RCMP, dozens of CPS, K9, HAWCS, a locked down mall - how the hell did they get away?!

[Stealth22]

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090622/CGY_police_chase_090622/20090623/?hub=CalgaryHome

[blueripper6]

haha YES!!!

Ill bet that pursuit video wont be on tv..

[gretz]

police are looking for 2 white males:rofl:

[sputnik]

How hard is it to find 2 white males in the NE?

[whiskas]

Obligatory NE comment.

[Stealth22]

I just re-read the article...HAWCS followed the truck as it came back in, but in keeping with their strict policy on pursuits, CPS kept the ground units away. The problem came when the bad guys decided to go to the mall- cruisers had to race in there, and until backup arrives, they're limited to the few cops they have, and its a tossup- surround the mall and risk having them change clothes and slip by you, or race in after them and risk losing them completely.

I would have thought that K9 could have found them with the mall locked down though? :dunno:

[old&slow]

These guys watcc TV. They changed their clothes and appearance and walked out!

[heinz256]

:facepalm:

[civic_stylez]

This chase went right past the front of our dealership.. it was quite the sight... buddy was rippin along on rims... sparks flying everywhere... there was at least 25 cop cars following him as well... not a bad end to a monday....

[IntegraG2]

fail for the CPS....

[lilmira]

They probably wrapped their heads with towels, put fake beard and shoe polish on their faces and walked right out.

[TurboD]

sounds like some poor police work, how can they let them drive around all day with a flat tire like that and not be able to stop them.

where is calgary's tactical team
where was the pit team
where were the whitnesses in the mall that lets these guys hide?


its like a mini 9/11

that story makes me feel so safe knowing cps are protecting the city! :rofl:

+1 for the argument against a police force

[Stealth22]

^^

What PIT team? CPS hates chases, they don't do the PIT...they abandon the chase "in fear of public safety" and send the chopper. Too bad the chopper can't go inside a mall...

[BlackArcher101]

:facepalm: (And this is for the posters in this thread, not the CPS)

[Tomaz]

Sounds like a pretty intence chase! These trucks are always in front of my building (near Deerfoot Inn & Casino). It's strange to see one involved in such a story!

[Godfuader]

CTV News also learned that RCMP will be looking into whether attempted murder charges could be laid with regards to one of their officers nearly being run down.

Nice, now they can say that they let 2 wannabe murderers get away.

[TurboD]

Originally posted by Godfuader

Nice, now they can say that they let 2 wannabe murderers get away.

in court the cops would have to prove who the driver was and at this point it doesn't sound like they have much evidence at all of the identity of these two fellows

[toyboy88]

Jason Bourne. ;)

[BenC]

Was working that day. All I see is tons of cops telling white douche bags to show their I'd's

[Sugarphreak]

...

[TurboD]

can cops legally ask for ID from thoes people in the mall

would a suspect in the area provide reasonable grounds to suspect?

i don't think the public legally must provide ID while walking around a mall, but some would likely provide this without questions.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by TurboD
can cops legally ask for ID from thoes people in the mall

would a suspect in the area provide reasonable grounds to suspect?

i don't think the public legally must provide ID while walking around a mall, but some would likely provide this without questions.


A cop is allowed to walk up to you on the street and ask you for your id, no questions asked.

correct me if im wrong?

[Kona9]

By law only the RCMP are allowed to pursue vehicles (in high speed). CPS are not.

I learned this when I was involved in uncovering a retarded (Beyond member) kids stolen CRX. The CPS Constables I was dealing with actually requested I go to the media about it and make a stink that the CPS are not allowed to pursue at high speed.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by BenC
Was working that day. All I see is tons of cops telling white douche bags to show their I'd's
What was the purpose of that? Did they even know what they were looking for, eye witnesses...or just hoping that 2 guys nervously refuse to show theirs?

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Kona9
By law only the RCMP are allowed to pursue vehicles (in high speed). CPS are not.

I learned this when I was involved in uncovering a retarded (Beyond member) kids stolen CRX. The CPS Constables I was dealing with actually requested I go to the media about it and make a stink that the CPS are not allowed to pursue at high speed.

