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The Official Turkish GP 2009 thread - Click HERE for Original Thread

buh_buh
Fri 05 June 2009
Friday Practice 1 01:00 - 02:30
Friday Practice 2 05:00 - 06:30

Sat 06 June 2009
Saturday Practice 02:00 - 03:00
Qualifying 05:00

Sun 07 June 2009
Race 06:00

The Race
Turkey made its debut on the Formula One calendar in 2005 with an all-new purpose-built circuit in Istanbul. The spectacular 5.378 kilometre track was designed by famed German architect Hermann Tilke, the man behind Sepang, Bahrain and Shanghai, and features 14 turns - eight lefts and six rights - with the cars reaching speeds of up to 330 km/h.

An unusual feature of the venue is that the lap runs anti-clockwise, making the Turkish Grand Prix one of only two races on the calendar to do so ( Brazil being the other). It possesses a wide variety of corners - including the notorious multi-apex Turn Eight - and while perhaps not as technical as, say, Shanghai, it definitely provides the drivers with real challenge.

The character of the circuit is further enhanced by plenty of gradients - the track is built on four different ground levels. There may be fewer obvious overtaking opportunities than at some other Tilke circuits - it doesn't feature the long straights followed by tight hairpins that characterise the likes of Sepang and Shanghai - but the potential for a driver under pressure to make a mistake here means no shortage of passing.

As you'd expect from a new venue, spectator facilities are impressive - organisers knew they had to rival the very high standards set by Bahrain and China. Seating capacity is around 130,000, with 25,000 of those in the main grandstand, and parking is available for 12,000 cars. Dominating the circuit's skyline are two seven-floor VIP towers at either end of the paddock.

Track Stats

Laps 58
Circuit length 5.338 km (3.317 mi)
Race length 309.396 km (192.250 mi)
Most wins (drivers) Felipe Massa (3)
Most wins (constructors) Ferrari (3)
Lap record: 1:24.770 (Juan Pablo Montoya, McLaren, 2005)

2008 Results

Pole position
Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:27.617

Podium
1. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1h 26m 49.451s (213.808 km/h)
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes +3.779s
3. Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari +4.271s

Fastest lap
Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:26.506

Previous Winners

2008 Felipe Massa Ferrari
2007 Felipe Massa Ferrari
2006 Felipe Massa Ferrari
2005 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes

Weather
Thu 14:40 Brightening skies and rising temperatures are predicted this weekend as the FIA Formula 1 World Championship moves to Turkey for the seventh round of the 2009 season.

The expected mid-week dip in the weather occurred today, as a band of cloud and rain moved across the area from Bulgaria and Greece. A thunderstorm advisory has been issued for Istanbul this evening, but any showers will quickly die away as the cloud and rain spreads east.

As we move towards the race weekend, conditions will improve dramatically as an area of high pressure moves up from north Africa, spreading across the country during the event - giving increasing temperatures in strong sunshine.

On Friday, clear skies and occasional scattered cloud will return to the Istanbul region. The practice sessions will take place in pleasant conditions and a maximum temperature of 27 degrees Celsius.

Saturday and Sunday see the high pressure becoming more prominent, with a guarantee of wall-to-wall sunshine and temperatures becoming very warm - 30 degrees for qualifying and up to 32 Celsius for the race.

In summary, a hot and dry weekend is to be expected.


Synoptic trend

The week begins with a large area of high pressure extending north into Turkey from North Africa. On Wednesday, conditions will become less settled for a time with the arrival of a weak low bringing patchy rain late on Wednesday and into Thursday. Friday will see high pressure steadily building from the south again, improving conditions throughout the weekend.

Detailed forecast

The build-up to the practice sessions this week will be punctuated by showers and some patchy rain late on Wednesday and through most of the media day on Thursday.

Friday will see conditions improving, with some patches of cloud and good spells of sunshine. Temperatures will be on the rise again following the midweek wobble with the rain, with a predicted maximum of 24 degrees Celsius.

On Saturday and Sunday the improvement will continue, with increasing amounts of sunshine, little in the way of cloud cover and rising temperatures - heading towards 30 degrees for the race.

