Competition board rules TREB must release Real Estate Sales Data

[RealJimmyJames]

So far, this is just in Toronto, but it was widely seen as a test case for the rest of Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/treb-real-estate-competition-tribunal-1.3570431
This will open up the market to a variety of services that operate at lower fee structures than traditional real estate agents, including online-only brokerages.

Suspect over time, we will see the number of real estate agents drop, and only a small number of very strong individuals will thrive, while the bottom and middle of the market is taken over by newer business models.


Thoughts? Is this a big deal?

[RedDawn]

Unfortunately, this doesn't change anything because only realtors are able disseminate this data. It's not a true API service that any third-party can tap into and build a website around.

We're still stuck with realtor-developed websites that have intentionally horrible UIs meant to wear you down trying to use it until you give up and call a realtor.

Until cities start maintaining an open database with real estate listing/sales information and allowing any third party to build a service on top of that database (Imagine AirBnb developing a website on top of this database :drool: ), and we can bypass Realtors, we'll continue to be scammed outrageous commissions for Realtor's laughable "services".

Realtors are the worst pyramid scheme on the face of this planet. Unlike Quixtar or Scientology - who you can go your whole life avoiding - Realtors got their paws on the basic need of housing. Now everyone has to participate in their shameless pyramid scheme :guns:

[speedog]

Can't you already get sold price lists from CREB realtors?

edit: Aah, I see that the issue is making the data public. I don't know about this, should every auto dealership be forced to provide lists that identify the price they sold every vehicle at? Should tirebob be forced to give up his businesses' sold price information or inrich or anyone else who owns a company that sells a product or service?

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by RedDawn
Unfortunately, this doesn't change anything because only realtors are able disseminate this data. It's not a true API service that any third-party can tap into and build a website around.

We're still stuck with realtor-developed websites that have intentionally horrible UIs meant to wear you down trying to use it until you give up and call a realtor.

Until cities start maintaining an open database with real estate listing/sales information and allowing any third party to build a service on top of that database (Imagine AirBnb developing a website on top of this database :drool: ), and we can bypass Realtors, we'll continue to be scammed outrageous commissions for Realtor's laughable "services".

Realtors are the worst pyramid scheme on the face of this planet. Unlike Quixtar or Scientology - who you can go your whole life avoiding - Realtors got their paws on the basic need of housing. Now everyone has to participate in their shameless pyramid scheme :guns:

I prefer zolo over realtor.com I presume they are just tapping into the mls database somehow though.

[nobb]

How well does a discount brokerage like Comfree compare to an MLS listing? I feel like it still doesn't get the same exposure as a proper MLS listing using a realtor.

Although I understand realtors spend alot of time dealing with flakers and showing people around, they simply are not a necessity in today's age of the internet + Kijiji. It's an old way of doing things, similar to the dealership model of new car sales, and only still exists because of industry laws restricting more efficient sales models. You wouldn't sign a contract with a car salesman before you find a car to buy, so to do so in buying a home is a joke.

[crazieness]

This actually could turn into a big deal and has created some good dialogue at my brokerage about the future of the real estate business. I'm a firm believer that information should be free and it's my performance that I should get paid for.

[crazieness]

Originally posted by RealJimmyJames
Suspect over time, we will see the number of real estate agents drop, and only a small number of very strong individuals will thrive, while the bottom and middle of the market is taken over by newer business models.


AGREED! :thumbsup:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by nobb
How well does a discount brokerage like Comfree compare to an MLS listing? I feel like it still doesn't get the same exposure as a proper MLS listing using a realtor.

ComFree without buying agent commission is no different than Kijji, Ebay or Beyond postings.

Making sold prices public isn't that big of deal IMO. Most good buying agents will pull that for you to manage expectations.


Originally posted by RealJimmyJames
So far, this is just in Toronto, but it was widely seen as a test case for the rest of Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/treb-real-estate-competition-tribunal-1.3570431
This will open up the market to a variety of services that operate at lower fee structures than traditional real estate agents, including online-only brokerages.

