We asked for it, and it is starting. Small diesels in full size trucks!

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


Id step it up to a 3/4 ton or 1 ton for the extra money myself personally.

That's what I'm starting to feel too. Not much benefit to stay in the 1/2 tonne class.

[ExtraSlow]

There are two big benefits to buying a half ton over the 3/4 or 1 ton class:
1) slightly narrower/smaller - This is only a concern for some people, like myself, who daily drive downtown.
2) lower cost to operate (better mileage, cheaper maintenance, cheaper parts, tires etc

Given the huge increase in capability of the half-ton trucks over the last five years, I think there is less and less reason for most of us non commercial drivers to drive anything rated higher.

[Unknown303]

But if I go to a 3/4 tonne Dodge I do get a SFA...

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Unknown303
But if I go to a 3/4 tonne Dodge I do get a SFA...

What's SFA?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


What's SFA?

Solid Front Axle

[ExtraSlow]

pretty sure the 3/4 tonne Fords have solid front axle as well.

Also, that's not a reall selling feature for the vast majority of people. handy if you plan on putting a locker in the front for some reason, but for on-road use, not a real plus.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


Just checked the Canadian Ram Truck website, its a $4500 price tag over the 5.7L V8.

:D

well, looks like I owe you a coffee and doughnut.

but this is really sad for the diesel.

The Ram 1500 earns its legendary reputation for capability because it never quits getting better. Completely new for 2014 is the 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 that makes Ram 1500 the industry’s only light duty diesel pickup. This exclusivity also comes with Best-in-Class3 torque of 420 lb-ft, towing up to 7,200 lbs (3,256 kg) and fuel economy31.

[Tik-Tok]

$4500 extra for less towing capacity?

Good job Chrysler Corp. :facepalm:

[Cos]

.

[Tik-Tok]

After more research, the max tow is actually 9200lbs. Much better, but still too pricey.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
After more research, the max tow is actually 9200lbs. Much better, but still too pricey.

Yeah the one claiming 7200 is a typo, it's supposed to be 9200 apparently. Which isn't bad...

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
After more research, the max tow is actually 9200lbs. Much better, but still too pricey.

Where did you find that? I took my quote right from the ramtrucks.ca website...I can't see them posting up a handicapped number...

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by spikers


Where did you find that? I took my quote right from the ramtrucks.ca website...I can't see them posting up a handicapped number...


Every site I've seen reviews on and videos of the truck they always seem to say 9200??

From the motor trend site they definte towing capacity of all three engines

While the EcoDiesel's 9200-pound max towing capacity outperforms the Pentastar's 7450-pound rating, it doesn't quite touch the 5.7-liter Hemi's 10,450-pound rating.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1309_2014_ram_1500_ecodiesel_first_drive/

[spikerS]

LOL, and now I find THIS on their website too....


With a towing capacity up to 10,450 lbs and payload up to 1,930 lbs, go ahead and put all your best behind you: your horse trailer, your vintage car, your trusted camper. The Ram 1500 offers comprehensive towing features such as the available ParkView® Rear Backup Camera10 with dynamic grid lines for perfect hitch/trailer alignment, available integrated Class IV hitch receiver, standard 4- and 7-pin wiring harness and the invaluable and standard Electronic Stability Control16 system with Trailer Sway Control. Top it off with the available integrated Trailer Brake Controller that lets you custom tune your Ram 1500 for complex trailers and you can easily go with the tow.

[Unknown303]

10,450 is the Hemi. FYI..

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Unknown303
10,450 is the Hemi. FYI..

Yeah, I just figured that out, it is kinda misleading on their site.

However, now, when I check out the ecodiesel on the site, it wont state the towing number...kinda odd.

[benyl]

Just more proof that the eco-diesel and the eco-boost are not competitors.

$4500? Are they nuts?

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by benyl
Just more proof that the eco-diesel and the eco-boost are not competitors.

$4500? Are they nuts?

By daily driving/towing with the ecodiesel vs a hemi, I'd make that difference up in under 4 years. Especially if I was planning on city driving the truck.

Edit-
And the hemi can't TOUCH 420lbft @ 2000rpm. The fuel savings while towing will be significant.

[benyl]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


By daily driving/towing with the ecodiesel vs a hemi, I'd make that difference up in under 4 years. Especially if I was planning on city driving the truck.

Edit-
And the hemi can't TOUCH 420lbft @ 2000rpm. The fuel savings while towing will be significant.

Did you add in the cost of Urea into you payback?

[corsvette]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


By daily driving/towing with the ecodiesel vs a hemi, I'd make that difference up in under 4 years. Especially if I was planning on city driving the truck.

