CT4WD Shut Down!?

[Sugarphreak]

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[msommers]

Fuck sakes. I just bought another 2 year membership in September.

[Sugarphreak]

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[egmilano]

does this mean no more 90's 4runner flyby's..

[Sentry]

Wow holy shit. At least they'll keep the forums up as an archive.

[Unknown303]

Wow that's pretty crazy. While never owning a Toyota they've always been a great group to tag along in a Jeep for a run and the community as a whole seemed really solid. It's a shame it's fallen apart.

[Sugarphreak]

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[firebane]

I have seen this time and time again when a forum starts getting to large. Its easier to just say fuck it and walk away then deal with all the crap properly and clean it up.

With that said yes it sucks I don't think there is enough of a community regarding off road groups in general and one less just makes it hurt everyone in th eend.

[spikerS]

so what is the TL;DR version, and why it is getting shut down?

I don't think I have even been on the site.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by msommers
Fuck sakes. I just bought another 2 year membership in September.
Talk to Nathan at the Gear Shop. He explicitly said he would take care of people who had bought memberships for the year. He's waiting to get a new phone system installed and is currently down to only one line, so try to go in or if you can't make it there easily email [email protected].


Originally posted by Sugarphreak


From the sounds of it there was a lot of drama between some of the members... kind of an OG vs Newbs thing. Lots of criticism about how they run the club that ranged from questionable financials of the club and gear shop, to rules being used to discriminate, to secret events that just the OG's would go on despite others paying in full for memberships.

I don't really know how much is truth or rumor, but seems it was a growing issue and Nathan finally just walked away.


I think shutting down the site is a bit of a knee jerk reaction personally, there was a huge number of people using it, most had no idea about these issues.
A couple of things...

CT4WD was a business, not a club. There were never any questionable financials, but some people had a hard on for "seeing the books". If you read all the posts in that thread it's pretty clear that Nathan was never lining his pockets with money running the association.

There were never any "secret events". Some of the guys who were part of the team - trail leaders, PATHS team, etc. - were also friends who hung out (well, they still do hang out) together. That includes stuff like going out together for dinner, grabbing some beers, and even camping or wheeling together. After one of those camping trips, pictures were posted on the forum and someone got all butthurt that they weren't invited or that an unofficial run post wasn't made. Oddly enough the same people complaining also went on "secret runs" where they didn't invite anyone else and posted pictures of the trips on the forum.

I never felt there was an OG vs Newb vibe. There were some people who did nothing other than criticize everything that CT4WD - and Nathan specifically - did. Some of us got tired of those people. I don't know if I'm an "OG" since I only joined a few years ago, but I made a lot of friends through CT4WD. Some of those friends were members before me, and some of them signed up in the last year.

As far as I'm concerned anything other than what was in Nathan's final post is rumour, speculation, and conjecture (even my post here). I'll bet some of the stuff you heard came from some of the people who were part of the reason Nathan shut it down. If you want the real reasons, read all the posts Nathan made in that final thread or talk to him in person.

http://www.ct4wd.com/forum/showthread.php?8769-The-End-of-CT4WD

[HuMz]

Too bad, the Calgary 4x4 community is disorganized as it is. There's enough yotas though that something else will replace it. Us Nissan use a sub forum on thenewx.org, they may have to do something similar.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Mibz]

Could probably open up a CT4WD section here, if for no other reason than giving people a place to plan the future. Guaranteed it would be up more quickly than your lame-o Fiesta club.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BokCh0y]

This is sad news for sure.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Why do you guys hate my Fiesta Club so much :rofl:


Calgary is almost in need of a non-brand specific club. So many people jump from Jeeps, to Hummer, to Land Rover, to Toyota, to Nissan... and everything in between. Really, once you have been around for like 10+ years you start caring more about the people who are driving the 4x4's than what ever brand it happens to be.

100% absolutely agree! The whole split of brands is just.. weird.

