Anyone with a small 4cyl new car want to try before you buy electric supercharger?

[gamman]

We are in the process of creating a low boost, low cost, electronic supercharger. We are not quite in business yet, but are looking for another car or two before we go to full launch/business mode.

For anyone paying attention, we were at driven.

Our system is a full throttle compressor and as such is only on part time. It uses the cold side of a turbo and as such is a centrifugal supercharger, however it is not on all the time, so it's not really a supercharger as known to most people. We call it a full throttle compressor system. On our dyno proven city golf package 2.0 engine (115hp/92whp) gets 114whp for a difference of 22hp.

We are looking for someone with a under 200hp cars, and preferably under 150hp willing to lend their car to help develop a kit for their make or, do the same and buy it from us. Here's whatvwe will do, fit it on your car, wire it up, put on a Wideband to ensure engine safety, strategy boost slowly. Dyno it, let you drive it for a week. If you don't like it, we will refund your money. If you are just lending us your car, we will give it back with an o2 bung and maybe some cash.
2.5slow engined rabbit or golf or 2010 and older jetta.
2009+ Honda fit
2006+ Honda civic
Mazda 2 or mazda3
Ford Fiesta/focus/festiva
Toyota rav4/yaris/echo/matrix/corolla
Etc

[JZS_147]

I'd be willing to try spooling my big turbo faster with it :D

[gamman]

We will be working on one, but for now we have to pass.

[ercchry]

"oh hai, let us void your warranties preaase, thank you"

thats all i read.

you dont even give a free product... you "might" give "some" cash, who the hell is going to give you a brand new car to blow up for free??!?! :nut: :banghead:

[black300]

You might get some old civics that are worthless.

[HomespunLobster]

Well if you want to try it on my 96 Nissan pickup with 3l v6 id be glad to see what 20hp will do!

[gamman]

Hey mustang drifter guy, you got passed last year (albeit you were drifting on the track), by a civic or white golf with it on. I saw you so many times drifting (it kind of freaked me out at first).

Are you going to be at xiron mills? Please hold the speculation until you see it in person. It made a 20kphr difference on the front straight with it on.

We have dynoed 5 different cars. And our golf over 5 times alone. All show results. None "blew up the engine". Yes, warantee could be void. It takes about an hour to put on. With my Subaru, as soon as I put on my Subaru performance exhaust, warantee was suspect. If anything happens to the engine, we would replace it.

I guess I shouldn't open a business and try to help the local tuning community with a made in Calgary product that no one in the world is offering (that i am aware of). I really shouldn't have started this thread without our website up and running. It will answer a lot of questions.

If anyone wants to come for a drive in a fully operational one, come out to xiron mills autox on sunday. We have 3 more seats, but only one or two extra helmets.

Gerry

[ercchry]

Originally posted by gamman
Hey mustang drifter guy, you got passed last year (albeit you were drifting on the track), by a civic or white golf with it on. I saw you so many times drifting (it kind of freaked me out at first).


at my track day? cause you should have only been passing on the front straight, where i was passed a lot since the car is governed to 180 :cry:

but that doesnt matter at all to the point i was making. it could make 1000hp but you are still causing people additional expenses to be your guinea pig. not even offering a free product? please. and just cause car abc didnt blow up doesnt mean car xyz wont

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by gamman


I guess I shouldn't open a business and try to help the local tuning community with a made in Calgary product that no one in the world is offering (that i am aware of).

Gerry

Well I hate to break it to you.. but we all know about "Electric Superchargers" - such as the hundreds of Ebay competition for your product. This is nothing new, and a few of us can say without a doubt - that they dont work.

Sorry. :dunno:

[Toma]

Originally posted by Tarrantula


Well I hate to break it to you.. but we all know about "Electric Superchargers" - such as the hundreds of Ebay competition for your product. This is nothing new, and a few of us can say without a doubt - that they dont work.

Sorry. :dunno:

Maybe you should read my other post in the electric turbo thread.

