View Full Version : 2016 Formula 1 Belgian Grand Prix
phreezee
08-27-2016, 09:23 AM
Alonso vs Hamilton to see who starts further back.
https://i.redd.it/9msy2i6w8xhx.gif
Redlined_8000
08-27-2016, 09:36 AM
Ive been looking on my telus TV to watch this. What channel does it play? and what time?
rage2
08-27-2016, 10:08 AM
Tsn 5 for sure. Sometimes it's on tsn1 as well if there's nothing else more important on. TSN5 has the full drivers parade, pre race, race, and post race coverage.
schocker
08-27-2016, 01:37 PM
Belgian Grand Prix
Friday, Aug. 26 – Practice at 7:45 a.m. ET on TSN2
Saturday, Aug. 27 – Qualifying at 7 a.m. ET on TSN
Sunday, Aug. 28 – Pre-Race at 6:30 a.m. ET on TSN
Sunday, Aug. 28 – Grand Prix at 7:55 a.m. ET on TSN5
Sunday, Aug. 28 – Post-Race at 10 a.m. ET on TSN1/4/5
Another 6am race, always messes up my sleep schedule :rofl:
Should be a good race, hopefully ferrari can podium this weekend. Also will be interesting to see what Ocon can do.
http://i.imgur.com/1pTjzxX.jpg
Gutierrez gets a 5place penalty for never being aware of his surroundings. :nut:
revelations
08-27-2016, 01:53 PM
Prediction = Hamilton will make top 10.
rage2
08-27-2016, 02:23 PM
Top 10 is a given. You can see from the Rosberg vs Verstappen quali laps that the Merc is going to have a huge edge on the straights. I'm going to say top 6 for Ham, and podium if there's a SC involved.
There's also a chance of rain tomorrow which means Ham could be 1st or last. :rofl:
phreezee
08-27-2016, 03:12 PM
Alonso won the battle against Hamilton:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJn403Qhfsh/
npham
08-27-2016, 05:31 PM
Excited to get some racing on TV again. Should be entertaining to see what Hamilton can do from the back of the pack and driving with purpose. He's been on cruise control for a while now.
schocker
08-28-2016, 06:15 AM
Oh come on Ferrari :rofl:
Obviously a first turn that tight is always going to be a bad time.
rage2
08-28-2016, 06:16 AM
Holy fuck! What a crash. Nothing left of that Renault.
And Alonso is in 6th. :rofl:
Edit 4th! Haha
Edit red flag, free pit stop. Huge break for Ham in 5th and Alonso in 4th.
rage2
08-28-2016, 06:43 AM
So Ros on mediums now, Ric still on softs but needs to use Mediums at some point. Ham is on new softs and has 3 new sets available and has gone through his medium already. Ham is going to win this one. :eek:
rage2
08-28-2016, 07:17 AM
Welp. Stupid Merc strategy for Ham. He's going to have to pit again with top 2 running till the end.
revelations
08-28-2016, 09:49 AM
3rd place, unreal. Wonder how Nico would have faired in the same situation.
Also, what happened to Kimi? From 3rd -> 9th ?
rage2
08-28-2016, 09:51 AM
Kimi got Vettel'd.
revelations
08-28-2016, 10:18 AM
And appears Verstappened got Vettel'd too .... looks like a 3 way into that first corner
rage2
08-28-2016, 10:21 AM
Ya. I'd say it was vettels fault for squeezing in so tight.
schocker
08-28-2016, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by rage2
Ya. I'd say it was vettels fault for squeezing in so tight.
I think he had no idea max tried to squeeze through and figured kimi would turn in more. Max's driving style otherwise was quite dangerous but not penalty causing. Pushing kimi and Sergio off the track at the chicane was pretty dickish.
revelations
08-28-2016, 04:49 PM
Kimi looked more like he had Vettel in his blind spot and turned too much. He had plenty of room to his left still.
phreezee
08-28-2016, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by schocker
Max's driving style otherwise was quite dangerous but not penalty causing. Pushing kimi and Sergio off the track at the chicane was pretty dickish.
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2016/8/gallery---the-best-images-from-belgium/jcr:content/featureContent/manual_gallery_0/image22.img.2048.medium.jpg
Haha. Max will likely cause a collision before he starts getting penalties. I feel like he's the untouchable poster child right now.
Great race for Force India; would like to see Hulkenberg get his first podium eventually.
rage2
08-28-2016, 09:18 PM
I think Max is getting way too much criticism here. There's a reason why he's not being penalized or even investigated. He's defending hard to the letter of the rules. Sure it might be a dick move, but it's perfectly legal. If he was making passes and pushing people off the track to make a pass, that's a different story, but defending, you're allowed to make the moves that he's making.
