truck recommendation

[topjava]

Hey, guys

I'm looking for a new truck for my future travel trailer which will be around 30 feet long box and 8000lb to 9000lb range.
We liked Windjammer 3006WK at the RV shows and was on sale, but still expensive ($40K).
Possibly, we would go with Tracer Air 300 or 305.

We usually go to camping every second week around Calgary and possibly one or two weeks to down south or Kelowna area.

For now, I have three trucks in my mind which are F-150HD/3.5L Ecoboost, Silverado HD/6.0L or Ram 2500/6.4L.

I know diesel is way to go, but it is a bit higher than my budget and this will be my daily driving truck from home to work (around 15km on each way).

Could you please give me some recommendation or provide your experiences on those trucks?

[RealJimmyJames]

Java, are those weights "dry" weights, GVW, or a true "loaded weight"?

Most dealers only talk about dry weights, but once you add batteries, propane, gear and beer, you'll have a hell of a lot more. If you have no other info, use the GVW of the trailer and assume that's about what it'll weigh when you are towing it. Also assume that your tongue weight will be 15% of that.

The biggest issue on half tons is that you run out of payload. Are you looking brand new or used for trucks? Finding a truck with the max payload option on the lot can be difficult. You should be able to order one no problem though.

The EcoBoost will probably get the best mileage while you are commuting, if that matters to you. It doesn't get great mileage when towing, but it's got a lot of torque low down in the RPM range, which makes hills etc less stressful.
You can get a 138L fuel tank on the Ford as well. That's helpful.

You can also consider a gas super duty, which can be had for pretty close to the same price as an F150 if you stay in lower trim models. Won't get the same fuel economy unloaded though.

[r3ccOs]

the other thread I detail a number of options... of which I have the exact same use case as you:

1. daily driver
2. big 30+ foot trailer
3. non-diesel

the F-150HD ecoboost had HUGE payload and towing capability... but apparently with the aluminum body is too light... like Sub 5k, and I've heard alot of friends complain about it (my MY2014 13th gen is 5850lbs)

Its also really big because you're talking about a 6.5 box on a supercrew (maybe don't know your case), which happens to be the biggest cab in all trucks today

drove a buncha 2500s and F250's lately, and I just can't live with 2 things...:
1. lack of punch on the gasser - substantially slower than a half ton (especially the ecoboost, tundra, or 6.2 GMCs)
2. the ride... boy its "rough". The best of the bunch is the Sierra 2500, but even in comparison to my Max tow F150, its like an SUV to a e series work van

half tons with their semi-floating axels are definately weekender vehicles made to "tow" and not really haul.

3/4 and 1 tons, especially gas engines, are quite the opposite, as I'm finding quite low tow ratings on the entry gas 3/4 ton models (i.e. 2014 2500 GMC w/ 3.73 gears 6.0 vortec was only 9500lbs, but had a HUGE payload of 3k)

so it comes down to the way your trailer as per Jimmy, it handles the weight respective to the tongue (mine is a double axel and does about 13%)

So if you have a half ton with payload capacity of just south of 2k, you should be okay with the trailer you're looking at, a family and basics in the box...

the rest of the stuffs then needs to go in the trailer.

Now if you want a couple quads in the box... yah, go 3/4 ton or 1 ton... and better go diesel

[redblack]

F-150 /thread

[HiTempguy1]

You say new truck. I'm assuming you mean "brand new"?

How many miles would you put on it? How long would you keep it?

I think these are the most important questions. Anything out there will basically tow what he wants.

If you are not buying new, the answer is pretty straightforward. 2006/2006.5 LBZ Duramax :thumbsup:

[mzdspd]

I would go with a diesel if you plan to tow that much.. Any 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton gasser will have brutal mileage, power and braking.

I had a 3/4 ton 6.0L sierra (2011) and now a 1/2 ton Sierra 5.3. The 6.0L is much nicer to tow with but I only tow 5-6K (rarely).

I would go 3/4 ton duramax. Good power, mileage and comfort.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

+1 for Duramax if feasible.

[topjava]

Thank you, guys, for your quick responses.

I should've added more info at the first post not to confuse people here.