It's policy, not law. Basically we have to weight the danger to the public by pursuing vs not pursuing. A stolen vehicle is not worth endangering lives over.

Also it's a liability thing also unfortunately. Douche bag driving dangerously without a cop in sight is not a liability. Put a cop car with it's lights on behind it and it's a multi-million dollar law suit waiting to happen. I don't agree with it morally, but that's the world we live in.

[95EagleAWD]

Just goes to show how bad the "no chase" policy is.

Cops are trained to drive at high speed. Let 'em.

[89supradude]

yo i was there at the mall right after this happened. the cops inside the mall that were supposed be watching the exits were getting yelled at by the older cop, and outside they were all laughing/talking. no wonder they got away

[se7en]

lol, good for the 'bad guys'.

most cops are douche bags anyway.

[Meback]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Normally I would agree, but honestly they should have been more aggressive and spun out the truck. I saw the footage of that truck whipping down the road with no tire, in the name of public safety I think they should have done something.

It is totally unacceptable that that much police force wasn't able to prevent those guys from getting into the mall in the first place. It is very troubling to know that they were able to evade police IMO.


Normally, police would call off a chase, it is acually safer for the public, having someone travel 100 kms tryign to invade police poses a greater threat.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by TurboD
can cops legally ask for ID from thoes people in the mall

would a suspect in the area provide reasonable grounds to suspect?

i don't think the public legally must provide ID while walking around a mall, but some would likely provide this without questions.

Yes, cops can ask for your ID at any time they feel like it. IIRC the old licences (2 part ones) it used to state that it must be produced upon demand of a peace officer, not sure if the new ones say it or not.

[89supradude]

ya there was some guy there that these two young cops were hassling and askin for id. turns out that he wasn't the guy

btw bindu suri was there from global tv. so hot

[spikerS]

Originally posted by DayGlow


It's policy, not law. Basically we have to weight the danger to the public by pursuing vs not pursuing. A stolen vehicle is not worth endangering lives over.

Also it's a liability thing also unfortunately. Douche bag driving dangerously without a cop in sight is not a liability. Put a cop car with it's lights on behind it and it's a multi-million dollar law suit waiting to happen. I don't agree with it morally, but that's the world we live in.

high speed chases became a thing of the past afer const. Richard Sonnenberg (sp?) was killed while putting a spike belt out on deerfoot. Huge public outcry over it, and the policy was adopted. We did get Hawcs out of it tho, and on the bottom it has the " in memory of richard sonnenberg".

Personally, I like the way they do it in texas on the highways. high speed persuit? cops pull up alongside with a shotgun and take out the tires. LOL

[TurboD]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki



A cop is allowed to walk up to you on the street and ask you for your id, no questions asked.

correct me if im wrong?


Originally posted by spikers


Yes, cops can ask for your ID at any time they feel like it. IIRC the old licences (2 part ones) it used to state that it must be produced upon demand of a peace officer, not sure if the new ones say it or not.

You don't have to show the police your identification or tell them who you are. Canadian Law doesn't even require you to carry your ID papers with you. Protesters are advised not to bring their ID to the protest. It makes it difficult for the police to find any information that could be used against you. On top of that, you'll probably never see your ID again after the cops take it from you. But with most laws and rules, there are exceptions. If you are arrested by the police, then you have to tell them who you are. If you're driving a motor vehicle, you need your driver's license and vehicle registration, which you must present to the police if they ask you for it. If you are under 18 and the police find you in a bar, then you'll have to show your ID. Some municipalities have by-laws that require you to show ID if you are found at night in a public place (i.e. park, street, etc.). If you refuse, you could be charged with vagrancy.

on the street, if the police ask for ID for no given reason or suspicion, the Canadian bill of rights protects you from having to offer that to the police

[BumbleBeeCivic]

I suppose that it is possible that these 2 guys weren't white.

that would explain why the CPS couldn't find them them.

[JustGo]

Calgary roads aren't made for 'high speed chases'.

The biggest road we have is three lanes wide, and is a gong show at the best of times.