He is trying to do it in such a way that it probably will work to some degree.

[A790]

Before we flame him to death we should at least consider what he's offering. Maybe there's something genuine here that's worth investigating.

[gretz]

Why does it have to be a new car? I would assume most people interested in this will have an older / tuner car > will it not work with older birds? I know I wouldn't mind waking up my DD...

I would drop off my GSR DD > if it works as well as you believe it will, it may be worth a shot > what is the estimated cost on these? Do you tune by adjusting timing? Do you monitor duty cycle?

[slammedfc]

what about an 02 civic?

[bourge73]

I would consider my gfs 06 Civic no warranty on it anyways, and if it blows up you'll pay for it? and no, I wont be paying any $$ for you to use it, that make no sense ?

[texasnick]

What sized compressor would this be using?

This will help everyone get a better idea about what vehicles/engines it should work best with.

Good luck with this. Of course I'm skeptical (as is everyone), but I could see this as potentially viable considering it is only a WOT application.

[Revhard]

Why are you asking for under 200 hp, or even 150hp?
Just curious. We spoke on the phone last year I think about this product.
My little old 2004 rsx would be a great test bed....

[hurrdurr]

I have an 08XB and would be willing to entertain this idea.

Stipulations:

You Break, You Buy
Not paying a penny out of pocket.
Nudes of your individual wives/girlfriends/moms/sisters (negotiable)

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

How about a 190HP Straight Six Jeep!

[gamman]

We are in the process of trying to fit it on as many vehicles as we can before we launch. So far to date it has been on a lot of vehicles, but to make a kit available for sale for a vehicle with every part takes a lot of time.

We will be selling DIY kits for those who can tune it themselves, or take it to Toma and get it installed and tuned.

For those that noticed, you will see that most of the cars I asked for are MAF based. This means that the stock system riches up the fuel ratios as more air goes by the sensor. All on its own. Now in a case like the civic (remember I am not the technical part of the team), it required more fuel from the airfuel ratios. We were able to add a little fuel and got the ratios down into the 12's and 13's. Our dyno guy said that was okay, as we are only boosting 2-4 lbs. However it was a good example to show that not all maf based cars will work out of the box. Each and every car will require tuning and monitoring with a Wideband and tuning on a dyno, if it's not a kit we have tested.

Toma, we need to talk as we require some affordable ways to boost MAP based cars.

I just got a vr6 174 hp jetta, we will see how it does with that.

We have also just put it on a 4.3L chev truck. It's hilarious it starts at 4lbs at 2k revs, truck launches and then at 5k revs its down to zero psi. The truck is about 195hp (crank), stock. So we are almost where we thought we would be.

Some other vehicles we have put on and will sell a kit for soon:
BMW 318 e36
Mkiv vw 2.0 (2.slow) 1999.5-2004 (plus city golf/jetta)

Ones that need work before we release a kit, but have been on and working:
Toyota rav4 1999
Toyota yaris 2009
Toyota echo 2007?
2008 Honda civic
4.3 chev truck
2001 vw jetta vr6

This post was more of a post to find the people that saw us at driven show, or so that they could find us.

[HomespunLobster]

For the vehicles "put on and working" what sort of numbers are they showing for power increase?

[gamman]

Dyno tested at wheels:

Golf max gain
24hp (26%), 4100rpm
33ftlbs (33%) 2900 rpm
Peak
92 to 114hp at 5000rpm
100 to 131ftlbs 2700rpm
Average (across whole rev range)
21hp and 23% hp gain
26ftlbs and 26% ftlbs gain

BMW max gain
25hp (22%), 4300rpm
31ftlbs (30%) 3400 rpm
Peak
112 to 129hp at 6100rpm
103 to 127ftlbs 4500rpm
Average (across whole rev range)
19hp and 17% hp gain
23ftlbs and 22% ftlbs gain


Civic and echo were dyno'd using a different dyno and numbers aren't as easy to dissect as above. We see the charts are similar, and estimate similar improvements, but I don't have the dyno sheets with me right now, and I don't have the raw data to upload into excel._

We are dynoing the 195hp truck this week. Next week, will be doing our newest vr6.

