Disrupt: The Tesla Model S P85D Reviewed

[rage2]

http://www.beyond.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tesla-model-s-p85d-insane-mode-review-13-550x310.jpg

Finally got a chance to drive a P85D spec Model S. Let's see if it'll add even more fuel to the Tesla thread fires. :rofl:

I focused specifically on the EV's car abilities in this review, ignoring all the discussions we've made about Tesla's stock, Tesla as a company, and everything else that was a distraction on the car itself. Enjoy!

http://www.beyond.ca/disrupt-the-tesla-model-s-p85d-reviewed/53132.html

[The_Rural_Juror]

Totally agree with your comments on the interior.

[Cos]

.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Pretty balanced, nice writeup. :thumbsup:

[rage2]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror
Totally agree with your comments on the interior.
Tesla has been updating the delivered cars pretty much monthly, maybe even weekly. The specs of this P85D is already different than what you order today. It keeps changing. The new seats are a huge huge improvement. I can't state that enough. So it's up to Tesla to really improve that interior quickly, which they seems to be able to do much faster than traditional manufacturers (ie facelifts).

A point that I neglected to include in the review is that there are no voice commands to control most of the functionality, so you have to use the touch screen for nearly everything. Voice control only supports simple commands such as picking a song, navigate, or send a bug report to Tesla. Both my times with the Model S, I had the passenger work on the settings. Didn't feel comfortable fiddling around with it while driving.


Originally posted by Cos
Good article. I assume this was one of the two 'beyond' Tesla's?
Yup. Thank you B18B for letting me get behind the wheel of his P85D!


Originally posted by Cos
This part: really reminded me of what the new EZ-GO golf carts feel like. They also have regen braking and feel the same way. Is weird at first but I quite like it actually, feel like I have more control.
I drive a lot of different cars, so I was able to adapt pretty quickly and had zero problems with it. I don't think we're your typical drivers though, and it shows over on the Tesla forums. Lots of owners complaining about this behavior, wanting more settings to make it feel right, wives complaining, etc.

[hurrdurr]

Two car seats in the back awesome! :thumbsup:

[Gripenfelter]

Good write-up.

So this one didn't have the Ludicrous speed button?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The exception that I would like to point out is off throttle behavior. In a normal car, when you completely let off the throttle to cruise, you are met with a very small amount of engine braking. In the Tesla, to optimize range and efficiency, it feels like you’re lightly on the brakes. This is because off throttle, the Model S is regenerating power to charge the batteries. It takes a little while to get used to this behavior, but once you do, you pretty much never use the brake pedal in normal driving situations, and reprograms the driver to use a single pedal to control their speed. The Model S isn’t the only EV forcing drivers to relearn how to drive, the BMW i3 uses a similar system, and there is a good reason why EVs are moving towards this behavior.

Looking at the Toyota Prius, it handles regenerative braking slightly differently than the Model S and i3. Off the throttle, it simulates typical engine braking, and regenerates a small amount of energy. Press the brakes a little, and it activates more regenerative braking. Push hard on the brakes, and it will regenerate energy and use the mechanical brakes to slow you down quicker. There are pros and cons to this method of energy recovery. The obvious advantage is that it feels like driving a typical car. The disadvantage is that it requires a more complex braking system to manage the transition between regenerative braking and mechanical braking, something that Toyota has done an excellent job of, at a significant increase in engineering and control systems expenses. Another side effect is that drivers tend to use the brakes more, which means more brake wear, and less energy going back to the batteries.

Which system is better? For efficiency sake, the single pedal speed control model is definitely the way to go.


This part was by far the most interesting to me - it's nice to hear how the engineering choices affect the drivability profile. That said, I was surprised that you picked the "single-pedal" system as the winner in the efficiency category. If the Prius variable regen-brake system has a higher maximum braking force from the regen system alone than the single-pedal fixed regen (so the Tesla doesn't feel like it's hit a wall every time you get off the throttle), wouldn't that mean that the variable system will innately provide a greater level of regeneration and lesser brake wear, as the brakes only need provide force over and above the maximum force applied by the regen system?