Any pursuit in Calgary would end in a crash, no doubt.

Although the policy sucks... I have had a couple 599's.

[CUG]

Most of the people in this thread who have a hard-on for the bad guy, also have zero written English skills. LOL

[Akagi Redsuns]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
Just goes to show how bad the "no chase" policy is.

Cops are trained to drive at high speed. Let 'em.

Looking at it the other way, what about the driving skills of the driver trying to get away? Usually they can't handle it and end up plowing into a innocent driver or worse a pedestrian.

The police helicopter helps and it's too bad we can't shoot a GPS tracker on the chased car, or other methods to catch these idiots. Or maybe the "evading police" charge needs to carry some weight to make it a deterrent to even attempt it.

[TurboD]

Originally posted by CUG
Most of the people in this thread who have a hard-on for the bad guy

who is the bad guy? the entity that takes half your wages at gunpoint or the people that steal cars?

[dharminder]

Originally posted by lilmira
They probably wrapped their heads with towels, put fake beard and shoe polish on their faces and walked right out.

:thumbsdow

[ZenOps]

Run Forrest Runn!

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Normally I would agree, but honestly they should have been more aggressive and spun out the truck. I saw the footage of that truck whipping down the road with no tire, in the name of public safety I think they should have done something.

It is totally unacceptable that that much police force wasn't able to prevent those guys from getting into the mall in the first place. It is very troubling to know that they were able to evade police IMO.

+1

The biggest mistake was letting them get to a crowded mall the in first place. Its a judgement call, but the officers totally screwed up letting them enter a crowded public area - and doubly screwed up when they lost them.

Reminds me of people who day trip to the US. Go in with tshirts and sneakers - come back to Canada in an Armani suit.

[Isaiah]

Every time I've seen a pursuit on TV I've wondered why they don't go into a crowded mall to elude the cops. It's a wonder they don't do it more often.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by ZenOps


+1

The biggest mistake was letting them get to a crowded mall the in first place. Its a judgement call, but the officers totally screwed up letting them enter a crowded public area - and doubly screwed up when they lost them.

Reminds me of people who day trip to the US. Go in with tshirts and sneakers - come back to Canada in an Armani suit.
Whoa, hold up.... the OFFICERS screwed up? The officers did what they were told... I guarantee that if they had their choice, it would have been dealt with way earlier.

Policy screwed up, NOT the officers involved.

[DayGlow]

Personally I think if someone runs in a vehicle it should be concidered a lethal force situation. So when buddy took a run at the cop laying out the spike belt there should have been someone in lethal overwatch with a C8 that would start plugging the driver.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Personally I think if someone runs in a vehicle it should be concidered a lethal force situation. So when buddy took a run at the cop laying out the spike belt there should have been someone in lethal overwatch with a C8 that would start plugging the driver.
I agree. Too bad it probably won't happen in our lifetime.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by JustGo

Whoa, hold up.... the OFFICERS screwed up? The officers did what they were told... I guarantee that if they had their choice, it would have been dealt with way earlier.

Policy screwed up, NOT the officers involved.

The guy was supposedly running on rims, sparking the road. Thats a judgement call that the officer makes - immediate danger to himself and everyone around him means its up to the officer to do the right thing and worry about reprimands later.

Shoulda took the Texas like initiative and bumped him.

And of course, doubly the officers fault for losing them in the mall.

[DayGlow]

ever heard of command and control?

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by ZenOps
And of course, doubly the officers fault for losing them in the mall.
And of course, you could have done better than the CPS?

How do you expect a few officers, having arrived on scene at least a minute after the bad guys went inside (since they were under orders to stand down during the pursuit), to contain an entire mall? We all know how big that damn mall is...with the limited resources/backup the first officers on the scene had, running in after the bad guys was not a wise choice.

Like I said in an earlier post, its better to surround/lock down the mall, hope that they don't get past you in the process of locking the doors, and send in the Tac Team and K9. Running in after them with lets say, 10-15 cops, and thats being optomistic, is a really stupid idea, and you would lose them completely.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by ZenOps


The guy was supposedly running on rims, sparking the road. Thats a judgement call that the officer makes - immediate danger to himself and everyone around him means its up to the officer to do the right thing and worry about reprimands later.

Shoulda took the Texas like initiative and bumped him.

And of course, doubly the officers fault for losing them in the mall.
You have NO idea what you're talking about, so go ahead and stop talking.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Stealth22
[url] RCMP, dozens of CPS, K9, HAWCS, a locked down mall - how the hell did they get away?!

Hid in the ladies washroom?
:dunno:

[Jay911]

IMO we should be arming the police helicopters.

A 50 cal thru the engine block would stop a vehicle in a hurry. And if you track a little and get the passenger compartment instead of the engine block, oh well.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by JustGo
Calgary roads aren't made for 'high speed chases'.

The biggest road we have is three lanes wide, and is a gong show at the best of times.

Any pursuit in Calgary would end in a crash, no doubt.

Although the policy sucks... I have had a couple 599's.

...and ended them without 01 knowing? Hahah, haven't we all... unofficially of course. Sometimes in the interests of doing the right thing you have to push it a bit, so I'm with you on that one.

I'm going to shoot you a PM. :)

[A790]

Originally posted by se7en
lol, good for the 'bad guys'.

most cops are douche bags anyway.
Only a fucking twat would say something so dumb.

[Cos]

Originally posted by A790

Only a fucking twat would say something so dumb.

here here

[gam0s]

LOL FAIL .. so useless hahaha

[sexualbanana]

I'm not an expert on the area but that area's pretty busy around 4pm isn't it? Meaning a high probability of collateral damage?



Originally posted by CUG
Most of the people in this thread who have a hard-on for the bad guy, also have zero written English skills. LOL

Coincidence? I think not.

[FlySi]

I love when shit like this happens, proves my previous posts are correct. 10% of the cops in calgary were chasing them, the other 90% were hiding behind stop signs and handing out j walking tickets.:rofl:

[BumbleBeeCivic]

Interesting dilemma.....If I was in a mall that was under lock down, should I stay or should I go?

I think I would hang around instead of trying to leave.

My thinking on this is simple, the longer you wait, the more likely they are to pull officers off of detail.

Plus, if you ever do run into a police officer, they either know who they are looking for or they don't. The more time that you delay having this meeting the more likely you'll be able to put on a poker face and play Innocent.

In the marborough professional building do they have a walk in clinic? A nice long wait in a waiting room followed by a trip to the pharmacist could be a nice cover story.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Jay911
IMO we should be arming the police helicopters.

A 50 cal thru the engine block would stop a vehicle in a hurry. And if you track a little and get the passenger compartment instead of the engine block, oh well.

You need to have sinlge shot capabiltiy and the reason they don't is because its just too hard to shoot accurately from a helicopter.

[ryder_23]

Originally posted by alloroc


the reason they don't is because its just too hard to shoot accurately from a helicopter.

Yes, that is the only reason :rolleyes:

Im pretty sure in canada, police officers aren't even allowed to shoot from a moving police vehicle, like you see them do in the states.

[Hamann]

Flip it, if the CPS had continued with the Vehicle pursuit instead of only following with the Helicopter there would have been a exponentially greater chance of collateral damage (being loss of innocent life or a massive lawsuit against the city) and then 90% of the people in this thread would be saying why didn't they just pull back, get over it, 2 Car Theives got away, big deal. Atleast this way i don't have to hear everyone saying the CPS put citizens in danger and look what happened.

And their 2 car theives running from the cops, they were of no danger to anyone in the mall, while running from the cops the stupidest thing you can do is stop and grab a hostage.

:drama:

I say Props to the CPS for not trying to emulate the "I can be on the TV" sheriffs in the states. :thumbsup:

[06civic]

I guess this ends the whole you can't outrun the radio argument:D

[tarrantas]

In a sealed mall, I could find the guys. There must have been eyewitnesses....?

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by tarrantas
In a sealed mall, I could find the guys. There must have been eyewitnesses....?
Ever stop to think that the mall WASN'T sealed? It takes a hell of a lot of cops to seal a mall of that size. In the time needed to get that many cops on the scene, the bad guys could get away, especially having changed clothes, because I don't think the CPS had perfect descriptions of these guys if you don't include the clothing.