The truck will be brand new or 2012 after if i'm buying used one.
The GVWR of Tracer Air 300 is 7600lb with tongue weight of 650lb(assume 800 to 900lb final) and Windjammer 3006WK is 9000lb with tongue weight of 850lb(assume little bit over 1100lb final).
As I said on the original post, we really liked the Windjammer 3006wk but I would go with Tracer Air 300 because it fits our needs (3 kids) and budget.

Initially, I would go with diesel but with higher up front cost, maintenance cost and the short daily driving distance, I thought the gas engine might be better fit on me.
This might be wrong since I never own any diesel truck and just heard from forums. Please educate me with your diesel experience whether my situation is ok with diesel.

I don't have a plan to upgrade the trailer to fifth wheel near future so the truck will be with me at least 10 years unless I win 6/49 :-).

I also heard there is 15% to 20% power output drop on gas engine at higher elevation like where we live. I'm wondering the power output drop is noticeable when towing a trailer.

r3ccOs:
Have you decided what you are going to do? It seems like we have similar cases and your recommendation would be helpful to decide.

[HiTempguy1]

Couple of things:

Even though a 1/2 ton may be rated to tow what you are looking at, you are also talking about hauling a family too. I typically budget 200lbs per person, so that's 800lbs of towing capacity removed (uh, I guess three kids, might make it 1000 unless they are young). Beyond that, that 800lbs is also removed from your payload capacity. 1100lb final tongue weight, with 800lbs of additional weight in the cab... most 1/2 tons aren't rated for that much payload. In fact, some trucks are laughably low (there is a certain combo of ford 1/2 ton that ends up with only 1200lb payload capacity IIRC).

You are actually describing the perfect reason to own a diesel, long term value/lower depreciation and it sounds like you are using it quite often. Diesel trucks are regularly selling for $15k to $20k with 300k kms on them. They maintain their value very well.

Keep in mind, diesels after 2006-ish have been hit with big mpg drops because of all the emissions equipment. You'll want to remove that stuff and get a proper tune if you are concerned about mpg.

What is your daily drive distance/time wise? If the truck isn't stored inside a heated area, anything less than a 20 minute drive will be hard on it.

The issue with the ecoboost is arguably, not many of them have hit the 300k km milestone yet so its difficult to judge their longevity. I would recommend one to you, as long as you were ok with poor towing mileage. It will make up for it in being a much better daily driver and getting better unloaded mileage.

Clear as mud? ;)

[ercchry]

The HD f150 is probably one of the highest payload trucks in a half ton... But they sure ride rough (I have a '13 with max tow, hd, 6.5 box) giant ass truck, the turbo should help when at elevation vs a naturally aspirated truck... Haven't done any heavy towing with it but when that thing is in boost its not that great on gas... I'd say it's going to be on par with the v8's with no real benefit there... If you are doing long tows a slightly used diesel might save you some operating costs. An f250 gasser could potentially be the same overall size as my f150... So as a daily I don't think you would be gaining much staying in a half ton

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by ercchry
The HD f150 is probably one of the highest payload trucks in a half ton... But they sure ride rough (I have a '13 with max tow, hd, 6.5 box) giant ass truck, the turbo should help when at elevation vs a naturally aspirated truck... Haven't done any heavy towing with it but when that thing is in boost its not that great on gas... I'd say it's going to be on par with the v8's with no real benefit there... If you are doing long tows a slightly used diesel might save you some operating costs. An f250 gasser could potentially be the same overall size as my f150... So as a daily I don't think you would be gaining much staying in a half ton

The highest rated common crew cab/shortbox combo is GMC and F150

6.2 1500 payload can be spec'd in at 2k and similar shortbox F150 ecoscrew at 2060

Its when you move to the only 6.5 in a crew cab, that you can load a new F150 HD to a massive 2650 (probably stronger frame as well) but the length is 243 inches, which is on par (if not even longer) than a 6.5 box 3/4 ton.

"IF" you are cool with the fact that the new f150 is light... that HD package is pretty darn capable on paper... and if you can deal with the length, its going to probably ride nicer than a 3/4 ton and have way way more GO than a 3/4 ton gasser.