Suspect over time, we will see the number of real estate agents drop, and only a small number of very strong individuals will thrive, while the bottom and middle of the market is taken over by newer business models.


Thoughts? Is this a big deal?

In this case, sounds like the agent want to use the data to fan the flames in the TO market to pressure buyers to commit before they are priced out.

The reverse could be true in Calgary where people may wait it out if data shows a downward or no growth trend.

I think real estate agent will still be needed in the future because we buy houses may be 2-5 times in a lifetime. You will still need someone in the know to go thru the process.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by speedog
I don't know about this, should every auto dealership be forced to provide lists that identify the price they sold every vehicle at? Should tirebob be forced to give up his businesses' sold price information or inrich or anyone else who owns a company that sells a product or service?

Do they have a monopoly on those industries? If so, then yes, the government seems to think so, and I would agree.

Eventually it all comes crashing down anyways when somebody figures out how to "disrupt" the monopoly. Sometimes its just not worth the effort to do so, but sooner or later someone has a bright idea to do something about it.

It's kind of the whole point of the government guarding against monopolies, it can make it extremely difficult to break into the market when a company has a monopoly. Look at Tesla and trying to be a startup car manufacturer and the whole "dealership" crap.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by speedog
I don't know about this, should every auto dealership be forced to provide lists that identify the price they sold every vehicle at? Should tirebob be forced to give up his businesses' sold price information or inrich or anyone else who owns a company that sells a product or service?
Big difference though. Realtors willingly provide sales prices to all their customers. The data is available to their customers, but not the general public.

[suntan]

Originally posted by RedDawn
Unfortunately, this doesn't change anything because only realtors are able disseminate this data. It's not a true API service that any third-party can tap into and build a website around.

We're still stuck with realtor-developed websites that have intentionally horrible UIs meant to wear you down trying to use it until you give up and call a realtor.

Until cities start maintaining an open database with real estate listing/sales information and allowing any third party to build a service on top of that database (Imagine AirBnb developing a website on top of this database :drool: ), and we can bypass Realtors, we'll continue to be scammed outrageous commissions for Realtor's laughable "services".

Realtors are the worst pyramid scheme on the face of this planet. Unlike Quixtar or Scientology - who you can go your whole life avoiding - Realtors got their paws on the basic need of housing. Now everyone has to participate in their shameless pyramid scheme :guns: Are the data available somehow? That's all I would need.

[macman64]

Originally posted by suntan
Are the data available somehow? That's all I would need.

The city provides it through the assessment website but is usually very out of date and limited in what you can access.

[RealJimmyJames]

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/newsalert-federal-appeals-court-rules-real-estate-agents-must-make-data-public-2
Case may be heading to the Supreme Court.

My take is that if realtors loose their stranglehold on the data , it will dramatically reduce the need for traditional realtors.

[ExtraSlow]

Not really new news but a new article in the financial post about it anyway.
http://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/haider-moranis-bulletin-housing-data-doesnt-belong-under-lock-and-key

[ExtraSlow]

Should hear more news soon:
https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/supreme-court-to-weigh-in-on-hugely-important-real-estate-data-battle
Supreme Court to release a decision today.

[googe]

I forgot how awful the situation is in Canada with realtors desperately trying to maintain their gatekeeping in the RE market. We have several sites with a ton of really good data that you don’t even need to sign up for. Super helpful. Redfin in particular has really disrupted the market. It gives you more info than even realtors get access to in canada, and way more than the public gets in canada. Zillow is another good one. Since data is open, whoever can put the best interface on it and collect from the different sources wins in the market. Unlike the REBs which have no incentives to innovate and strong incentives to withhold data so you need to talk to a realtor.

Then again RE fees are even worse here, so they had it coming. Standard rate is flat 6%. So on a $1M house, in Seattle you’d dish out $60k to the realtor for doing sweet fuck all, where with “normal” (unnegotiated) rates you’d pay $37k for that in AB.

