View Full Version : Zipper Merge, do or don't?
cidley69
11-13-2016, 09:21 PM
It's been in news in US and Canada lately.
When a lane of traffic is closed further ahead, do you merge asap, or wait for the place where the closed lane ends to merge?
Personally I feel like leaving the one lane empty is poor use of traffic space, so I use the lane until it ends.
Is that efficient driving, or being a dick?
Which do you do?
Throw the signal light on and hope someone lets me in before i have to come to a stop when the lane ends
speedog
11-13-2016, 09:38 PM
Again?
Wasn't this just about beat to death not too long ago here on beyond?
jacky4566
11-13-2016, 09:45 PM
Yea there is a thread somewhere about this somewhere. In conclusion, Zipper Merge YES and AB Transport sucks at educating the mass about it.
BavarianBeast
11-13-2016, 10:07 PM
Too many cunts in this city that won't let you over if you try to merge like a zipper. I move over whenever I have a chance while trying to make the most of the merge lane.
Just got back from 15,000km of driving between Australia and New Zealand and I must say that everyone there for the most part drives very courteously. Easy to merge like a zip there. Very different feel when your on the roads there.
BigMass
11-13-2016, 10:13 PM
I go to the very end. It causes more problems when people try to merge too early and end up stopping or creating backups in their lane before they should be occurring. It's like people stopping at the start of a merge lane instead of speeding up to traffic speed and actually merging. It only causes problems for people that actually know how to drive.
bjstare
11-14-2016, 08:12 AM
Right to (or near) the end. Drives me crazy to see traffic backed up in a single lane, and an entire empty one beside it, when there's a system in place to prevent just that from happening.
jwslam
11-14-2016, 08:39 AM
I get maybe about 10 cars to the end before I merge in. There's always the genius who goes all the way to the end, doesn't know how to merge and sits there full stop waiting for a 5 car length space to open up.
Back to the through lane, there's always the lady who comes to a full stop waiving 5 cars in
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
max_boost
11-14-2016, 08:49 AM
All the way to the end is the best way
dirtsniffer
11-14-2016, 09:05 AM
The only correct way is to merge at the end. If you're in the through lane done let anyone in until the end.
Early mergers are the reason the closing lane moves twice as fast as the the through lanemail.
ExtraSlow
11-14-2016, 10:04 AM
Zipper merge is the correct, and most efficient way to do this. In my experience, it's practiced by less than 5% of drivers in Calgary. We need better education. Signage before constructions zones would be pretty effective, since folks are usually sitting in traffic in that spot, and they might be receptive.
J-hop
11-14-2016, 10:11 AM
Guys how about we switch to a less beat to death topic like lane splitting?
Gestalt
11-14-2016, 11:02 AM
Traffic is simple.
Have enough lanes, forget the bike lane bs, minimize control signs and devices, get rid of arbitrary speed limits.
We don't have the population for fancy gimmicks.
C_Dave45
11-14-2016, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by jwslam
I get maybe about 10 cars to the end before I merge in. There's always the genius who goes all the way to the end, doesn't know how to merge and sits there full stop waiting for a 5 car length space to open up.
Back to the through lane, there's always the lady who comes to a full stop waiving 5 cars in
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Yeah those are annoying. Another one is Southbound Crowchild exiting onto Eastbound Glenmore. PM rush hour, lane 2 & 3 are backed up to Flanders. I will drive down the #1 lane as far as possible and then zip into an empty spot close to the exit. The best is when the lane just starts to move again, there's always one person not paying attention and leaves a gap.
HOWEVER...the annoying part is those that try this, can't find a spot and so SIT in the #1 lane waiting to get in, actually stopped and backs up the lane for the through users.
I take that gamble and the odd time I haven't found a spot. I consider it I've missed my turn off and then have to go down into Lakeview and make a Uturn. I will not stop in that #1 lane. That would be a dick move.
tirebob
11-14-2016, 11:10 AM
Zipper all day, every day!!
cidley69
11-14-2016, 11:16 AM
Yes that is one of the worst examples of terrible driving technique: the merge via stopping with blinker on, waiting for someone to let them into the line of traffic.
