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zieg
09-01-2015, 01:50 PM
All this talk about school as another year starts, figured I'd throw this out there and see what people's thoughts are.

I graduated from BCIT with a diploma in mechanical engineering technology several years ago but I really want my degree. BCIT now offers a B.eng degree and the MET diploma directly counts for the first two years. That seems like the logical way to upgrade but I don't want to leave town (family). Unfortunately SAIT doesn't offer this yet.

So I'm wondering if anyone has been able to upgrade here in town, possibly even while working? Maybe through distance learning, etc? I do know the programs are supposed to be considered full time, not expecting it to be night classes only or anything.. Just want to make sure I'm aware of all my options.

Projek01
09-01-2015, 02:03 PM
Does this B.eng degree qualify for you to get your P.eng title under APEGA?

I looked at the Petroleum B.eng degree at Sait 2 years ago and it was not recognized by APEGA. Seems kind of useless when you cant stamp your work with a degree.

zieg
09-01-2015, 02:21 PM
Yeah, the one from BCIT is.

Cos
09-01-2015, 02:25 PM
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sabad66
09-01-2015, 02:44 PM
Not sure about BCIT, but i know SAIT students can transfer directly into an engg degree program at a few diff schools (U of C included).

Take a look at this:
http://www.sait.ca/programs-and-courses/full-time-studies/transfer-options.php

Click macphail school of energy, then choose the diploma (i.e. chem engg technology), then it lists your options. Second one from the bottom is U of C.

killramos
09-01-2015, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by sabad66
Not sure about BCIT, but i know SAIT students can transfer directly into an engg degree program at a few diff schools (U of C included).

Take a look at this:
http://www.sait.ca/programs-and-courses/full-time-studies/transfer-options.php

Click macphail school of energy, then choose the diploma (i.e. chem engg technology), then it lists your options. Second one from the bottom is U of C.

Looking at that that's a 4 year program, 2 more years at SAIT and 2 more years at UofC. You also don't get to pick your discipline, Energy Engineering is your online option. Which i have personally never heard of.

His Mechanical Engineering Technology diploma is also not listed as eligible

You would be better off just applying to UofC for general engineering admissions for the 4 year degree and redoing everything.

To the best of my knowledge lakehead and Montana tech are the only tech->engineering shortcut programs that actually work in Canada. The Montana Tech thing is also only accredited by Apega ( as opposed to other provinces) if I remember correctly.

rx7_turbo2
09-01-2015, 02:58 PM
You have to be careful there's a lot of fine print with any program offering Tech diploma credit towards a degree. Not saying it isn't worthwhile buts it's rarely an apply, get credit, pay tuition, graduate, scenario.

vengie
09-01-2015, 03:10 PM
When I looked into it, UofC credit was negligible.

Montana Tech, and Wyoming would be your best bet, its a 2.5 year bridge program. I have a few colleagues who went this route.

schocker
09-01-2015, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by killramos


Looking at that that's a 4 year program, 2 more years at SAIT and 2 more years at UofC. You also don't get to pick your discipline, Energy Engineering is your online option. Which i have personally never heard of.

His Mechanical Engineering Technology diploma is also not listed as eligible

You would be better off just applying to UofC for general engineering admissions for the 4 year degree and redoing everything.

To the best of my knowledge lakehead and Montana tech are the only tech->engineering shortcut programs that actually work in Canada. The Montana Tech thing is also only accredited by Apega ( as opposed to other provinces) if I remember correctly.
But now I want to take that!

Only issue is this:


Is the Energy Engineering program accredited?

Energy Engineering is a brand new program. The Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board process requires that all new programs seeking accreditation be reviewed in the year the first students are to graduate. As a result, Energy Engineering will be reviewed for accreditation in the 2016/2017 academic year.

All other engineering programs at the University of Calgary’s Schulich School of Engineering are fully accredited and the Energy Engineering program was created with great attention towards ensuring all accreditation requirements are being met. We are very confident the Energy Engineering program will receive accreditation.

sabad66
09-01-2015, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by killramos


Looking at that that's a 4 year program, 2 more years at SAIT and 2 more years at UofC. You also don't get to pick your discipline, Energy Engineering is your online option. Which i have personally never heard of.