[Gestalt]

We've bought several revenue properties over the last 2 years or so and i can ienquvaclly say the realty business in Canada is a criminal organization

The fees too high, the service useless, the market manipulating and controlling is criminal.

Weve almost lost deals because is realtors. The comisions system is crooked and encourages low prices and rushed close for sellers. Theres no paperwork provided to prove what they say .

I laugh when i see those should have used realtor commercials. I found issues in 7 minutes on google that the realtor misses.

Needs to be made illegal and blown apart.

[ExtraSlow]

There's so many subpar realtors out there. They are worse than nothing. They've given the entire profession a bad name, especially to anyone who hasn't used a great one like Jordan.

Honestly, the industry has done this to itself. Allowing shitty realtors to make a good living has created this issue.

[msommers]

Well said.

[KPHMPH]

Ive said it before and I’ll say it again. Realtors are overpaid for the work they actually do. Realtors don’t find buyers anymore and I’ve heard it from many people that when they hire a realtor to sell their house they straight out get told “There’s 5000+ other realtors in Calgary and they will bring buyers, it’s not my job to find you a buyer”

Rates need to come down because houses are so expensive now a days.

[max_boost]

Gonna be a lot of unemployed people if you wanna cut the middle guy out of everything :dunno:

[Gestalt]

Gonna be a lot of unemployed people if you wanna cut the middle guy out of everything :dunno:

Good. We don't need leaches stealing peoples money. We hought a 400,000 place last. Realtor fees were more then what the owner paid off through 3 years. Blood swett and tears and maintenance and hassles.

Guy walks in does a couple hours work and takes 3 years of your effort as a fee, and tje system is stacked so you almoat have to use them.

Its stupid, and we need more unskilled labour, ao thats ok.

[KPHMPH]

I have a house for sale for $600,000 right now.

At 7/3 that equals $22,000. Twenty two fucking thousand dollars.

For what? To take some pictures and have an open house? Are you kidding me.

I’m stuck with a realtor because Calgary is very weird when it comes to selling your house alone so I told the guy that he can have a flat $7000 for his “work” Saves me $4000. When it comes down to the deal though and we are $2000 apart I expect both realtors to take it out of their pockets when it comes down to the final hour.

[msommers]

I think there definitely are good realtors and they tend to be the ones who make a good go of it. Quick communication, have a good market sense in terms of accurate, realistic pricing for buying and selling, know appliances/finishings etc well, stage, hire professional photographers...

So many jokers in the industry, it's easy to see where the general disdain comes from.

[Gestalt]

I have a house for sale for $600,000 right now.

At 7/3 that equals $22,000. Twenty two fucking thousand dollars.

For what? To take some pictures and have an open house? Are you kidding me.

I’m stuck with a realtor because Calgary is very weird when it comes to selling your house alone so I told the guy that he can have a flat $7000 for his “work” Saves me $4000. When it comes down to the deal though and we are $2000 apart I expect both realtors to take it out of their pockets when it comes down to the final hour.
Exactly. Place we boughf before the sellers realtor woildnt drop comission in half since we represent ourselves. Buyer doesnt need a realtor. Waited out 3 months, he cancelled listing and we did it private

One of the bigest scams going.

[Xtrema]

I have a house for sale for $600,000 right now.

At 7/3 that equals $22,000. Twenty two fucking thousand dollars.

For what? To take some pictures and have an open house? Are you kidding me.

I’m stuck with a realtor because Calgary is very weird when it comes to selling your house alone so I told the guy that he can have a flat $7000 for his “work” Saves me $4000. When it comes down to the deal though and we are $2000 apart I expect both realtors to take it out of their pockets when it comes down to the final hour.

The biz is old school but even with this set up, a lot of people couldn't make a living out of it and you have to have 1 transaction per month just to keep working. The 2nd transaction is when you and your family can eat.

Yes. Lots of people already tried the tech to do away with realtors but a lot people are still not comfortable with this purchase without an "advisor" of sorts. Most people will do may be 3-4 deals in their life. Nobody will have the expertise of a someone is doing it as a day job.