Its like any other hobby and passion and having everyone under one roof would be nice.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Why do you guys hate my Fiesta Club so much :rofl:


Calgary is almost in need of a non-brand specific club. So many people jump from Jeeps, to Hummer, to Land Rover, to Toyota, to Nissan... and everything in between. Really, once you have been around for like 10+ years you start caring more about the people who are driving the 4x4's than what ever brand it happens to be. Which is precisely why I'll hate any car you drive, regardless of make.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Calgary is almost in need of a non-brand specific club. So many people jump from Jeeps, to Hummer, to Land Rover, to Toyota, to Nissan... and everything in between. Really, once you have been around for like 10+ years you start caring more about the people who are driving the 4x4's than what ever brand it happens to be.
Might be one of those in the works... ;)

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Calgary is almost in need of a non-brand specific club. So many people jump from Jeeps, to Hummer, to Land Rover, to Toyota, to Nissan... and everything in between. Really, once you have been around for like 10+ years you start caring more about the people who are driving the 4x4's than what ever brand it happens to be.

Seems like it's about time we gave AlbertaOffroad a solid effort! I could use another moderator. ;) :poosie: :D

[interlude]

Sad to hear about CT4WD.

I also read the thread where shit went down. Looks likes bunch (well.. 2 trailer trash white guys) of keyboard cowboys ruined it for everybody.

[spikerS]

I tried to follow the link, but it wanted me to register and such, so I could not read anything.

[Sugarphreak]

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[FraserB]

Originally posted by interlude
Sad to hear about CT4WD.

I also read the thread where shit went down. Looks likes bunch (well.. 2 trailer trash white guys) of keyboard cowboys ruined it for everybody.

Link?

;)

[Sugarphreak]

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[CelicaST-162]

This came as a shock to a few of us, and for myself and a few other's we were pretty saddened from it. I can say for myself that I have met tons of great people from and outside the association who share the similar passion. Many of them have become friends, and other perks that came with it was enhanced driveability on and off the road. For myself, and many other's who can vouch... It's not about what you drive, it's about having the common interest of being out in the back country with your fourby whilst being responsible and respectful. I will keep my sticker, it reminds me of how I started and how far we've come from humble beginnings. I am very passionate about this hobby and I look forwards to meeting everyone that shares the same interest!


Keep the shiney side up!

Victor

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by CelicaST-162
This came as a shock to a few of us, and for myself and a few other's we were pretty saddened from it. I can say for myself that I have met tons of great people from and outside the association who share the similar passion. Many of them have become friends, and other perks that came with it was enhanced driveability on and off the road. For myself, and many other's who can vouch... It's not about what you drive, it's about having the common interest of being out in the back country with your fourby whilst being responsible and respectful. I will keep my sticker, it reminds me of how I started and how far we've come from humble beginnings. I am very passionate about this hobby and I look forwards to meeting everyone that shares the same interest!


Keep the shiney side up!

Victor
Well said. I'll be keeping my stickers on as well and will continue to wave at anyone else I see with one just like I always have.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

God damnit, right after I buy my T4R, it shuts down.

[CelicaST-162]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
God damnit, right after I buy my T4R, it shuts down.

What year 4Runner did you get?

[Rapier46]

This thread is silly.

1. Everyone will move on and still wheel.
2. I was with ct since 2010. Member 62 or 63.
3. Being called an OG is interesting. There were no "secret events". There were friends made in the association. We went out together. We did NOT BITCH when the "newbs" went out together and we weren't invited.
4. It's over so who gives a shit.

[Sugarphreak]

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[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by CelicaST-162


What year 4Runner did you get?

99 Limited. It's just supposed to be a beater w/ an auto, so it's not so brutal commuting downtown, but I love it more than I expected.

[master hec0]

Well this is some terrible news.
I owe those guys my left nut and then some. I doubt there will ever be a more helpful and humble 4x4 Club.