Probably doesn't ride nearly as nice as a non-HD

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by ercchry
The HD f150 is probably one of the highest payload trucks in a half ton... But they sure ride rough (I have a '13 with max tow, hd, 6.5 box) giant ass truck, the turbo should help when at elevation vs a naturally aspirated truck... Haven't done any heavy towing with it but when that thing is in boost its not that great on gas... I'd say it's going to be on par with the v8's with no real benefit there... If you are doing long tows a slightly used diesel might save you some operating costs. An f250 gasser could potentially be the same overall size as my f150... So as a daily I don't think you would be gaining much staying in a half ton

I think everything was quite misleading when the ecoboost came out in 2011...

it replaced the 5.4 and does everything better, including that supposed 20% fuel savings... but doesn't necessary mean its class leading in fuel economy as Ram was coming out with MDS, VVTI, fuel deactivation, and same w/ the GM w/ the 5.3 and 6.0...

but, does it probably tow the best in the half ton market, especially at elevation? maybe?

[topjava]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
[B]Couple of things:


What is your daily drive distance/time wise? If the truck isn't stored inside a heated area, anything less than a 20 minute drive will be hard on it.



This was one of the concerns with diesel. The distance from my home to work is around 15km one way and takes around 15 to 20 minutes. The truck will be also sitting on the driveway during whole winter since the garage is packed with bikes and other stuff for three kids.

Does this create a lot of issues?

[SkiBum5.0]

Lease that Duramax from GSL to test out the diesel. $599 a month and then make up your mind after that.

[spikerS]

I love my ecoscrew for towing. mind you, it isn't the max tow, but it is rated for 8200lbs, and it had zero issues towing into the mountains with 6500 pounds behind it, and that is with the 3.35 gearing.

But the ecoboost is a trade off. I get amazing mileage (for a full size crew cab) in the city and highway. straight highway I have been as low as 8l/100k and as high as 11l/100k. In the city i am usually around.14.5

Now, the trade off is, that when you are towing, don't look at your gas mileage or gauge, it is only going to depress you. My absolute best reported numbers while towing on the highway was 26l/100k, which means my truck with a full tank when towing is good for about 500kms between fill ups.

[SKR]

Originally posted by topjava


This was one of the concerns with diesel. The distance from my home to work is around 15km one way and takes around 15 to 20 minutes. The truck will be also sitting on the driveway during whole winter since the garage is packed with bikes and other stuff for three kids.

Does this create a lot of issues?

I have a diesel and pretty much all I do is go get groceries with it. I haven't had any issues. I don't have the emissions junk that the newer diesels have though.

I don't think you need one, but I do think that a lot of the problems people tell you about diesels are exaggerated.

[ShermanEF9]

Originally posted by spikerS
I love my ecoscrew for towing. mind you, it isn't the max tow, but it is rated for 8200lbs, and it had zero issues towing into the mountains with 6500 pounds behind it, and that is with the 3.35 gearing.

But the ecoboost is a trade off. I get amazing mileage (for a full size crew cab) in the city and highway. straight highway I have been as low as 8l/100k and as high as 11l/100k. In the city i am usually around.14.5

Now, the trade off is, that when you are towing, don't look at your gas mileage or gauge, it is only going to depress you. My absolute best reported numbers while towing on the highway was 26l/100k, which means my truck with a full tank when towing is good for about 500kms between fill ups.

This.

I can tow 9200 lbs with my 3.31s, but pulls like a freight train. also found similar numbers, but never towed a camping trailer or anything. i have heard on the forums that diesel guys don't do much better. the size and aerodynamics of the trailer don't do anyone a favor.

[SOAB]

I'm basically in the same boat as you OP.

travel trailer which weighs about 7300lbs loaded with a dry weight of 6500lbs. tongue weight is about 1200lbs (which is heavy and I'm trying to remedy that).

