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Zero102
08-21-2014, 02:46 PM
I am in the process of buying an older KZ750 , however this bike has been in storage for at least 10 years by the current owner, who bought it from the previous owner who was also storing the bike (possibly for many years). We don't have a direct connection to anybody who has actually registered the bike and it does require some work that I was planning to complete over the winter before it is roadworthy so I can't register it just yet.

What is the best way to find out if this bike is declared salvage or stolen from another province or if there are any old liens on it? Is CarProof any use for bikes this age?

We know it is originally from Ontario but don't know if it's ever been registered in Alberta. I cannot find any signs of damage on it and the mileage is also quite low (18000km for a 1982 bike) so I suspect the stories about it being stored extensively are true and I don't think it's been laid down or crashed.

My biggest worry is that it has a lien on it from the 80's and was put in storage to dodge debt collectors and that as soon as I register it somebody will show up to take it away.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

GQBalla
08-21-2014, 03:28 PM
go to the registry with the VIN and ask.

Masked Bandit
08-21-2014, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by GQBalla
go to the registry with the VIN and ask.

+1. They will run a VIN check for a few dollars and tell you some basic info. There won't be any real history per se, just whether or not you can register it, need an OOP inspection, etc..

firebane
08-21-2014, 03:42 PM
Depending on the age they may not find anything within the system at all. My bike being over 40 years old doesn't even show up in the system because it uses a outdated VIN style.

If you don't have any registration paperwork and only a bill of sale you'll have to go through an OOP inspection as well. And being a 1982 bike and in "storage" you will want to make sure you go over it with a fine tooth comb and ensure everything works just fine.

Zero102
08-21-2014, 03:45 PM
It just seems weird - like if I just went in with a bill of sale and insurance and said "register this bike" they could say "oh shit no, it's OOP and salvage!" and it would be free, but if I am not trying to register it I have to pay to find this out?


The bike is new enough to use the normal style VIN number but I also think there will be no records at all anywhere due to it's age making a traditional history check useless.

firebane, are you saying that if I can't prove it was registered I will have to do an OOP regardless of whether it actually needs one?

firebane
08-21-2014, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Zero102
It just seems weird - like if I just went in with a bill of sale and insurance and said "register this bike" they could say "oh shit no, it's OOP and salvage!" and it would be free, but if I am not trying to register it I have to pay to find this out?


The bike is new enough to use the normal style VIN number but I also think there will be no records at all anywhere due to it's age making a traditional history check useless.

firebane, are you saying that if I can't prove it was registered I will have to do an OOP regardless of whether it actually needs one?

Correct. If the registry can't find ANY history on the bike it will require a OOP inspection. Being that the bike is over 30 years old I'm going to say they probably won't.

This will determine how much you honestly want the bike and how much its worth to you. Things like brakes, lights, wiring, battery, bearings etc ALL will need to be checked. OOP for bikes can range from $120+ depending on the shop.

Mista Bob
08-21-2014, 03:54 PM
Really you should just avoid this bike altogether..... You don't even own the bike yet and it's already a headache.
If they couldn't be bothered to register the bike it's unlikely they bothered to store it properly and with no way of knowing how long its been sitting..... basically every single thing on the bike likely needs work done.

Most of the time bikes are kept in storage forever for a good reason, generally major engine issues.

firebane
08-21-2014, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Mista Bob
Really you should just avoid this bike altogether..... You don't even own the bike yet and it's already a headache.
If they couldn't be bothered to register the bike it's unlikely they bothered to store it properly and with no way of knowing how long its been sitting..... basically every single thing on the bike likely needs work done.

Most of the time bikes are kept in storage forever for a good reason, generally major engine issues.

My 74 KZ400 was stored for SEVERAL years probably in the 15-20 years and while its still not road worthy the engine is strong and runs with no issues.

Being a KZ750 there is a ton of aftermarket stuff and parts out there and if they are willing to do a bit of wrenching and work that bike could be very nice.

Graham_A_M
08-21-2014, 04:48 PM
One thing you REALLY have to worry about, when anything is left in storage, untouched and unused will be dried out seals, both in terms of the engine, and the suspension. My guess is, the fork seals are probably toast, and Id be quite worried some of the engine top end seals may be on their way out too. Older bikes are fine, just so long as they get ridden somewhat often. When their left to rot for decades at a time, that can lead to some serious issues when you go to fire them up for the first time since. Seals generally dont dry out, if they get a share of oil splashed on them from use, but when their exposed to the sun, and just dry out, they crack and break quite easily.