The track temperature will of course increase throughout the weekend with the improving weather. For the last three years at this circuit, the asphalt temperature has been 17 or 18 degrees higher than that in the air. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect track temps to peak at around 41 degrees on Friday, rising to 45 Celsius on Sunday for the race.
ryanallan
one week early, you must be really board haha
buh_buh
yeah, I'm bored. A week of discussion leading up to GP isn't bad either.
DJ Lazy
Damn.. gonna have to watch last years again to jog my memory of the track.. haha!
ottamania
I was gonna go back home and i bought 5 tickets to see F1 with my brothers. I had to cancel my plane ticket due to immigration documents. I tried cancelling the F1 as well, they would but not refund. I am missing the race. :banghead:
Chris Elyea
Check out the Formula1.com Gallery for last year's race. They've got a couple of great photos of Fisichella flying over top of Nakajima.

2008 Turkish GP Gallery from Formula1.com

That always drives my dad nuts: "They spend millions of dollars to put a car on the grid and then they don't make it past the first corner!"
ryanallan
New Toyota rear wing and Renault rear body work
Apparently Renault is planning a big aero update this weekend. cant wait to see some more pics




old


new
Mibz
Uh, is that exhaust legal?

EDIT: I imagine they'll fix it when they finish the update.
DJ Lazy
This 2 week wait between races is killing me! :rofl:
buh_buh
anybody watching FP1 right now?
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by buh_buh
anybody watching FP1 right now?



I just finished watching my downloaded copy... Entertaining... Interesting results... Then again Brawn sandbags every testing session, so no surprise to barely see them in the top 10... ;)

ryanallan
ughhh I am having trouble keeping up with all these aero updates haha

Toyota

old diffuser

new


McLaren

old diffuser

new


BMW

old turning vane

new - i guess you could also spot new wheel covers and a front under tray


old diffuser

new


Ferrari

old diffuser

new
DJ Lazy
Ferrari's diffuser seem very "plain jane" compared to everyone elses..

And Mclaren is back to their symetrical exhaust ports.
ryanallan
Ya Ferrari is difinatly going a different way with their diffuser.
There is a huge "hole", looks like they are really taking advantage of that route.

something new on the Williams



Chris Elyea
Good to be able to watch FP2 on Speed HD again!

Never can believe anything you see on Friday, but it looks like the harder tire is better. Bob Varsha speculated that the soft compound may be better once some rubber gets down on the track.

Saw a reply of FP1 where they had to red flag the session because the astroturf beside the track was getting ripped up. Hope that doesn't happen during the race. Reminded me of that drain cover incident - had to Google it and found there were two. During practice in Turkey in 2007 and Montoya hit one during the race in China in 2005.

Vettel only did four laps before he stopped on track due to "an undisclosed mechanical problem." Hope they get that figured out so the Brawns have somebody to race.

A a little bit of comedy at the end, with Nakajima and Fisichella bumping together and spinning. Don't know what they were up to, but hopefully it generates some bad blood.

Looking forward to qualifying to see what the truth is!
rage2
WTF McLaren. Pulls a Ferrari, puts Hamilton on the Hard tires for Q3. Here's a hint. You have a slow car, get out of Q3 first! Don't take this stupid risks.
rage2
haha these announcers here are so clueless.

Kubica scores fastest S1. "Kubica's on his way to take pole by a mile!"
Kubica struggles turn 8 S2, like 1/2 second off (poor aero).
Kubica finishes the lap P4.

"He lost a lot of time in the slow sections. The mechanical grip on his car must be really poor".

lol they need to learn to look at sector times instead of total time that flashes on the screen.
DJ Lazy
Vettel takes Pole!! :D

WTF was wrong with Mclaren today?!... Hamilton should have atleast made it to Q2, and Kovy should have been into Q3...

At least Massa's domination should come to an end this year..:)

Curious to see the race weights.
rage2
Free practice doesn't mean shit, that's what happened.

Vettel is such a good driver. If he was in a Brawn, Button would have no chance.
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by rage2
Free practice doesn't mean shit, that's what happened.

Vettel is such a good driver. If he was in a Brawn, Button would have no chance.



It's gonna be tricky getting the pool picks right this week... so many guys sliding around the track, even in quali.... One tiny mistake and you could easily go from 1st to 5-6th...

Pacman
Originally posted by rage2

Vettel is such a good driver. If he was in a Brawn, Button would have no chance.



I totally agree about Vettel.......even Lewis Hamilton would have a chance at being in the top 10 if he was in a Brawn car :poosie:

Chandler_Racing
Watcing Mclaren turn into a bunch of back markers has been fabulous.

