2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GRAND PRIX (Suzuka)

[MGCM]

This is my all time favorite track from Forza, should be a great race. Dont forget guys, start times on TV are 11pm our time Thursday for practice, Friday for qualy, and Saturday for the race.

[Cos]

.

[diamondedge]

Hell yes! 130R flat out what!

[phreezee]

Hugo Boss just signed with Mercedes AMG Petronas.
Doesn't look like McLaren/Honda are announcing any drivers yet. http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/9497581/honda8217s-yasuhisa-arai-says-no-decision-has-been-made-mclarens-2015-line-up

First glimpse of the Honda power unit:

http://e1.365dm.com/14/10/660x350/f1-honda-power-unit_3211008.jpg

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/9497625/honda-have-revealed-the-first-image-of-the-powerunit-that-mclaren-will-use-in-2015

[rage2]

McLaren lost Hugo Boss??? Or is this a second signing? edit - Looks like McLaren lost Hugo Boss. :(

I don't even bother with the press photos of the power units. All 3 manufacturers were full of shit with their photos, and the units in the cars were completely different, particular Mercedes with their split turbo design.

[diamondedge]

Originally posted by rage2
McLaren lost Hugo Boss??? Or is this a second signing? edit - Looks like McLaren lost Hugo Boss. :(

I don't even bother with the press photos of the power units. All 3 manufacturers were full of shit with their photos, and the units in the cars were completely different, particular Mercedes with their split turbo design.

Yep. Imagine if it had red valve covers. :drool:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/uphond.jpg

[CapnCrunch]

Looks like they might be racing in a typhoon this year. They'll have to open up the DRS just to keep from being blown out of the pit box.

[rage2]

Not the first time it's happened. I think it was 04 when they cancelled qualifying, and ran qualifying Sunday morning and the race a few hrs after.

[Mibz]

Happened more recently than that, I think.

[MGCM]

typhoon :thumbsdow

[diamondedge]

Alonso rumours....omg. I want to know. Definitively!!

[chongkee_]

Originally posted by Mibz
Happened more recently than that, I think.

Ya I thought one of the qualifying sessions this season was postponed to Sunday. I tried looking it up but I can't find anything.

[rage2]

NBC Sports says it happened in 2010 as well. Weird that I remember 2004 and not 2010.

[DJ Lazy]

Christian Horner (in Singapore) - "We're closing the gap to the Mercs"

Mercedes AMG in Suzuka - 1.3s quicker than Vettel in FP2..


:rofl:

[phreezee]

Vettel is leaving RBR!

http://www.infiniti-redbullracing.com/article/new-team-driver-line-2015



NEW TEAM DRIVER LINE UP FOR 2015
October 4, 2014

Statement from The Team.

Sebastian Vettel has advised us that he will be leaving Infiniti Red Bull Racing at the end of the 2014 season.
We want to warmly thank Sebastian for the incredible role he has played at Infiniti Red Bull Racing for the last six years.
Since joining the team in 2009, Sebastian, together with Infiniti Red Bull Racing, has scored 38 wins, 44 poles and eight World Championships, including four Drivers' titles and four Constructors'. If you include Sebastian's success at Red Bull's second team, Scuderia Toro Rosso, the Red Bull total increases to 39 wins and 45 poles.
As we wish Sebastian well in the next stage of his career, we also look to the future with excitement, as the vacancy makes way for the next generation of Red Bull racers.
The Red Bull Junior Programme has developed some proven talents in recent times, including Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo, who has excelled in the RB10 and become a three-time Formula One race winner in his first season with the team.
We're pleased to announce that Daniel will be joined in the team for 2015 by another rising star from the Junior Programme, Daniil Kvyat.
Ends

[phreezee]

Things I'm realizing as the news sinks in:
1) This announcement rules out Alonso at RBR
2) Double Dan at RBR
3) JEV must be pissed LOL

[rage2]

If Vettel goes to McLaren, a significant life event is going to be added to my facebook profile.

[Sykes]

I do feel a little bad for JEV... That's a pretty clear message to him.