Solid article overall, I'd honestly like to see a similar review for the current Volt, even if it is a bit more pedestrian than the Tesla. I must be getting old.

[s dime]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


This part was by far the most interesting to me - it's nice to hear how the engineering choices affect the drivability profile. That said, I was surprised that you picked the "single-pedal" system as the winner in the efficiency category. If the Prius variable regen-brake system has a higher maximum braking force from the regen system alone than the single-pedal fixed regen (so the Tesla doesn't feel like it's hit a wall every time you get off the throttle), wouldn't that mean that the variable system will innately provide a greater level of regeneration and lesser brake wear, as the brakes only need provide force over and above the maximum force applied by the regen system?

Solid article overall, I'd honestly like to see a similar review for the current Volt, even if it is a bit more pedestrian than the Tesla. I must be getting old.

That's what I would assume as well, less break wear not the other way around.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Gripenfelter

So this one didn't have the Ludicrous speed button?

From what I understand none of them do?

I wonder if Tesla has thought of maybe putting something like a coast button on the wheel. Hold the button and it disabled the regen system allowing you to smoothly coast down a slight hill without losing or gaining much speed. Much more efficient to do that than to:

regen-accel-regen-accel

I could see that actually increasing range dramatically in a situation like say driving to kelowna from calgary.

Similar to the coasting function efficient dynamics BMW's have.

I don't fully understand the drive train but can the motors be decoupled from the wheels to do this?

[rage2]

Originally posted by hurrdurr
Two car seats in the back awesome! :thumbsup:
Yea, my gf loved that setup. In fact, she loved the Tesla after seeing it in person and loved it. At least, until she spec'd it out on the website.

If the P85D was a $100k car, we'd probably get one for her as a year round DD. At this stage, we're probably going to look for a used one to see how prices look in 2.5 years.


Originally posted by Gripenfelter
So this one didn't have the Ludicrous speed button?
Only the newly delivered cars have it. This car is compatible with the upgrade.


Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
That said, I was surprised that you picked the "single-pedal" system as the winner in the efficiency category. If the Prius variable regen-brake system has a higher maximum braking force from the regen system alone than the single-pedal fixed regen (so the Tesla doesn't feel like it's hit a wall every time you get off the throttle), wouldn't that mean that the variable system will innately provide a greater level of regeneration and lesser brake wear, as the brakes only need provide force over and above the maximum force applied by the regen system?
It all depends on driver "retraining" when using the single pedal system. I was pretty aggressive in traffic, and really didn't use the brakes at all, and was able to fully control my speed with a single pedal, meaning I'm regenerating as much as I can. After a few minutes, you're never off the throttle completely, unless you're coming to a complete stop.

In a Prius, I have no idea when I'm using brakes if I'm using brakes or regen unless I'm staring at the pretty screen. So as a driver, if I'm to maximize efficiency, the single pedal solution is better.

Like I said earlier, while it's easy for me to adapt, it's clearly an issue with many drivers as they're having difficulty adjusting to this setup.


Originally posted by s dime
That's what I would assume as well, less break wear not the other way around.
You never touch the brake pedal in the Tesla unless you want to panic stop, or drive really aggressively ie at the track.


Originally posted by killramos
I wonder if Tesla has thought of maybe putting something like a coast button on the wheel. Hold the button and it disabled the regen system allowing you to smoothly coast down a slight hill without losing or gaining much speed. Much more efficient to do that than to:

regen-accel-regen-accel

I could see that actually increasing range dramatically in a situation like say driving to kelowna from calgary.
You don't need to. You just hold the throttle at say 10% and it's smoothly maintaining speed while regen charging going downhill. Or use cruise control, which does the same thing. Once the driver learns to use the single pedal method, it's a more efficient system. I guess I should've noted that point in the review.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2

You don't need to. You just hold the throttle at say 10% and it's smoothly maintaining speed while regen charging going downhill. Or use cruise control, which does the same thing. Once the driver learns to use the single pedal method, it's a more efficient system. I guess I should've noted that point in the review.

So the car can regen while on throttle? Somehow that doesn't make sense to me.

So i guess the brake pedal is just for the mechanical brakes then?

[rage2]

Originally posted by killramos
So the car can regen while on throttle? Somehow that doesn't make sense to me.

So i guess the brake pedal is just for the mechanical brakes then?
Yup. Once you get going, the first 20% of throttle travel is regen at various levels. So to maintain constant speed, you're at say 21% throttle. Want to slow down a bit? 10% throttle. Want to slow down more? 0% throttle. Oh shit a kid, hit brake pedal (and trigger mechanical brakes).

[B18C]

The regen system is very smooth. If I'm coasting down a hill I control speed by how much i'm pressing down the accelerator (or brake). I can still be in regen mode while pressing the accelerator so there isn't a situation where I go regen-accel-regen-accel.

When I let off the accelarator the regen is not jarring or anything. In fact, I wish there was a mode to have even more aggressive regeneration.

One pedal driving takes a bit of getting used to but now it's second nature.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by rage2

It all depends on driver "retraining" when using the single pedal system. I was pretty aggressive in traffic, and really didn't use the brakes at all, and was able to fully control my speed with a single pedal, meaning I'm regenerating as much as I can. After a few minutes, you're never off the throttle completely, unless you're coming to a complete stop.

In a Prius, I have no idea when I'm using brakes if I'm using brakes or regen unless I'm staring at the pretty screen. So as a driver, if I'm to maximize efficiency, the single pedal solution is better.

Like I said earlier, while it's easy for me to adapt, it's clearly an issue with many drivers as they're having difficulty adjusting to this setup.


Well I agree that it makes for a smoother transition on the driver's part, I'm comparing the pure electromechanical efficiency of the two systems.

A bit of research shows that the Prius also kicks in regen in off-throttle situations, but it may just be that it's set for a lower level of regen in that situation than what you experienced the Telsa. The Model S, AFAIK, has three off-throttle regen settings (Standard, Neutral, Low) that set regen rate at zero throttle input, I'm not sure which you were in. Standard appears to light up the brake lights when you're off the gas but I can't nail that down for certain.

So it seems intuitive that using a regen system that's modulated by the brake pedal is still going to give better efficiency and reduced brake wear over the split system. Both will regen up to the max deceleration input from the regen system regardless of whether that's based on input from brake or throttle pedal as the Prius brakes don't kick in until you hit max regen rate, which is significantly higher than the Teslas as it can be regulated to a higher regen rate. It's basically brake-by wire.

However, here's what I've now learned from researching the systems.

The method of regen modulation currently doesn't make any difference to regen efficiency. It doesn't even make a difference to maximum regen rate, either, which came as a real surprise to me. It all comes down to batteries.

In theory, if the Tesla had it off-throttle regeneration capped at (say) 60kW for drivability, and the Prius could regenerate 120Kw while under full braking power, the Prius would have a higher maximum efficiency as it would generate 60kW at the same deceleration rate as the Tesla but have the ability to generate more kW (and charge the battery faster) under heavier braking.

That makes sense in theory, but what that theory requires is a battery than can accept a charge rate equal to the maximum regen output (60kW, 120kW, etc.) That battery, unfortunately, doesn't exist. So, any and all regen rates must be capped at the maximum charge power the battery can accept. In theory, we could have regen do 100% of the braking job at all times and waste no energy whatsoever, but since batteries have a max input rate that's not feasible.

So the reality is that both the Tesla and Prius (and Volt, etc.) will only regenerate to the maximum input power the battery can sustain. Both will be exactly equally efficient given the same battery. Whether they actually both have the same max charge rate I don't know - Tesla Model S batteries have a max regen input of 60kW, while previous gens of Prius are only 30kW but they may have upgraded batteries now.

[dirtsniffer]

#mercedes lol

I like that method for regen. seems like it is the best use of the system while being easy to use for the general public.

For me, never having driven a electric car, I think I would prefer to have a steering wheel paddle to switch the motor polarity for regen and have the brake peddle for the conventional system.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2

Yup. Once you get going, the first 20% of throttle travel is regen at various levels. So to maintain constant speed, you're at say 21% throttle. Want to slow down a bit? 10% throttle. Want to slow down more? 0% throttle. Oh shit a kid, hit brake pedal (and trigger mechanical brakes).

Interesting. I just feel like there has got to be some benefit to being able to coast with the drive train disconnected. Just physics really.

Kind of like the concept of hypermiling, i know coasting features are a main way that a lot of other cars get better mileage. One of the reasons why modern autos do better than manuals.

[rage2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
The method of regen modulation currently doesn't make any difference to regen efficiency. It doesn't even make a difference to maximum regen rate, either, which came as a real surprise to me. It all comes down to batteries.

In theory, if the Tesla had it off-throttle regeneration capped at (say) 60kW for drivability, and the Prius could regenerate 120Kw while under full braking power, the Prius would have a higher maximum efficiency as it would generate 60kW at the same deceleration rate as the Tesla but have the ability to generate more kW (and charge the battery faster) under heavier braking.

That makes sense in theory, but what that theory requires is a battery than can accept a charge rate equal to the maximum regen output (60kW, 120kW, etc.) That battery, unfortunately, doesn't exist. So, any and all regen rates must be capped at the maximum charge power the battery can accept. In theory, we could have regen do 100% of the braking job at all times and waste no energy whatsoever, but since batteries have a max input rate that's not feasible.

So the reality is that both the Tesla and Prius (and Volt, etc.) will only regenerate to the maximum input power the battery can sustain. Both will be exactly equally efficient given the same battery. Whether they actually both have the same max charge rate I don't know - Tesla Model S batteries have a max regen input of 60kW, while previous gens of Prius are only 30kW but they may have upgraded batteries now.
Great info. I missed this during the research.


Originally posted by dirtsniffer
#mercedes lol

I like that method for regen. seems like it is the best use of the system while being easy to use for the general public.

For me, never having driven a electric car, I think I would prefer to have a steering wheel paddle to switch the motor polarity for regen and have the brake peddle for the conventional system.
That's the thing, it's a great system for those that can adapt, but for most drivers, they just can't get used to the system. There are a lot of complaints about it in the Tesla forums.

A steering wheel paddle would make even less sense if someone can't adapt to a regen with less throttle system.


Originally posted by killramos
Interesting. I just feel like there has got to be some benefit to being able to coast with the drive train disconnected. Just physics really.

Kind of like the concept of hypermiling, i know coasting features are a main way that a lot of other cars get better mileage. One of the reasons why modern autos do better than manuals.
At a certain pedal position, it basically coasts. Doesn't add power, doesn't regen. It's tough to hit that mark though, and you have to look at your speedo to find the sweet spot, as it shows power usage and regen.

You're right tho, it's probably more efficient to go slightly faster downhill via coasting, once it drops back to your cruise speed, power again to maintain speed. Unfortunately, it's not a realistic option because of speed limits.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2

You're right tho, it's probably more efficient to go slightly faster downhill via coasting, once it drops back to your cruise speed, power again to maintain speed. Unfortunately, it's not a realistic option because of speed limits.

Somehow i have a feeling there is no way to decouple the wheels from the motor actually, which is why it isn't done.

Is there a neutral function on the car at all?

There must be or how could you ever get the thing on a flatbed to tow.

edit:


To put in Neutral, just one upclick on the gear stock from Drive without pushing it in for Park puts it in Neutral.

looks like it can and does in some situations:
http://my.teslamotors.com/de_AT/forum/forums/model-s-shifting-neutral-when-driving-rain-and-puddles

Maybe coasting is just a software update away!

[B18C]

Originally posted by rage2

Great info. I missed this during the research.


That's the thing, it's a great system for those that can adapt, but for most drivers, they just can't get used to the system. There are a lot of complaints about it in the Tesla forums.


Really? I don't get that impression on the forums at all.

I haven't looked into it for a while now but I thought one pedal driving has been very well received by Tesla drivers. If you really don't like it you can turn it off. You can also turn on "creep" that makes the car behave just like it had an automatic transmission if you want.

If my wife ever wanted to drive my car I would do just that. Turn on creep and turn off regen and it will behave just like any other car she has driven.

[rage2]

It's in the archived forum posts from a couple years ago. Owners complained about the regen, and that's why Tesla added the regen modes. There were also complaints that regen is disabled in the cold, so all of a sudden backing off throttle doesn't slow you down.

The complaints have stopped because owners can turn off regen for those that don't like it, but the problem is still there in that many people can't adapt to it.

[dirtsniffer]

I missed your post about the first 20% of accelerator travel is actually regeneration. Sounds great to me. Now they just need to come out with a model that I can afford.

[Cos]

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[rage2]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
I missed your post about the first 20% of accelerator travel is actually regeneration. Sounds great to me. Now they just need to come out with a model that I can afford.
It's already out. It's called the Nissan Leaf. :)


Originally posted by Cos
Does it still do this or does it give you a warning? This one would be a bit freaky.
That I'm not sure about. I haven't heard much recently about it, but not sure if people just got used to it or if it's fixed. With Tesla, it's really tough to track what issues are severe, as Tesla owners understand that it's a new product and hence are much more forgiving than owners of traditional brands.

[B18C]

Originally posted by Cos


Does it still do this or does it give you a warning? This one would be a bit freaky.

From what I understand this does occur. I can tell you for sure that regen braking is lessened (or completely disabled) if you battery is fully charged. It is a bit weird to suddenly have the car not behave like it normally does. It's only happened to me the couple times I fully charged my battery. It's pretty easy to get used to though. I think it's a pretty minor complaint.

In the winter, with slippery roads it might be a different story. I'll report back in a couple months!

[KRyn]

Originally posted by rage2
"Even with this disadvantage, the P85D is still faster than most cars from a rolling race as throttle response is instantaneous. There is no wait to downshift, delays from opening the throttle body, or turbos spooling up, it just accelerates immediately.

You just have to make sure you are racing the P85D from a roll.

2-SRHxcpG6I

Cool review, I want to drive one of these someday. I don't think launching it would ever get old and it wouldn't attract any attention at a red light.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by B18C


From what I understand this does occur. I can tell you for sure that regen braking is lessened (or completely disabled) if you battery is fully charged. It is a bit weird to suddenly have the car not behave like it normally does. It's only happened to me the couple times I fully charged my battery. It's pretty easy to get used to though. I think it's a pretty minor complaint.

In the winter, with slippery roads it might be a different story. I'll report back in a couple months!

One of the Beyonder P85D owners here. In my car, since day 1thru the various software updates, there has only been two regen settings: low and normal. No way to turn it off (except maybe the crude hack of putting it in neutral as suggested above, so not by design yet).

I have no problem with the normal regen setting per se, and I am getting used to it, and the wife loves it. She never touches the brakes and I'm not always cleaning brake dust off the rims.

But here the two problems that I hadn't mentioned in the "P85D Driving Experiences" thread (which I probably should and could have mentioned by now), the regen braking could be a big problem in the winter, ice, glazed intersection, etc. And if you start coasting (braking) to a stop before everyone else does, so you throw their pace off when approaching a red light.