[JustGo]

People are making it seem like the CPS planned to have bodies on hand for this event.

It's not like they had a week to set aside 20 car crews for this chase. It is a dynamic situation, where most cars in the city are tied up doing something probably 80% of the time. That leaves at MOST 20% of cars free to deal with new stuff, then that expands to probably 40-50% when guys can clear up what they're doing quickly to help out.

50% of the cars in the district, on any given day, isn't enough to really shut down that whole mall. I'm not sure the exact scenario in this case, but I would imagine guys from other districts were yanked over to help out.

That being said, my original point still stands, this is a dynamic, ever changing situation, and everyone here has had a few days to think of what they would do differently.

It's a whole new ball game when you're planning on the fly, and don't have 3 days to sit on an internet forum and debate other options.

[TurboMedic]

Originally posted by phil98z24


...and ended them without 01 knowing? Hahah, haven't we all... unofficially of course. Sometimes in the interests of doing the right thing you have to push it a bit, so I'm with you on that one.

I'm going to shoot you a PM. :)

Hey at least you guys have support from 01 when shit goes down, he's still one of you ;) ......Our sierras shit on us for the smallest things......

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Hamann
I say Props to the CPS for not trying to emulate the "I can be on the TV" sheriffs in the states. :thumbsup: :werd:

Couple car thieves aren't worth a life.

[IntegraG2]

Originally posted by lilmira
They probably wrapped their heads with towels, put fake beard and shoe polish on their faces and walked right out.

wow did anyone else find this extremely racist???? :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

[JustGo]

Originally posted by IntegraG2


wow did anyone else find this extremely racist???? :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow
If the guys were black, and he had said 'they ran inside, covered their faces in flour, grabbed a briefcase and walked out'... would THAT be racist?

He never really said anything derogatory. He described a disguise... nothing really RACIST.

I think the racist card is thrown around a little willy-nilly these days.

[psycoticclown]

Originally posted by JustGo

If the guys were black, and he had said 'they ran inside, covered their faces in flour, grabbed a briefcase and walked out'... would THAT be racist?

He never really said anything derogatory. He described a disguise... nothing really RACIST.

I think the racist card is thrown around a little willy-nilly these days.

:werd:

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by TurboMedic


Hey at least you guys have support from 01 when shit goes down, he's still one of you ;) ......Our sierras shit on us for the smallest things......

Amen buddy, I have heard nothing but bad things about your management, including your street bosses... not cool!


Originally posted by lilmira
They probably wrapped their heads with towels, put fake beard and shoe polish on their faces and walked right out.

That sounds like a funny Team America reference to me, nothing racist...

Anyways, I think this situation didn't exactly end the way it should have nor was it necessarily run the way that I perceive it should have been - but that is why I'm a lowly street guy and not the one with stripes on my arm or pips on my shoulder... not to say my experiences and knowledge doesn't bear weight, but in the end it sometimes isn't worth the risk to the public to do a full on pursuit where we would have had a 99.9% chance of catching him, but with a very high risk factor to do it.

Just remember this - this guy attempted to take out a cop, and they still didn't think it was worth it. That right there shows how important public safety is, and despite what some people think, that we do accept in certain situations that we choose to do this job and put ourselves in harms way from time to time and that things that happen to us are not necessarily more important than everyone else's safety.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by IntegraG2


wow did anyone else find this extremely racist???? :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

No, I do find you overly sensitive though.

[IntegraG2]

Wow I guess I interpreted that pretty wrong then. :banghead:

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by phil98z24
...Just remember this - this guy attempted to take out a cop,...

How did he attempt to take out a cop? The officer probably ran to the middle of the road to throw the spike belt, and got too close to the action. Not defending the suspects, just saying that its highly unlikely that the driver saw the cop and gunned for him.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by IntegraG2
Wow I guess I interpreted that pretty wrong then. :banghead:

Yes, you did.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Godfuader


How did he attempt to take out a cop? The officer probably ran to the middle of the road to throw the spike belt, and got too close to the action. Not defending the suspects, just saying that its highly unlikely that the driver saw the cop and gunned for him.