His Mechanical Engineering Technology diploma is also not listed as eligible

You would be better off just applying to UofC for general engineering admissions for the 4 year degree and redoing everything.

To the best of my knowledge lakehead and Montana tech are the only tech->engineering shortcut programs that actually work in Canada. The Montana Tech thing is also only accredited by Apega ( as opposed to other provinces) if I remember correctly.
MET is under the School of Manufacturing and AUtomation, not Macphail. It does have similar transfer options as CET.

And good point about it being Energy Engg.. didn't realize that's your only option. Looks like its a program designed specifically for transfers from SAIT according to here:
http://schulich.ucalgary.ca/node/6670

However it does say that you get an option to include an elective focus in mechanical or petroleum engineering in the final year of study.

So in theory you could end up with an Energy Engineering degree with a minor in Petroleum or Mechanical Engg from the U of C, with only 2 more years of study.

sabad66
09-01-2015, 03:22 PM
Also it looks like the Energy Engg program has spring and summer courses, so you're looking at 24 months of school and not 16, so its almost like 3 full school years.

Akumaz
09-01-2015, 03:46 PM
I looked into this SAIT to UofC transfer
based on what they told me over the phone and emails
the GPA of those applied were really high
3.8 and above
due to the lay offs and such, there are a lot of applicants
so if your GPA is below 3.7, the chance of you even getting into the Energy Engineering is very low
in addition, you must have started your studies no earlier than 2008 (7 years)
yes they count from the beginning of your studies not when you graduated unfortunately

Sugarphreak
09-01-2015, 04:23 PM
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HiTempguy1
09-01-2015, 06:46 PM
Its pretty simple; the universities get to decide which credits do and don't apply. Aka they have you by the balls.

SO MANY PEOPLE thought they'd just "transfer" to UofA from NAIT and they'd get a year or more worth of credits and I was all LOooOoooooooL.

There is no free lunch. Additionally, the theory you do on the technologist programs is so basic compared to the 1st year of engg (having done both, I feel I am qualified to comment on this) that a lot of the people I saw going through the technologist program would flunk immediately if they went into engg.

turbotrip
09-01-2015, 07:14 PM
If you are going from SAIT to UofC, be prepared for 3 years not 2 like they claim. You are not credited as many courses as you would think

zieg
09-01-2015, 07:31 PM
Oh, I know that. And since I've been out for a bit I'm sure the review would be handy. Other problem is I like what I do now, which is design work and project management alongside a multidisciplinary team of both engineers and technologists, but I know that's not the norm and thus feel kinda trapped. So I feel like I want this just do that I could do what I already do, somewhere else. :banghead:

Env-Consultant
09-01-2015, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by vengie
When I looked into it, UofC credit was negligible.

Montana Tech, and Wyoming would be your best bet, its a 2.5 year bridge program. I have a few colleagues who went this route.

^2nd this. Few buddies went to MT and are doing phenomenally well for themselves.

MooseJawian
09-09-2015, 11:20 AM
was in the exactly same boat as you are in right now back in 2010. looking to upgrade and exploring all my options, would like to ideally have as little impact as much with my then ongoing career and family / financial obligations while upgrading to a degree.

unfortunately, i ended up spending a full 4 years full time at university.

honestly there is no better way then Uvic and Lakehead route. if you wanna transfer to another university that does not have the streamlined diploma to degree program with your college, here is what is gonna happen.

1. university is going to compare your college course description with the course you'd like to get credits for. majority of courses will get declined right away without even going through a faculty member, because in terms of course contents, courses from diploma program are vastly different from the similar courses offered in an engg program, even though sometimes they are called the same name. i.e the soil mechanics i took in my civil eng diploma was probably equivalent of the lab portion of the soil mechanics in engg plus maybe 20% of the course content at best.

2. for the ones that you do have a shot at getting transferred, the process can be long and dragging and full of drama, as different faculty members may have different views, and wanna request further information before they reach a final decision, i.e one time, i was requested to ask the college to send in the qualification of the teacher taught the course in that given year, to prove that the teacher was a P.eng when he taught me( WTF?)

3. so lets say you get lucky and got 50% of your diploma program transfered to 1 year "equivalent" university credits, you need to be aware, those courses are going to scattered through all your 4 year degree program, does not mean you can cut 1 year short from the 4 years, only means you are taking 1 or 2 courses less than the rest of the class.

4. too bad university is an academic focuses institution. most of them pretty much do not give a damn about your practical experience gained after diploma. you could be a technologist surveying for 10 years, as long as the instruments you used do not cover the full spectrum of the geomatics practice, unfortunately, you gotta take that course with bunch 22 years old that only worked at walmart.

in conclusion, based on my personal experience and research done years go, no shortcuts, you wanna become a eng, either move out to vic or thunderbay for a good 3 years. or suck it up and do it locally for 4 years.

ExtraSlow
09-09-2015, 12:17 PM
I went to University with a couple of guys who had SAIT diplomas. One thing that caught them off guard was how little actual teaching happens at the University. You are really on your own for learning the vast majority of the material.
I have heard that UofC was working to improve that, but certainly when I was there, they were much more focused on Evaluating what you had learned, not on teaching it to you.

lasimmon
09-09-2015, 12:34 PM
Couple of guys in my Engg Grad class had Nait degrees. They joined us for years 2-4.

killramos
09-09-2015, 12:54 PM
Everyone i went to school with through my 4 years who had technical diplomas of some kind started with us in year 1 and did every single course. Nothing transferred. They had to work hard in every course like everyone else, because what they learned didn't transfer well. Nothing came easier to them because of their experience. Because there is not a damn thing practical about engineering school. They had a bit of a leg up on fabrication when we got to senior design projects in final year but that's about where the advantages ended.

You are pretty much leaving what you have previously done behind when you go the route of getting a full degree. In some ways having a technical diploma is about as relevant as a business degree from another country.

Hence I am not surprised that most universities don't give shit all for transfers.

And for those with the whining about how experience outside of school means nothing, it does mean nothing academically. But don't pretend like that experience didn't help with your admissions process.

Not trying to shit on anyone experience because nothing i have stated above means anything once you are done school. But is my experience of what i have seen happen, and what friends of mine who made the jump expressed to me.

I will note that I did not go to school in Alberta where this kind of upgrading is more common?

Dumbass17
09-12-2015, 09:31 AM
So in summary, it sounds like generally, a 2 year diploma at Sait is useless and may qualify for a year of a degree.

Im also thinking about doing my engineering degree for civil (have a 2 year Sait diploma for civil from 2007) but Jesus, I can't imagine going back to school for 3+ years!

Cos
09-13-2015, 08:01 AM
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MooseJawian
09-13-2015, 11:46 AM
i can't speak for other disciplines, but as a civil tech graduated in 2006, worked in a major consulting firm (not EPC) for a solid 4 years on different roles, then went back to school full time for a solid 4 years locally to get my degree, and now back to the same company as an engineer. i have to say, , unless your path is onto some sort of project / construction management, cost control etc, otherwise, to get a degree is not exactly an upgrade per se, more of an career change.

for those of you who are thinking about going back to get a degree after already have a established career as a tech, you need to be realistic, a piece of paper is not going to solve all the career problems you may have.

when i was a tech, worked a lot of crazy hours, out of town work, but money was good, bought my first condo with 30% down 2 years out of school. but the down side was, i always felt under appreciated at work, constantly had to fight with some 22 years fresh out of school EIT on some opinions or instructions that i would perceive as impractical at the time. on some projects i was the main field guy out there doing all the first hand work, my input would a lot of times get undermined because of this "hes just a tech" mentality, list can go on, anyway, i was not happy. Thought about switching companies, but unfortunately, keep hearing the similar stories from guys i graduated with. heard a few successful stories from those who dived into the construction side of the business, but the job instability and out of town natures did not really appeal to me at that time when i was about to get married and have kids.

so, i went back to university.

4 years flew by, here i am, back to the same building different department as an engineer.

was the prior experience as a tech helpful once you become an engineer?

yes, absolutely, but mostly are the soft skills that are transferable between jobs, i.e communication skills, work ethics, etc, overall, you are a more mature person to work with in a team environment. it also does help you to get more responsibilities compare to your fellow EITs, but certainly doesn't make you jump in this engineer career as a hot shot and expect to know the shit you now deal with.

in terms of the technical aspect of the experience i accumulated as a tech, most competent EIT recruited these days from co op program would have the similar exposure, may not be as in-depth, but they've seen it. a lot of times, the in-depth knowledge on the scope of technologists nature do not really make that much difference when you work as an engineer, some sort of exposure is sufficient.

But overall, you are basically starting over again in another career from the bottom of the food chain.

MooseJawian
09-13-2015, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Cos


Not sure where the hell you got that from:

http://camosun.ca/learn/programs/engineering-bridge/

https://www.lakeheadu.ca/academics/faculties/engineering/college-transfer-program

I know there are a few more but these are the two I have done the most research on. You can't go to UofC, UofA, or UofS. Pretty much everywhere else gives you fairly decent credit.






these two are the only ones that have streamlined diploma to degree programs, even that, expect to spend approximately 3 years with the bridging courses and extra course work you will have to deal with.

Cos
09-13-2015, 01:07 PM
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rx7_turbo2
09-13-2015, 01:10 PM
I've heard the same thing. UVic/Lakehead expect 3 years to complete the degree.

There is no doubt I think. If a P.Eng is your goal the best and most direct route is a 4 year degree not a 2 year diploma and the bridge program. However the tech route isn't "useless" by any stretch. It's a 2 vs 4 year commitment for someone who isn't sure what they want to do. With the option to commit for another 3 years and complete the degree if it turns out they like it. Most of my P.Eng friends spent 5 years in Uni by the time it was all said and done anyways (first year was spent in The Den). It's also a shorter commitment for people returning to post secondary after already developing a career doing something else, in my case a trade. Pros and Cons to both just like everything else.

There is certainly a prevailing "just a Tech" mentality, and for many that's an issue. Truthfully some of it is insecurity from Techs themselves.

killramos
09-13-2015, 01:11 PM
Depending on what industry you are in there isn't much in the way of increased pay for engineers vs techs. From what I can tell at least.

I imagine if you are already fairly stablished in a career ( anything more than 5 years) taking -3 years off, paying for tuition, living expenses, debt. I don't know if upgrading would even pay out. :dunno:

Maybe I'm wrong there but it doesn't seem like an incredibly stellar move.

rx7_turbo2
09-13-2015, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by killramos
Depending on what industry you are in there isn't much in the way of increased pay for engineers vs techs. From what I can tell at least.

I imagine if you are already fairly stablished in a career ( anything more than 5 years) taking -3 years off, paying for tuition, living expenses, debt. I don't know if upgrading would even pay out. :dunno:

Maybe I'm wrong there but it doesn't seem like an incredibly stellar move.

Agreed. Of those friends I know with a P.Eng designation the only ones doing significantly better financially (all things considered) are those who have since gained an MBA as well.

Cos
09-13-2015, 01:22 PM
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rx7_turbo2
09-13-2015, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Cos
And even that is becoming quite saturated as well. Last posting I had in my team we had 4 or 5 engineers apply, all either had PMP or MBA. Can you imagine a P.Eng, MBA working for a tech? Some of the threads on beyond would self-implode.

Hahahaha.

Last friend I spoke with finished an MBA from Cornell, it was really tough on his family, lots of stress. I asked him why he did it, he said he didn't have a choice, "everyone had one now". He saw it as his only way to move up from where he was.

MooseJawian
09-13-2015, 02:50 PM
education is really just a tool to help you with what you wanna achieve in life. degree is a higher education, but not necessarily better education, it is only as good as what you can make out of it.

while i was away 4 years, a co worker of mine who started in the same position just 2 years earlier than me, actually paid off his house before age 30. with 4 years of annual raises , our base salaries are actually very close when i came back as EIT, the difference is he is actually mortgage free and looking for small business opportunities.

i've also seen engineers who work on the same floor , racked up tens of thousands student loans and debts for big capital letters behind their names, well into their mid-30s, drive POS cars and couldn't afford to go further than jasper for their annual family vacations.

to me, i was able to finish my 4 years debt free from going back to work for the same company every summer and log crazy hours doing tech work (thanks to my diploma). now when i finally finish, i work on a 9-5 job that even though it pays lower than the gross income i would expect if i were to continued working as a tech to this date, but it does offer me more job satisfactions and more importantly family time. will the degree help me to get the 4 years earning loss back? probably not. and i suspect the job satisfaction would eventually wear out down the road. but it was sth that if i never did it, i'd probably regret.

to this date, i sometimes have people from my old tech department offering me coffee and wanting to chat about my personal experience to see if they should go back and "upgrade" to a degree, my opinion has always been, if you really love being a technical guy, yes, go ahead for it, there might be various reasons you did not start in university back in the days, and now you wanna make up for it. but if you want more money, financial freedom, better quality of life, chances are you will be disappointed from an engineering degree you trade 3-4 years of your life on. afterall, it is not a MD,JD, it is a B.Sc, but it is no assurance for a better quality of life.

Cos
09-13-2015, 03:00 PM
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leftwing
09-13-2015, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Cos


Now a days I wish I had my PLT behind my name, that combined with a tech diploma is the rockstar combination.



Why don't you go for it?

NoPulp
09-13-2015, 04:32 PM
Just my opinion: I wouldn't go back to get a degree if you have your tech. I don't think it would be a huge benefit.


I went to UBC Okanagan and finished my first year engineering. Did alright, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. Just way too much theory information that was interesting, but in my opinion not terribly useful. Went to SAIT for the Mechanical Engineer Tech and chose not to transfer any courses. It wouldn't have saved me any time to transfer my classes (just $) and I wanted to make sure I learned everything. The SAIT program was much more what I was interested in and I did very well finishing in the top of my class. I found the tech education more useful because its way more directly applicable. I also want to branch out and become specialized in specific fields like corrosion.

I could have had the opportunity to take the bridge program at a variety of schools or do the new UofC program. The new UofC program is setup to directly transfer your work. You take 2 years + a "catch up" summer and you will receive a degree. Nobody really cares what your degree in engineering is in, they just care about "engineering degree". I believe I could have also continued at SAIT and received a petroleum degree.

I personally have no regrets finishing as a tech rather than degree. In my opinion degree engineers typically don't practice engineer for very long before they get pushed into project management. The engineer I work under just got his P.eng and is already getting pushed into project management + sales. I'll be taking over more of the engineering work with just a bit of his help.

It seems like to me that with my diploma and eventually experience I will essential end up sort of in the same boat at someone with a degree. Especially since I'm going for my P.tech. No I won't get payed as much, though the salary of an experienced tech definitely isn't bad. I also won't ever get a fancier piece of paper. I think its just important to work at a place that treats their techs well rather than shit ons.




If you want to get your degree I would contact actual schools. But as mentioned earlier, if you weren't top of your class as a tech you will struggle. The teaching is also much different.

Chemengsait
09-14-2015, 07:45 AM
I think I'm going to apply for UofC in October when they're open for registration just to see if I can even get in to the program since the website asks for a 3.9 gpa and I'm 0.18 below that. If I do get in though I'll have to make the tough decision of leaving my job since it's pretty stable and the pay is decent but I'm not exactly happy with it and I think I'd rather do more civil engg related jobs than chemical. Hopefully this forum can help me decide what's best for me. :dunno:

Cos
09-14-2015, 07:58 AM
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bjstare
09-14-2015, 03:06 PM
I'm so glad I went through for Eng and not Tech... but as I stated in another thread, it's because I don't like actual engineering. Having an Eng degree was a definite factor in helping me jump into Project Management early in my career, and it will also help me progress into higher management roles further down the road as well. In my industry (EPC), it's quite rare that techs are in upper management (and they're a significant minority even on our PM teams). Just to be clear, I'm not trashing techs at all - it's a fantastic career choice/education if you like design work.

Coles notes: If you don't want a career doing actual engineering, get a degree in engineering :rofl:

ExtraSlow
09-14-2015, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by cjblair
Coles notes: If you don't want a career doing actual engineering, get a degree in engineering :rofl:
This pretty much describes my career path too. Engineering degree, and virtually zero time ever spent doing "real" engineering. It's awesome.

Cos
09-14-2015, 03:25 PM
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NoPulp
09-14-2015, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by cjblair
Coles notes: If you don't want a career doing actual engineering, get a degree in engineering :rofl:

This is what I realized and the reason why I dropped out. Zero interest in project management.

s_havinga
09-14-2015, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by cjblair
I'm so glad I went through for Eng and not Tech... but as I stated in another thread, it's because I don't like actual engineering. Having an Eng degree was a definite factor in helping me jump into Project Management early in my career, and it will also help me progress into higher management roles further down the road as well. In my industry (EPC), it's quite rare that techs are in upper management (and they're a significant minority even on our PM teams). Just to be clear, I'm not trashing techs at all - it's a fantastic career choice/education if you like design work.

Coles notes: If you don't want a career doing actual engineering, get a degree in engineering :rofl:

This is exact opposite of how my career has gone. As an MET in a group of 6 engineers, I went from being a design/drafter to PM and the Engineers in the same group were left to Engineer.

I have always felt that if you want to head in a PM or management direction, getting the P.Eng would be a waste of time and money. I can honestly say that if I had graduated at the same time with an Eng degree, I would likely have taken the identical path and would be doing the exact same job for the exact same pay right now.

Dumbass17
09-14-2015, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Cos


Not sure where the hell you got that from:

http://camosun.ca/learn/programs/engineering-bridge/

https://www.lakeheadu.ca/academics/faculties/engineering/college-transfer-program

I know there are a few more but these are the two I have done the most research on. You can't go to UofC, UofA, or UofS. Pretty much everywhere else gives you fairly decent credit.

Bridging to UVic or UBC
The Engineering Bridge programs provide students with qualifying technology diplomas direct access to the third year of Engineering at the University of BC (Vancouver or Okanagan campuses) in Civil, Mining or Mechanical Engineering or to the Univesity of Victoria (UVic) in Electrical, Computer and Mechanical Engineering.


Answer: Each program is two academic years (September to April) in length following a series of transition courses taken during the summer prior to the start of the first full academic year of study. You will join Lakehead’s graduate Engineering Technologists in the 3rd year of the 4-year degree program. It’s simple math:


Yeah, sure the websites say that you join the 3rd year but that is not true. You have to do a bridging program (I've looked into this in a few schools) and most say 6 month, which also seems to be misleading because most say it takes more like a year to 2 years of just bridging, then you have to do the 3rd and 4th year...


Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Hahahaha.

Last friend I spoke with finished an MBA from Cornell, it was really tough on his family, lots of stress. I asked him why he did it, he said he didn't have a choice, "everyone had one now". He saw it as his only way to move up from where he was.
http://adweek.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c51c053ef01310f84cd3e970c-pi



And now I feel I've read too much of this thread and like/hate my job. I am confused haha.

I only took civil because it sounded like the most appealing from the SAIT calendar options when I was ready to go back to school. Well that and I figured it would have a good future job outlook and security:nut:

Cos
09-15-2015, 06:44 AM
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lison
09-18-2015, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by ZiG-87
All this talk about school as another year starts, figured I'd throw this out there and see what people's thoughts are.


Hey glad you're thinking of going into engineering. Not sure if this old thread where I was in a similar situation will help :P

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/engineering/showthread.php?s=&threadid=345110&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Cos
09-19-2015, 09:21 AM
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