Or when one lane is barely moving, the super slow mow merge, that blocks lane 1 for way longer than required; if they'd only drive until they find a natural break......
jwslam
11-14-2016, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by C_Dave45
I take that gamble and the odd time I haven't found a spot. I consider it I've missed my turn off and then have to go down into Lakeview and make a Uturn. I will not stop in that #1 lane. That would be a dick move.
I agree. But 99% of Calgary road users who use this method are dicks and will not miss exits at all costs.
C_Dave45
11-14-2016, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by jwslam
I agree. But 99% of Calgary road users who use this method are dicks and will not miss exits at all costs.
This irritates me to no end. It seems no matter WHERE they are, if they're physically able to drive their car to their turn, they will do it. Even if it means travelling across 4 lanes of Deerfoot and stopping everyone in their way.
There comes a point when you've missed your turn-off. Suffer the consequences, and take the next exit.
theken
11-14-2016, 07:15 PM
Super simple fix, leave a space. If everyone left room there would be no issues. Every issue is avoidable. By following at a way further distance
16hypen3sp
11-20-2016, 11:47 PM
I educated some of my coworkers on zipper merge tonight and I thought they were going to rip my head off.
They think it's 100% wrong and you should join the thru lane queue way, way before your lane ends. No one should be jumping the queue.
AB Trans did a release on this too... (May have been posted before.)
https://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType29/Production/DB85.pdf
Minimalist
11-21-2016, 10:27 AM
Full license retest (written and road) every two years ought to stop all this nonsense, most never knew the rules of the road and can't fathom something so complex as learning them. Zipper merge as a practical concept ought to be asked at every job interview, so now you are unemployed and can't drive if you are unable to see the Zipper is quicker.
Can't pass the tests, take transit and stop making our roads inefficient and dangerous.
Other pet-peeve about Calgary drivers... not signaling when they are turning off of a traffic circle. This stuffs up those waiting to get on the circle as we are waiting for you to pass, oh wait you turned. Thanks dick!
dirtsniffer
11-21-2016, 10:32 AM
you think it's reasonable to have the entire driving population take a road test every 2 years? :banghead:
lilmira
11-21-2016, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
I educated some of my coworkers on zipper merge tonight and I thought they were going to rip my head off.
They think it's 100% wrong and you should join the thru lane queue way, way before your lane ends. No one should be jumping the queue.
AB Trans did a release on this too... (May have been posted before.)
https://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType29/Production/DB85.pdf
Ask them if they zipper merge at the chair lift on the skihill or form one line only.
Minimalist
11-21-2016, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by dirtsniffer
you think it's reasonable to have the entire driving population take a road test every 2 years? :banghead:
Why not? Fear of failing? Fear of drivers who can actually drive? I'd include winter driving skills in the test as well, just like in Sweden.
In CA a Firearm Safety Certificate is good for five years, must retest at that point. You'd have to agree vehicles are more dangerous and do more harm than firearms. Yet you are tested once as a teen and good to go for life.
I let my license expire as I was working outside of Canada as a non-resident, shocked to return and be required to do both the written and road test all over again in two days. Had to study a few hours as I was not going to fail. I did learn some new rules and relearned some old ones. Passed the road test no problem after avoiding a 50 km/hr t-bone on the passenger side after a car ran a very solid and old red light. Tester turned white and said "Yeah, you've passed" Helped a bit that I was in a Smart Car, might have seemed more than it was.
All this is wasted thought, in a decade or two we'll all be in self-driving cars running error free, zipping like mad and wondering why we drove like we did long ago. :whocares:
StreetRacerX
11-21-2016, 11:07 AM
If I can merge in before the lane ends without disrupting traffic I will, otherwise it's all the way to the end.