IMHO, the 7/3 deals is fair for up to $1M in Calgary. Especially for the buying agents who potentially use up a lot of time with nothing to show for it. Selling agent is the one that have connection with advices and stagers and the one that's doing the open house which ruin the weekends.

Now there are definitely other solutions that doesn't stick with old 7/3 formula, and they can definitely move houses but they tends to recommend selling at the low side of market because their model is volume and by moving it quick. And I have seen and deal with a number of realtors that shouldn't be in the biz. But I think that's the same for all industries. 50% of IT guys I met has no reason to be working in IT.

[gwill]

I read a great article on the closing of town in New York. They did 20 billion in sales in the few years they were opened yet they were forced to close their real estate brokerage this year.

The article dived into how much tech companies are changing their market and it's had serious effects on brokerages.

It will still be a long ways for things to change here but the perfect start is opening up the data and letting competition flourish.

I don't think opening data to everyone will prevent people from using a realtor but it will certainly level the playing field with better options out there.

[googe]

My issue isn't that realtors are useless. They provide a valuable service to a lot of people, both for buyers and sellers. A lot are great, and hard working. It's just that we need the market to place a value on that work. In the current structure, which is literally a cartel, the market can't do that. So, they aren't being paid what they're worth, and some portion of that fee is purely rent-seeking.

[dirtsniffer]

Supreme court decided not to hear the TREB appeal.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/treb-real-estate-sale-prices-1.4795903

[HiTempguy1]

The biz is old school but even with this set up, a lot of people couldn't make a living out of it and you have to have 1 transaction per month just to keep working. The 2nd transaction is when you and your family can eat.
.

My family has done real estate for years. Realtors have been fucking useless for easily a decade once online listings became a thing. We never use realtors, any properties I've bought have never been through realtors, and I'll never use a realtor if I have the choice.

When you get paid $10k for one deal, if you do that once per month, thats $120k per year. Fuck off that you are just "getting by" on that, thats upper middle class.

Fucking Beyond :rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

[sabad66]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

this is pretty awesome. Finding sales history self serve is way better than having to ask a realtor every time.

[89coupe]

You can see Sold listings on any realtors website now.

Mine offers it
https://realtybybrad.com/recip.html#!/wps/-/noframe~true/recip/38548/idx.search?idx_v2_map_pos=51.04781080000001|-114.05926180000002&idx_v2_map_zoom=14

[ExtraSlow]

You can see Sold listings on any realtors website now.

Mine offers it
https://realtybybrad.com/recip.html#!/wps/-/noframe~true/recip/38548/idx.search?idx_v2_map_pos=51.04781080000001|-114.05926180000002&idx_v2_map_zoom=14

Quick search on my street shows that your website has two data points vs the honestdoor website showing sale history for every single house. Not really comparable.

[89coupe]

Quick search on my street shows that your website has two data points vs the honestdoor website showing sale history for every single house. Not really comparable.

Just customize the search.

[Chandler_Racing]

You can see Sold listings on any realtors website now.

Mine offers it
https://realtybybrad.com/recip.html#!/wps/-/noframe~true/recip/38548/idx.search?idx_v2_map_pos=51.04781080000001|-114.05926180000002&idx_v2_map_zoom=14

To access this listing please create a free account....

[89coupe]

To access this listing please create a free account....

Haha, so you want it for free but you don’t want to take a few minutes to setup an account that’s free?

[Tik-Tok]

That's neat. I like seeing the "last sold" date too, too put it in perspective

[you&me]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

That's neat, thanks!

[ExtraSlow]

Haha, so you want it for free but you don’t want to take a few minutes to setup an account that’s free?

Brad, but why bother accessing it through your website if it's a) no better and b) less convenient? I don't see the value when there's an easier alternative.

[cet]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

That's pretty cool. I like how it shows any permits pulled as well.

[89coupe]

Brad, but why bother accessing it through your website if it's a) no better and b) less convenient? I don't see the value when there's an easier alternative.