IMO, as 90% of the drivers on the road approach a red light, they brake late, and hard, relative to the Tesla. Don't argue too much about the number, it's ballpark-ish. Most drivers see the red light, let up and coast, and then brake as the get near to the red light and stopped traffic. As soon as you let up to coast in the Tesla, it will start to brake, depending on how far up you lift your foot off the accelerator. In normal ICE driving, I let my foot completely off the gas, and prepare to hit the brakes, a ways back from the red light. Lifting off at the same time in the Tesla will start the braking too early for the traffic flow (even worse than say a guy w a manual tranny who is coasting to a stop as he tries to time the green light with some forward momentum still). As Rage alluded to, there is a point where you can modulate between throttle and braking, all with the right pedal, but imo it's a fine line to hit. And it draws your eyes away from the approaching stopped traffic, as you tend to be looking at the energy consumption bar to see if its green (regen), or orange (power on). So even after 6500km, I don't know the sweet spot perfectly, and look down too often when trying to nail that sweet spot, which is unsafe. So I don't try to do it very often.

But to me, the worst part isn't that we "over brake" and affect the flow of traffic a slight bit, it's that our brake lights come on at any time we are above, say 10kW of braking, which is a very very small amount of braking. So I look like I'm an idiot driving the car, and driving everyone else behind me nuts, cause every time I lift throttle, my brake lights come on. Drive behind a Tesla (been there with the wife), and you will see what I mean, it's annoying to me, and I figure it must be annoying to others. Lets say I was driving at 110kph, pass a bunch of traffic, then decide that I will coast to slow back to a reasonable speed...my brakes come on....some of the drivers might get a bit pi$$ed that I did that, right after I got in front of them...so there's that. BUUTTT and its WAAAYYY worse: last week, I used the P85D power while driving on Deerfoot, and pulled around a slow moving truck in the fast lane. There was someone in the middle lane, so I gave it throttle to get back into the fast lane, but of course the turbo diesel I was passing floors it with his chipped truck, and now the gap is closing. I have the space and time to get back in, and start to pull back into the fast lane in front of him, and let up a bit on the gas as I don't need to be going that fast anymore...Holy carp, BAD IDEA. Now I am showing him my taillights and freaking him out as I turn back into the fast lane. I know I've ticked him off cause he's riding my bumper now (well I knew I was ticking him off when I went to pass, as I chose not to let him regulate the speed of traffic that day). But it's a total douche move imo to pull in front AND then brake - it leads to even more road rage out there. I wasn't actually braking per se, it was maybe 10kW, but that is enough to turn on the brake light, probably req'd per DOT rules, so I can 't see Tesla allowing us to detune the brake light sensitivity (maybe if it was VW/Audi I'd be able to get a short cut to bypass this - if your reading this a few months out in 2016, think back to the 2.0T diesel NOx issues). And yes, this was a "maneuver" I pulled, but no flames about the example I gave, it also applies to a much more benign situation, such as when passing on a undivided highway and then cutting back in and showing them your taillights...

This is a significant problem in my mind...it's not just that going down a hill I am constantly showing brake lights (sometimes intermittent on and off too), nor is it even that on a regular passing move on say a undivided highway, I get in front, and then will show the guy brake light (I coast back down to cruising speed in an ICE car), it's that on a more aggressive pass where you do have to cut back in fast, be it on a undivided highway, or say driving Deerfoot, you are going to be showing them tailights right as you cut in, if it's a tight gap. Unsafe, could freak out people. If I'm slowing down from passing doing 130 down to 110kph, I would be doing it coasting, esp if I was pulling back in. So there are rare times where it can be unsafe to have regen braking as it lights up the brake lights, when you don't want to actually be seen as braking.

The other time is of course on ice. I can modulate with my right foot the second pedal (brake) better that I can modulate the throttle with my right foot. This is why I've been saying it is going to take a lot of parking lot testing before I feel like I can drive the Tesla at it limits in the winter. And I actually don't see me being able to do it well in the Tesla, and I do "think" I have pretty good control over my feet from years of solo racing. Maybe it be retraining those now virtually autonomous neural pathway I've built after years of using the brake pedal, but I also think its going t be tougher, as the Tesla throttle/brake balance position is going to require dancing a fine line. It's cause I dont think its the same point all the time. Going down a hill, needs one throttle position for a neutral coast, going down a lesser hill, less throttle, up a hill, slowing from 140kph wind resistance vs slowing from 50kph in the city (and think headwind, I don't drive 140kph). Each one needs a different throttle position to not be braking and not turn on the brake lights, and unlike other stuff I got used to in the EV quickly, this one is taking some time. On sheer ice I want a slow lift off the throttle to coast, then braking, possibly hard, if the car is still travelling the direction the wheels are pointed and hence I can use the ABS effectively. This imo, is going to be much harder to modulate in the Tesla. And that's for me. My wife, on ice always lifts waaaay too fast off the throttle and has put us out of control just from letting up off the gas. When she does this in the Tesla, we are going to be doing donuts (5000# of inertia), as it will immediately put 60kW or more of braking into the mix. As an FYI, 60kW is a good amount of braking force...like 1/4 to 1/3 of normal pedal force/distance compared to the force required for max lockup. That's waaay to much for braking on ice in some situations, yet in a panic lift, this is what will happen. And the car will be sideways. I was going to wait till I tested out the "low" regen braking in the winter in an empty parking lot, but I am pretty sure Tesla is going to want to hear about this wrt their uber safe car, and they chance that they will have to introduce a "no regen" braking choice if enough of us ask (I hope). But I've got to wait till the winter to ascertain how important this will be to fix, and how large a problem it is. I am sure other Tesla owners have mentioned this to them in the past, so I may be one more voice in a sea of compliance, but I certainly am not going to not talk to them in case it is a problem for me or my wife. If it's a problem for us, it's a problem for others in Northern climates, and hence the car isn't "as safe" as I'm sure they want it to be. That should be the impetus for them to change it...even if it gives up that all important winter driving range; imo they need to offer a zero regen mode if the weather is below say 2C and ice may be on the road. It's just prudent.

[rage2]

The big question will be if the ABS and ESP systems account for regen braking wheel slip, and adjust accordingly for that to ensure full traction under "braking". I don't see why it wouldn't, but it'll be curious to know how they implemented it.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Cos
Good article. I assume this was one of the two 'beyond' Tesla's?


Mine.... Eventually.



Originally posted by rage2

Yea, my gf loved that setup. In fact, she loved the Tesla after seeing it in person and loved it. At least, until she spec'd it out on the website.

If the P85D was a $100k car, we'd probably get one for her as a year round DD. At this stage, we're probably going to look for a used one to see how prices look in 2.5 years.


Hands off, fucker!


:guns: haha

[rage2]

I worded that wrong. We're going to look for a used one in 2.5 years. Not getting one anytime soon.

[Cos]

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[01RedDX]

.

[Maxt]

Forgive me, I know nothing about the Tesla, but is the regen braking on all wheels, the front or the rear with a bias? I was thinking about the Ice road situation when reading Rage's article, for me I like to use the tow haul mode in my pickups to use rear tire braking on ice, it keeps the trucks straight over using the brakes which tend to be front biased in a pickup truck.. If it starts regen braking on ice on the front end, it could be a scary car to drive in winter.
Also instantaneous torque and traction control on ice, how good does it all blend together to get the car moving? I guess it depends on how good the power modulation is the go pedal. I've heard of people not being happy with the performance of hybrids in winter, full on EV the same ?

[rage2]

I wanted to get some feedback from one of the owners this year but there was no snow at all.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
German girl in first ever attempt to fly a model S. Result: flew 82 feet and rolled at least once, all 5 passengers survive.

http://bgr.com/2016/05/08/tesla-model-s-accident/

Faired better than AmericanM5 from M5board...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4198416&page=1

[rage2]

There's a big difference in flying in the air and landing in an empty dirt field vs flying in the air and smacking a tree.

[01RedDX]

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[rage2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
I mostly wanted to share an example of how well Tesla's cabin and crumple zones work in a serious crash.
Tesla's have the best safety rating ever tested for a reason. :)