Networking 101 Help

[BrknFngrs]

I'm looking for the best way to physically setup my home network which will include the following devices (I'm currently short two slots on my wireless router):
- Shaw Internet Modem
- Wireless Router
- NAS Box 1 (Hardwired, dual network ports)
- NAS Box 2 (Hardwired, dual network ports)
- Hardwired PC Media centre/Gaming Computer
- Hardwired Mac
- Various wireless devices, both Mac and PC

What I'm trying to achieve:
- Ensure that all of my Non-NAS devices can access the internet
- Maximize the file transfer speeds to and from my two NAS devices to my wired computers and have the ability to stream NAS media to wireless devices from the NAS's. Currently with all of my devices being gigabit I'm only seeing sustained file transfer speeds of ~16MB/sec, which seems low.
- Minimize streaming and transfer speed slowdowns associated with internet activity of other machines
- As little network administration or tweaking as neccesary and with the purchase of as little additional hardware as possible.

I believe I'll need a switch of some kind? I have a basic netgear gigabit switch already but it only has 6 ports I believe.

Is it as simple as Shaw Router --> Switch --> WiFi Router, NAS 1, NAS 2, PC, Mac?

[sputnik]

I would do this as the routers are going to have slower throughput than your switch and you should really keep your switch behind your firewall (which I am assuming is being handled by the WiFi router).

Shaw Router <-- WiFi Router <-- Switch <-- NAS 1, NAS 2, PC, Mac?

If you have dual NICs on the NAS devices you might want to see if they do LACP (802.3ad) which could allow you to bond the interfaces and potentially get more throughput on the NICs. You will also need a smarter than average switch that will allow you to configure the ports on that end.

A switch like this would suffice.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30082

That said. Most of the simple NAS (DLink grade stuff) is slow because of a lack of processing power on their drive controller and it is rarely a network issue.

[BrknFngrs]

Thanks for the input on that; hadn't considered the firewall issue. Your configuration about should give wireless access to my NAS media as well?

I'm not running crazy NAS units but they're on the upper end of consumer grade stuff; QNAP TS-439 ProII+ and TS-469L. You'd expect that they'd be able to push a sustained rate higher than the ~16MB/sec I'm seeing, no? Also worth noting, I see similar transfer rates between my PC (i7) and Mac (Core2Duo)

[Mitsu3000gt]

I am getting over 100 MB/s over my network with a Synology DS214 NAS and a Netgear R7000 router. No switches. I agree that 16 MB/s seems a bit slow.

[firebane]

Those are extremely slow speeds. What router are you curretly using?

[EK69]

why do you need a switch anyways?

shaw modem > router > hardwire the nas1, nas2, pc, mac ?
doesn't ur router have 4 LAN ports?

what router do you have?

[dollarbillz]

He Prob does have 4 lan port's but he wants to plug both dual nics in from the nas boxes so ShawModem->Router->2XNAS1 2xNAS2 -- > Switch ---> PC MAC

I Would Do this

ShawMODEM-->Router-->Switch--> 2X NAS1 2X NAS 2 Pc MAC

[BrknFngrs]

Correct on my wanting to use both ports of each NAS.

I believe the router I currently have is the Linksys E3200

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX33846

[macman64]

You don't need to be running both ports of your NAS this isn't your bottleneck. You can push roughly 110 MB/s through a single Ethernet line. I suspect your slow down is the NAS itself. LACP also doesn't speed up a single device talking with the NAS, only multiple. Start with was sputnik was saying for the network configuration. If possible also have shaw disable the routing features of the router and use it as a straight modem.

[firebane]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
Correct on my wanting to use both ports of each NAS.

I believe the router I currently have is the Linksys E3200

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX33846

Did you have Shaw disable the router functions on your modem?

[BrknFngrs]

I believe the router functions are disabled as it's not broadcasting a Wi-Fi signal but I'd have to confirm that. I'm having a hard time thinking the bottleneck is the NAS since I"m seeing similar speeds between my Mac and PC (both hardlined)

[firebane]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
I believe the router functions are disabled as it's not broadcasting a Wi-Fi signal but I'd have to confirm that. I'm having a hard time thinking the bottleneck is the NAS since I&quot;m seeing similar speeds between my Mac and PC (both hardlined)

Unless you specifically call Shaw the modem does double duty for the most part.

Regarding wireless that is something you or anyone can turn off in the modem.