Ive been quite lucky on my old '82 Honda, it was sitting for 14 years before I got my hands on it, and it needed nothing, but I got lucky, most bikes sitting for that long, even inside will require some work to get them properly sorted.

firebane
08-21-2014, 05:16 PM
Yeah both carbs on my bike were totally gummed to hell. Front bearings were shot, front fork dust covers were shot, front brake was shot.

All small stuff and simple to fix but adds up.

Zero102
08-22-2014, 10:48 AM
The bike was stored for at least the last 10 years with a member of my extended family and is for sale by the owner who is a friend of his. The bike itself is $300 and has only 18000km on it. It ran "perfectly" (as heard by 3 family members but not by myself) before they took it in and was stored only for financial reasons. The electrics are all good and aside from a torn seat and cracked grips the bike is cosmetically above average.

I know the top end of the engine is going to require a reseal as the tach output seal and cam cover gasket are leaking. Gear shift lever seal and oil drain plug are also leaking. The carbs are almost certainly gummed up and the fuel tank has rust in it so that will need to be cleaned and sealed.

Fork seals seem to be leaving an excessive amount of oil on the forks but the shafts are not pitted so that should be a ~$25 repair with new fork oil.

I'm already expecting to do wheel bearings and rebuild the whole brake system (new front master, rebuild rear master, new rear master reservoir and rebuild all 3 calipers - lines look good with no rot) since the master cylinders are just full of chunks and not fluid.

The rear shocks are completely gone so I've budgeted for a new set of those as well. The tires, although uncracked and looking okay, are 11 years old so they'll be tossed just to be safe.

Considering all of that, the total for all of these parts including new tires installed on the wheels is right around $1100 shipped here. The seat is torn so that needs to be fixed but I'm not 100% sure what route I want to go with that so I'll tape it up and fix that later.

I am mechanically inclined and none of that work seems scary so I figure this is a chance to get a bike that is cool in an 80s kind of way and I can also be 100% certain is safe and reliable for under $1500. I've got all winter to do the repairs and an attached garage so time isn't really a factor. I don't have any safety gear yet anyway so I won't be riding this year.

firebane
08-22-2014, 11:50 AM
Sounds like you got a good project and with a shop that makes it even easier. The engine work wil be the hardest but everything else is easy. JUst make sure to bag and tag everything.

Oh and the most important thing do the headstock bearings and change them to roller bearings.

Git'er done and enjoy that bike once its complete.

Graham_A_M
08-22-2014, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Zero102
The bike was stored for at least the last 10 years with a member of my extended family and is for sale by the owner who is a friend of his. The bike itself is $300 and has only 18000km on it. It ran "perfectly" (as heard by 3 family members but not by myself) before they took it in and was stored only for financial reasons. The electrics are all good and aside from a torn seat and cracked grips the bike is cosmetically above average.

I know the top end of the engine is going to require a reseal as the tach output seal and cam cover gasket are leaking. Gear shift lever seal and oil drain plug are also leaking. The carbs are almost certainly gummed up and the fuel tank has rust in it so that will need to be cleaned and sealed.

Fork seals seem to be leaving an excessive amount of oil on the forks but the shafts are not pitted so that should be a ~$25 repair with new fork oil.

I'm already expecting to do wheel bearings and rebuild the whole brake system (new front master, rebuild rear master, new rear master reservoir and rebuild all 3 calipers - lines look good with no rot) since the master cylinders are just full of chunks and not fluid.

The rear shocks are completely gone so I've budgeted for a new set of those as well. The tires, although uncracked and looking okay, are 11 years old so they'll be tossed just to be safe.

Yeah I was expecting all that. Personally if the tires aren't dry rotted, I wouldn't toss them if the tread is good. There really isn't any reason to. Although do keep in mind, they'll likely be Bias plies, so dont be expecint "drag your knee" performance out of them either, but they'll do just fine for what your wanting them too.

Did you find a good resource for finding those seals? I doubt Kawi will still make them, or have any old stock left, but you can always look if there is any...