His moves are no different than the moves done by the greats, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso. The difference is that he's new and has t earned the "respect" to make those moves, which is bullshit. I mean look at this race, the Kemmel straight move was identical to Schumacher/Hakkinen fight from 2000 at the same spot, and his defense in the corners is no different than Hamilton pushing Rosberg wide when defending against him through the last couple of years. Or hell, even Kimi himself pulled the same move on Hamilton at the last chicane in 2008 and Hamilton got penalized for it.
npham
08-28-2016, 10:26 PM
Pretty crazy race. I just finished watching it an hour ago and the first 15 minutes was insane. So much shit going on. My favourite part is when Ricciardo has to hang out with the Merc boys, and it's so fucking awkward lol
revelations
08-28-2016, 10:43 PM
^ would be awesome to have Seb, Daniel and Lewis at the post race press conference. That would get some jokes/laughs, I would think.
Lewis never jokes with Nico (Nico is a robot) but with Seb hes pretty chill.
Kimi is a bit of a whiny baby at times ....
rage2
08-28-2016, 10:51 PM
Kimi had a reason to be whiny. It's better than Seb's whining over back markers every single race. Funny enough, he didn't bitch about it this race probably because he ended up last and was a backmarker himself. :rofl:
schocker
08-29-2016, 09:40 AM
Here is part of the reason for the turn 1 crash :rofl:
http://i.imgur.com/tWptWZs.jpg
https://streamable.com/4y90
Still racing incident overall though kimi was just the middle man and got all the grief from max
Verstappen explained that the reason he was so aggressive against both Raikkonen and Vettel in the race was as a result of what happened at the first corner.
"If they screw up my race, I'm not going to make it easy for them," he said. "I think they should understand that.
"I'm not going to say: 'come on through'. But all that happened after turn one. If turn one hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been so aggressive and pushed Raikkonen out like that."
killramos
08-29-2016, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by schocker
Here is part of the reason for the turn 1 crash :rofl:
http://i.imgur.com/tWptWZs.jpg
https://streamable.com/4y90
Still racing incident overall though kimi was just the middle man and got all the grief from max
Pretty deceiving image when max was MAYBE 6 inches further back than Kimi coming into turn 1, Kimi turned in crazy aggressive and forced Max off the track as you can see in your image. That's just max avoiding a collision at that point.
Ultimate Max was there and Kimi completely shut the door on him at the 11th hour, which is racing at the end of the day and wasn't even close to the problem.
That would have been the end of it and just wheel to wheel racing from then on but then Vettel comes in and pushes Kimi off the track ( best I can tell he just drove his own race from in front of Kimi probably unaware of the situation with Max and that kimi had no leeway to move onto the kerbs) , who bounces into Max ruining the race for all 3 of them.
Max definitely contributed to the collision, but if either of the ferraris employed a modicum of situational awareness not of this would have happened. Up to them if they think a favorable position in turn one is worth losing the race.
rage2
08-29-2016, 10:05 AM
Watch the 2015 start at Spa. Pay attention to Vettel in the Ferrari...
rgwIAD02SVY
Max stole his move haha.
phreezee
08-29-2016, 10:12 AM
The turn 1 crash was basically all Vettel's fault. However, Kimi might have been able to avoid if Max wasn't there. Martin Brundle said it best that Max was lacking maturity and wanted his lost places back right there and then, instead of waiting for a more opportune time.
I think Max does break the rules and gets away with it. In Anthony Davidsons Skypad review, I think everyone agreed that the defense was VERY late and dangerous, but lateness is subjective and on the edge of penalty. This also didn't make for good wheel to wheel racing, as Max either forces the other driver to lift/brake or go off track. ( Sidenote: Best wheel to wheel pass of the race was Perez on Massa). In the lap previous, Max didn't leave a car width even though Kimi had basically completed the pass and forced him off. This is clearly against the rules and he got away with it. Even in the previous race with the flick left, then full right defense was clearly 2 moves. Again, petulant poster child, or in the words of Niki Lauda, Max needs "psychiatric help."
As for driving the same as Schumacher, I don't believe this is the same as the defense came just before Hakkinen committed right (starts at 26s). Same or not, I think respect for other drivers is lacking on Max's part.
82mlSrgU7YM
War of words has begun:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-vettel-and-raikkonen-should-be-ashamed-of-themselves-811205/
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/08/niki-lauda-hits-out-at-unrepentant-verstappen-after-belgian-gp-drama/
schocker
08-29-2016, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by killramos
Pretty deceiving image when max was MAYBE 6 inches further back than Kimi coming into turn 1, Kimi turned in crazy aggressive and forced Max off the track as you can see in your image. That's just max avoiding a collision at that point.
Ultimate Max was there and Kimi completely shut the door on him at the 11th hour, which is racing at the end of the day and wasn't even close to the problem.