I tow it with my current 2014 F150 Ecoboost, XLT Screw, 3.73 and max tow. it has 1798lbs of payload. I have had the set-up weighed and I'm within all my axle weights and GVWR. I tow it around Alberta and through BC into Montana on a regular basis. this truck does not struggle with hills at all.

there is one particular hill on HWY 93 heading towards the US border that is fairly steep and I've had trucks pull out to pass me going up the hill and decide to pull back in behind me because they realized I was staying at 100kph.

my lease for this truck is up fairly soon so I've decided to order a new F150 with the HD Payload package and Max tow. because it's a Lariat, the payload will suffer a little bit from the creature comforts so I won't get the full 2650lbs but I expect it to be in the 2200-2400lb range. I opted not to go with the heavy moonroof, BLIS, park assist, etc. for this reason as well. BUT the truck won't arrive until june/july :cry:

I chose this route because 95% of my driving is commute or family duties. I don't want to drive a super duty around with the rough ride and horrible fuel economy for most of the year just to save $20-30 in fuel per camping trip, and it will still fit on my garage.

you have to calculate how much stuff you will actually bring with you. 1000lbs for you and your family as suggested is ridiculous. I'm in the 190 range, my wife and 2 kids weigh maybe 220 total, plus the snacks and drinks they need for a road trip will be at most 450lbs. add in your tongue weight and there is what you need.

having headroom is good but at the expense of higher initial cost, rougher ride, higher maintenance, etc? not for this guy.

[Cos]

.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Cos
For 8000lb to 9000lb range of that second trailer don't get a 1/2 ton. It may be partially RATED for it but I can guarantee that a 30' trailer will wag your truck around. Then add 500# of gear inside, food, water, people, bikes, fire wood, generators, and you'll be well over or damned close to the payload on ANY 1500, regardless of what the tow rating is. My trailer is 4800# dry, with added gear and people I am pushing 6100# with water. I've had 3 half tons, two F150's and a Chevy and in all cases I wouldn't tow much more than what I have with a half ton. When I replaced my last F150 I considered getting a 3/4 ton so if I upgraded to a 26'-28'. Will you see people pulling with it? Absolutely. I've also seen a guy in a Jeep Compass tow my trailer in the campground before. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Get a 3/4 ton at least.

That 7600# trailer would be getting close so you could maybe make it work. I still wouldn't personally. That will be 8500#-9000# at the end of the day.

You don't need a Diesel to get a 3/4 ton chassis. I'd get a 5.7 or 6.2 Dodge with a 6 speed 2500 if it were me in your situation. The motor won't be your limiting factor in either of those trailers cases, it will be the chassis, brakes, suspension, etc.



100%, cheap lease and it isn't like OP already has a truck. If he already HAD the Ecoboost and was getting a good deal on a trailer, it may be worth trying it. However in his case, start out right.

It's just tough to justify a 3/4 ton if you are only using the truck for infrequent towing... If it also has to be a daily driver

No gas engine, especially in a HD will pull better than the ecoboost, even if you had problem with yours

[Cos]

.

[ercchry]

You've seen my beast, right? The hd with screw and 6.5 box isn't going to be all that different size wise to an f250... Plus they are rated to tow something like 11k lbs

[Cos]

.

[btimbit]

Personally, I'd go with a smaller trailer and an F-150. If you're dead-set on a 30' trailer, 3/4 or 1 ton is the way to go.

[ercchry]

Yeah but you had a shorter wheel base and even different axles (6 vs 7 bolt hubs) ....I've been in both the business man's f150, and full blown helper bag equipped powerstroke f250s and the heavy half rides much closer to the 250

[SOAB]

My trailer is 33'9" long from bumper to ball. does it move a little bit behind me with wind and the bow wave of a passing semi? sure it does. enough for me to be worried? not even close.

my old 2005 f150 5.4L towed it and it was rock solid behind it. i had airbags put in the rear springs and the trailer didn't move at all! it actually behaved better behind my that one than current one because of the airbags. i never have problems slowing down or making turns.

I'd rather spend $500 on a half ton to make it behave better for the 5% of the time I tow than suffer for the 95% of my driving life while spending at least 10-15K more for a diesel or HD truck.