CT4WD you will be missed.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I started looking around... actually quite a bit of this type of stuff on there. I never noticed it before.

http://www.ct4wd.com/forum/showthread.php?7933-The-moderation-of-the-forum-good-or-bad

apparently a lot of this stuff I can't see as I am not a member.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by spikerS


apparently a lot of this stuff I can't see as I am not a member.

Only members can see the forum in general. Really it was a bunch of people complaining and the organizers justifying what was done.

[prae]

huh, that's too bad. I was member #18 on the forums but never got into the club that much. Nathan and the core team, at least in the early days when I hit a few meets, were the absolute best kind of people. Sad to see it end like this.

[mrsingh]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


99 Limited. It's just supposed to be a beater w/ an auto, so it's not so brutal commuting downtown, but I love it more than I expected.
:love:

Multi-mode 4WD for the win, do you have the E-locker?

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by mrsingh

:love:

Multi-mode 4WD for the win, do you have the E-locker?

Sure do, but I'm not sure when I would use it. I can't find too much info on the "grey wire delete", or whatever it is, so I'm assuming it's limited to <10kph as per the owners manual?

I promised myself I wouldn't mod it, and I won't lift it (because clearance in parkades downtown), but it has wrangler duratracs on it, and I'm doing the ISR mod.

[mrsingh]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
I promised myself I wouldn't mod it, and I won't lift it (because clearance in parkades downtown), but it has wrangler duratracs on it, and I'm doing the ISR mod.

Told myself the same thing, and now a year later I am currently pricing out lifts. Mine is the same year but is a SR5, I have actually looked into what it would take to swap the multi-mode in transfer case. It may be a project of mine in the future when I can locate all the parts (transfer case, knob, ECU, driveshaft).

Enjoy it!

[Adrenaline101]

The biggest kicker that so many people don't realize when they say "who gives a shit" is that you need organizations such as ct4wd and others so we can have a unified voice as offroaders in Alberta. It's like hunting, if nobody is using the land and speaking out about infringement and redesignation of land use then eventually we will have nowhere to go and only ourselves to blame.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Adrenaline101
The biggest kicker that so many people don't realize when they say &quot;who gives a shit&quot; is that you need organizations such as ct4wd and others so we can have a unified voice as offroaders in Alberta. It's like hunting, if nobody is using the land and speaking out about infringement and redesignation of land use then eventually we will have nowhere to go and only ourselves to blame.
Step up and start a new organization. Or talk to Nathan and see if he's willing to hand over the existing organization to someone else. We'll be more than happy to lend a helping hand, setup a subforum to sit beside the Fiesta forum. :)

There's no sense in complaining about it. No different than 12 years ago when abcars shut down for a few nights because the owner was pissed, and kick started us starting beyond.

[ercchry]

so hard to get forums off the ground now a days thanks to facebook groups... but i think we need to get this thing moving

http://albertaoffroad.com/forum/

[rage2]

Then start a facebook group haha. It can't be that hard. If you want it to happen, put some elbow grease into it and get things moving.

There's obviously a demand for a product, if anything, this is the best time to launch a replacement and build up members quickly.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by ercchry
so hard to get forums off the ground now a days thanks to facebook groups... but i think we need to get this thing moving

http://albertaoffroad.com/forum/

I couldn't agree more. ;)

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Unknown303


I couldn't agree more. ;)

you heard Rage! embrace facebook! :rofl:

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by ercchry
so hard to get forums off the ground now a days thanks to facebook groups... but i think we need to get this thing moving

http://albertaoffroad.com/forum/
I'd rather post on a forum than in a facebook group. The thing is you can't just put a forum up and wait for it to take off. When I went to your link it appeared as though there were only two posts in the last 8 months. People aren't going to sign up for a forum that looks dead. Just my opinion.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by BurningChrome

I'd rather post on a forum than in a facebook group. The thing is you can't just put a forum up and wait for it to take off. When I went to your link it appeared as though there were only two posts in the last 8 months. People aren't going to sign up for a forum that looks dead. Just my opinion.

me too... but yeah, this isnt my forum... and i agree. but in order for it to not look dead there needs to be a core group that actually uses it. catch 22

[Sugarphreak]

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[corsvette]

Originally posted by ercchry
so hard to get forums off the ground now a days thanks to facebook groups... but i think we need to get this thing moving

http://albertaoffroad.com/forum/

Signed up! Good luck with the site. :thumbsup:

[Unknown303]

That's my site I've been working on. But since my wife's had 2 kids since I've started it things have definitely been slow.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

To get it up and moving it probably needs a regular meet somewhere and some official trail runs

I couldn't agree more.

[Tarzan]

I enjoyed many years with CT4WD, met many friends and have great memories from all the various activities. We all knew that as this was Nathan's Association at any time if he decided to shut it down there was nothing anyone could do about it. I had mentioned that what if one day Nathan no longer wanted to run the Association there was no mechanism for it to carry on. Nathan did an amazing job with his Association and it's members all benefited from it. Nathan told me he did not want a traditional club as he did not want the politics that came with it ie people running for President and stuff. The politics of a club can be a pain but it also allows a group to grow, change or for lack of a better word live (and yes die). Nathan had always kept absolute control of his product known as CT4WD, I seriously doubt he would now hand over what he had built. I have been part of many clubs and Nathan's Association was one of the better and most interesting ones I can recall. The saddest part of all of this is despite CT4WD being owned by Nathan it belonged to all of us and with no notice or chance to save it it's been terminated.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Yeah I was saddened by that aspect of it too... it was way bigger than any one person IMO


On another sour note, the Canadian Hummer Club made an announcement that our forum will be shut down.



A lot of people don't realize how much it costs to run a forum (cost goes up with more traffic since it's based on bandwidth and storage space too). CT4WD never had ads or sponsors and it was free for anyone - even those non-paying members who used it to constantly trash Nathan and the Association. I sometimes wonder if those people go over to someone's house for dinner and spend the entire meal trashing their hosts.

[Unknown303]

Well I enjoy wasting my money hosting my forum currently. 2 years and <40 members :rofl:

[Tarzan]

The "books" or financials were private and only Nathan had the authority to release them which could be why people didn't realize how much the forum costs.


Originally posted by BurningChrome


A lot of people don't realize how much it costs to run a forum

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tarzan
The &quot;books&quot; or financials were private and only Nathan had the authority to release them which could be why people didn't realize how much the forum costs.



that is what kinda irks me. And I am saying this as an outsider. I was never a member there, nor did any trail runs with them. But who the hell are these people to ask to see "the books"?

He wasn't running a charity, he wasn't publicly traded...it was his company. You don't go to McDonalds and ask to see their books. Well, ok, with McDonalds you might, but you get my drift.

But hey, lets try a little experiment, shall we?

Hey Rage2, I want to see all financial accounting for Beyond Media Inc for the last 3 years.

[CA18-S13]

Originally posted by Tarzan
The &quot;books&quot; or financials were private and only Nathan had the authority to release them which could be why people didn't realize how much the forum costs.



Again with the fucking "books" Harry....

Want to know something? Nathan has lost money running the association, his own personal money. What the fuck have you contributed to it? Or anything for that matter?

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by spikerS


But who the hell are these people to ask to see &quot;the books&quot;?

That would be Tarzan. Still going on about it like a broken record too.

Here you go Harry, it was laid out for you in the final thread:



The Drama of CT4WD
When you do something different there will always be some sort of drama as it’s not the norm. Mostly because it’s not understood fully. I would say I’m not normal and I have never done normal. Therefore the Association wasn’t run like a normal one. This can be seen by the events, courses, trail runs abroad, the photographs and the videos. Make it awesome.. simple. Because it’s not the norm this is where there’s a lot of room for mis-interpretation. Why is it a business, it should be free, let’s see your financials, inner-circle, why don’t you camp in this location, why are the runs cancelled etc.