J-hop
11-21-2016, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Minimalist
Full license retest (written and road) every two years ought to stop all this nonsense, most never knew the rules of the road and can't fathom something so complex as learning them. Zipper merge as a practical concept ought to be asked at every job interview, so now you are unemployed and can't drive if you are unable to see the Zipper is quicker.
Can't pass the tests, take transit and stop making our roads inefficient and dangerous.
Other pet-peeve about Calgary drivers... not signaling when they are turning off of a traffic circle. This stuffs up those waiting to get on the circle as we are waiting for you to pass, oh wait you turned. Thanks dick!
2 years is pretty aggressive but I think mandatory retesting is a great idea. I've retested twice in 5 years for work and it definitely makes me think a little more about my driving skills (lack there of). I think every 5 years would be fine and then increase the frequency above a certain age.
One thing as a forum we can do (or stop doing) is when someone asks for an easy registry to pass their class 5 don't tell them. Kinda silly to say that Calgary drivers are shit and then tell someone where to go to easily get their license...
tirebob
11-21-2016, 11:42 AM
The zipper merge is well studied and proven to speed up traffic in these situations. I think it would be a huge improvement if they were doing road work or accident attendance and they placed signs well ahead announcing the work with signage asking traffic to travel to the end and merge zipper style. I have seen this when driving in Europe and it works awesome!
I think part of the problem here in Calgary is people who are lifers here were used to low volumes of traffic so it was easy and simple to get into one line early and carry on, but now with the traffic volume it just isn't efficient. You end up with single lanes backed up for miles interfering with proper exit and entrance lanes etc, which only magnifies the problem.
Zippering at the end is not rude... It is the proper way to keep the entire flow of traffic moving at the most efficient way possible.
dirtsniffer
11-21-2016, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Minimalist
Why not? Fear of failing?
because the cost to tax payers for marginal increases and safety are not worth it..
There are 3,000,000 drivers in AB. so 1.5 million renewals a year, at a cost of $150 and assuming 10% of people take the test twice that is an annual expense of $250 million per year. :rofl:
OTown
12-06-2016, 03:49 PM
I don't mind zipper merging but that's only if the lane ends and it's bumper to bumper traffic. IMO if you have ample time and space in free flowing traffic (at speed) to change lanes, then do so. I find there are some idiots who speed down the entire merge lane to pass 10 vehicles that are at speed and cut them off with a last minute unsafe move and slow down everyone causing a bottleneck in behind. Now that's a dick move.
As an example - Westbound Glenmore Tr at 14 St SW - the rightmost lane is an off-ramp to 14 ST. There are so many people that use that lane as a passing lane and cut in right at the junction, forcing people who are actually using the off-ramp to go to 14 ST to wait while this dick decided to block their lane. Northbound Deerfoot @ Mcknight is another example.
killramos
12-06-2016, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Minimalist
In CA a Firearm Safety Certificate is good for five years, must retest at that point. You'd have to agree vehicles are more dangerous and do more harm than firearms. Yet you are tested once as a teen and good to go for life.
There is so much :nut: with this entire statement.
rx7boi
12-08-2016, 09:17 AM
:rofl: :rofl: in his mind that is a bulletproof analogy.
Don't pop his bubble!
M.alex
12-08-2016, 11:39 AM
I wonder what all those butt-hurt people over zipper merging think about the time when merging onto deerfoot southbound on the calf-robe bridge meant you got a 10ft long lane and a yield sign before being dumped onto the highway :rofl:
speedog
12-08-2016, 12:17 PM
Been here since 1979 and don't ever recall a yield sign to get onto Deerfoot or a 10 foot lane.
edit: correction, I do remember that yield.
rage2
12-08-2016, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by speedog
Been here since 1979 and don't ever recall a yield sign to get onto Deerfoot or a 10 foot lane.