That would have been the end of it and just wheel to wheel racing from then on but then Vettel comes in and pushes Kimi off the track ( best I can tell he just drove his own race from in front of Kimi probably unaware of the situation with Max and that kimi had no leeway to move onto the kerbs) , who bounces into Max ruining the race for all 3 of them.
Max definitely contributed to the collision, but if either of the ferraris employed a modicum of situational awareness not of this would have happened. Up to them if they think a favorable position in turn one is worth losing the race.
That's why I posted the video :rofl:
Super aggressive moves on such a tight corner that can gain you a tiny advantage or ruin your entire race. All the debris also caused problems for many other drivers. I'm just on the max hate train though after originally being a fan :burnout:
rage2
08-29-2016, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by schocker
That's why I posted the video :rofl:
Super aggressive moves on such a tight corner that can gain you a tiny advantage or ruin your entire race. All the debris also caused problems for many other drivers. I'm just on the max hate train though after originally being a fan :burnout:
He must've watched this video haha.
YBYHY4SKa3o
I agree though, it's a calculated risk, sometimes you make it through, and sometimes you don't. As a fan of the sport, I want not only Max, but other drivers to make that move every single time, because god dammit I want to be entertained!
Chandler_Racing
08-29-2016, 01:24 PM
Alonso had a superb drive; Lewis had a great showing as well.
There is a fine line between aggressive and wreck less; IMO max crossed the line.
Pumped to watch the race at Spa; wonder which one of the three engines Lewis has will be running. :nut:
killramos
08-29-2016, 01:26 PM
As long you find that happy medium and aren't driving like Maldonaldo or Perez I like the moves from Max as well. Regardless of my callousness toward RBR I am a bit of a fan of Max ( so long as he is behind MB ), its so entertaining when he podiums over Ricciardo
Personally I think Vettel should have been penalized for the collision, his move reminded me of something a CPU would do in a video game. Complete disregard for anyone else being on the track. He literally had no good reason to turn into Kimi there.
This was the first F1 race I've watched from start to finish. I don't get the rules about blocking and running people off the track. The day before I watched NASCAR at Road America and those guys pretty much just do whatever they want, so all this talk about rules and penalties had me confused.
I guess open wheel cars probably don't take much abuse so you don't want them smashing into each other all day, but the way I understood it was that you're not allowed to block a car trying to pass you. Is that right?
phreezee
08-29-2016, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SKR
This was the first F1 race I've watched from start to finish. I don't get the rules about blocking and running people off the track. The day before I watched NASCAR at Road America and those guys pretty much just do whatever they want, so all this talk about rules and penalties had me confused.
I guess open wheel cars probably don't take much abuse so you don't want them smashing into each other all day, but the way I understood it was that you're not allowed to block a car trying to pass you. Is that right?
Basically you can defend the inside or outside, not both. You have to commit to one defense.This is to prevent cars launching off the back of one another as F1 has higher speeds. Zig zagging lead to this happening to Mark Webber.
3gMKi_5jCOw
The other rule is that if a car has a significant portion of their car alongside, you have to give them room and not run them off.
rage2
08-29-2016, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Alonso had a superb drive; Lewis had a great showing as well.
Alonso had a bit of a brain fart with Hulk coming out of the pits...
Originally posted by killramos
Personally I think Vettel should have been penalized for the collision, his move reminded me of something a CPU would do in a video game. Complete disregard for anyone else being on the track. He literally had no good reason to turn into Kimi there.
It's turn 1 incident. Really, the countless penalties in some races piss me off. Makes racing drivers not want to race for fear of reprimand. Vettel took a gamble, and he lost. He was last place after turn 1, that's punishment enough for the risk he took.
killramos
08-29-2016, 02:27 PM
Not sure how driving into a space occupied by 2 other cars and ruining the race for all 3 is "racing".
It all worked out fine and dandy for my driver in the championship which i am thankful for but writing 1.5 of the major teams out of the race because he didn't know how to use a mirror like a typical Calgary driver is not my idea of a great race.
Kimi vs Max that was racing. Vettel's move was pure Hurr Durr with nothing to gain from it. 2 feet to the left and he would have still been ahead of Kimi and probably on the podium.
TBH there have been way to many turn 1 incidents this year, to the point where imo instigating an incident involving multiple cars in turn one needs to be handled more harshly from the stewards. I don't car if it leads to them pulling the driver out of the race. Beats losing 4 cars in the first lap on a regular basis.
schocker
08-29-2016, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by rage2
Alonso had a bit of a brain fart with Hulk coming out of the pits...
The game of chicken that nobody won :rofl:
Turn 1 was definitely a racing incident out of all the incidents on the track. Looking forward to Italy. Don't love the track, but all the straights should be able to see what the ferrari summer improvements are capable of.
rage2
08-29-2016, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by killramos
Not sure how driving into a space occupied by 2 other cars and ruining the race for all 3 is "racing".