All I’m saying is it’s easy to access sold information anywhere. How you choose to use it is an entirely different subject.

[Buster]

that site is badass! great find.

RIP Jordan's pricing request thread, lol

[The BMW Guy]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

That's awesome. Don't have to bug my realtor at all. Now if I only I can just set up viewings without the realtor being present too. All the key boxes nowadays are all bluetooth/wifi anyway.

[89coupe]

That's awesome. Don't have to bug my realtor at all. Now if I only I can just set up viewings without the realtor being present too. All the key boxes nowadays are all bluetooth/wifi anyway.

Huge liability there. I can’t imagine any home owner or builder allowing people to enter their property unattended.

[sabad66]

All I’m saying is it’s easy to access sold information anywhere. How you choose to use it is an entirely different subject.

it's not about how to use the data, it's about how to much of a pain it was to get it in the first place.

i.e. before this site, you either had to ask a realtor, or go on your website and create an account, and it still was a pain to use. Now, go to this site and have much richer information with a great interface without having to create an account.

I understand how this is a negative thing for realtors such as yourself but at least be realistic here instead of implying nothing has changed.

[you&me]

That's awesome. Don't have to bug my realtor at all. Now if I only I can just set up viewings without the realtor being present too. All the key boxes nowadays are all bluetooth/wifi anyway.

Working on it - https://www.bodecanada.com/howitworks

[89coupe]

it's not about how to use the data, it's about how to much of a pain it was to get it in the first place.

i.e. before this site, you either had to ask a realtor, or go on your website and create an account, and it still was a pain to use. Now, go to this site and have much richer information with a great interface without having to create an account.

I understand how this is a negative thing for realtors such as yourself but at least be realistic here instead of implying nothing has changed.

It’s not negative at all, I think it’s great. The more information available the better.

[Chandler_Racing]

Haha, so you want it for free but you don’t want to take a few minutes to setup an account that’s free?

Exactly.

[rx7boi]

ExtraSlow

Neat site. Thanks for sharing.

Got to see what the house was worth when it was first built.

[CompletelyNumb]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

Amazing tool. Great post. But I'm beyond irritated that they chose to make their cluster colours the same as park colours. This is a colourblind persons nightmare haha.

[RedDawn]

Amazing tool. Great post. But I'm beyond irritated that they chose to make their cluster colours the same as park colours. This is a colourblind persons nightmare haha.

The site is still a work in progress. Funny how it's already a better service than anything you'd get from the greasy realtors, despite the realtors being around for decades and charging thousands for their fake "help" when using their service. Realtors intentionally cripple all innovation so you an have an artificial reason to use a realtor...:barf:

[Darell_n]

Well, it only shows Calgary and Edmonton with no satellite communities. So not useful at all to many people.

[msommers]

Looks like someone has come out with an easily searchable database for this type of data in select cities, including Calgary. https://www.honestdoor.com/map
Had a little fun this morning clicking around my street. Still feel great about what I paid for my place.

This is awesome!! Thanks for sharing. The condos don't seem as update-to-date but still for what it has right now, incredible!

[ExtraSlow]

TREB in the news again:
https://financialpost.com/real-estate/class-action-toronto-industry-commissions-go-ahead


Class action against Toronto real estate industry over commissions gets green light
Federal Court has granted approval for a class-action lawsuit alleging price-fixing and anti-competitive practices
Author of the article: Shantaé Campbell
Published Sep 26, 2023 • Last updated 2 hours ago • 2 minute read

After two years of deliberations, the Federal Court has granted approval for a class-action lawsuit alleging price-fixing and anti-competitive practices to proceed against the real estate industry in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).