Confirm with Shaw first if its in modem only mode or double duty. Then work on the rest of your network

[EK69]

if you do need to call shaw to confirm, the terminology is that you need the shaw modem to be in bridged mode as you have your own router that you want to use

which shaw modem is it?

if you plug in just :
shaw modem > router > 1 nas and 1 pc
what transfer speeds do you see then? (hardwire the nas and pc to the LAN ports on the router)

if you google "e3200 slow transfer" a bunch of stuff pops up about synology NAS and slow speeds... maybe its just time to upgrade the router?

maybe the nas device doesn't actually support 1gbit speeds? (even though its a gbit port, it could be maxing out anywhere above 100mbit...which would warrant a gbit port, but not give you gbit speeds)

16 x 8 = 128mbit

//edit
is your router firmware upgraded to the latest?

//edit2
did some more googling for "TS-439 transfer speed" and came up with a bunch more hits on slow transfer speeds. Apparently you need something called "trunking" in order to use both gbit ports (and apparently the ip address assigned to each gbit port should NOT be on the same subnet) but i have no idea wtf that is lol :nut: and the switch needs to support trunking as well, which im assuming yours does not?

i would just stick with 1 lan cable to 1 nas and plug in the nas and pc and see what happens

do you have some sort of port monitor interface like in this link that you can check as well? (to make sure its in 1gbit mode?)

http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=90461

[firebane]

Linksys routers have been crap lately which is why so m any people have been recommending Asus for. I've never had ANY luck with their E series.

Does your NAS not have a webpage that you can visit and see what the link speed is? Or perhaps your router can show you this? To ensure that the NAS units are running at gigabit and not slower.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but I have a quick question about the Shaw modems in and out of bridge mode, and it seems to be a good place to ask.

Outside of bridge mode, I get amazing speeds, full advertised bandwidth on downloads at newsgroups, and everything in my network is easily recognizable and connects with no effort. Couldn't be happier EXCEPT that I can't log in externally with anything.

With bridge mode activated, speedtest.net still shows I'm getting my advertised speeds, however my real download speeds plummet to below 1MB/s, Synology's own software can't even find my NAS, and everything is a disaster. I had them take my modem out of bridge mode, and everything magically worked perfectly again other than of course external log-ins.

The problem is that without bridge mode, I cannot log in externally to access files or my IP camera, because the Shaw router functions are blocking it.

Does anyone know why my download speeds and ability to see various devices on my own network are so royally fucked when Shaw bridges my modem, and work perfectly un-bridged? They tell me it is 100% for sure a problem on my end.

Set up is:

Shaw SMC modem -> R7000 router --> all connected devices.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Sorry for the slight hijack, but I have a quick question about the Shaw modems in and out of bridge mode, and it seems to be a good place to ask.

Outside of bridge mode, I get amazing speeds, full advertised bandwidth on downloads at newsgroups, and everything in my network is easily recognizable and connects with no effort. Couldn't be happier EXCEPT that I can't log in externally with anything.

With bridge mode activated, speedtest.net still shows I'm getting my advertised speeds, however my real download speeds plummet to below 1MB/s, Synology's own software can't even find my NAS, and everything is a disaster. I had them take my modem out of bridge mode, and everything magically worked perfectly again other than of course external log-ins.

The problem is that without bridge mode, I cannot log in externally to access files or my IP camera, because the Shaw router functions are blocking it.

Does anyone know why my download speeds and ability to see various devices on my own network are so royally fucked when Shaw bridges my modem? They tell me it is 100% for sure a problem on my end.

You ninja edit'd your post ... You will need to setup port forwarding to access ANY internal devices from outside your house.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by firebane


You ninja edit'd your post ... You will need to setup port forwarding to access ANY internal devices from outside your house.

I understand that, and when I set up port forwarding on the R7000 with the shaw modem bridged, the external access works perfectly. No issues with that specifically. The problem is in this configuration, my download speeds drop to below 1 MB/s and it can't recognize my NAS. My entire network is badly crippled in bridge mode.

What I am unable to do is get everything working properly, with my proper speeds, with the modem bridged. I can have either external access OR a perfectly functioning network with fast speeds. I am unable to get both, and it all has something to do with the bridge mode.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I understand that, and when I set up port forwarding on the R7000 with the shaw modem bridged, the external access works perfectly. No issues with that specifically. The problem is in this configuration, my download speeds drop to below 1 MB/s and it can't recognize my NAS. My entire network is badly crippled in bridge mode.

What I am unable to do is get everything working properly, with my proper speeds, with the modem bridged. I can have either external access OR a perfectly functioning network with fast speeds. I am unable to get both, and it all has something to do with the bridge mode.

This could simply be a issue simply with your router being retarded especially if everything works otherwise.

Checked for firmware upgrades and such?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by firebane


This could simply be a issue simply with your router being retarded especially if everything works otherwise.

Checked for firmware upgrades and such?

Yup, everything is up to date. The router is absolutely phenomenal in every aspect when used with the un-bridged shaw modem, I have zero complaints in that scenario. I changed it back because not being able to externally log-in is a minor inconvenience.