Stay tuned.

Edit: max gain and peak number occur at different points.see Rpms of each. The peak hp numbers, are near previous peak. Everything with the boost comes on earlier, the boost pressure is dropping as cfm's and hp increase. Clear as mud?

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Toma


Maybe you should read my other post in the electric turbo thread.

He is trying to do it in such a way that it probably will work to some degree.

^Agreed, I've seen this product and it definitely isn't your CPU fan turbonator special, there is some serious engineering behind it, don't judge until you see it.

[kvg]

I might be interested on strapping one of these to my Versa. Need another tester?

[chowd3r]

Originally posted by gamman
Ones that need work before we release a kit, but have been on and working:

Toyota yaris 2009
Toyota echo 2007?



Interested in the numbers with the 1nz-fe.

[Sentry]

Saw this today on a Golf at the chinook meet. It was cool as hell.

http://i.imgur.com/rbBvS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8RdyH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hYF4H.jpg

[mugensix]

Lol! Thats sweet

[Ymerej472008]

Im curious as to what the quality of these things are? Any long term testing been done on any of the kits?

[Maxx Mazda]

I'll volunteer an S10 2.2L. Same GM 2.2 used in all the Cavaliers, sunfires, etc. very popular engine. I have access to HP Tuners for fuel management.

[ExtremeSi]

I may be interested in trying this on my Prelude. It has a H22 engine, very popular swap for many civics, etc.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
I'll volunteer an S10 2.2L. Same GM 2.2 used in all the Cavaliers, sunfires, etc. very popular engine. I have access to HP Tuners for fuel management.
Same. On my other truck (2.2L S10) I could use all the power I can get. Fucking christ that engine is gutless to be used in a truck. :thumbsdow

[Sentry]

I thought it was neat as hell seeing it. It is literally the cold side from a turbo, you can see the nipple for the wastegate is even still there, just capped off.

Guy said it cost him 1000 bucks. OBVIOUSLY not an option for those seeking real performance, but I think at that price it's really viable for dudes with new cars that have small engines and practically no power... I mean you can spend 1000 bucks on this and have an instant extra 20whp every time you floor it, or 1000 bucks on an intake, header, and exhaust and ignoring the obvious Honda K series which responds really well to those mods, maybe see 10whp on 99% of other little 4cyl cars. Be more fun to drive with too IMO.

[amear]

don't you have to be a forum sponsor to advertise your business on Beyond.ca?:confused:

[ddduke]

Originally posted by amear
don't you have to be a forum sponsor to advertise your business on Beyond.ca?:confused:

I don't think it's a business yet, but more of an experiment.

I have a 05 dodge ram with the 4.7 in it that I don't drive or care about that I'd be willing to try out. pm me if you're interested.

[slinkie]

Originally posted by Tarrantula


Well I hate to break it to you.. but we all know about "Electric Superchargers" - such as the hundreds of Ebay competition for your product. This is nothing new, and a few of us can say without a doubt - that they dont work.

Sorry. :dunno:

Hey, it beats the PC fan shoved into a stock intake snorkel that I saw on an AE86 forum.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Are you serious? wow. Yeah you can run some serious numbers with that set up :nut: Im sure you can gain drastic performance with a .2psi upgrade. :rolleyes:

[flipstah]

Interesting... I'd be keen on doing it but only on the final product with warranty.

I'm very risk-adverse.

Even though my SUV doesn't have warranty anymore, her I4 runs like a clean beast. :)

2004 Mitsubishi Outlander 4G69

[Kramerica]

Be interested to see if this actually works. I've got a 1984 Scirocco that would be perfect for this aside from the fact that it lacks a MAF (nice low compression engine with all of 90hp). Turbo kits run about $1000-1500 plus other supplies for the car but they're getting harder to find. Car is just sitting right now waiting for a 16v swap so if you did want to try it on it you're free to go ahead.