The lawsuit, filed in April 2021 on behalf Toronto resident Mark Sunderland and anyone who sold a home in the GTA after 2010, alleges misconduct by several of the nation’s leading brokerages, including Century 21, Remax and IproRealty Ltd. The Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA) and the Toronto Regional Real Estate Board (TRREB) are also named in the lawsuit.
On Sept. 25, Chief Justice Paul Crampton permitted the case to proceed, positing that there exists a plausible argument that rules put illicit restrictions on the pricing of buyer brokerage services. The respondents had petitioned the court to dismiss the claim, citing a lack of merit.
The lawsuit contends that the brokerages engaged in an agreement to artificially increase buyer brokerage commissions, which were shouldered by home sellers in the GTA. It is also alleged that CREA and TRREB facilitated and contributed to the execution of this arrangement.
Commission structures for real estate agents and their brokerages differ nationwide, usually involving a percentage-based commission derived from a home’s sale price. In Alberta and British Columbia, the commission structure is typically seven per cent on the initial $100,000 and three per cent on the remaining balance. Conversely, in Toronto, commission is five per cent on the entire amount of the sale.
Although the seller is responsible for paying the entire commission, it is divided between the brokerage representing them and the one representing the buyer.
According to Garth Myers, a partner at Kalloghlian Myers LLP — the law firm responsible for filing Sunderland’s lawsuit — the agreement to split the commission obstructs market competition by forcing sellers to shoulder costs that would typically not be incurred in the absence of such an arrangement, consequently restricting the ability to negotiate prices and leading to inflated brokerage commissions.
“What we’re hoping to achieve in this case, is to eliminate these rules, which will result in cost savings to real estate sellers and buyers in the Toronto market,” Myers said. “We think there’s massive public benefit if we are successful. And so far, the court has agreed with us.”
Kalloghlian Myers is pursuing compensation not just for Sunderland, but also for those who have sold residential real estate dating back to 2010.
“We won’t stop until we can get compensation for sellers who have been impacted by this,” stated Myers.
In an email, the Canadian Real Estate Association said, “we continue to believe the claims against TRREB, CREA and other defendants are without merit, and we will continue to defend our members in this case.”

[pheoxs]

5% commission on the entire sale is nuts.

[bjstare]

5% commission on the entire sale is nuts.

Exactly my thoughts as I read that.

[benyl]

It's what buys Lambos and M5 Competitions.

[msommers]

It's almost as if price-fixing and anti-competitive practices strongly benefit a specific group of people.

[roopi]

5% commission on the entire sale is nuts.

7/3 is also nuts.

[max_boost]

What should it be?
What’s “fair”

[bjstare]

What should it be?
What’s “fair”

Significantly less than the current model. Realtors add a lot of value if they do their job properly... but they also shoulder absolutely zero risk, and have proven time and again that they employ shady sales tactics not fitting of fiduciaries.

[89coupe]

It’s crazy considering most new homes in good neighborhoods are selling between $1-2.5M

Commissions between $17k to $40k per transaction, and that’s just one side.

Sell 20 of those a year :eek:

[max_boost]

It’s crazy considering most new homes in good neighborhoods are selling between $1-2.5M

Commissions between $17k to $40k per transaction, and that’s just one side.

Sell 20 of those a year :eek:

:bigpimp: :bigpimp:

[ExtraSlow]

Probably fits here. This will impact Canada, and treb will be the first place this lands.
https://apnews.com/article/national-association-of-realtors-agent-commissions-lawsuits-d62a66cb80639be3c4c3b429053a22c5

[94boosted]

Probably fits here. This will impact Canada, and treb will be the first place this lands.
https://apnews.com/article/national-association-of-realtors-agent-commissions-lawsuits-d62a66cb80639be3c4c3b429053a22c5

Good. I hope something similar happens here.

[89coupe]

Probably fits here. This will impact Canada, and treb will be the first place this lands.
https://apnews.com/article/national-association-of-realtors-agent-commissions-lawsuits-d62a66cb80639be3c4c3b429053a22c5


How will it impact Canada? We already have negotiable commission rates. There are no fixed rates.

[killramos]

How will it impact Canada? We already have negotiable commission rates. There are no fixed rates.

Some people really need their hands held with these sort of things.