Don't have anything older than 2009 when they redid this, but hey the yield is still there!
https://goo.gl/maps/k97RM5RQkam
Beyond thread talking about it:
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=131670
Moar:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/deerfoot-safety/showthread.php?s=&postid=2523468#post2523468
Originally posted by sexualbanana
1) Deerfoot and Peigan Trail (Southbound)
- The lane that Peigan connects with Deerfoot is too short to be a merge, and the speed on Deerfoot is too fast to be a yield. A lot of people stop there because it's a very short period of time to merge onto Deerfoot, which I don't blame them. It's almost an immediate merge before the lane runs out. And once you stop, you don't have any room to gain any speed to try to yield onto Deerfoot, nor are any of the drivers already on Deerfoot able to slow down enough for you to yield safely onto Deerfoot, lest they put themselves at risk of getting rear-ended.
JustinMCS
12-08-2016, 01:23 PM
Zipper makes sense but SO many people have an issue with it, for example, on Memorial when the lane reversals are in effect, people honk and dont let you in on purpose and wave the middle fingers around. I stopped the other day and pointed at the large sign that says:
J-hop
12-08-2016, 03:53 PM
Just a reminder when heading south on crowchild at 16th, the lane that exits onto 13th ave NW and 16th ave ramp connects to is NOT an acceptable place to 'zipper merge'. Holy hell that causes problems.
rage2
12-08-2016, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by J-hop
Just a reminder when heading south on crowchild at 16th, the lane that exits onto 13th ave NW and 16th ave ramp connects to is NOT an acceptable place to 'zipper merge'. Holy hell that causes problems.
Only idiots zipper merge there, but everyone knows to use the shortcut now and it's not much of a problem anymore.
What I hate is ppl taking their sweet ass time, huge gaps to cars in front defeating the purpose of the shortcut.
thetransporter
12-10-2016, 12:52 AM
this sign means stop in Calgary , now with zipper merge what will happen
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/68000/68091/68091_129_w4-3_c_sm.gif
lilmira
01-11-2017, 01:17 PM
We already know but here is another article.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3174719/its-ok-to-cheat-when-merging-into-traffic-ama-says/
Swank
01-11-2017, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by thetransporter
this sign means stop in Calgary , now with zipper merge what will happen I love it when you come around the corner from one of those only to see a 'lane ending' sign, it's a merge in disguise :devil:
16hypen3sp
01-11-2017, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by lilmira
We already know but here is another article.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3174719/its-ok-to-cheat-when-merging-into-traffic-ama-says/
Did you catch the comments on Facebook about this today?
Yikes. Cringe inducing.
firebane
01-12-2017, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by lilmira
We already know but here is another article.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3174719/its-ok-to-cheat-when-merging-into-traffic-ama-says/
I have no issues with zipper merging where I have a problem is those who use this means to slip in at the last minute because they don't watch or plan their routes.
rage2
01-12-2017, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by firebane
I have no issues with zipper merging where I have a problem is those who use this means to slip in at the last minute because they don't watch or plan their routes.
That makes no sense. If you're talking about people slipping in last minute on a through lane, that's not zipper merging.
cidley69
01-12-2017, 11:18 AM
Zipper merging is getting lots of air time last few days. The AMA is on the record endorsing it. I think lots of old people listen to AMA, this might be real progress.
I heard the CBC radio discussing it, and they were referring to practice of staying in thru lane as "virtuous" and using the merge lane as "cheating".
What a f'ed-up perspective they are spreading!
HiTempguy1
01-12-2017, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by rage2
That makes no sense. If you're talking about people slipping in last minute on a through lane, that's not zipper merging.
The problem is that people try and use zipper merging as an excuse for douchey driving like that.
That's why you get a negative reaction from some people about zipper, because they just think it is that.
Mitsu3000gt
01-12-2017, 11:36 AM
How about just merge whenever you want to and force the person to either let you in or hit you? That is the Calgary way.
Driving yesterday some D-bag in bumper-to-bumper morning rush hour traffic on black ice roads simply started moving over, there was no space for him, and there was no stopping him. Stuck his middle finger out the window and just moved over. I couldn't stop because it was sheer ice, and missed hitting him by probably 2 inches, and the rear end collision would have probably been ruled my fault. The other half of drivers don't know how to merge at all, and come to a complete stop instead until there is an enormous space to move into. That is the average Calgary driver and why proper merging will never, ever, work in this city.
If you don't drive like an asshole in this city it takes way longer to get anywhere. That and so few people have winter tires "because SUV" so everything moves at a crawl when the first snowflake hits.
rage2
01-12-2017, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
How about just merge whenever you want to and force the person to either let you in or hit you? That is the Calgary way.
Driving yesterday some D-bag in bumper-to-bumper morning rush hour traffic on black ice roads simply started moving over, there was no space for him, and there was no stopping him. Stuck his middle finger out the window and just moved over. I couldn't stop because it was sheer ice, and missed hitting him by probably 2 inches, and the rear end collision would have probably been ruled my fault. The other half of drivers don't know how to merge at all, and come to a complete stop instead until there is an enormous space to move into. That is the average Calgary driver and why proper merging will never, ever, work in this city.
I thought I was the only victim of this, but yea, about a month ago exact same thing happened to me. Guy signals, and just moves in. I'm a pretty defensive driver, I wasn't even in his blind spot, pretty much exactly right beside me and pushes me off the road because I had absolutely nowhere to go in such a short period of time, then gives me the finger. Suffice to say, my 3 year old learnt to say fuck that morning.
Some days I want to buy a beater, drive around the city with dashcams, and just stop driving defensively. Can probably make a decent tax free salary from claims.
Manhattan
01-12-2017, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
How about just merge whenever you want to and force the person to either let you in or hit you? That is the Calgary way.
Driving yesterday some D-bag in bumper-to-bumper morning rush hour traffic on black ice roads simply started moving over, there was no space for him, and there was no stopping him. Stuck his middle finger out the window and just moved over. I couldn't stop because it was sheer ice, and missed hitting him by probably 2 inches, and the rear end collision would have probably been ruled my fault. The other half of drivers don't know how to merge at all, and come to a complete stop instead until there is an enormous space to move into. That is the average Calgary driver and why proper merging will never, ever, work in this city.
If you don't drive like an asshole in this city it takes way longer to get anywhere. That and so few people have winter tires "because SUV" so everything moves at a crawl when the first snowflake hits.
If it was bumper to bumper traffic you should have been going slow enough to stop. Merging is a shared responsibility. People need to drive more defensively in this city.
On the topic of zipper merges, I find the people who don't allow someone to merge in at the last minute by following the car in front of them by a few inches to be the biggest jerks. People have a real zero sum mentality - if I let you in then I lose.
HiTempguy1
01-12-2017, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Manhattan
On the topic of zipper merges, I find the people who don't allow someone to merge in at the last minute by following the car in front of them by a few inches to be the biggest jerks. People have a real zero sum mentality - if I let you in then I lose.
Why are you entitled to merge in front of everyone that played by the rules?
Mitsu3000gt
01-12-2017, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by rage2
I thought I was the only victim of this, but yea, about a month ago exact same thing happened to me. Guy signals, and just moves in. I'm a pretty defensive driver, I wasn't even in his blind spot, pretty much exactly right beside me and pushes me off the road because I had absolutely nowhere to go in such a short period of time, then gives me the finger. Suffice to say, my 3 year old learnt to say fuck that morning.
Some days I want to buy a beater, drive around the city with dashcams, and just stop driving defensively. Can probably make a decent tax free salary from claims.
Sounds very similar. They literally just start moving over. They think you're the asshole because you can't stop in time and it looks like you're purposely not letting them in.
As you said, it would be nice to have a POS car and 360 degree dash cams and just let people like that hit you.
Originally posted by Manhattan
If it was bumper to bumper traffic you should have been going slow enough to stop. Merging is a shared responsibility. People need to drive more defensively in this city.
On the topic of zipper merges, I find the people who don't allow someone to merge in at the last minute by following the car in front of them by a few inches to be the biggest jerks. People have a real zero sum mentality - if I let you in then I lose.
I drive very defensively. What he did has nothing to do with "shared responsibility". He literally drove into me, and if I didn't move or stop he would have hit me. There was an unexpected black ice patch so when I tried to brake hard enough such as to let him in, I couldn't. I was probably going 10-20 km/h max and with the flow of traffic. It's not like he signaled and waited for a space to slowly appear (which I could have easily accommodated), he just went for it.
If you leave even close to a car length in front of you, someone slips in, all of a sudden giving you zero space, so leaving more than a car length is not an option in this city if you want to maintain the safest possible distance.
Manhattan
01-12-2017, 12:46 PM
^
How would you rear-end his car when he's driving into you?
The reason people don't signal before switching lanes is because more often that not people in this city will actually speed up to pass you. So it becomes the chicken or egg argument. I've unforunately slowly developed the habit of signaling at the last second after many years of driving here.
Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Why are you entitled to merge in front of everyone that played by the rules?
Because the rule is to share the road. I have merged in at the last second on occasions when I'm running late. And I always let others in because I don't know what their situation might be.
HiTempguy1
01-12-2017, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Manhattan
Because the rule is to share the road.
No, the rule is don't be a dickhead driver. Everyone has places to be, or else they wouldn't be on the road. Just because you are late doesn't make you somehow entitled to go against the zipper rule and/or butt in line where ever you please because you feel you are above it. :dunno:
Edit-
I have merged in at the last second on occasions when I'm running late.
Just had to quote this for the entitlement overload :rofl:
rage2
01-12-2017, 01:28 PM
Where's the rule for don't be a dickhead driver and the official definition of a dickhead driver? Are these unwritten rules?
I drive to the rules of the road to optimize my travel time. If that means lane jogging for the best lane, zipper merging, using offramps to bypass congestion and other sneaky shortcuts, that makes me a smart driver and not a dickhead driver.
HiTempguy1
01-12-2017, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by rage2
I drive to the rules of the road to optimize my travel time. If that means lane jogging for the best lane, zipper merging, using offramps to bypass congestion and other sneaky shortcuts, that makes me a smart driver and not a dickhead driver.
And it is that mentality, winner take all, that causes the roads to be the way they are now. Congratulations on being part of the problem :thumbsup:
Of course, I was talking about this:
Originally posted by rage2
That makes no sense. If you're talking about people slipping in last minute on a through lane, that's not zipper merging.
Which we are in agreement on. Followed up by this:
Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The problem is that people try and use zipper merging as an excuse for douchey driving like that.
That's why you get a negative reaction from some people about zipper, because they just think it is that.
Of why the zipper doesn't work here. With manhatten and yourself apparently advocating for doing the exact thing that will never allow the zipper to become mainstream.
Manhattan
01-12-2017, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Just had to quote this for the entitlement overload :rofl:
The only entitlement here is from a lack of empathy towards others.
Mitsu3000gt
01-12-2017, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Manhattan
^
How would you rear-end his car when he's driving into you?
The reason people don't signal before switching lanes is because more often that not people in this city will actually speed up to pass you. So it becomes the chicken or egg argument. I've unforunately slowly developed the habit of signaling at the last second after many years of driving here.
I would have hit him probably on his rear left side (closer to a T-bone I guess, but diagonal), either right on that side or on the corner of his rear left bumper, depending on where final contact was. Depends how much room I could make to accommodate his forced merge. He began the whole process by extending his muddle finger out the window, rather than using his signal light, and it looked like he was going to drive directly into my passenger door. I braked out of reaction when I saw him coming toward me, which gave him barely enough room to get the corner/nose of his car in front of me, then he just kept going, finger still out the window, and I was on ice so I didn't have the normal stopping ability. In hindsight maybe I should have just let him drive directly into the side of my car, but he was probably road-raging to the max already so who knows what might have happened to me and I don't have a dash cam.