[Maxx Mazda]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M

Same. On my other truck (2.2L S10) I could use all the power I can get. Fucking christ that engine is gutless to be used in a truck. :thumbsdow

Tell me about it! With two dirtbikes in the back, WFO I can't maintain 105 up the Stoney trail hill. The engine is in good working order. I added a CAI and found it helped a bit, but it makes a lot of noise. My truck sounds like a speedboat now.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Mix a heavy duty capacitor with a larger motor, put a Y pipe with a flapper in it that allows air to pass freely when it is inactive and you have the potential for some real power gains instead of a novelty product. :thumbsup:

Not an expert but wouldn't that cause turbo lag? The only time the supercharger shouldn't be running is at idle/low speeds when a lot of power isn't needed anyways.

That being said I do agree that for now and the foreseeable future this will remain a novelty product, but I can see a huge application for this on hybrid sports cars like the Fisker, motor shuts off when not in use anways and you have a huge reserve of power that the supercharger can draw on when the motor does kick in. Whether or not this is viable/superior compared to a traditional turbocharger remains to be seen.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[gamman]

quote
However there is a technical problem t... 99% of the time when it is not operating, isn't the turbo restricting air flow?

...on an N/A engine, even the smallest obstruction in the intake can cause power loss, never mind an inactive turbo sitting in the middle of it. ... hurting your fuel economy and regular power ... unless you have a free flow bypass of some kind.
endquote

The compressor used is a larger than the corresponding turbo size. As such, it has the ability to outflow the throttle body to around 150cfm without a pressure drop, like a turbo.

When the engine is flowing more than 150cfm, the unit starts up, and then provides positive pressure, removing all restrictions. The unit is triggered by a NOS switch on the pedal. To be clear however, the unit turns on around 2200rpms and provides positive pressure all the way to redline, not just at the 150cfm example above. That is more of an illustration of when the unit becomes a restriction while not operational and freewheeling.

On the golf 2.0 (2.slow), a 115 crank hp vehicle, it is a minor restriction.

to deal with your second point, about a restriction hurting fuel economy and power. Less gas used, less power, better miles per gallon. As the unit nears redline, assuming unit is off, the computer monitors fuel delivered, the reduction in power is due to less fuel, due to less air being allowed into the engine. The computer will keep it at stoich, IE: keep the air and fuel in the same ratio. Less air than normal, less fuel too. Yes, less power, but that can be solved with the supercharger on, or a 10 minute intake tube swap.

If you check the FAQ's on our almost done website, you will see a better description.

www.prestigemotorworks.ca

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming.

[se7en]

couple interesting ideas I'd like to input...

-why not a way(proportionally) bigger electric motor on the back.

-larger turbo housing and wheels(less restriction and more power per psi)

-run at WOT with capacitors for max flow, But, here's the kicker, run a few volts through the electric motor to spin the wheel around enough to not create a restriction.

I also like the flapper valve setup not unlike the old mx-3 v6 used to run. Plenty of engines run variable intake runner lengths, why not plumb this "turbo" setup into the secondary runner...etc etc.

Someone should look at the insane technology that electric R/C cars have been running in their engines, and scale it up a bit.

I realize that pricing might start to surpass an actual turbo kit, but I'm sure longevity might be there. As well as simplicy to install as well.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
It shouldn't cause turbo lag, electric motors have 100% of their torque instantly...

most do, not all. Those that do are designed to do such, but typically connotate a big current spike at start up.

[Toma]

Finally saw this thing first hand tonight. Gotta admit, after seeing how compact everything was, I was skeptical.

But after the first run, this damn thing actually works. After a bunch of runs, it kept on working.

Put the dyno in "auto pilot mode" set it where it starts to record at 2500 and stop at 6000, and made numerous back to back runs. Even loaded it extra hard. Bone stock without the "blower" it made 96hp and repeated very well. After the install, it made 119.3, and the batteries lasted forever, after 4 15 second pulls, boost stayed consistent.