Ironically the kind of people who probably really need a realtor hahaha

[89coupe]

Some people really need their hands held with these sort of things.

Ironically the kind of people who probably really need a realtor hahaha

Did you use a Realtor?

[pheoxs]

One take away from that is the seller / listing won’t set the commission for the buying realtor rather it’d be up to the buyer to negotiate it themselves with their realtor. That does seem like a reasonably smart change that should happen.

[killramos]

Did you use a Realtor?

Absolutely, I get great value for the money from Beyonds #1 Realtor

[ExtraSlow]

How will it impact Canada? We already have negotiable commission rates. There are no fixed rates.

There is the appearance of fixed rates, and anti-competitve behaviour by TREB, which is who will get sued first. The merit of those claims will need to be judged by someone smarter than me. I don't buy houses, so I am admittedly not an expert.

[Brent.ff]

Absolutely, I get great value for the money from Beyonds #1 Realtor

lol, shots fired.

[RedDawn]

How will it impact Canada? We already have negotiable commission rates. There are no fixed rates.

Except the rates aren't actually negotiable. Realtors advertise the rates are negotiable, but then deny all attempts to negotiate with canned gems provided by their broker like this:

"I don't work for free"
"I know my worth and won't move on my fee"
"A good agent will save your more money than you'll pay in commission so just pay full commission"

It's like Costco advertising "ALL PRICES ARE NEGOTIABLE" while telling all their cashiers to deny all attempts at negotiation. This means the prices aren't negotiable at all while Costco continues gaslighting the public that they are. Just like realtors and their "Negotiable" commission rates.

[msommers]

Absolutely, I get great value for the money from Beyonds #1 Realtor

What value did you get for paying $xx,xxxx?

[RedDawn]

The settlement is also ending the "buyer's agents are free" lie that has been tossed around here and anywhere else realtors crawl out of the shadows:

From the settlement:
"prohibit MLS Participants, subscribers, and other real estate brokers and
agents accessing the multiple listing service from representing to a client or customer that
their brokerage services are free or available at no cost to their clients, unless they will receive
no financial compensation from any source for those services"

The best part is that the DOJ still has their coup de grace lawsuit on the go which will prohibit seller's agents from offering any form of compensation to buyer's agents. This will take a major step in freeing real estate from the financial leach that is the entire realtor "industry".

[RedDawn]

Average U.S. 6% commission cost per hour @ 40 hours:

$100,000 @ 6% = $6,000 or $150 hr

$200,000 @ 6% = $12,000 or $300 hr

$300,000 @ 6% = $18,000 or $450 hr

$400,000 @ 6% = $24,000 or $600 hr

$500,000 @ 6% = $30,000 or $750 hr

$600,000 @ 6% = $36,000 or $900 hr

$700,000 @ 6% = $42,000 or $1,050 hr

$800,000 @ 6% = $48,000 or $1,200 hr

$900,000 @ 6% = $54,000 or $1,350 hr

$1,000,000 @ 6% = $60,000 or $1,500 hr

Average U.S. 3% commission cost per hour @ 40 hours:

$100,000 @ 3% = $3,000 or $75 hr

$200,000 @ 3% = $6,000 or $150 hr

$300,000 @ 3% = $9,000 or $225 hr

$400,000 @ 3% = $12,000 or $300 hr

$500,000 @ 3% = $15,000 or $375 hr

$600,000 @ 3% = $18,000 or $450 hr

$700,000 @ 3% = $21,000 or $525 hr

$800,000 @ 3% = $24,000 or $600 hr

$900,000 @ 3% = $27,000 or $675 hr

$1,000,000 @ 3% = $30,000 or $750 hr

[killramos]

What value did you get for paying $xx,xxxx?

$xxx,xxx unconditional over list price in 72 hours was a good start.

[msommers]

And you think that was specific to that realtor or the overall market conditions? Was it priced low to (A) sell quickly and (B) incite a bidding war?

I don't need answers to these btw

[bjstare]

And you think that was specific to that realtor or the overall market conditions?