Yes it’s a business.. no it doesn’t make money and no my pockets are not getting lined. I put a total of $15k into the Association, $14k is what will be going back to me. I wasn’t paid anything. Only the instructor was paid for the day… this didn’t include me. Pockets were getting emptied more than anything else.


It if’s free… no one would take it seriously and therefore there’s no value and a hard earned dollar means more than monopoly money. Try playing monopoly with your own real money and real property see what your decision are like at the end of the day versus the board game. This is the same principal with the training. A person is more apt to pay attention when their money is on the line vs. free. Plus if you learned something at the end of the day that is going to save your 4WD or your life… it’s a small price to pay.


The financials will show a loss… It all went into events, raffles, training, materials, web hosting, URLS, trail projects… Still haven’t paid back the loan from me. The money that was loaned for people to complain about having a great time in the backcountry learning more about 4WD’ing, seeing incredible places, experience events, win raffles, listen to music, eat food, save huge at the dealership, share builds and meet friends…. those are the financials you’d like to look at… a large loan.

Here you go Harry, just for old times' sake...
http://blog.chron.com/weather/files/2013/06/brokenrecord.jpg
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/540/685/b1d.png

[interlude]

Originally posted by Tarzan
I enjoyed many years with CT4WD, met many friends and have great memories from all the various activities. We all knew that as this was Nathan's Association at any time if he decided to shut it down there was nothing anyone could do about it. I had mentioned that what if one day Nathan no longer wanted to run the Association there was no mechanism for it to carry on. Nathan did an amazing job with his Association and it's members all benefited from it. Nathan told me he did not want a traditional club as he did not want the politics that came with it ie people running for President and stuff. The politics of a club can be a pain but it also allows a group to grow, change or for lack of a better word live (and yes die). Nathan had always kept absolute control of his product known as CT4WD, I seriously doubt he would now hand over what he had built. I have been part of many clubs and Nathan's Association was one of the better and most interesting ones I can recall. The saddest part of all of this is despite CT4WD being owned by Nathan it belonged to all of us and with no notice or chance to save it it's been terminated.



Originally posted by Tarzan
The &quot;books&quot; or financials were private and only Nathan had the authority to release them which could be why people didn't realize how much the forum costs.




You know how I commented earlier that there were some asshole keyboard cowboys from CT4WD, you may not have been one of them (kind of) Tarzan. But you certainly contributed to the unnecessary drama at CT4WD. I took the course with you, you're such a cool dude IN PERSON. On the forums, you become this self righteous.. passive aggressive asshole/troll. Nathan doesn't need to show shit to anybody. I barely frequent the forums and the monthly runs. I've been on maybe 3-4 runs in the past 4 years. But as a "part-time" wheeler, I can tell that Nathan spends most of his time responding to stupid posts about how he runs his association. Many of the posts he responds to was yours actually.

If you think you know how to start, run and maintain a car/truck club. By all means, start one, I am interested to watch how it goes. If it works out.. good on you. But at the end of the day, you need to shut the fuck up about how other people run their business and how you should have been a given a heads up on the association closing. He doesn't owe you anything except a swift kick in the face.

You go on and on about how much experience you have wheeling, who am I to tell you what to do and how to wheel. Same shit, just my 0.02.

It's beyond.. you will need this Harry

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/alpine408/FlameSuit2.jpg

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by interlude

It's beyond.. you will need this Harry

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/alpine408/FlameSuit2.jpg
Wait, you mean I don't have to hold back like I did on CT? :D

I think your post pretty much nailed it.

[interlude]

Originally posted by BurningChrome

Wait, you mean I don't have to hold back like I did on CT? :D

I think your post pretty much nailed it.

hahaha.. nope.. I give props to all of you who kept your cool and didn't lose it on the forums. I know I would have.