So on the Golf, it made 4.6 psi at 2500 and 2.5 psi at 6000 rpm.

roughly 30% gain in torque, and 25% gain in power. Seems a good bolt on solution for a street car.

http://www.dynomotive.ca/electric/electric_blower_golf.jpg

http://www.dynomotive.ca/electric/electric_boost_golf.jpg

[Sentry]

Pretty freaking cool eh

I peeked under the hood at a meet and was impressed.

[sr20s14zenki]

Neat. I gotta see this.

[Sentry]

What did it sound like? Little bit of boost noise plus electric motor whirring at high rpm?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Sentry
What did it sound like? Little bit of boost noise plus electric motor whirring at high rpm?

Honestly, can't say you can even hear it. At least not in the shop.

Why I was skeptical is the motor is way physically smaller than I imagined. It's like a DC brushless latest desing kinda deal. I dunno anything about them, but dayum. I think if the 50,000 rpm, 150 amps is accurate, at 24 volts, I think that's like 5hp!

[Maxx Mazda]

Is this the first time in history an electric supercharger has turned out to be legit?

[zieg]

Did you do any tuning along with it? What did the afr curve look like?

[A790]

WAT.

WAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN...

[Tik-Tok]

Pretty neat, but why lead acid batteries? Seems so old tech.

[Toma]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Did you do any tuning along with it? What did the afr curve look like?

No, they been driving it on the stock tune. At this low boost, it seems fine. It is a mass air flow car from factory so it does self compensate to some degree. It was quite rich up top, I imagine there would be some small gains with a tune.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma


No, they been driving it on the stock tune. At this low boost, it seems fine. It is a mass air flow car from factory so it does self compensate to some degree.

That's what I was thinking, it's pretty much just compensating for our altitude (plus a little)

[Toma]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Pretty neat, but why lead acid batteries? Seems so old tech.
They tried Lithium, can't remember what he said, but from what I have noticed on race cars where we use them is lithium is light, but does not have the reserve capacity or even "amp hours" of a lead acid.

[zieg]

Originally posted by Toma


No, they been driving it on the stock tune. At this low boost, it seems fine. It is a mass air flow car from factory so it does self compensate to some degree. It was quite rich up top, I imagine there would be some small gains with a tune.

Fair enough. My concern would have been that it might lean out up top, but I guess with such a low boost setup there should be enough headroom on the stock map and fuel system with most cars.. it'd be interested to see what happens on a slightly older car though.

[ExtremeSi]

Wow. This looks pretty impressive.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
Is this the first time in history an electric supercharger has turned out to be legit?

purpose built for drag but I believe it did work - Thomas Knight Electric Supercharger (https://www.google.ca/search?q=tomas+knight&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&gs_rn=12&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=thomas%20knight&cp=14&gs_id=9&xhr=t&q=thomas+knight+supercharger&es_nrs=true&pf=p&client=firefox-a&hs=UFF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&oq=thomas+knight+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46340616,d.cGE&fp=15f89e4f912e9757&biw=1280&bih=865)

[a social dsease]

Very cool, been following this since the first post and I'm really impressed that they've stuck with it and have been able to achieve good results. Looking forward to seeing more!

[gamman]

I am doing a z3 in james bond blue. We will see what that produces. Tuning is the big thing. While I have a air fuel gauge, a tune could help maybe with boosted timing set, and all that. That said other widebands have this going to 11.8 at redline.

Edit, tuning could help net more power but we have done 5th injectors with gas, and the numbers go from 14.7 to low 13s, so with stock computers, not sure how much power gets left on the table.

Anyone with an frs, rabbit, etc?? If your car is a stock computer, then you would need a maf sensor, or someone like toma who can make sure everything is safe.

Gerry

[BiG_BoI_LuDe]

pm'd

[fenton]

PM'd

[Vdubbin]

PM'd

[flipstah]

PM'd as well.