2015 is sizing up to look pretty awesome with the Alonso/Vettel moves and Honda comeback... :burnout:

[phreezee]

There's still hope that Vettel goes to Ferrari and Alonso to McLaren. :D

I'm scouring the interwebs for news right now, but only getting old articles.

[Cos]

.

[Sykes]

Originally posted by rage2
If Vettel goes to McLaren, a significant life event is going to be added to my facebook profile.

I would like this if there was a like button... :rofl:

[phreezee]

You're in luck Rage2, looks like Ferrari is Vettel's destination:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29487911


Fernando Alonso is to leave Ferrari at the end of the season and the team will replace him with four-time champion Sebastian Vettel.
Alonso still had two more years to run on his contract but he and Ferrari have agreed to separate. He is expected to join McLaren-Honda for 2015.
Red Bull announced on Saturday morning that Vettel had "advised them" he would be leaving them.
Team principal Christian Horner said Ferrari had made Vettel "a very attractive offer."

[diamondedge]

Awwwww yisssssss

[rage2]

Originally posted by phreezee
You're in luck Rage2, looks like Ferrari is Vettel's destination:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29487911


Anything happens in Grand Prix racing, and it usually does. - Murray Walker

[Cos]

.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by phreezee
You're in luck Rage2, looks like Ferrari is Vettel's destination:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29487911



NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :banghead: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Shit.
Fuck.

[phreezee]

Lewis hit the barrier in turn 1 in FP3. Hopefully everything is OK for Q1. All the news has got me pretty pumped for qualifying in 1 hours time.

[phreezee]

Marussia or Caterham?

YPQkYxxftfU

[MGCM]

well guys, are we in for a "race" behind the safety car?

[rage2]

Who knows. It didn't look too bad from the recent pics. Sauber tweeted that it stopped raining an hour ago.

[MGCM]

lol start behind safety car:nut:

[That.Guy.S30]

What the hell alonso

[phreezee]

I'm cheering for Jenson at this point as a podium could decide his future. Hopefully he can fend off the Red Bulls.

[rage2]

Hoping Bianci is OK.

After Sutil crash, Bianci went sideways into the crane. Not looking good right now. That's why SC finally went out and race red flag and ended.

[phreezee]

Eerie that Ted's qualifying notebook started with a shot of the ambulance helicopter and they debated it not being able to take off as a reason to start the race early. Hope he's ok.

[Sykes]

Bianchi has a serious head injury...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzLkZOjCAAAreCL.jpg

[01RedDX]

.

[Cos]

.

[MGCM]

o damn :( best wishes to any of his friends and family right now who could be watching all this unfold from the complete opposite side of the world

[Alak]

I watched the race live and was utterly exhausted when they called it. I pretty , much passed out before I heard anything about Bianchi. I thought it was just Sutil that had crashed as I made a wise crack about it not being Maldonado. I woke to my F1 app altering me to the news. Its a sad day in racing but I hope he makes a full recovery.



As soon as Vettel said he had 'quit', I knew he was going to move to Ferrari. I was hoping Alonso would stick around so there would be two teams with epic team battles. Could you imagine?? I cant wait for Kimi to retire and see who gets the other seat.

[kdwebber]

Charlie Whiting needs to resign. First Germany and now Japan. For the safety of the drivers this should be his last year.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Alak

As soon as Vettel said he had 'quit', I knew he was going to move to Ferrari. I was hoping Alonso would stick around so there would be two teams with epic team battles. Could you imagine?? I cant wait for Kimi to retire and see who gets the other seat.

I am pretty sure Vettel wouldnt sign with a team where there is potential for the secondary to be better than him. I think Riccardo's progress and RB's lack of team orders for him to stay behind are why he is leaving.

He wants to at least be able to blame the car if he loses ( which means he will probably get sacked from Ferrari sooner than later..)

I always thought Alonso was a great fit for Ferrari...

[CapnCrunch]

Am I reading these articles right? Vettel's getting paid around $70 million a year at Ferrari?

