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Question for the experienced sparkies (electricians) - Click HERE for Original Thread

barmanjay
First of all,.. Are there any experienced and knowledgeable electricians on beyond?

Bunch of questions regarding moving a meter box and wire guage.

Additional notes:
- Inner city property with overhead power
- 100 yr old home with meter in the house.
Current meter is 100a, although main throw is 30a (looks to be 100 yrs old, located before the meter - yes it would be super easy to steal power)
Oldish panel after meter - 100a


So here is my situation, I have an old meter in my kitchen.

I've set up the new meter base (100a) on the outside of the house.
Conduit up the side right to where the line feeds into the original wires.

Now, I've already run 3ga wire up the conduit (2xblack and 1xwhite).

After I run the wires I took a look at the meter base and there is only 1 mounting spot for the black.
I've checked out all meter bases available at the local home depot (thinking i picked up the wrong one) and they are all the same.

For 100a service, is only 1 black wire required from the line in?

How does enmax attach 2x3ga blacks in one spot that looks just big enough for 1x3ga wire.

Or.... Did I go over kill and 6ga wire should be run down the conduit from the line in to the base?

Am I off my rocker thinking there should be 2xblacks and 1xwhite coming in?

Lastly, am I in over my head? (non-trades people need not answer)




Yes, I did bury a grounding plate 2' in the ground with 3ga ground wire running to the base.
Zero102
Sounds like you bought a single phase meter base to me :dunno:
barmanjay
Ok, I just re-read all the literature I've saved.

Seems I am ok with the 3x 3ga wire sizes and the meter box seems right.

My conventional brain of how the wires should be hooked up is wrong.
(thinking black on one side, white on the other)

The meter base does infact have 3 places to hook up the wires and a separate ground.

The blacks go on the outside connectors and the white goes in the middle.

Here is a pic (not of my actual meter base) of an example.

click for larger version
» Click image for larger version


I think I just needed to clear my mind a bit.
Zero102
Yeah sounds like you've got it nailed down now. Basically the neutral (which is also earthed very nearby) passes straight through and both lines are interrupted until the meter is fitted, so from left to right, line, neutral, line.

AFAIK #3 wire is fine for 100A service use even in conduit, and everything you are connecting it to should be sized for much bigger so you should have no problems with it fitting in terminals and such.

From the initial description it sounded like you had a single phase meter base, I was wondering just where the hell you found one of those in a retail store :nut:
barmanjay
I thought I had a single phase too.

Needed to let my head clear before looking at the meter again and the literature.

My mind was filled with the basic visual of an outlet.


Although, the meter that is currently in my kitchen i believe is a single phase.

Looks to be like an 8 ga line on it aswell. Go figure?

1 Blk + 1 wht in
1 Blk + 1 wht out



Time to finish up the rest of my electrical then hope for the city 'approval'.
colinderksen
you have single phase power. 2 hot leads and one ground lead. 120/240. Do you have a permit?
Zero102
Originally posted by colinderksen
you have single phase power. 2 hot leads and one ground lead. 120/240. Do you have a permit?



:facepalm:

Single phase is 1 hot + 1 grounded (or neutral if you prefer), he does not have single phase.

Enmax wouldn't be doing the service switchover if he didn't have a permit. Why did you even post?...

barmanjay
Originally posted by Zero102


:facepalm:

Single phase is 1 hot + 1 grounded (or neutral if you prefer), he does not have single phase.

Enmax wouldn't be doing the service switchover if he didn't have a permit. Why did you even post?...




Yup

Enmax won't even touch it until there is a green sticker from the city,.. Still lots more work for me to do on other places before I can do that.

Crazyjoker77
Originally posted by Zero102


:facepalm:

Single phase is 1 hot + 1 grounded (or neutral if you prefer), he does not have single phase.

Enmax wouldn't be doing the service switchover if he didn't have a permit. Why did you even post?...



He certainly does have single phase. Its a edison 3 wire circuit 120/240. 3 phase would be 120/208 (all 3 phase derivatives have to be 1.73 higher eg 277/480 347/600) as well 3 phase services have to have 3 hots and may contain a neutral (it wont if its fed from a delta/delta or wye/delta transformer)

Edison 3 wires circuits are 2 sine waves 180degrees apart where 3 phase is always 3 waves 120 degrees apart.

Zero102
Originally posted by Crazyjoker77


He certainly does have single phase. Its a edison 3 wire circuit 120/240. 3 phase would be 120/208 (all 3 phase derivatives have to be 1.73 higher eg 277/480 347/600) as well 3 phase services have to have 3 hots and may contain a neutral (it wont if its fed from a delta/delta or wye/delta transformer)

Edison 3 wires circuits are 2 sine waves 180degrees apart where 3 phase is always 3 waves 120 degrees apart.