From Vettel's perspective, he assumed it was only Kimi there and making a calculated risk that if there was another car on the other side of Kimi, he's screwed. He pushed Kimi in tight to ensure he's ahead of his teammate out of turn 1. He could've given more space, but that would've risked Kimi getting past him. So yes, it was racing, and it was a risk that fucked him over.
If it was the other way around (Kimi on the outside) he wouldn't have defended as hard, just like countless boring defending that Kimi has done this season, and one reason why he's being owned by Vettel in the same car.
phreezee
08-29-2016, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by schocker
Looking forward to Italy. Don't love the track, but all the straights should be able to see what the ferrari summer improvements are capable of.
Arrivabene was super pissed after Spa, and all the pressure on Ferrari at their home race makes me really excited for Monza. That's 4 races in a row without a podium for them now.
phreezee
08-29-2016, 02:54 PM
"If turn one hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been so aggressive and pushed Raikkonen out like that."
This is the quote that irks me about Max. Openly admitting to road rage due to a previous incident. He is fast, but needs some attitude adjustment.
Originally posted by phreezee
Basically you can defend the inside or outside, not both. You have to commit to one defense.This is to prevent cars launching off the back of one another as F1 has higher speeds. Zig zagging lead to this happening to Mark Webber.
The other rule is that if a car has a significant portion of their car alongside, you have to give them room and not run them off.
Oh yeah, I forgot sometimes open wheelers turn into airplanes. I guess that's probably a good rule then. Just seemed weird.
rage2
08-29-2016, 07:02 PM
Here's an awesome explaination of the various rules of engagement for passing, with pics.
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
Thanks, that was a pretty clear write up. Apparently there's a lot to be aware of. That's why it was so jarring coming from watching the roundy round cars banging away on each other with no rules the day before, to a very engineered race here.
phreezee
08-29-2016, 08:10 PM
Here's the replays:
Max went fully off track to push Kimi off. How this isn't a penalty is beyond me.
https://streamable.com/wmem
Max doesn't move until after Kimi shows his intention on the inside.
https://streamable.com/thxm
rage2
08-29-2016, 10:01 PM
First video, if you look at Max's line through the corner, he was actually leaving enough room for Kimi until they touched. Once they touched, he slid, had some oversteer, compromised his line and went wide. Even if they didn't touch and he used all the track (and pushed Kimi out), there's no rule against that when you're defending.
2nd video, again, he's allowed to do that. He makes his one move, and he can choose when and how fast he wants to move over.
Max knows the rules well enough to piss off other drivers.
speedog
08-29-2016, 10:42 PM
There are penalties for not passing properly? Aren't they supposed to be racing or is this turning into some sort of gentlemen's country club sport?
phreezee
08-29-2016, 11:09 PM
No we are talking about penalties for not defending properly.
First replay, Max was never making that corner with his trajectory as he broke later. Nico got a penalty for doing the same thing on Max and he whined about it. One case was Nico didn't turn to make the corner, the other was Max didn't brake to make the corner.
Second video, the lateness implies that Max committed to his defense on the left (his one move).
Found a great quote for turn 1:
"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.
If you go for a gap that is no longer there, you are a Pastor Maldonado" - Ayrton Senna
I'm just trolling now :rofl:
rage2
08-30-2016, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by phreezee
First replay, Max was never making that corner with his trajectory as he broke later. Nico got a penalty for doing the same thing on Max and he whined about it. One case was Nico didn't turn to make the corner, the other was Max didn't brake to make the corner.
There is a HUGE difference between the 2 scenarios. First off, Max was defending against Kimi, so he had a right to that space just as much as Kimi. Yes he did brake later, but he was making the corner until they touched. Hell, even if he couldn't make the corner, you can never prove that at this stage because as soon as they touched, he lost grip and slide well wide of the racing line. That's why it was inconclusive to draw a penalty.
In the Rosberg case, he was attacking, and not only did he brake later, he kept braking and took the corner very late and slow to give Max zero options other than off the track. So not only did he divebomb on the inside, he slowed down to block max from attempting a potential crossover. That's a huge no-no. You have to give the defender a chance to defend.
The Maldonado comparisons are the same reason why he was penalized so much. Maldonado was getting into incidents as the attacker way more than the defender. Divebombing into corners, using other cars to slow himself down. Can't do that shit.
phreezee
08-30-2016, 08:17 AM
I'm just fully onboard the F1 hate train of the week. That's why I love F1, you can hate as hard as you cheer. :D
Wow, replays are down. Sucks for internet discussions like this when FOM have been scouring the internet for copyright infringements lately.
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