nation's fiat a lot easier than having to go through a bitcoin exchange. Again... crypto currency? sure.. but.. why bitcoin? If the only answer is "just because it's what's currently popular and "in fad" Then I just don't see reason to buy and hold it as an "investment" like people think they're doing now and then posting on internet forums convincing people how they should buy bitcoin now because its going up up up and it'll hit a million dollars soon. Sure maybe it'll hit a million, maybe it'll hit 1 cent again. You just can't predict human trends and collective fads like that.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The argument is, that Bitcoin is based on something of value.

Computing power, access to, and mastery of.

You need to prove that you have the infrastructure to mine a bitcoin. Canadian dollars are based on nickel, US dollars are based on copper, Bitcoin is based on computing power.

Its arguable that some of the most important discoveries of the future will be based on pure computing power. Cure for cancer, search for aliens, physics models for cold fusion, etc..

computing power / energy has no value in the sense that you describe it. The value is what you do with it. Information has value. The cure for cancer will come from information not from electrons traveling through a circuit.

Now you're right, bitcoin has value. Currently around $600... tomorrow maybe $10, or maybe $1000. Personally that's not something I'd use or hold as a currency, and I have really bad luck at gambling... so that's the only reason why I'm out.

[Modelexis]

I think you could have made that argument about tcp/ip packets or search engines back in the day when the internet started.

You might not have bought stocks in google cause you didn't think one single engine could maintain a majority use status in the market.
History has proven that even though there is major diversity, people tend to stick to popular trends and sometimes they become quite loyal to those trends to the point that one search engine can easily maintain a majority market hold.

Not that bitcoin is at all comparable to a search engine company but just to use a broad example.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis
I think you could have made that argument about tcp/ip packets or search engines back in the day when the internet started.

You might not have bought stocks in google cause you didn't think one single engine could maintain a majority use status in the market.
History has proven that even though there is major diversity, people tend to stick to popular trends and sometimes they become quite loyal to those trends to the point that one search engine can easily maintain a majority market hold.

but that's making my point. Is bitcoin = google? no, because nobody was using google when the internet was getting going. People used webcrawler, lycos and all that junk. What if bitcoin is webcrawler and the crypto currency equivalent of google hasn't even started yet?

[Modelexis]

I think the case could be made more strongly for bitcoin since so much money is already invested in the currency. People have personal stakes in the success of bitcoin.
Maybe if altavista became popular by people putting their savings in the company they could have maintained a major presence in the industry.

It could be one of those 'first to market wins' type of situations, like the foreman grill.

Bitcoin is very risky though, no denying that.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by eatrice


How do you know someone isn't doing that right now? They aren't going to hyperinflate the currency in a matter of 5 minutes. They can't spend it that fast.

I'm not saying its going to be like the CAD?? Don't know how you interpreted that.

What I'm saying is that bitcoin can have the potential to be the perfect scam. Is there a possibility that someone can just code or "mine" more? Yes. We don't even know who made this thing. So if that person does, can they get away with it? Yes. The US already said they are not regulating it, so who is? Nobody.

You can't "code more bitcoins". Every transaction (including mining) is public and sent to what is called as the "blockchain". Every miner has a copy of the entire blockchain, so you can't randomly say you have 10 bitcoins because there is no history of it in the blockchain. That is why it is a "p2p currency".