Edit-
And the hemi can't TOUCH 420lbft @ 2000rpm. The fuel savings while towing will be significant.

While you might see 1-2 MPG empty and 4-6 MPG better while towing, even one SMALL repair on that diesel outside warranty is going to cost big $$$. Also, count on higher maintenence costs as oil changes are costly, fuel filters are required much more often and air filters tend to be more expensive. The Hemi can probably go 160,000 kms on just oil/filter changes, the Diesel reliability is one big question mark at this point.

I would lease one for a few years, maybe they will wind up selling in very small numbers much like the diesel Cherokees and be worth more on the used market than the residual.

I really don't see a high take rate on this diesel Ram.

[ExtraSlow]

I would love to see some payout calculations that take in account the higher maintenence costs and the higher upfront costs. nobody is arguing that the diesel engines aren't more enjoyable to tow with, but myself, I don't belive you can every pay it out in a non-commerical application, even if you tow every single weekend.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I would love to see some payout calculations that take in account the higher maintenence costs and the higher upfront costs. nobody is arguing that the diesel engines aren't more enjoyable to tow with, but myself, I don't belive you can every pay it out in a non-commerical application, even if you tow every single weekend.

I'm probably an exceptional circumstance, considering I typically budget for towing close to 30,000kms a year (towing the race car across the country will do that).

Still though, we are talking 28USmpg highway vs something like 21USmpg highway UNLOADED. That's a huge amount, and I expect while towing it will be the same if not greater percentage spread.

And urea isn't bad, especially if you buy large amounts. Plus the dodge's are setup to require a refill every 10,000kms.

The biggest question is the overall reliability of the VM 3.0L. If it IS reliable, it's been proven time and again that diesel maintenance really doesn't outstrip gas maintenance by that much unless you have a problematic engine. And it should also last much longer. The VM 3.0L gets pretty close to 25% better fuel economy than the hemi while being daily driven, let alone while towing. You should ask the TDi guys what they think about this discussion, everyone I know is making out like bandits in savings IF THEY DON'T HAVE RELIABILITY ISSUES.

[corsvette]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


I'm probably an exceptional circumstance, considering I typically budget for towing close to 30,000kms a year (towing the race car across the country will do that).

Still though, we are talking 28USmpg highway vs something like 21USmpg highway UNLOADED. That's a huge amount, and I expect while towing it will be the same if not greater percentage spread.

And urea isn't bad, especially if you buy large amounts. Plus the dodge's are setup to require a refill every 10,000kms.

The biggest question is the overall reliability of the VM 3.0L. If it IS reliable, it's been proven time and again that diesel maintenance really doesn't outstrip gas maintenance by that much unless you have a problematic engine. And it should also last much longer. The VM 3.0L gets pretty close to 25% better fuel economy than the hemi while being daily driven, let alone while towing. You should ask the TDi guys what they think about this discussion, everyone I know is making out like bandits in savings IF THEY DON'T HAVE RELIABILITY ISSUES.


Honestly, I think the days of reliable Diesels are long gone. The systems required to make them powerful and clean burning are extremely complicated.

Let's say the VM 3.0l needs injectors at 160,000 kms, fair to say as diesel injectors do in fact wear out, bank on about a 3-4,000$$ dollar job, add in EGR valves that could fail, Turbocharger, scr catalist system, urea injection....list goes on and on

With a diesel you can guarantee repairs to cost 3x what a gas engine will. and how complicated they are now I put no faith in long term reliability.

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I would love to see some payout calculations that take in account the higher maintenence costs and the higher upfront costs. nobody is arguing that the diesel engines aren't more enjoyable to tow with, but myself, I don't belive you can every pay it out in a non-commerical application, even if you tow every single weekend.

Not sure if this is relevant since this is about trucks but thought I would respond with my diesel car experience. My old 05 Passat TDI Wagon cost me 13 cents per km over 4 years and 70000kms. I did most of the work myself save for the timing belt. Replaced both front axles, but other than that just regular maintenance. Compare that to the same year Subaru Forester, smaller car but 4wd, owned for 12000kms and other then two oil changes did not do anything else. Cost me 13 cents per km as well. The difference in fuel burn alone made operating the forester more expensive in the long term, once you start to include maintenance items.
As for the difference in upfront costs I can't provide a fair example, but, I sold the passat for 5 grand less than what I paid for it, not bad for 4 years and 70000kms I think?

[ExtraSlow]

We'll have to wait and see how the smaller diesels in the half tons go. I know in one tonne trucks, the diesel engines is something like a $7000 option, plus each oil change is about $40 more, plus urea (DEF) and other items. That and the mileage isn't as good as some of the older diesels.

Agree that the VW diesels have been (and still are) an economical option.