It seems to be they're the new Honda :rofl:

Vettel had an amazing qualifying, although over the race my guess is he will concede his position to Jenson and possibly Rubens too.
Cos
jesus that mclaren is all over the place. What the hell happened.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Inzane
So... how long until Piquet and Bourdais are handed their pink slips? :D
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by Pacman


I totally agree about Vettel.......even Lewis Hamilton would have a chance at being in the top 10 if he was in a Brawn car :poosie:



Actually if LH was in a Brawn, the only difference would be 6/6 wins for Brawn, as Vettel wouldn't have beat him in rainy China. ;)

Mibz
Originally posted by Inzane
So... how long until Piquet and Bourdais are handed their pink slips? :D

With a handful of new teams joining in 2010 I imagine the demand for experienced drivers, regardless of how shitty they are, will increase. Expect them to be at the bottom of the grid in different colours next year ;)

cycosis
So what time do I have to get up tomrrow morning to watch this thing?
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by cycosis
So what time do I have to get up tomrrow morning to watch this thing?



6am for the race... 530am for the Acura Pre-race.

Mibz
This'll be the first one I watch at home. If I can manage to wake myself up.
Revhard
No doubt that Vettel is very good, but don't think for a second that he has anything but a great car. If Mark Webber is fast, it is a fast car!!!
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by Mibz
This'll be the first one I watch at home. If I can manage to wake myself up.



I managed to pull off 5am quali this morning live... but thats only because I was awake a 430 to call in and see if I was working.. :nut:

buh_buh
wow the Macca was all over the place. I wouldn't mind seeing a Vettel win, though its not going to happen. The championship is getting boring. :zzz:
DJ Lazy
Originally posted by buh_buh
wow the Macca was all over the place. I wouldn't mind seeing a Vettel win, though its not going to happen. The championship is getting boring. :zzz:



Maybe for us, but I bet Jenson and Brawn are loving it!


So let me get this straight buh_buh... Brawn (ex-honda), YOUR team... and you are bored? :rofl:

I was getting pretty excited while watching Q3... when Button took 1st at the end of the session, I was soo pissed off that he had pulled out another late one, but didn't realize vettel was still on a hot lap, when vettel crossed and stole pole from Jenson, I rocketed off the couch fist pumping!! :rofl: I got nothing against Brawn/Jenson, but I've heard enough about the "cinderella" story for them. Plus I really took a liking to Vettel last year, so if Mclaren is gonna be in the shitters this year, I might as well root for "The Vet". :D

buh_buh
yeah, I'm a Honda fan, and I still find this championship boring.
At least when my team was out of it the past couple years there have been a close championship and the unexpected podiums were more exciting. I don't want to see the championship decided halfway through the season. I want to see Kimi win it in the last race 7 points down. I want to see Massa lose it in the last corner of the last race. I want to see Alonso almost blow it in the second half of the season because of a mass damper ruling by the FIA (ok actually maybe not really the last one). But I want to see exciting racing. Not another repeat of '04 with a couple of new characters but mostly the same ones.
DJ Lazy
Yea, I know what you're saying... I'm tired of the domination too, and not because I don't like Brawn, it's just boring to watch, even though Red Bull have been close, just not as close as Mclaren/Ferrari last year, Renault/Ferrari in 06, and the inner team battle in 07 at Mclaren... I do miss that excitement.. :(
Mibz
Well I'm up. Let's hope it's worth it.
Vagabond142
what? Speed nor TSN have it on o_O
Cos
holy shit what a first lap :nut:

Originally posted by Vagabond142
what? Speed nor TSN have it on o_O



tsn2 HD has it on. 213 on shaw

Vagabond142
Okay, I'll rephrase: for us poor bastards with only Tier 3 bog standard cable, TSN nor Speed has it on -_-
Cos
^^ ah, try justintv
Mibz
Well I certainly enjoyed watching Barrichello for 12 laps.... *cough*

My picks are fucked if this keeps up. You put faith into Ferrari one time and it bites you in the ass. All I can hope for is that Vettel takes back the lead and keeps it.

This, combined with my missed Spain race, could just knock me right out of it.
Cos
I wasnt expecting Webber to stick with the leaders this long and ferrari fucked me over too :(

What is nakajima doing up so high?
Cos
and barrichello is out. dammit.
mischief
Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Watcing Mclaren turn into a bunch of back markers has been fabulous.

It seems to be they're the new Honda :rofl:



Mclaren has a long way to go before they can be compared to Honda. Didn't Honda suck for 10+ years including the BAR days?

Mibz
31 points. :barf:
Ah well.
Cos
^^ haha i passed you
buh_buh
Yeah BAR was brutal back in the Zonta/Villeneuve days. McLaren's still got a ways to go before they're considered that bad. Something like 11 retirements in a row in their first year, but I don't think they were running Honda engines yet in their first year. But they really only had one good year (2004) before they magically turned themselves into backmarkers.

Barrichello looking very Coulthard-esque this year. Vettel probably could've had second had he been able to make a move on Button, or if they pitted him earlier to get him out of traffic. Its pretty difficult to get it done on a 3 stopper. And a beauty pass by Piquet on Hamilton there too.
Skyline_Addict
Originally posted by buh_buh


And a beauty pass by Piquet on Hamilton there too.




that pass was dead sexy.

Chris Elyea
Originally posted by Skyline_Addict



that pass was dead sexy.



Very retro! It's been a long, long time since we've seen wheel-to-wheel action like that. Too bad it probably won't be enough for the poor bastard to keep his job at Renault....

DJ Lazy
Plus Hamilton was full of fuel...

Glad to see no one ran away with big points in the pool...
buh_buh
if we're talking about good wheel to wheel action, I think the Barrichello-Kovy pass and repass was pretty damn good too. Barrichello is showing further signs that he should not be back next year.
rage2
ya that was an epic battle. The hamilton pass... honestly, he was so heavy, even Force India could've made that one haha.

Crazy to see the Force Indias were 15kph faster than the McLarens through turn 8. Yes, our aero is that much worse than Force India (2nd worst aero on the grid).

How did Hamilton do 1/2 the race on softs? That was pretty impressive. His laptimes were super consistent too.
HHURICANE1
It looks like once the track got rubbered in the softs weren't as bad as during qualifying. The times didn't seem to drop as much as everyone was expecting.
ryanallan
Originally posted by buh_buh
if we're talking about good wheel to wheel action, I think the Barrichello-Kovy pass and repass was pretty damn good too. Barrichello is showing further signs that he should not be back next year.


that was a great display of KERS. kov just blew by him on the repass

cloud7
Originally posted by ryanallan

that was a great display of KERS. kov just blew by him on the repass



ya, Ruhbens should have made hekki's life more difficult by blocking the inside line more aggressively and let him go around the long way and then trying to run him off the road... at least he would have a chance of staying ahead. He was just a sitting duck after making a nice move on Hekki.

buh_buh
Originally posted by ryanallan

that was a great display of KERS. kov just blew by him on the repass

Yeah this was really the first time I've seen KERS make a big difference. I've seen it make a difference in Australia with Alonso on Glock, but that was just delaying the inevitable. It was apparent when these two were going at it making a big difference. You could tell on the straights Barrichello would get the jump on him at the exit, then the gap would just stay constant when logic dictates Barrichello should continue to close the gap, and of course the repass. I think scrapping KERS for next year so soon is a mistake. It has potential if they either increase the duration or power output, and the further they develop KERS, the lighter the system will eventually be, and results will outweigh the downfalls, though they could even easily alleviate that right now by either increasing duration or power.

DJ Lazy
^^ Yea, I really don't want to see KERS get scrapped next year... I think it's a great thing to incorporate into the car, and actually street cars... Eddie Jordan can go fuck himself when it comes to his view on KERS... :rofl:

Isn't that what some of F1 is about... Testing the latest technology of automakers in F1 so they can incorporate it into our vehicles in the future?
buh_buh
I used to think that, but I'm beginning to think its the other way around now. There are some obvious technologies flowing from F1->roadcar like active suspension or twin clutch DSG systems. But I think we're starting to see newer technologies in road cars, and as road car technologies advance, develop, and become better, we start to see some of those technologies put in race cars.

Isn't KERS essentially how electric cars work, or an even more basic use, how an alternator works, though an alternator is charged not using brakes, but using engine power. Both store energy in the form of electricity, stored in the battery, then used for radio, windows, engine (in electric cars)? I haven't really thought this through, just kind of came to me as I was writing this.
Chris Elyea
Uh huh, we're seeing the last of the KERS-assisted passes - maybe! Apparently KERS was one of Max Mosley's babies, so this may just be another FOTA shot at him.

Yes, my company had an R&D electric vehicle in 1992 and it had regenerative breaking. It's pretty common in electric vehicles. Generators are pretty similar to electric motors, so it's easy to set up. F1 had two KERS options, the second being a flywheel instead of a generator, which only Williams is using.

As far as transfer of technology from F1 to road cars, the rules have been moving them away from that. Lotus active suspension was maybe the last big hurrah. My road car has traction control and ABS, which are now banned in F1. I like seeing the drivers work for their money! Drifting looks cool. Smooth drivers are rewarded for being able to protect their tires. It's a bit frustrating to see a car that's quick under braking and corners be unable to pass a slug that gooses KERS in the straights. Sorry to say it, but the Kovalainen-Barrichello duel wasn't driving, it was just technology, unlike Piquet-Hamilton.