Zero102
08-22-2014, 06:33 PM
I'm planning to get most parts from z1 enterprises, though if you know anywhere local that is comparable in price I'm all ears. I'm on the fence about the tires, they have not been out in the weather but were in an unheated garage. They are still inflated but the bike hasn't even been rolled in years. I'll check them over before making a final decision. The only part i can't find is the tach seal, I don't have a plan there yet.

I'm hoping to pick it up Sunday, I might have the time to get it running this year before it gets too cold, we'll see how hard it is to clean the rust from the tank i guess

Graham_A_M
08-22-2014, 06:47 PM
^ Yeah, frick I used to know the tricks for getting the rust out of the tank, but Ive long since forgotten them.... I forget what chemicals & processes to use.... sorry... just drawing a blank now. The thing is with the tires? they'll have a flat spot for sitting for so long to be sure, but with a bit of use they'll straighten out and be fine...

firebane
08-22-2014, 08:03 PM
Z1 enterprises and ebay will be your best bet for 90% of the stuff your looking for. Don't even bother with local shops except for the smaller mechanical stuff you need.

Ebay will be cheaper even with shipping for most parts.

Oh and in case you didn't know this already... Try to find gas stations such as CoOp that doesn't use ethanol as ethanol will dry rot rubber seals and such so fast its crazy.

I put a new gas tank rubber seal on last year for my bike and less than a year it was dry rotted and cracked.

carson blocks
08-23-2014, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ Yeah, frick I used to know the tricks for getting the rust out of the tank, but Ive long since forgotten them.... I forget what chemicals & processes to use

If it's minor rust (just spotting), install a big clear inline fuel filter and keep an eye on it. If it's a little worse, use phosphoric acid based rust remover and if it's a lot worse use muriatic acid, but you just might find yourself with holes in the tank if it's bad. If it's flaking and needs mechanical de-rusting, you can put a handful of steel nuts or similar in and shake the hell out of it (don't shake while it's got any acid left in, ok?). Muriatic won't leave any coating and the metal will be very susceptible to future rusting so use a Kreem kit afterwards to treat and line the tank.

Check eBay for tanks too, the last tank that I did that acid technique on, welded some holes, repainted etc. I checked eBay afterwards and I could have got a decent used one for less than $100 IIRC.


Originally posted by Graham_A_M
.... sorry... just drawing a blank now. The thing is with the tires? they'll have a flat spot for sitting for so long to be sure, but with a bit of use they'll straighten out and be fine...

Just replace the tires.. I've been hoarding some brand new old stock tires for these bikes but I'll be recycling them shortly unless someone needs them for a period correct resto or something. Even though they've been stored properly and the tread is good, they're about as soft as hockey pucks and I personally wouldn't ride on them and can't give them away to be used on the road with a good conscience. Those sizes tend to be cheap, but watch where you get the tires as certain shops in town are stocking 5+ year old tires in the 'old' sizes.

Zero102
08-27-2014, 12:49 PM
I used acetone and carb cleaner - looks like almost everything in there was just varnish. There are some super tiny pin head sized rust spots in one section but they don't look to be flaking or anything and will be a pain to treat so I'm just going to keep the fuel topped up and leave them for now.

The fuel tap has a very fine screen on it so it should catch whatever might show up.

I will be replacing the tires. 11 years is just too old for me. I'll probably take it for a couple short test rides on them before I get around to replacing them but before I get at all serious about it those tires will go.

I'm just waiting on my first order from z1 enterprises so I can re-assemble the carbs and try starting this thing.

carson blocks
08-27-2014, 12:56 PM
I'd personally still use an inline filter as well. IMO the fuel tap mesh isn't fine enough to catch all debris that is big enough to cause carb problems. It's $5 universal part available anywhere and less than 5min to install. Also, when you do inevitably do get some dirty fuel or some junk from a jerry can or whatever, changing the inline filter is much cheaper and easier than going through the carbs again.

Zero102
08-27-2014, 01:09 PM
True. The bike has a 5/16" fuel line and all I could find were 1/4" filters the first time I looked.

I'll check around again since I am going to replace the fuel line anyway so it wouldn't matter much if I cut into it to install a filter.

Graham_A_M
08-27-2014, 01:27 PM
Shitty, I have about half a dozen 5/16" Fuel filters here at the farm with me....