[Mibz]

Originally posted by kdwebber
Charlie Whiting needs to resign. First Germany and now Japan. For the safety of the drivers this should be his last year. Because Bianchi failed to slow down for a double-yellow and lost control? Was he even racing anybody when he went off?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Charlie's, but this isn't his fault.

EDIT: I just realized you might not be saying what I think you're saying. What happened in Germany that was similar to Japan?

[killramos]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
Am I reading these articles right? Vettel's getting paid around $70 million a year at Ferrari?

Well they do have a 250 $million budget lol

I see them imposing a strict no crashing policy to keep the team solvent :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mibz
EDIT: I just realized you might not be saying what I think you're saying. What happened in Germany that was similar to Japan?
I think Germany was definitely similar. Blind high speed corner, car recovery there without safety car. I think we were all screaming for a SC that race.

There is no doubt that there should've been a SC in Japan where Sutil gone off as it was a blind high speed corner. I remember saying how Button could win the race cuz he pitted anticipating the SC on full wets when nobody else did.

[rage2]

Vid of the Bianci crash. Jesus fucking Christ.

http://www.elmundo.es/deportes/2014/10/06/5432a34be2704e3d7a8b457b.html

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
Vid of the Bianci crash. Jesus fucking Christ.

http://www.elmundo.es/deportes/2014/10/06/5432a34be2704e3d7a8b457b.html

His head would have been straight into the tractor... How do you survive that?

If i were the marshalls i would have been damn angry about no SC there... They werent even looking at where Bianci was coming from :facepalm:

Damn lucky 1-2 of them didnt get sent to the hospital as well...

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by rage2
Vid of the Bianci crash. Jesus fucking Christ.

http://www.elmundo.es/deportes/2014/10/06/5432a34be2704e3d7a8b457b.html

I'm amazed he has a head for the hospital to operate on after seeing that... :eek: Scary stuff! :(

[rage2]

His steering wheel got sliced in half too. I too am shocked that's survivable. The tractor scalped the whole top half of the car off from the images I've seen floating around.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
His steering wheel got sliced in half too. I too am shocked that's survivable. The tractor scalped the whole top half of the car off from the images I've seen floating around.

I wouldn't call it survivable yet... guy might have a brainstem and nothing else...

[DJ Lazy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzLvE2XIIAEEFMQ.jpg:large

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/5/LiveLeak-dot-com-eb8_1412534291-0561eb85-949f-4f37-9724-df2cf9fb3f74_1412534465.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd6944b45ddd311a4&ec_rate=230

[01RedDX]

.

[rage2]

FOM is killing off every link to the video at a record pace. It's insane that when you buy a ticket, you lose the rights to every photo and video that you shoot at the event, and that it belongs to FOM.

[l/l/rX]

http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=b17_1412605388

Holy crap!!!!!!

edit: his head/ helmet hit the whole underside of the tractor! Damn, wishing him all the best!

[lilmira]

Yikes! The tractor jumped from the impact.

[01RedDX]

.

[DJ Lazy]

I didn't notice the slow-motion part till now... FUUUUUUUUUCK!

[triplep]

Jeez that was an insane impact. I was wondering why there was no reply of the crash on the TSN feed during the race.... this explains it.

[CapnCrunch]

His helmet looks reasonably intact from that angle. I would have guessed his neck would have been violently compressed though. I hope he recovers, I can't even believe he survived that crash though. :(

[killramos]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
His helmet looks reasonably intact from that angle. I would have guessed his neck would have been violently compressed though. I hope he recovers, I can't even believe he survived that crash though. :(

Yea it is shocking. I was expecting sheared off to be honest...

[H4LFY2nR]

gifs of the crash:

http://gfycat.com/HiddenSleepyIceblueredtopzebra

http://giant.gfycat.com/HiddenSleepyIceblueredtopzebra.gif

http://i.imgur.com/K0TJPf6.gif

It's amazing he's alive. I wonder if his anti-sub belts had enough slack/give that he got pushed down into the car without further neck/spinal injuries.