It's so weird, I have no idea what is going on. I've tried full factory resets of the router and my NAS after my modem was bridged, and it didn't solve anything.

[EK69]

take the router out of the picture for a test run in bridged mode (enable bridge mode via shaw, connect directly to the shaw modem, and try a download... obviously not speedtest.net since you said that works fine regardless)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by EK69
take the router out of the picture for a test run in bridged mode (enable bridge mode via shaw, connect directly to the shaw modem, and try a download... obviously not speedtest.net since you said that works fine regardless)

Yeah I think that is the next step, unfortunately. I'll have to wait until I have some time to call Shaw and play around on my end.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. It's definitely strange.

Could it be something to do with my IP address changing or anything?

[ipeefreely]

OP what cables are you using? If you're not using at least all CAT 5E or you have really long runs it could be as simple as that. I also like to manual set my adaptors to gigabit not auto.

Also cheap NAS have slow chipsets as mentioned so they won't put out max speed either but 16 is pretty slow.


Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Shaw SMC modem
Stop by Shaw and swap it for the Cisco. The SMC are known to be poo and the Cisco can bond more channels so it will handle congestion better and you'll be ready for future speed upgrades too.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by ipeefreely


Stop by Shaw and swap it for the Cisco. The SMC are known to be poo and the Cisco can bond more channels so it will handle congestion better and you'll be ready for future speed upgrades too.

Interesting. Will they just swap me no problem for free? My SMC is blazing fast and I have zero complaints provided I am not bridged.

[eblend]

Just get a nicer small business type switch and plug all your gear into that and don't even bother with using all the other ports on your router. Just plug in a single cable from your router into your switch to give you internet access and allow your WiFi devices to talk to your wired gear and you will be set as far as fast wired throughput. Router will only be used to get to the internet and for your wireless devices, everything else will live in the switch. Because you most likely only have one subnet no routing is necessary for communication inside your house and you will get fast wired speeds regardless of how slow your router may be.

You could also just get a cross over cable and plug it in between your nas and computer directly, set some static ips on the naps and the computer and try your file access, at this point all routing or switching bottlenecks are gone and you could easily determine if your nas is just slow or if its your network gear.

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Interesting. Will they just swap me no problem for free? My SMC is blazing fast and I have zero complaints provided I am not bridged.
Yup, I switched as soon as they were available.

I have the Cisco in bridge mode with an older router (Dlink 655) and I have no problems maxing out (13.x MB/s). :nut:

[BrknFngrs]

So bit of an update; I didn't have a chance to test all functionality last night but I did speak with Shaw and it turns out the modem wasn't in bridge mode. After that switch and setting my network up Shaw Modem-->Wifi Router--> Devices I'm getting speeds between my PC and Mac of 50MB/Sec and from my NAS to PC of 80MB/sec.

Much better, thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to tinker with adding a switch this weekend.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
So bit of an update; I didn't have a chance to test all functionality last night but I did speak with Shaw and it turns out the modem wasn't in bridge mode. After that switch and setting my network up Shaw Modem--&gt;Wifi Router--&gt; Devices I'm getting speeds between my PC and Mac of 50MB/Sec and from my NAS to PC of 80MB/sec.

Much better, thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to tinker with adding a switch this weekend.

How was your network laid out originally?

I don't see how switching your Shaw modem to bridge mode would make a difference on the inside of your network.

[firebane]

Originally posted by sputnik


How was your network laid out originally?

I don't see how switching your Shaw modem to bridge mode would make a difference on the inside of your network.

The router in Shaws modem blows goats and is absolute garbage.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by sputnik


How was your network laid out originally?

I don't see how switching your Shaw modem to bridge mode would make a difference on the inside of your network.

I was honestly a bit surprised by the impact that it had as well. The only change to my physical configuation was unplugging my PC to add NAS2 for it's initial setup/loading of data (didn't have time to add the switch last night)

Shaw did suggest that I power down all my network components while the bridging change was taking place; maybe it was a matter of everything needing to be reset? I'll post up additional details once I've had a chance to test all functionality and I've added the switch.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
So bit of an update; I didn't have a chance to test all functionality last night but I did speak with Shaw and it turns out the modem wasn't in bridge mode. After that switch and setting my network up Shaw Modem--&gt;Wifi Router--&gt; Devices I'm getting speeds between my PC and Mac of 50MB/Sec and from my NAS to PC of 80MB/sec.

Much better, thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to tinker with adding a switch this weekend.

I find it hilarious that bridge mode solved all your speed issues, yet completely ruins my network lol. Glad you got it sorted.

I also thought my modem was in bridge mode for several years, but it turns out ages ago when I called them to bridge it, they didn't, and I had simply assumed it was bridged all this time.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by firebane
The router in Shaws modem blows goats and is absolute garbage.

:facepalm: