Can anybody tell me what it's like working in IT?

[PreludeDudeReturns]

Networking specifically.

I will be attending SAIT in fall of 2015 and will be enrolled in the Network Systems Major. If anyone has completed this course, and is able to offer input on what it's like day to day working in the networking field that would be much appreciated.

Will I need certifications like CCNA and CCNP to gain employment? Is it a highly stressful career?

[Mibz]

The ITNS program will teach you everything you need to write your CCNA after 1 year and CCNP after the 2nd year. Both will get you interviews. Neither entitle you to a job. I strongly recommend you write them as soon as you're able, because if you don't use it, you lose it.

Like any education, you get out of it what you put into it. Some of my graduating class works helpdesk after 6 years, others switched industries entirely. Most of us (at least the ones I have on FB) have successful careers that we enjoy.

It's as stressful as you let it be.

[eblend]

Don't do it!

Seriously, if you have any other choice, do that haha.

I am in IT and have made a good career out of it, but it's a constant learning curve, you really never stop learning (unless you work in government or a consulting firm...and you have no ambition).

Also, as a personal opinion, if you are just getting into IT now at this point in your life and if it hasn't been your passion or interest from your childhood, than you will be behind the 8 ball in IT anyways as you can't really just do networking without knowing the basics of all computing. Personal opinion....seen enough "network specialists" who can't set a static IP in Windows...

[revelations]

^ agreed. If IT is a job, then you will be OK.

If IT is a hobby/ passion, you have the potential to be phenomenal. Contracting might be your end game too.

[nissanK]

Agreed, it can take you anywhere really my only advice is to not settle somewhere until you're happy. Get experience and use that to springboard to other companies/opportunities.

My background was the Information Systems program at SAIT (application programming and development). Once I graduated in 2009 (yay recession) I got a basic position at a contracting company as desktop support. Moved to another company doing the same thing but better chance for hire and advancement. Was in desktop support for about 4 years

Now I design meeting room AV for a major company downtown which includes AV programming. Just amazing the places it can take you OR suck you in if you give up being ambitious.

My major piece of advice, NEVER SETTLE until you're happy what you're doing.

[ZenOps]

There will probably be one last big tech push for Windows 10, and then most techies will be obsolete.

You used to be able to be an office hero if you could wipe out a virus from an email server or install a systemwide OS update overnight.

But once Windows 10 is installed and the initial shock is over, everything will be outsourced to the cloud. No more email server admins and fewer sysadmins.

Ahh well, it was fun while it lasted - The machine should be taking over soon.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by ZenOps
There will probably be one last big tech push for Windows 10, and then most techies will be obsolete... everything will be outsourced to the cloud. No more email server admins and fewer sysadmins.

While centralization of software to cloud providers will definitely keep moving some server admin jobs offshore, I believe that for the foreseeable future, many companies will choose to keep their servers in-house for various reasons. There are many types of servers that either wouldn't be possible, or wouldn't be desirable to move to the cloud. Also, even if your software is purchased as a service, there is still local IT infrastructure to be maintained.

To your point about software making tech jobs obsolete, I find the industry is actually making a swing to make tech jobs more 'techie'. On Server 2012 and other recent MS products, you need to understand powershell and do a fair amount of command line work, whereas back in the day, you could set up an Exchange 2003 email server with not much more than next>next>next.

[nzwasp]

I got into networking because I was good with computers when I was younger and in NZ where I came from IT is the highest paid industry. Here in Alberta I would say IT is nowhere close to being the highest paid or valued industry, and wished I was doing something more like engineering or even a tradesman.

In regards to the pay, don't expect to earn much working for a managed service company or a telecoms company. As soon as my wife is working again/economy recovering I think i'll be looking more towards contracting.

[cgyITguy]

Don't let all these guys dissuade you. If it's what you want to do, dedicate yourself to it and you will have a great career and make plenty of money. It can be stressful, it can have a sharp learning curve, it can take a few years of experience to get out of entry level roles. BUT that's just the same as any career really. Once you get in the 5 - 10 year experience range it's pretty awesome. There are tons of jobs available. Literally every company has an IT dept, either internal or external. Couldn't be happier with working in IT myself :thumbsup:

[SmAcKpOo]

IT has it's days. It really depends on where and who you work for as there are some absolutely awful companies to work for (consulting firms).

If your workload is project based (like mine) then downturns like this really suck as there is no cap ex for infrastructure.

You really have to adopt the motivation to continually learn and gain experience with new technologies. Once I made the move to corporate my base knowledge hasn't left me but acquiring new knowledge has stagnated. Luckily the industry isn't changing substantially right now in the SMB market (which Calgary primarily is).

[zipdoa]

Keep in mind that working a service desk sucks. I worked one for TELUS back when I was 19. I spent $20k at SAIT for a fast-track IT course, and now I work another service desk :rofl:

I am of a strong opinion that you can teach yourself everything you need for IT for pennies on the dollar. Between Youtube and other online resources, you can figure it all out.

I really regret going to SAIT!

[PreludeDudeReturns]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
Don't let all these guys dissuade you. If it's what you want to do, dedicate yourself to it and you will have a great career and make plenty of money. It can be stressful, it can have a sharp learning curve, it can take a few years of experience to get out of entry level roles. BUT that's just the same as any career really. Once you get in the 5 - 10 year experience range it's pretty awesome. There are tons of jobs available. Literally every company has an IT dept, either internal or external. Couldn't be happier with working in IT myself :thumbsup:

Thanks cgyITguy. I have seen your past posts about working in the IT field and found them the most reaffirming in the potential and possibilities of working in the field.

I'm just nervous because tbh, I am not an IT guy by heart. I'm not super techy either, but I am a firm believer that anybody can learn anything given the proper training and amount of time to adapt.

So you think that the SAIT IT program will be able to turn a rookie who knows very little like myself into a knowledgeable IT professional?

I feel like I'm starting to let self-doubt - questioning if I smart enough to do this - get the best of me.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns

I'm just nervous because tbh, I am not an IT guy by heart. I'm not super techy either, but I am a firm believer that anybody can learn anything given the proper training and amount of time to adapt.


You could learn it, but if it's not an interest or an area of natural aptitude, what is drawing you to IT? The first 5 years pay generally sucks, and if you don't have any interest or aptitude, I don' think you'd find the work rewarding, especially the entry level jobs.

I.T. has been good to me, but it was a hobby before a career and it's about the only thing I had a real aptitude for. Other than that, it's a crowded field with more shitty jobs than good ones. Why not look for something you're naturally interested in or good at?

[PreludeDudeReturns]

Originally posted by carson blocks


You could learn it, but if it's not an interest or an area of natural aptitude, what is drawing you to IT? The first 5 years pay generally sucks, and if you don't have any interest or aptitude, I don' think you'd find the work rewarding, especially the entry level jobs.

I.T. has been good to me, but it was a hobby before a career and it's about the only thing I had a real aptitude for. Other than that, it's a crowded field with more shitty jobs than good ones. Why not look for something you're naturally interested in or good at?

Well tbh, I don't really know what I am good at or what I want to do with my life. I'm 24 years old and still kind of clueless about a lot of things. I just want to be able to make enough to get out of living in the low-income class.

IT"s draw to me was that it's high-in-demand and has the potenital to pay quite well. I was hoping that it might just turn out to be something I actually enjoy and can do well in, but I am kind of having second thoughts.

I don't want to be second guessing myself. I would like to give it a try and hope for the best, but I also don't want to end up feeling like I made a major mistake either.

[2Legit2Quit]

School is going to teach/show you how to do this and where to go to do that in the short story, with IT a lot of it is experience as shit likes to break for no reason and as to why it broke will make no sense, only way to be able to sort shit out is having experienced it before or something similar, schooling giving you the backbone to be able to figure shit out and fix it.

Depending on what strong direction you want to go as there's so many different routes to go, sys admin, network design/admin, security, cloud, comms, etc, you just need to decide/figure out what suits you.

IT can be enjoyable if you find a proper career path and don't stay stuck doing desktop support for the rest of your life...no offense anyone who does desktop support. I have a love/hate relationship with IT but I can't see myself doing anything else for work as i do enjoy it (most of the time) and find it interesting/fun.

You mentioned CCNA and what not, good certs to have if you go the network route, depends on what your future employer uses for network hardware, granted most large companies do use cisco. typing in console all day shoop da woop. Depending on your position, yes it can be stressful, more so once you have responsibility of course, but not many jobs are sunshine and lollipops.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns
Well tbh, I don't really know what I am good at or what I want to do with my life. I'm 24 years old and still kind of clueless about a lot of things. I just want to be able to make enough to get out of living in the low-income class.

Maybe spend some time figuring it out first. I don't want to kill your dream of doing something better than the minimum (which is what prompted me to get in to it), but it's a lot of time and money to spend learning something you might hate or not be good at. Until you get some experience and prove you're good at something or specialize in something, you can expect to spend a few years working service desk jobs or tier one deskside support jobs for $35-$45k. The guys without an interest or natural aptitude often find it hard to break out of this level too and get stuck here. If you said you loved tinkering with computers and had done it as a hobby, I'd be a lot more optimistic about your future in IT.


Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns
IT"s draw to me was that it's high-in-demand and has the potenital to pay quite well. I was hoping that it might just turn out to be something I actually enjoy and can do well in, but I am kind of having second thoughts.

The demand is high, but supply is high also. You'll have to find a way to stand out from the hundreds of other grads when you go to find your first job, and in O&G down times like this, there are plenty of very skilled people on the street who want the job too. You're right about the pay, it can be quite high, and I can't complain about where I'm at, but it's took over 10 years of shitty to mediocre jobs to get here. You'll only see the big money after you either get a ton of experience, or specialize in something that's in high demand. The first few years will likely be ~$40k jobs you hate, while your skills learned in school become less relevant by the day if you don't practice and keep up.

Make sure you like constant learning too, it isn't one of those careers where you learn a skill and practice it pretty much the same way until you retire. You have to constantly lab stuff out and play with stuff on your own time to stay ahead, at least it you want to be one of the well paid top specialists. I'm honestly starting to get tired of the constant relearning and getting grumpy whenever a new software version comes out to learn. IT is no longer a hobby for me, so I end up spending my free time reading about and doing stuff I don't like, just to stay on top.


Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns
I don't want to be second guessing myself. I would like to give it a try and hope for the best, but I also don't want to end up feeling like I made a major mistake either.

I'm not trying to bum you out about IT, but want to make sure you go in with your eyes open. If you think you'll spend a couple years in school and have people fighting over you on graduation day with six figure job offers, those days are over. Maybe try picking it up as a hobby first and see if you either develop an interest or hate it. Virtualize a few servers, play with stuff and force yourself to figure stuff out and see if you want more of it, or want to throw it all away. If you find you can't do stuff on your own and be self-taught to some extent, that would be a warning sign to me that it might not be an appropriate career. It will be cheaper to kill some free time than to throw a few years of life and $30k in education away towards something you might not like.

[CompletelyNumb]

Based on what you said, I'd say not to go the IT route. Although I am a firm believer in doing what pays the most, not what you love. Save what you love for time off and be happy you can afford it.

But IT is for those who love it, use it and are already good at it.

And the CCNA is simple. Or it was when I did it 11 years ago. Boring as hell though.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns


Well tbh, I don't really know what I am good at or what I want to do with my life. I'm 24 years old and still kind of clueless about a lot of things. I just want to be able to make enough to get out of living in the low-income class.

IT"s draw to me was that it's high-in-demand and has the potenital to pay quite well. I was hoping that it might just turn out to be something I actually enjoy and can do well in, but I am kind of having second thoughts.

I don't want to be second guessing myself. I would like to give it a try and hope for the best, but I also don't want to end up feeling like I made a major mistake either.

I would recommend playing with VMWare and Packet Tracer, following some youtube tutorials on setting up switches and routers, and getting some general exposure to networking through online forums and videos before committing to going to school. You can decide for yourself if it's engaging enough for you to consider a career in this direction.

IMO, the better path to take would be a developer. I wish I spent my $20k on learning .NET, Java, C/C#/C++. It appears this field is a little less saturated and will give more opportunity to earn a healthy pay-cheque right away.

If you're going to be successful in IT, I really really really believe you can do it self directed.

[sabad66]

I'd say go into Business Analysis before Networking. Skilled BAs will always be needed by companies to 'bridge the gap' between IT and Business. Anything technical is easily outsourced/offshored.

that said i don't really know the best way to get into Business Analysis. I was hired as a new grad (software engineering degree) at a big oil company as a BA and stuck with it for the last 4 years so that's how I did it... but not sure if that's a realistic expectation on how to do it

[timdog]

looking long term, many things in IT are being outsourced overseas, everyone is moving to the 'cloud' and there just isnt going to be a strong market for entry level desktop and network people down the road. some simpler jobs will be automated as well. to be fair, this is the case across the board in many industries. so my recommendation is to find a specialty within IT that has a lower likelihood of being outsourced or automated. Strong IT managers will always be needed for example. In the Network space, it is very unlikely that security experts will be outsourced, especial cloud security experts.
try to think in the long term and how the world is changing. IT is a great industry to get into.. it's still growing and is always changing and thus remains interesting, but be careful on what route you go because if someone in India can do exactly what you do for $2 an hour, good luck competing with that.
try to stay up to date on IT trends and where experts expect things to be in 5 years for example (they may not be right but they'll may still have some valuable insight) and then try to pick a focus that supports those trends.

[timdog]

I also agree with sabad66 on the BA route.

[sabad66]

Thinking about it a bit more, i think it helps to have a solid technical foundation as a BA. Hard to be a good middle man between business and IT if you can't speak both languages confidently.

My technical foundation was being interested ever since i was 8 years old, always being the family/friends go-to guy, then coupled with a 4 year SW Engg degree. Lots of folks go from Systems Analysis->Business Analysis (or stay hybrid in between those).

[suntan]

Calgary's IT scene is okay. Lots of dummies. Companies use a lot of obsolete tech and are run by idiots, especially a lot of the O&G firms.

There is in fact a mega-demand for good developers in the USA. Offshoring is flat because as it turns out Indians don't know what the hell they're doing.

Check out Netflix's salaries...

[Mibz]

Originally posted by suntan
Calgary's IT scene is okay. Lots of dummies. Companies use a lot of obsolete tech and are run by idiots You act as if this isn't the case everywhere.

[suntan]

Most seem to be concentrated in specific O&G companies. Avoid them and you deal with competent people.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Mibz
You act as if this isn't the case everywhere.

The only real oddity about Calgary IMO is the fact that the vast majority of IT staff (especially in O&G) are contractors.

Sometimes being a contractor can be pretty lucrative, but in many cases it can be a real PITA without much in terms of financial reward.

[SmAcKpOo]

Most contractors just milk their clients any ways. I've been in the contractor space and the amount of fraudulent over billing of hours is incredible.

The heads of most of these O&G companies couldn't give a shit about IT as long as it works. No C level managers care to understand IT infrastructure so they just throw money at it.

Once companies start looking internally at the amount of bullshit that goes on in consulting, perhaps the trend may move to in house people again.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by PreludeDudeReturns
Networking specifically.

I will be attending SAIT in fall of 2015 and will be enrolled in the Network Systems Major. If anyone has completed this course, and is able to offer input on what it's like day to day working in the networking field that would be much appreciated.

Will I need certifications like CCNA and CCNP to gain employment? Is it a highly stressful career?

I took the program when it was "NNT" Network engineering technology (I think 2008?) It's a great program if you're really interested in the core network and server aspects of IT. I've been working in the industry for about 7 years.

Your day to day will vary depending on what type of company you work for and the size of their IT team. In my experience; larger companies tend to have more specialized, well defined roles. Smaller companies tend to be more jack of all trades, meaning one you might be doing backups, server and network, etc. Both have there advantages, and opportunities.

As was mentioned, some roles will be contract and some permanent. It comes down to personal preference. Contractors get paid better, but you won't have benefits or paid days off. You're also the first out the door in a downturn. On the downside, pretty much no salaried permanent IT staff get OT pay. I started off contract, but have been permanent for about 4 years now, I don't particularly miss contract.

Pretty much no matter which way you go you'll end up in an entry level NOC or help desk\desktop role to start out. If you're not a fuck up\total neckbeard and do good work you won't stay there for long and you'll get new responsibilities or move up off of NOC or desktop. I'll also add it's important to find a company that has room for movement and is willing to train you and develop your skills. Certifications will depend on your company; some care, some dont. IMO, they look good on a resume as long as you can back them up.

my lazy IT advice:
-avoid ISP's
-avoid MSP's (longview, Acrodex :barf: )...they work you like a rented mule
-Get on with an Oil & Gas or engineering company, as they have big IT budgets and spend money, so you can whore out vendors for lunches and events (movie screenings, flames games, etc) :thumbsup:

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by Anomaly
pretty much no salaried permanent IT staff get OT pay. I started off contract, but have been permanent for about 4 years now, I don't particularly miss contract.

Ive been working IT in 'this' country for 8 years as well and I don't think i've ever come across no pay for OT. Been with several companies too. Although I currently work in a utilities company as a consultant (not a contractor though) and their own IT people get us to do all their changes as they don't get OT so they don't want to do OT.

In your situation how does your company get you to do a tonne of OT without paying you for it?

Actually if op ends up working for an ISP/Managed services company you may find you will end up supplementing your base income with alot of OT hours in order to actually make a decent wage. Atleast thats how it is for everyone in my dept at my company.

Other people in MSP/ISP find that their employers never / make it impossible to actually get a decent raise?

[SmAcKpOo]

[i]....so you can whore out vendors for lunches and events (movie screenings, flames games, etc) :thumbsup: [/B]

Careful with this one. Once you let the vendors in they never leave you alone.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by nzwasp

In your situation how does your company get you to do a tonne of OT without paying you for it?


Yeah that's always been a sore spot for me. We're supposed to get time off in lieu, but it's never a 1:1 value. We do get paid for our on call weekends though. I end up having to do about 4 a year.


Originally posted by nzwasp

Actually if op ends up working for an ISP/Managed services company you may find you will end up supplementing your base income with alot of OT hours in order to actually make a decent wage. Atleast thats how it is for everyone in my dept at my company.
[/B][/QUOTE]

True, some of my friends that work at MSP's end up volunteering for migrations or projects on the weekends for extra cash.


Originally posted by SmAcKpOo

Careful with this one. Once you let the vendors in they never leave you alone.


Yes they can be very annoying...But if you have some decent sales rep's you can build a rapport with them, I find they're not too bad

[SmAcKpOo]

Do you work at Graycon Anomaly?

[snoop101]

I been working in IT for a while now ranging from helpdesk, system admin, to IT manager. If I had to do it all over again I would go into being a DBA.

Like others have said, do IT if its a passion. If you do it for the money you will give up and move on and waste all that money. Starting out is a long crappy process, until you can build a nice resume and understand different technologies.

Honestly DBA's make more money, don't have to deal with as much shit, less of a range of technologies, and there is a huge demand for it.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
Do you work at Graycon Anomaly?

Nope, a EPCM

[cgyITguy]

The OT thing varies quite a bit from company to company. I'm fortunate that my current company does pay out OT. There are a lot of easy weekend projects available to rack up easy OT hours as well. We can cash it out at 1.5 x pay or time in lieu. Good to have both options.

Most other companies I've worked for don't give OT but have some kind of bonus system for billable hours per week or month. So it pretty much works out the same anyway.

Most companies worth working for will compensate its employees in some fashion for extra work done.

[codetrap]

.

[quick_scar]

Originally posted by zipdoa

I really regret going to SAIT!

SAIT got me in the door and gave me a shot. Could I have learnt a lot of it myself over time, yes. But at the end of the day would have been passed over 100 times before I got an interview.

[codetrap]

.

[macman64]

Originally posted by codetrap

Get this.. If you have your L3 interface in an irb on a Juniper MX5, then go L2 across a VLAN through anything to a Cisco 3550 and out an access port, you can't touch the device hanging off the access port. It just doesn't work. Switch it to a tagged interface on the 3550, works perfectly. Move the L3 irb to an MX480 running the same JunOS.. works perfectly. Have this situation in dozens of places in the field.. can't reproduce it in the lab. Totally fucked..

Found the issue for you. :thumbsup:

[codetrap]

.

[PaleRider]

Originally posted by Anomaly

...
-Get on with an Oil & Gas or engineering company, as they have big IT budgets and spend money, so you can whore out vendors for lunches and events (movie screenings, flames games, etc) :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Always go with a large company. Large environment gives you exposure with enterprise level process and technologies which translates to better pay down the road.

I have to agree with others that passion generally separates the good and mediocre talent.

As for OT, I've been lucky that in the last 10 years all my employers either have paid OT/on-call or offered time-in-lieu so I never had to work for free. At this point of my career I don't have to take that BS anyway.