He's now had two surgeries and upgraded to critical but stable condition. I really hope he pulls through. He seemed like he had a great career ahead of him.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/28593/9504602/jules-bianchi-undergoes-surgery-in-hospital-after-suffering-severe-head-injuries

[cloud7]

Hopes the guy pulls through... it is a shocking crash as everyone that have seen the video have commented. F1 needs to look long and hard at how it recovers disabled vehicles.

[rage2]

There's nothing inherently wrong with how it recovers vehicles, and having tractors in front of crash barriers for short periods of time. Hell, even time of day had nothing to do with this crash. The 2 contributing factors is that the race director, CW, should have deployed a safety car, just like in Germany. Dunlop is a blind uphill corner, so as a driver you have no idea where the dangerous area of the track is on approach. You could be going 180km/h (slower than green), and if the shit was right on the edge of the track, you're going to approach the accident scene at a huge rate of speed.

Second, FIA needs to clamp down on drivers "slowing down" through yellows. Bianchi went through there at 220km/h the lap before the yellow, and went through there at 212km/h the lap of the yellow. This happens all the time, they let it go as long as your sector time isn't really a best sector and slower than the lap before, regardless of how miniscule.

I get that F1 doesn't want SC unless absolutely necessary as it interferes with the racing, but in this case, as well as Germany, there should've been a SC. It doesn't need to be as crazy as CART or NASCAR where every minor off means SC and it's a crapshoot on strategies. Just have to be smarter about risk assessment.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
There's nothing inherently wrong with how it recovers vehicles, and having tractors in front of crash barriers for short periods of time. Hell, even time of day had nothing to do with this crash. The 2 contributing factors is that the race director, CW, should have deployed a safety car, just like in Germany. Dunlop is a blind uphill corner, so as a driver you have no idea where the dangerous area of the track is on approach. You could be going 180km/h (slower than green), and if the shit was right on the edge of the track, you're going to approach the accident scene at a huge rate of speed.

Second, FIA needs to clamp down on drivers "slowing down" through yellows. Bianchi went through there at 220km/h the lap before the yellow, and went through there at 212km/h the lap of the yellow. This happens all the time, they let it go as long as your sector time isn't really a best sector and slower than the lap before, regardless of how miniscule.

I get that F1 doesn't want SC unless absolutely necessary as it interferes with the racing, but in this case, as well as Germany, there should've been a SC. It doesn't need to be as crazy as CART or NASCAR where every minor off means SC and it's a crapshoot on strategies. Just have to be smarter about risk assessment.

:werd:

You would have had to be getting a lapdance in your hotel room back in the city to not notice the glaring safety concerns at the time of Bianci's crash.

Speaking of which where was the safety director?

[phreezee]

Watching the full video again, it was double yellows while they were strapping up Sutil's car. As soon as the tractor was backing up they switch to a green flag, and you can see it clearly just before the impact.

[rage2]

Charlie Whiting would've been at Race Control. He made the call for SC after the Bianci accident, and made the call for red flag after realizing the severity.

Check out all of our comments in the German GP thread pointing out the huge mistake of not calling a SC.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/383695/2014-german-grand-prix/

And video of that incident:

103211250

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by Mibz
Because Bianchi failed to slow down for a double-yellow and lost control? Was he even racing anybody when he went off?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Charlie's, but this isn't his fault.

EDIT: I just realized you might not be saying what I think you're saying. What happened in Germany that was similar to Japan?

I should have been more clear. Charlie Whiting dropped the ball big time by not calling a SC in both Japan and Germany. Rage explained it better than I would have. Get well Jules.

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by rage2
Charlie Whiting would've been at Race Control. He made the call for SC after the Bianci accident, and made the call for red flag after realizing the severity

I find it hard to believe they saw that crash and didn't immediately realize how severe it was. Wasn't the medical car deployed the exact same time as the safety car?