The RCMP officer was on the side of the highway away from the action and the vehicle swerved towards him and accelerated, and he had to get out of the way - I think that shows pretty clear intent. :)

Sugarphreak, I agree with some of the things you are saying but as you say we are very handcuffed by the policies that are in place, and we don't have alot of say in "touchy" matters such as pursuits. It's a very polarizing issue, and alot of the civilian members of the police commission don't think the risks are worth the reward.

We have ways to end these things as it was proven last year during the car jacking, but the people who control our destiny have spoken and they don't like it unless absolutely necessary. It's frustrating. :banghead:

[zain123]

i was coming back to calgary and witnessed most of this
i was so confused at first as to why the chopper was there then highway to edmonton was closed off n then all these cops did a u-turn and the chopper started coming down really close to something
but never saw the truck till it hit those spikes
cops were rolling those up as i drove past them
my cousin has some videos on his bb bold from this but dont think its good footage will post in a day or two

[zipdoa]

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/article/965/965851/the-fast-and-the-furious-limited-edition-dvd-reviews-20090324032057807-000.jpg

[CUG]

http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2009/06/release.20090626_150712_21527_0

Ryan Joseph LAVECK, 28, of Calgary, has been charged with
failure to stop for police, theft over $5,000 and dangerous
operation of a motor vehicle.


Busted.

[grwnded]

Originally posted by Isaiah
Every time I've seen a pursuit on TV I've wondered why they don't go into a crowded mall to elude the cops. It's a wonder they don't do it more often.



this

[Cos]

They get most of em eventually anyways.

All you armchair cops (not saying I am not ;)), look at the situation. Someone committed a crime, police got involved, no one was hurt, they arrested him. It just wasnt all hollywood which I am sure is what some people wanted to see.

[grwnded]

i was heading north on qe II when i saw Hawks following that guy southbound. now that i think of it, if they did try a p.i.t. manuver or something other than standing down, there could have been a remote chance that the truck could have been spun out and sent across the median and ended up directly in front of me. i was travelling at my customary 120 ish so...not good result.

looking back, i'm actually a little glad that the fuzz stayed back.

although when i first clicked on this thread i was thinking about how stupid the cops were and now i just feel sorry for their bad carreer choices

[CUG]

Originally posted by grwnded
how stupid the cops were and now i just feel sorry for their bad carreer choices I'm sure quite a few of them outpace your earnings by a decent margin. That's an especially funny quote if you're a field oil and gas guy who spends 9 months of the year in the bush.

[kaput]

.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by CUG
I'm sure quite a few of them outpace your earnings by a decent margin. That's an especially funny quote if you're a field oil and gas guy who spends 9 months of the year in the bush.

Never mind the fact we have barely past high school, we do pretty good.

edit....damn phone autocomplete

[JustGo]

Good old LAVECK... I think I remember seeing his release bulletin saying he was a high risk to re-offend in this manner.

Seems like the only people who are realistic about the risk of these guys is the police. The legal system just keeps pumping them back out, either believing they are rehabilitated, or just wanting to have something else to do in a month when these guys come back.

I think they are just trying to keep their jobs. The more criminals they release, the more criminals come right back. It's a wonderful cycle of legal system employment.

[CUG]

Originally posted by DayGlow


Never mind the fact we have barely past high school, we so pretty good. I just noticed your 105% user rating.

[grwnded]

-double post

[grwnded]

[Originally posted by CUG


I'm sure quite a few of them outpace your earnings by a decent margin. That's an especially funny quote if you're a field oil and gas guy who spends 9 months of the year in the bush.



i was actually referring to them having a job that is unrespected and underpaid considering they have to carry a gun to work and they run an honest risk of beig shot or killed on a daily basis.

and no, i don't work on some oil rig in the bush, i'm a rep in the constructuion industry. the only danger i face is golf related

[atomic]

i thought the CPS was only trained to give out driving tickets? :dunno: