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    Default debate over Chinese cultural norms and public etiquette

    The image also drew responses from some people, who identified themselves as being Chinese, writing that the woman and child were likely from mainland China, where they said urinating or defecating in public is acceptable behaviour.




    Image of child urinating in mall sparks heated debate

    Photo draws social media comments, many racist, about Chinese cultural norms

    BY THANDI FLETCHER, THE PROVINCE SEPTEMBER 1, 2013 9:59 AM

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    STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



    A woman is photographed helping a child pee into a waste bin at a Richmond mall, sparking a firestorm of comment online.
    Photograph by: DonMunnu/Twitter , Postmedia News
    A photo that has gone viral online of a young boy urinating into a garbage bin at a Richmond shopping mall while a woman holds him is sparking a fierce debate on social media websites over Chinese cultural norms and public etiquette.

    The image, which appears to show a woman helping a child stand on the ledge of a garbage bin with his pants around his knees while he urinates, is making the rounds on Twitter and Reddit.

    "#why would you let your child pee in the mall bins? They have toilets," wrote Twitter user DonMunnu.

    Both the woman and child appear to be Asian, and the image has sparked a slew of racist comments online.

    The image also drew responses from some people, who identified themselves as being Chinese, writing that the woman and child were likely from mainland China, where they said urinating or defecating in public is acceptable behaviour.

    "They are definitely from mainland China," wrote one Reddit user using the handle trig14. "As a Canadian with Chinese background. .. I don't give a s---if they did this in their own country but this is not China."

    Since the photo went viral, one person has come forward claiming that the woman is their aunt and the young boy their cousin, and that the incident has nothing to do with cultural norms.

    "It's amazing how people come to conclusions without knowing the full story," the individual wrote in an anonymous post on Reddit, who was using a temporary "throwaway" account to "protect their identities."

    "I think it's a shame that people put race and culture as the main reason for peoples' actions," the post continued.

    The author wrote that their aunt noticed that their cousin had started to wet his pants without warning. The bathroom was too far away to prevent a bigger mess, and to avoid having him soaked in urine, she had no option but to use a garbage bin.

    "After seeing this picture go viral with top comments being about race, I'm realizing first-hand how discussions on Reddit can sound so convincing yet can be so damaging to people," the author wrote.

    "Many of us have peed in public due to different circumstances and I don't see everyone making a huge deal about it."

    A spokeswoman for Richmond Centre, the mall where the incident happened, said the centre is looking into the matter and ways to prevent similar incidents happening again.

    "Our experience is that this type of behaviour isn't the societal norm," read the mall's statement.

    "Unfortunately this incident occurred so quickly that our team was only alerted after it took place."

    In the meantime, however, the image continues to be mocked on social media, which is unfortunate, said Winnie Hwo of the David Suzuki Foundation.

    "I'm shocked by that picture, but I'm actually more angry with the person who took that picture to turn this into a national joke rather than helping," said Hwo, who immigrated to Canada from Hong Kong more than 30 years ago.

    Instead of using the photo as an opportunity to "stir racial tension," Hwo said she wishes the individual who took the photo would have politely told the woman that urinating in public is not acceptable behaviour in Canada. "We need to accept that we live in a very diverse country," said Hwo. "When something is different, we stereotype, we generalize and then we don't accept and we resent. .. Until we change our attitude, we cannot live in a better society."

    Queenie Choo, CEO of SUCCESS, a social services agency focused on immigrant settlement in B.C., said she doesn't believe urinating in public is a cultural norm in mainland China.

    "When you go out to China and you ask people on the street if it's acceptable to urinate in a garbage bin, nine out of 10 people will say it's not a cultural thing," she said.

    Choo pointed out that in many areas in Vancouver, transient people who are not Asian also urinate in public but it doesn't result in the same public outrage.

    "People are drawing conclusions and I think that we've got to understand the situation behind it," she said. "There is always a story behind what we have seen in the picture."

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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 07-21-2019 at 01:48 PM.

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    I'm sorry but I just can't believe this...there is a person named "Queenie Choo?"

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    I have an aunt named Queenie. It's surprisingly a really common name for old Chinese ladies.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    I have a Chinese client names Queenie.

    Originally posted by Sugarphreak
    When I was in Chengdu in China I saw a woman letting her kid pee in a shallow puddle on the sidewalk which kind of made me do a big WTF... saw it again a few days later. After that I avoided walking through puddles.
    So before that incident you would routinely walk through puddles?

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    Pssh. Peeing in the fountain would be worse.



    It would help though to know what a bathroom is supposed to look like nowadays. Too many art deco urinals.





    Last edited by ZenOps; 09-01-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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    So embarrassed being a chinese.

    Chinese people don't like losing face, so may be do this to teach them.

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    How much shame is there in a very small child doing it? Kid isn't old enough to lose face. When you got to pee, you got to pee.

    Breastfeeding in public might offend just as many if not more. There you have the option to wait, noone needs breastmilk that badly that they cannot wait a half hour to get home or a private area.

    White peeps tend to champion the breastfeeding in public idea.
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    Is it also normal to not cover your mouth when you sneeze and cough if you are from mainland China? There is this old Asian guy in my neighborhood and he always openly sneezes, coughs and hocks loogies on the train during rush hour. People in the area know him and avoid getting on the same car.

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    Originally posted by ZenOps
    How much shame is there in a very small child doing it? Kid isn't old enough to lose face. When you got to pee, you got to pee.

    Breastfeeding in public might offend just as many if not more. There you have the option to wait, noone needs breastmilk that badly that they cannot wait a half hour to get home or a private area.

    White peeps tend to champion the breastfeeding in public idea.
    Not blaming the kid, it was the ignorant adults who should know better. And to compare urinating and breastfeeding? WTF, walking into a mall that smells like urine is a lot different than walking into a mall that smells like titties.

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    Originally posted by frizzlefry
    Is it also normal to not cover your mouth when you sneeze and cough if you are from mainland China? There is this old Asian guy in my neighborhood and he always openly sneezes, coughs and hocks loogies on the train during rush hour. People in the area know him and avoid getting on the same car.
    Why doesn't someone politely gesture to him to cover his mouth? If followed by a friendly smile, it shouldn't offend him. Avoiding him doesn't do anything to solve the problem. I would almost suggest it's not his fault if he doesn't know any better.

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    Originally posted by rage2
    I have an aunt named Queenie. It's surprisingly a really common name for old Chinese ladies.
    I don't think it's limited to old Chinese ladies. I know a Queenie and she's not old.

    Back on topic... Yeah, that's messed up but who am I to judge? Filipinos piss on walls everywhere.

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    mainlanders... the worst part, unlike the western world... the more money you have, the less civil you need to be.

    well for many in the western world, knowing you have a leg up, opportunities and advantages often develops a sence of humility...

    whereas with rig pigs and mainlanders, the more money you have, the more you can walk over people and do what you want, when you want.
    Last edited by r3ccOs; 09-01-2013 at 04:38 PM.

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    Originally posted by lilmira
    Not blaming the kid, it was the ignorant adults who should know better. And to compare urinating and breastfeeding? WTF, walking into a mall that smells like urine is a lot different than walking into a mall that smells like titties.
    Some women find it more offensive than men. Women also tend to be offended at haggling for lower car prices.
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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 07-21-2019 at 01:49 PM.

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    They try and defend the situation by suggesting that many other people pee in public, they do, but nobody goes as far as taking a piss in the trash can at the mall unless they are deliberately trying to elicit attention.

    Nonetheless, it is an unfortunate situation and I suppose the only way she could have responded was by trying to get to the nearest exit and if the kid pees before she makes it then she tried her best.

    Besides, regardless of race if someone caught a picture like that of anyone white or other and posted it on reddit I am positive it would have got lots of attention, the racists just wouldn't have had their confirmation bias.

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    This is very common in mainland China, I was there a few months ago and I saw this a lot, also saw a few 10-12 year olds dropping a duce on the side of the street, not on the main streets though, these were very clean. I think I remember reading someplace that new people to Canada get a pamphlet telling them things like urinating in public is not acceptable.

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    Originally posted by Sugarphreak


    I usually didn't give it much thought, there was a lot of shallow puddles on sidewalks there.

    Are you trying to poke holes in my story, lol?
    Just clarifying brother. But it's clear now: shallow puddles OK, piss puddles not so much.

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    I know a Queenie as well name is pretty common I knew a fobbish chick in junior high named Pey Fong.

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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 07-21-2019 at 01:49 PM.

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