EDIT: also want to say how insane it is that the British Grand Prix was red flagged to repair a barrier so off to the side and not even facing head on traffic. But a crash directly in the runoff of a turn in heavy rain didn't even warrant a safety car. If anything the safety car should've been called just so everybody pitted onto wets.

[H4LFY2nR]

In hindsight there should have been a SC in both Germany and Japan. Although IMO they shouldn't be relying on a person's judgement call in either case.

Until they change how they enforce slowing down, the drivers will always have a reason to just barley throttle lift through the yellows. They should have speed limits similar to the pit lane limiters between marshal stations or minimum sector times under yellow/double yellow with time penalties for those who don't comply.

Also, I'm surprised that the FIA hasn't mandated a maximum bumper height for all vehicles that could potentially be on track and in pit lane while they're live. There's so many regulations about the height of the impact absorbing structures of the car, of the circuit barriers, etc, I don't see why they can't mandate that all safety/support vehicles have bumpers that match the nose cone height. I though Maria de Villota's incident would have been enough of a wake up.

[cloud7]

Originally posted by H4LFY2nR

Also, I'm surprised that the FIA hasn't mandated a maximum bumper height for all vehicles that could potentially be on track and in pit lane while they're live. There's so many regulations about the height of the impact absorbing structures of the car, of the circuit barriers, etc, I don't see why they can't mandate that all safety/support vehicles have bumpers that match the nose cone height. I though Maria de Villota's incident would have been enough of a wake up.

Bingo! They can do all the crash testing they want on car-to-car, car-to-barrier simulated crash, it ain't gonna help the moment you have a tractor out there retrieving stranded race cars while they are flying by at speed less than 20 m away from you on a really wet track. Sutil ended up there is an indication that another car might end up there. This time, another car did follow. Leaving Sutil's car there would have been IMO safer for Bianchi to hit than the tractor that try to take his head off.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by Kramerica


I find it hard to believe they saw that crash and didn't immediately realize how severe it was. Wasn't the medical car deployed the exact same time as the safety car?

The safety car and medical car were dispatched FOR Bianchi... No safety car was dispatched for Sutil. That's why the Med car left at the same time...

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy


The safety car and medical car were dispatched FOR Bianchi... No safety car was dispatched for Sutil. That's why the Med car left at the same time...

My point is they instantly knew how severe the accident (bianchi) was (thus it not being shown on the live feed). The decision to red flag it later and not when the safety car was deployed is questionable as nothing had really changed from the deployment of the safety car in terms of it being way too wet to race and just shows how questionable old Charlie's decision making process is.

[MGCM]

anyone hear any updates yet?

edit: nevermind

[Mibz]

Originally posted by phreezee
Watching the full video again, it was double yellows while they were strapping up Sutil's car. As soon as the tractor was backing up they switch to a green flag, and you can see it clearly just before the impact. I'm pretty sure that green flag is for the next sector of the track. If there's at a crash at a flag station then only the previous flag guy will be waving yellows. The site of the crash will have a green to indicate the track afterwards is clear.

I'm really not sure anything needs to be done to prevent something like this happening again. Yes, somebody got seriously injured, but making rule changes to try and prevent a similar situation is a knee-jerk reaction.

It was not too wet to race, they hadn't even switched to extreme wets. The race could very easily have continued without a safety car. If CW had decided to red flag the race immediately after Bianchi's incident it would have been a potential overreaction and you guys would still be questioning it. He implemented a stop-gap measure to gauge the situation before deciding on something final like ending the race.

The only reason for a safety car after Sutil's crash would be, as rage2 mentioned, because Dunlop is a blind corner. Even then, it's not the FIA's fault that Bianchi didn't slow for the double-yellow. Sure, Sutil going off was an indication that another car could. He went off at race speed due to changing conditions. Race control did exactly what they should have done and threw up double yellows on that section of track. Sutil's car was about to be cleared within 2 laps of the incident and IMO that didn't require a safety car.

For the rest of the drivers, it's their responsibility to gauge their own capabilities in the changing conditions. If they go off on another part of the track, that's their own fault. If they go off in the double-yellow section because they were going full speed then, sorry, that's still their own fault. Nobody else went off at that corner, just the guy who didn't slow down, and you guys wanna blame race control for not preventing an incident?