I never said he has 3 phase power.

In a typical household supply there are 2 ungrounded conductors that are 180* out of phase. When one is +168V the other is -168V relative to ground. That is 2 phases not one. Lots of people call this single phase power but really it isn't. Single phase would be all ungrounded conductors rising and falling in time. If he had single phase 120/240 then one would 168V while the other was 376V relative to ground, and that is not what we have.

Crazyjoker77
Originally posted by Zero102


I never said he has 3 phase power.

In a typical household supply there are 2 ungrounded conductors that are 180* out of phase. When one is +168V the other is -168V relative to ground. That is 2 phases not one. Lots of people call this single phase power but really it isn't. Single phase would be all ungrounded conductors rising and falling in time. If he had single phase 120/240 then one would 168V while the other was 376V relative to ground, and that is not what we have.



again you are wrong it is still considered single phase. both sine waves DO NOT have to rise together but they both must cross 0 at the same time. Polarity are different between them but they are IN phase with each other.



where as 3phase there is actually a phase difference.



and a quote from basic 3 phase principles in 3rd year module to better word it.

"You may think think there are two 120v phases in a single-phase service, however there are not. the voltage of L1 to neutral is the voltage of only half of one winding and the voltage of neutral to L2 is the voltage of the other half of that single winding. The rise and fall of the sine wave values of voltage from L1 to Neutral occur at the same time as as the rise and fall of sine wave values of voltage from L2 to neutral. Their peak values can be different , but they are in phase (or in time)with each other. A two pole breaker can be connected to the two live conductors from that single transformer winding, but it is still a single phase, not a two phase, circuit.

This is a two phase waveform.


now please go hand in your ticket if you even have one.

Zero102
Wow, that got personal real fast :thumbsup:

The OP's issue has been solved and this thread is not only derailed but deteriorating quickly.
:closed:
m10-power
Originally posted by Zero102


:facepalm:

Single phase is 1 hot + 1 grounded (or neutral if you prefer), he does not have single phase.

Enmax wouldn't be doing the service switchover if he didn't have a permit. Why did you even post?...




Originally posted by Zero102
Wow, that got personal real fast :thumbsup:

The OP's issue has been solved and this thread is not only derailed but deteriorating quickly.
:closed:



Wow you certainly shouldnt be giving electrical wiring advice. Let me guess still in school?

Cos
.
HuMz
120/240 is definatley single phase still and barman your meter looks good. It is very easy to over think electrical.
C_Dave45
Wow. And I thought MY trade was complicated! All I have to worry about is "shiny side up". :thumbsup:
Cos
.
Cos
.
barmanjay
Well

This is interesting stuff, trying to understand the waves is surely confusing.



Here is a question then.

The existing meter is supplied with only 2 wires. The overhead lines: the third wire is taped off.

Is this still considered single phase? What would the wave look like?


Can't reverse the wires otherwise I blow the main fuse (screw in fuse).


Cos:

Im assuming I can do this under a homeowners permit, but this is the main and I definitely want an electrician to come and check it now.

As competent as I am with being handy and skillful, my knowledge is limited to reading material and no practical experience with power mains/meters.

Roughing in household wires, I feel I can do those blindfolded.
Cos
.
barmanjay
On the overhead coming into the house,..

It's one black taped off.

One black and neutral going in.

When we first moved in, there was no ground,.. I quickly added one, #6 to the water main.

And just recently added a grounding plate with #3, buried 2 feet under my addition.

I'm no dummy, but I'll be first to admit I don't know it all and am not afraid to ask for help.

On that note, are there any electricians on here willing to come over and check out my home?
barmanjay
All enmax requires is a green inspection sticker, spoke with them a couple times prior to starting this.
Cos
.
barmanjay
Thx for your input cos

I'm sure this will all work out in the end.

Just want to make sure I'm doing it right.


All my appliances are 120v

Gas dryer, gas stove.

Love gas!
black_shadow_18
do make sure you check with the city if they will issue a permit or inspect a service that a homeowner does. On their website it says it HAS to be a certified master electrician / contractor to modify / install a service entrance... just a heads up that you might have to hire someone to take over that "job" so you can get it legal...
barmanjay
Thx!

I'll be looking for an electrician.

If anyone knows a good one that can help me at this stage in the "job"

Please let me know.
colinderksen
Originally posted by Zero102


:facepalm:

Single phase is 1 hot + 1 grounded (or neutral if you prefer), he does not have single phase.



I did drink a lot of beer during my apprenticeship, but not enough to fuck up single phase. Now tell us how to wire up a crowfoot, just to make me smile.

Originally posted by Cos
Lol I like the way you typed it. Been to enough failed IC orders lately? haha



Not enough, "Fail to Retailer" makes me feel powerful. ha

Cos
.
colinderksen
It gets me laid.

Cos
.



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