[Cos]

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[ercchry]

Max tow is a separate package from the hd package, I have both its not a true heavy half of old ... But much bigger and more payload than the typical screw with 5.5 bed

[redline]

Originally posted by Cos
For 8000lb to 9000lb range of that second trailer don't get a 1/2 ton. It may be partially RATED for it but I can guarantee that a 30' trailer will wag your truck around. Then add 500# of gear inside, food, water, people, bikes, fire wood, generators, and you'll be well over or damned close to the payload on ANY 1500, regardless of what the tow rating is. My trailer is 4800# dry, with added gear and people I am pushing 6100# with water. I've had 3 half tons, two F150's and a Chevy and in all cases I wouldn't tow much more than what I have with a half ton. When I replaced my last F150 I considered getting a 3/4 ton so if I upgraded to a 26'-28'. Will you see people pulling with it? Absolutely. I've also seen a guy in a Jeep Compass tow my trailer in the campground before. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Get a 3/4 ton at least.

That 7600# trailer would be getting close so you could maybe make it work. I still wouldn't personally. That will be 8500#-9000# at the end of the day.

You don't need a Diesel to get a 3/4 ton chassis. I'd get a 5.7 or 6.2 Dodge with a 6 speed 2500 if it were me in your situation. The motor won't be your limiting factor in either of those trailers cases, it will be the chassis, brakes, suspension, etc.



100%, cheap lease and it isn't like OP already has a truck. If he already HAD the Ecoboost and was getting a good deal on a trailer, it may be worth trying it. However in his case, start out right.

:thumbsup: I agree with this, My trailer is 25' and about 7500lbs all in and that is max that I would want to tow safely with my 1/2 ton. Anything bigger and I would be buying a 3/4 ton

I still think my next truck will be a 3/4 ton even with my current trailer, I did want the diesel titan.... but that truck is a real disappointment...

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by redline


:thumbsup: I agree with this, My trailer is 25' and about 7500lbs all in and that is max that I would want to tow safely with my 1/2 ton. Anything bigger and I would be buying a 3/4 ton

I still think my next truck will be a 3/4 ton even with my current trailer, I did want the diesel titan.... but that truck is a real disappointment...

I really say if you're going HD, go with a diesel...

a crew cab shortbox 3/4 gasser (even a 1 ton) is not much heavier than a modern half ton... 6500lbsish

[SOAB]

Originally posted by Cos

I am surprised to hear that SOAB, not that I doubt you, just interesting how that big of a trailer doesn't cause you any issues. I pulled a 33' bumper pull for my friend (not far, from Airdrie to Calgary) while his truck was getting fixed and it was scary as hell. He had a 3/4 Dodge Cummins and I understand why he dailyied that thing.

with my old 2005, I was towing the trailer on a secondary highway at about 100kph. A semi truck was coming the other way and right as it passed me, the air pressure ripped my bug deflector right off the front of my hood! it flew up and over the side onto the shoulder. my trailer didn't even move behind me. it was rock solid.

the problem with that truck was that I was over the GVWR by about 300lbs so I eventually traded her in for my current. The 2014 is not as well behaved while towing but it's still one handed driving, even down HWY 22 and through the crowsnest pass.

I am pretty sure I'll be adding airbags on the next truck just because of this even though I will have more than enough payload. I'm willing to spend $500 to not have to drive a superduty as a daily.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by SOAB


with my old 2005, I was towing the trailer on a secondary highway at about 100kph. A semi truck was coming the other way and right as it passed me, the air pressure ripped my bug deflector right off the front of my hood! it flew up and over the side onto the shoulder. my trailer didn't even move behind me. it was rock solid.

the problem with that truck was that I was over the GVWR by about 300lbs so I eventually traded her in for my current. The 2014 is not as well behaved while towing but it's still one handed driving, even down HWY 22 and through the crowsnest pass.

I am pretty sure I'll be adding airbags on the next truck just because of this even though I will have more than enough payload. I'm willing to spend $500 to not have to drive a superduty as a daily.

as a swiss army knife... the modern half ton is an exceptional vehicle and I'd say the primary focus of product development in the truck category.

Pretty much any half ton with a tow package, and the largest engine is going to do what most weekenders require of it

add airbags (as opposed to more leafs) and you're going to cover yourself for that "max" capability for the odd time you are going to use that capacity.