This is a sad situation, no doubt about it and, as I said before, I don't think CW is flawless, but this feels like a Bettman-esque witch hunt. I strongly disagree that this is his fault or that he did anything questionable given the situation.

EDIT: He also wasn't racing anybody at the time. I understand that more strict yellow flag enforcement could have prevented this, but he was under no pressure to continue going as fast as he was.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Mibz
I'm pretty sure that green flag is for the next sector of the track. If there's at a crash at a flag station then only the previous flag guy will be waving yellows. The site of the crash will have a green to indicate the track afterwards is clear.


No, it was the same marshal waving the double yellows in the tower in the foreground of the incident, thus the track afterwards was not clear. I think he switched to green too early.

Edit: added a better video link

Before 0:59s of the video, double yellows, green at 1:00s, crash at 1:11s

http://vimeo.com/108126307

Edit: guy is waving green until around 2:30s when another marshal runs up the steps to tell him to switch back to yellow :banghead:

[Mibz]

Yup, you're right, good catch.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by phreezee
Watching the full video again, it was double yellows while they were strapping up Sutil's car. As soon as the tractor was backing up they switch to a green flag, and you can see it clearly just before the impact.

http://imgur.com/iaVdgT8

[CapnCrunch]

This article kind of echo's how I feel about the whole incident.

http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by MGCM
anyone hear any updates yet?

edit: nevermind

Latest Update

http://www.marussiaf1team.com/news/1035/

And in case like me, you have no idea what kind of injury that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury

:(

[phreezee]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


http://imgur.com/iaVdgT8

Exactly, and the flag post was in the foreground of the accident i.e. immediately following the flag post was where the accident was.

If your image explaining flags applied in this situation, why was the marshal switching from yellow to green, and back to yellow then?

Edit: Clicked the reddit discussion link on that imgur and lots of debate.

The F1 application never showed that sector as going green (not that it's authoritative). It shows that sector as yellow the whole time.
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30rmgp5&s=8#.VDP3RmddVvP

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
And in case like me, you have no idea what kind of injury that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury

:(

That sounds horrible!

After reading that... I doubt we'll ever see Jules behind the wheel of an F1 car again. (or any car for that matter). :(

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by phreezee


Exactly, and the flag post was in the foreground of the accident i.e. immediately following the flag post was where the accident was.

If your image explaining flags applied in this situation, why was the marshal switching from yellow to green, and back to yellow then?



I'm just guessing, but he probably switched to green as the tractor backed up and moved past his tower.

Regardless, he was under double yellow until he moved passed that tower. The fact that he had already lost control and crashed right in front of the tower seems to indicate he hadn't slowed enough under the double yellow from the previous flag position.

In case you didn't look at my other link, a double yellow means that workers may be on the track and you should be prepared to stop.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy


That sounds horrible!

After reading that... I doubt we'll ever see Jules behind the wheel of an F1 car again. (or any car for that matter). :(

No doubt. I was just reading that Ferrari was probably going to be giving him a drive in the next year or two as well. He had a bright future.

[killramos]

Unfortunately in these cases no news is not good news as if things don't get better quickly they likely wont... 2 days is a long time, Poor Jules...

[phreezee]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Regardless, he was under double yellow until he moved passed that tower. The fact that he had already lost control and crashed right in front of the tower seems to indicate he hadn't slowed enough under the double yellow from the previous flag position.

In case you didn't look at my other link, a double yellow means that workers may be on the track and you should be prepared to stop.

That's my point, he wasn't under double yellow at all, it was full green for 12 seconds when he lost control and crashed. It was green from 0:59-2:30s of the video, and the crash happens at 1:11s. I think the flag marshal could bare the blame here.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by phreezee


That's my point, he wasn't under double yellow at all, it was full green for 12 seconds when he lost control and crashed. It was green from 0:59-2:30s of the video, and the crash happens at 1:11s. I think the flag marshal could bare the blame here.

He wasn't under a green flag until he passed the guy waving the green flag. Unless you're telling me the guy at the previous flag location was waving green as well, but I haven't seen any video that shows where he was.

Take a look at this picture.

http://cdn-0.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/1700000/1770000/1771000/1771900/1771940/s8/f1-japanese-gp-2014-infographic-of-the-jules-bianchi-and-adrian-sutil-crash-site.jpg

[phreezee]

Sorry, Sector 7 was yellow, but the effect of seeing a green in front him could have lead Jules to hit the gas and start the slide. Just a theory really, it might have played a part in the accident, it might not have.

News is starting to question it too though.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/07/jules-bianchi-crash-video_n_5945362.html?

[phreezee]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Take a look at this picture.

http://cdn-0.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/1700000/1770000/1771000/1771900/1771940/s8/f1-japanese-gp-2014-infographic-of-the-jules-bianchi-and-adrian-sutil-crash-site.jpg

I did see this picture, and it seems to be wrong/old since the flag post is before the service road as seen in the video.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by phreezee
Sorry, Sector 7 was yellow, but the effect of seeing a green in front him could have lead Jules to hit the gas and start the slide. Just a theory really, it might have played a part in the accident, it might not have.

News is starting to question it too though.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/07/jules-bianchi-crash-video_n_5945362.html?

It very well could have. If you look at this video of the timing app, you can see that he's not the only one flying through the double yellows at well over 200kph.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30rmgp5&s=8#.VDQE0_ldVVb

A huge part of the problem is that there are no real set limits to adhere to during a double yellow. Watch out for people and be ready to stop doesn't translate into an exact speed limit.

Chilton flew through the double yellow hitting 230-240. Even after Bianchi crashed, guys were still going through that turn at well over 200.

[phreezee]

^ yeah I posted that link above lol. :D I agree with what you're saying.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by phreezee


I did see this picture, and it seems to be wrong/old since the flag post is before the service road as seen in the video.

Which video shows the flag post before the service road?

The flag post is slightly in front of the tractor, which is backing up onto the service road.

[phreezee]

You're right, I guess it was the weird camera angle.

[phreezee]

I guess I'm "mistaken" :)


Indeed, the green flag being waved from the marshal tower just after the incident scene is causing a great deal of controversy after the amateur footage emerged. But former driver Emanuele Pirro, who also serves as a driver steward for the FIA, says that it is "perfectly regular" for green flags to be waving at the very next marshal post after a caution zone -- even if this is just a meter away.

He told Autosprint that those who say otherwise are "mistaken.”

- See more at: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-battles-social-media-remove-julies-bianchi-crash-video?#sthash.SHgF6Tyn.dpuf

The video certainly has lead to a lot of discussion so not surprising officials are trying to get it removed.

[lilmira]

We need to hear more from the drivers and we probably will in time.
Did they all know exactly where the tractor was and drove through the section accordingly?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2783713/Fears-Jules-Bianchi-family-release-statement-confirming-suffered-diffuse-axonal-injury-horror-110mph-crash.html
That doesn't sound very good. :(

[diamondedge]

:( :(

Agreed w/ everyone here about bombing through double waved yellow sectors.

WEC does the pit-limiter slow zone thing. I think F1 needs to adopt something similar and enforce it. Then there is no incentive to bomb through the double waved sector to maintain gap to your rivals. Even if a marshal gets the flagging wrong briefly, race control can avoid that and ultimately decide. Could it be a safety issue if there is significant closing speed between sectors? Sure...find a way to deal with it.

[rage2]

The track workers usage of flags is just noise in this whole discussion. Each driver's steering wheel alerts them of yellow, SC, red situations as they enter the zones, as well delta times when the SC has been deployed. That started a few years ago, and is pretty much the standard way for drivers to be alerted of danger areas and target speed enforcement.

[phreezee]

I found this to be a good article and explaination:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/yes-a-green-flag-was-waving-but-know-the-whole-story/?