[Thaco]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
We'll have to wait and see how the smaller diesels in the half tons go. I know in one tonne trucks, the diesel engines is something like a $7000 option, plus each oil change is about $40 more, plus urea (DEF) and other items. That and the mileage isn't as good as some of the older diesels.

Agree that the VW diesels have been (and still are) an economical option.

isn't a diesel oil change interval typically twice (or more) it's gas counterpart? so the oil change price thing is kind of irrelevant..

[ExtraSlow]

I looked it up for the Ford 6.7L powerstroke diesel vs the 6.2KL gasoline engine, and it's a little confusing. the Diesel uses an "intelligen oil life monitor" as the official guide. Seems the deisel guys get about 7500 miles usually when following that. the previous reccomendation for Ford Deisels was 5000 miles.

The 6.2L Gas folks have a "oil life minder" which must be somehow different, because Ford referrs to it differently. The manual states 7500 mile intervals.

In short, no difference in manufacturer reccomended intervals. Some diesel folks probably go to full syntheitc, and extend intervals, but that same technique can be used with gasoline engines as well.

[Thaco]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I looked it up for the Ford 6.7L powerstroke diesel vs the 6.2KL gasoline engine, and it's a little confusing. the Diesel uses an "intelligen oil life monitor" as the official guide. Seems the deisel guys get about 7500 miles usually when following that. the previous reccomendation for Ford Deisels was 5000 miles.

The 6.2L Gas folks have a "oil life minder" which must be somehow different, because Ford referrs to it differently. The manual states 7500 mile intervals.

In short, no difference in manufacturer reccomended intervals. Some diesel folks probably go to full syntheitc, and extend intervals, but that same technique can be used with gasoline engines as well. must have changed then, from what i remember the old stuff was 5k for gas and 12-15k for diesel...


Either way, i'd like a small pickup with a diesel, canyon with like 5k towing on a lil 4banger diesel, that'd be badass.

[Unknown303]

This Fiat diesel is supposed to have oil change intervals around 15,000 I believe.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Seems the deisel guys get about 7500 miles usually when following that. the previous reccomendation for Ford Deisels was 5000 miles.

The 6.2L Gas folks have a "oil life minder" which must be somehow different, because Ford referrs to it differently. The manual states 7500 mile intervals.

In short, no difference in manufacturer reccomended intervals.


You have to keep in mind though, that most diesel owners are treating their trucks differently. If you're buying a diesel for work, it's because you're towing a lot, and probably idling a lot too (The oil minder systems are the same by the way, just different verbiage for advertising).

Also, the previous recommended diesel change was 5000 miles, because the 6.4L had a really crappy regen system that allowed shitloads of diesel into the oil system. The new 6.7L has a much more efficient regen system, allowing more miles before oil change. The new 6.7L doesn't even have a factory recommended interval, because it's fully dependent on the oil minder.

[corsvette]

New diesel's should be running full synthetic. My powerstroke took 13 quarts, so 3x $39 for the oil, plus a motorcraft oil filter @ $26, so around $150 for a DIY oil change.

My cousin has a 2010 with a 6.4, his oil changes run about $250 at the shop (he don't get dirty) His last "full" service from Ford was oil/fuel/air filter all total $580.

I put no faith into these oil life monitors. I change every 8000 kms, cheap insurance for very expensive engines.

All told diesel trucks cost more to buy and operate. You will definitely get more $$$ at resale though.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by corsvette
New diesel's should be running full synthetic. My powerstroke took 13 quarts, so 3x $39 for the oil, plus a motorcraft oil filter @ $26, so around $150 for a DIY oil change.

My cousin has a 2010 with a 6.4, his oil changes run about $250 at the shop (he don't get dirty) His last "full" service from Ford was oil/fuel/air filter all total $580.

I put no faith into these oil life monitors. I change every 8000 kms, cheap insurance for very expensive engines.

All told diesel trucks cost more to buy and operate. You will definitely get more $$$ at resale though.

The GM diesel oil changes still start at $99.95+tax for basic oil at our dealer and full synthetic Shell Rotella starts at $194.95+tax. For comparison a 6.0L gas 3/4 or 1 ton oil change starts at $69.95 for semi synthetic and $119.95 for full synthetic.

[corsvette]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


The GM diesel oil changes still start at $99.95+tax for basic oil at our dealer and full synthetic Shell Rotella starts at $194.95+tax. For comparison a 6.0L gas 3/4 or 1 ton oil change starts at $69.95 for semi synthetic and $119.95 for full synthetic.

Makes sense, I think the Ford's hold a few more qt's than than the Dmax. Shell rotella sythetic is the only oil I would ever use in my Diesels.