Transfer of technology from road cars to F1? I doubt it. Politically, road cars are always getting more restrictive environmental regulations, so F1 will probably have to work on getting greener. They're already using some bio-ethanol and bio-methanol. That's about the only transfer I expect. Of course, this was supposed to be one of the reasons for adopting KERS....
ryanallan
The flywheel system Williams is using has actually been around for awhile. It's currently being used in hybrid buses. Edmonton has one.

I guess Williams work in making the system smaller and lighter is relevant to road cars though.

I was really looking forward to seeing a more powerful KERS. Who knows, maybe next week the rules will change again ...
buh_buh
I don't think increasing the power output or duration is really a big problem for the teams. I'm sure all the teams that employ KERS are already capable of it, its just a matter of letting them do it and changing a couple values in their programming. So to keep KERS relevant, why not just let them do it instead of scapping it? That's what I don't get.
Cos
^^^ or why limit how much they can use per lap? if you want to load your car down with batteries but have 500+ hp extra per lap. go nuts.

It would be a fine balance between traction, weight, balance, and power.
rage2
Originally posted by buh_buh
I don't think increasing the power output or duration is really a big problem for the teams. I'm sure all the teams that employ KERS are already capable of it, its just a matter of letting them do it and changing a couple values in their programming. So to keep KERS relevant, why not just let them do it instead of scapping it? That's what I don't get.


Battery/flywheel, or power storage requirements change when they up the output or duration. They size the power packs to make sure they carry as little weight as possible to achieve the desired per lap output.

McLaren actually had KERS back in 98, deemed legal by the FIA before it was banned by protest via Ferrari. It was a hydraulic system, under braking the hydraulic pumps would be used to build up really high pressures (creating an engine braking effect), and once back on the power at WOT the excess pressure would bleed off using the same pump to provide ~5 seconds of 45hp boost. A very clever system with next to no weight penalty.

That was the race where McLaren, even tho Ferrari presumably hacked into the McLaren radio and told Hakkinen to pit, causing the team to waste an extra pitstop, the 2 McLarens still lapped the entire field.

That's why they're putting limits into the KERS rules right now controlled by the SECU. If it was free to use, the KERS team would destroy non KERS team.

ryanallan
Originally posted by rage2

That was the race where McLaren, even tho Ferrari presumably hacked into the McLaren radio and told Hakkinen to pit, causing the team to waste an extra pitstop, the 2 McLarens still lapped the entire field.


LOL that's awesome !!

rage2
http://www.formula1.com/video

Click I agree, click turkey. Didn't hear that hamilton quote during the race hahaha.

"Its embarassing... I can't even keep up with the fucking Renault in front of me... my tyres have gone off... I'm heavier than frickin boat!"

haha sums up McLaren's season right there lol.
Chris Elyea
Originally posted by rage2


Didn't hear that hamilton quote during the race hahaha.



I hope they'll provide on-line access to the radio transmissions soon. It seems they're doing it at the track if you rent a Kangaroo TV. Apparently the TV crews covering the races are using Kangaroos because that's the only way they can listen to the radios. NASCAR and IndyCar both have it on-line and it is hilarious to listen to the drivers whine about their cars and each other.

(Kangaroo TV's Web site content was obviously designed by the Marketing department, because it shows a guy right at trackside using it with iPod headphones. The scanners at IndyCar and NASCAR races have huge earmuff headsets so you can actually hear them over the cars.)

rage2
Originally posted by Chris Elyea
I hope they'll provide on-line access to the radio transmissions soon. It seems they're doing it at the track if you rent a Kangaroo TV. Apparently the TV crews covering the races are using Kangaroos because that's the only way they can listen to the radios. NASCAR and IndyCar both have it on-line and it is hilarious to listen to the drivers whine about their cars and each other.

(Kangaroo TV's Web site content was obviously designed by the Marketing department, because it shows a guy right at trackside using it with iPod headphones. The scanners at IndyCar and NASCAR races have huge earmuff headsets so you can actually hear them over the cars.)


I used KTV at Spanish GP. The only pit convos that come on are the same ones you hear on TV, so what FOM delays to TV audiences. It just mutes the commentary so nobody can talk over it. The only thing different from a normal TV broadcast for KTV is you get in-car videos. But only 2 cars max, and chosen by FOM.




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