In an amateur video that's been making the rounds on social media, you can clearly see Jules Bianchi impact the tractor that was trying to carry Adrian Sutil's car away.

Another thing you see is a man in the marshal's post, waving a green flag as the crash happens and then afterwards. Many people, including us momentarily, were baffled as to why this green flag was waving.

The marshal did nothing wrong, but the FIA did

On closer inspection of the video and FIA rulebook, it becomes clear. The marshal himself did nothing wrong. He followed the rules and did what was required of him. My problem is with the FIA themselves.

The man was waving double yellow flags when Sutil originally crashed, as instructed by race control. Once the tractor lifted the Sauber, it began to move back towards the opening in the wall. Once it moved past the marshal post, he immediately switched to a green flag, as per the regulations.

Why the rule is flawed

In laymen's terms, that green flag signifies to drivers that you may now accelerate at this point. First and foremost, that tractor was still mere feet away from the marshal's post when the flags were switched and was by no means in a safer location. A number of track workers walked with it, balancing the Sauber in the air with ropes. That area should have remained a yellow flag zone, despite it technically being beyond the accident scene. The zone directly before it was still yellow.

11 seconds after the green flag was displayed, Bianchi came upon the accident scene. Like Sutil, he lost the rear and aquaplaned off the circuit. Unlike Sutil, he tried to correct the car to the point where he overcorrected. The car was now heading across a soaking wet gravel trap, upwards of 130mph (210kph), before striking the tractor in a vicious impact that obliterated a good portion of the Marussia. You can see the video (but be warned, it may be upsetting to some) HERE.

Equipment/people on circuit should warrant a SC

Jules Bianchi now lays unconscious in a hospital, fighting for his life. Did this green flag have anything to do with Bianchi's crash? We can't honestly say but that's beside the point I'm trying to make. However, the flag means you can accelerate beyond this zone. Looking at the telemetry, Bianchi was already accelerating.

Regardless of what the rules say, that marshals post was way too close to the crash scene for the green flag to be shown. That tractor and those workers were still in a very dangerous situation. In my opinion, there should be a safety car in such a situation, but at the very least, do not withdraw the double yellows until everyone and everything is back safely behind those barriers.

A number of factors created Perfect Storm

Just look at the infographic. It shows how incredibly close the end of the yellow flag zone, the crash site, and the marshal post are. Where is the margin for error? There is none. This situation is like a plane crash though ... A number of factors led to the end result. However, the weather, Bianchi, the FIA rules, the position of the tractor, the diminishing light, and other unknowns created a 'perfect storm' of sorts.

If I could see this coming, why couldn't the FIA? ... Excerpt from my July story

Back in the German GP, Adrian Sutil spun and abandoned his car on the front stretch. Safety workers were sent out to push the car out of harms way and with no safety car intervention. I was stunned by that decision and I think what I said then still applies now...

Basing Safety on Probability

"They based their decision on probability. They based a decision that could put the lives of both track workers and racing drivers in jeopardy on the probability that something won't happen. You're just asking for trouble when you do stuff like that."

"We waited an hour to repair the barrier that Kimi Raikkonen struck at Silverstone. The chances of another car hitting that exact spot during that race again were slim to none, yet, officials chose to fix it regardless. There was far more risk of something catastrophic happening with the Sutil situation, but the same precautionary protocols were not employed this time around, which is quite perplexing."

"Tell me, what was the probability of those events unfolding the way they did? It was unlikely, but still possible, and it happened. Placing a decision that could have dire consequences cost two men their lives that day. Let me ask you this. What was the probability that track marshal Frederick Jansen van Vuuren would get run down by a car in the 1977 South African Grand Prix? What was the probability that his fire extinguisher would strike racer Tom Pryce in the head, killing him instantly as well?"

"Why then are we still doing the exact same thing 37 years after that tragic incident when there's a much safer option just the push of a button away? You are playing with fire FIA....and you're eventually going to get burned."

[Mibz]

I think the guy who wrote that is an idiot.

[Cos]

.