I had the same experience with Jordan, and definitely attribute some of it to him. Obviously the market is the market, but he helped with staging, photos, etc. There’s zero chance it would have been marketed as well if we didn’t use him, and I would have spent lots of hours of my own time to get a worse outcome.

[ExtraSlow]

And you think that was specific to that realtor or the overall market conditions? Was it priced low to (A) sell quickly and (B) incite a bidding war?

I don't need answers to these btw

Its hard to prove this either way.

[Brent.ff]

And you think that was specific to that realtor or the overall market conditions? Was it priced low to (A) sell quickly and (B) incite a bidding war?

I don't need answers to these btw

If it sold for what you wanted or more, does it matter? Jordan also sold ours for overlist in 6 hours.. Maybe it should have been priced higher (though who knows, maybe it was perfect?), but we got more than we expected, and didnt have to fart with realtors coming to our house for 2 months. A house across the street took 4 months to sell at less then list (and less than ours). Zero complaints.

[killramos]

And you think that was specific to that realtor or the overall market conditions? Was it priced low to (A) sell quickly and (B) incite a bidding war?

I don't need answers to these btw

Who knows. My place was by no means an easy sell, and I know he brought in several people to view it even before the listing went up. Now maybe those people would have viewed it later, but he did seem to check all the boxes in terms of leveraging his contacts and experience to maximize my exposure and get me the most competition for the home.

But he did do an excellent job and I would have no issue contracting his advices again.

In our opinion, we did not price it low. We were all blown away by how much it sold for and took our money and ran to the new place we bought a few blocks up the road ( if you recall it was a complete tear down that I bought for under lot value to build on ).

[Buster]

I would not hesitate to call Jordan when it is time to sell. If agents were all like Jordan, we probably wouldn't need to have this conversation. In my experience his value exceeds his cost. Most realtors could not make this claim, unless posting instagram pictures of food and beverage is considered "value" nowadays.

The people here including bjstare and killramos and myself who are talking about Jordan are not unsophisticated folk being snowed by some flashy bus stop bench ads. If anyone would be critical of these types of services, it would be us.

[msommers]

Its hard to prove this either way.

Exactly.

[ExtraSlow]

So in the end, if the customer knows the full cost of the service, feels that they have alternatives, and still feels they got good value for the service, than that's what matters.
If each party had to scratch a separate cheque to the realtor, that'd be some good transparency.

[suntan]

Have the two realtors fight to the death for the commission.

Solves a lot of issues.

[ercchry]

I’ve yet to get less than $7k under ask, or have an accepted offer take longer than a week while using Jordan. (Haven’t moved a property in a hawt market yet either). I have had to strongly suggest higher asking prices a couple times though.

The value I see is more so thanks to his network of supporting professionals. Just like the rest of his life, he keeps his standards high.

The true reason to use any realtor though is for a value that you cannot put a number on… to never have to directly deal with the unwashed public. Fuck that, especially in something as major as a home purchase, the general public is awful.

[89coupe]

If I wasn’t a realtor my approach would be, list it myself on the MLS and offer the buying agent their full commission.

On a million dollar home it will save you $17000.00

Just find a good real estate lawyer.

:dunno:

[JRSC00LUDE]

People who don't understand the value of an exceptional real estate agent also don't understand the value of an exceptional lawyer, an exceptional tax accountant, etc. etc.

And that's fine. It just means you've either never had one, don't have enough exposure to the transactions to understand WHEN you've had a bad or exceptional one, or you're just one of those people who think they're smarter and better at a lot of things than you actually are so you'll never have the capacity to know differently. Which is also fine, the world is full of medicore performers, it's mostly run by them.

This is one of my favorite bash topics haha

[msommers]

… to never have to directly deal with the unwashed public. Fuck that, especially in something as major as a home purchase, the general public is awful.

Dude your entire Client base is compromised of the unwashed public :rofl:

[ercchry]

Dude your entire Client base is compromised of the unwashed public :rofl:

Nah, I’m buffered there too