Pretty normal for Calgary, usually isn't just done when the roads are a little better.
The bigger problem is with the way people drive, if you *don't* also drive like that, it takes you way longer to get anywhere. So the problem is cyclical and it snowballs.
OTown
01-12-2017, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by rage2
Where's the rule for don't be a dickhead driver and the official definition of a dickhead driver? Are these unwritten rules?
I drive to the rules of the road to optimize my travel time. If that means lane jogging for the best lane, zipper merging, using offramps to bypass congestion and other sneaky shortcuts, that makes me a smart driver and not a dickhead driver.
Glad to know that you think you are more important than everyone else.
Patience seems to be a lost virtue.
rage2
01-12-2017, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Of why the zipper doesn't work here. With manhatten and yourself apparently advocating for doing the exact thing that will never allow the zipper to become mainstream.
You realize that the reason zipper merge is advocated is because if everyone did that, nobody can be a "douchey" driver because that merge lane would be slow along with the rest of the lanes. The bonus is that speed differentials are down and it's safer.
The point is that by leveraging all the available road for all cars, you're actually moving traffic better for everyone. People need to get off their high horse and off the mentality that it's a douchey move and just accept it's the most efficient way of maximizing the roads. The only reason you feel cheated is because nobody is doing it properly, which gives a free lane, which makes anyone doing it properly look like a douche.
But hey, if nobody is willing to do it, just more free flowing lane for those that will do it.
Originally posted by OTown
Glad to know that you think you are more important than everyone else.
I'm not more important than everyone else. Just smarter, and in fact, helping others on the road. By taking me off the sheep route and taking alternate routes, I'm freeing traffic for the rest of the sheep following the herd. :devil:
BTW - if you ever use Waze, it encourages everything I've said about commute optimization other than lane selection. It even tells you to take the off ramp to bypass traffic.
mucat
01-12-2017, 07:26 PM
Zipper merge means both mergers and mergees should leave enough space in front to safely complete the merge.
I think people are taking zipper merge too literal. Driver should match speed and merge when it is safe to do so. Merge at the end limit your options and buffer space, it is super stupid and dangerous.
max_boost
01-12-2017, 08:02 PM
Agreed with raj lol might as well eliminate that lane of road if no one will use it. everyone line up single file.....:nut: :dunno: :eek:
rage2
01-12-2017, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by mucat
I think people are taking zipper merge too literal. Driver should match speed and merge when it is safe to do so. Merge at the end limit your options and buffer space, it is super stupid and dangerous.
You're not supposed to zipper merge at speed. It's only used in slower traffic, which incidentally makes it more "douchey" haha.
JRSC00LUDE
01-12-2017, 08:37 PM
People who don't understand this is good are retarded. I love it when they get mad.
rage2
01-13-2017, 10:39 AM
I'm wondering if people are just confusing what zipper merges is and how it works. Like I said, you're supposed to use zipper merge in slower traffic, which increases traffic flow. When speeds are normal, you're supposed to merge back in earlier because it's actually dangerous like mucat stated. One guy decides to play road warrior and you're out of room.
Merging last minute in a lane that doesn't end but goes elsewhere (ie a turnoff lane) isn't zipper merging. That's not what's being advocated here.
killramos
01-13-2017, 10:46 AM
I hate people.
That is my only contribution to this discussion, without people this wouldn't be a problem :rofl:
I think i should move to Siberia.
It's a 2 part problem. Entitlement (me first) attitude makes it difficult for the p-brains to understand that zipper merging is the most altruistic form of traffic efficiency. Part 2 is a severe lack of engrained driver philosophy.
Our driving culture mirrors our societal mentality where you are only looking out for yourself. It's a systemic problem. People feel hard done by if they are required to accommodate. I go out of my way to let people in. I've noticed that fewer people wave then they did pre '10. This helps to make others like me less likely to want to be compassionate. It's a bit cynical.