Especially the dude who went on about being 6'4" and 300lbs and how nobody would say it to his face to a girl on the forum... get fucked buddy

Edit: Need to correct myself. Here was his post (part of his post) He didn't say 6'4" 300lbs.. but that was my perception about him when he posted his match.com profile


Originally posted by redsonja

I'm not a Sherrif not do I pretend to be one. If you approach people in a respectful way typically you can have a civil conversation. When you approach someone all high and mighty like a number of ppl's attitudes are around here than ya conflict will happen. That's when my physical presence allows someone like myself a bit more leeway because most ppl will think twice about lipping me off.

[Sugarphreak]

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[bulhas]

I was truly saddened when Nathan did shutdown, I did go quiet about a year, year and a half ago, as I took the Edmonton core and started our own thing

It really came down to a CYA policy for us, and properly insured ourselves incase something were to happen, In the north most of belong to multiple clubs and pay memberships to many of them, like NA4WDa. We did start our own forum which memberships pay for etc.... Im not here to harp, I caused my own set of drama, but man the site went downhill and strongly advised my core group to stay out it


Yup we have one who may have been at the heart of it, but I think it was big mis understanding at the end.




Cheers from teaoa.ca

[Rapier46]

Originally posted by interlude


hahaha.. nope.. I give props to all of you who kept your cool and didn't lose it on the forums. I know I would have.

Especially the dude who went on about being 6'4&quot; and 300lbs and how nobody would say it to his face to a girl on the forum... get fucked buddy

Edit: Need to correct myself. Here was his post (part of his post) He didn't say 6'4&quot; 300lbs.. but that was my perception about him when he posted his match.com profile



Ahhh yes...he was talking to me. That was stupid. And another story.


This thread is fun!!!!!!..!.!!!!!!..!.!.!.!!!!!

[interlude]

Originally posted by Rapier46


Ahhh yes...he was talking to me. That was stupid. And another story.


This thread is fun!!!!!!..!.!!!!!!..!.!.!.!!!!!

I thought he was talking to Dragonlady when they went back and forth.

I'm also surprised that Tarzan didn't respond yet.. he always has something to say.

[Sugarphreak]

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[firebane]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Did CT4WD do a toy drive at Christmas every year?


Just wondering if we should be trying to set something up here to fill in the gap

Whether to fill the gap or not why doesn't Beyond just do something like this regardless?

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Did CT4WD do a toy drive at Christmas every year?


Just wondering if we should be trying to set something up here to fill in the gap
The toy drive was originally organized by Four Wheel Stampeders, but they announced they'd be halting everything last year so CT4WD picked it up. We had always participated prior to that though. If you're thinking of putting something together the charities we donated to in the past were the Mustard Seed, Children's Hospital, and last year was the High River Toy Mountain. I'm sure there are plenty more out there too.

[That.Guy.S30]

I'm a member on there, didn't know till I saw this thread. The guys there were nice, even with my ricer-mode FJ.

How we runs his business is exactly it... His business, not anyone else's.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I read that the Jeep club is pulling out of the Toy Drive for the Childrens Hospital this year and instead looking at donating toys to a womens shelter

Yeah it sounds like CJA was told that the Toy Drive usually ends up with way more toys than they can use so they figure they'll redirect their charity efforts. Current suggestions are the women's shelter or the Veteran's Food Bank.

[BurningChrome]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Yeah it sounds like CJA was told that the Toy Drive usually ends up with way more toys than they can use so they figure they'll redirect their charity efforts. Current suggestions are the women's shelter or the Veteran's Food Bank.
Another idea is warm clothing donations to Project Warmth. I did a drive for that just before CT4WD shut down (in fact I collected the donations at the Peter's night where the announcement was made) and it was really easy. You can drop the donations off at any fire hall in the city and they take clothing for men, women, and kids.

http://www.projectwarmth.com/

[xterratitan]

One of the best of road.organizations I've ever seen. But full of whiny little bitchs. No wonder buddy shut it down.