Driver training here doesn't spend any time trying to explain why certain nuanced traffic devices are used or when. Yield/merge/stop. Also there isn't a genuine philosophy taught about how traffic devices are designed. You can't expect everyone to understand the engineering principles, but at least give them the broad strokes so they understand what they do.
Though I usually don't employ shortcut methods into my commuting, I will offramp dodge on deerfoot if there's an accident and I'm already on it.
Mitsu3000gt
01-13-2017, 11:31 AM
I think the reason people get mad is they just spent X minutes in the slow lane, and then they see someone speeding by on their right and think "F you buddy, I had to wait 20 minutes to get here, I'm not letting you in that easily". When really it's better for everyone.
Many Calgarians have a much bigger hurdle though, and that is knowing how to merge in the first place, before they can even consider a zipper merge. SO many people stop in merge lanes, because they are scared or because they need to move over RIGHT AWAY even though their next turn off isn't for 5KM.
rage2
01-13-2017, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by R154
Our driving culture mirrors our societal mentality where you are only looking out for yourself. It's a systemic problem. People feel hard done by if they are required to accommodate.
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I think the reason people get mad is they just spent X minutes in the slow lane, and then they see someone speeding by on their right and think "F you buddy, I had to wait 20 minutes to get here, I'm not letting you in that easily". When really it's better for everyone.
So what you're telling me is that it's not the people using the ending lane to zipper merge that thinks they're more important than everyone else, it's the drivers pissed off at the people zipper merging that thinks they're more important than everyone else?
Mind blown. haha.
Mitsu3000gt
01-13-2017, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by rage2
So what you're telling me is that it's not the people using the ending lane to zipper merge that thinks they're more important than everyone else, it's the drivers pissed off at the people zipper merging that thinks they're more important than everyone else?
Mind blown. haha.
The people using the ending lane to zipper merge are doing what's best for all of traffic, so yes I think it's the people who unnecessarily sit in the slow lane forever who feel slighted when someone zooms past them, and so they don't let that person in. That has always been my observation and assumption anyway.
killramos
01-13-2017, 11:41 AM
So if you are driving a Tesla in autopilot mode - Which does it do?
:rofl:
rage2
01-13-2017, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by killramos
So if you are driving a Tesla in autopilot mode - Which does it do?
:rofl:
It follows the lane or the car in front when there's no lane definition. You can decide to choose lanes though by using the flashers which tells autopilot to change lanes when safe, but I doubt it'll ever get in with Calgary drivers not letting cars in once they see a flasher.
As for zipper merge, autopilot can't merge at all today, zipper or not.
killramos
01-13-2017, 11:47 AM
Well that wasn't as interesting of a topic as I thought it would be :(
sexualbanana
01-13-2017, 11:49 AM
A zipper merge is fine. The one I think most people take exception to(at least in my opinion), and get it confused with, is when the lane isn't ending and the driver is just doing it to bypass the long line at a turning signal.
For example, southbound Macleod turning east on Glenmore when the turning lane backs up onto the inside through-lane. Some people decide to bypass the entire line by going into the middle lane, zipping by the line and then trying to dart in to the spot behind the first car.
Swank
01-13-2017, 12:10 PM
Southbound Crowchild isn't overly conducive to zipper merging approaching Glenmore if you need to stay on Crowchild to get into Lakeview, it merges you into the 'must exit' lane with little time to escape, damn near impossible to get over to the exclusive through lane at the far left. And if you get stuck going on to Glenmore your next U-turn might as well be in Chestermere.
Originally posted by rage2
So what you're telling me is that it's not the people using the ending lane to zipper merge that thinks they're more important than everyone else, it's the drivers pissed off at the people zipper merging that thinks they're more important than everyone else?
Mind blown. haha.
The people on the road allowing the incoming merge lane feel a certain ownership of that lane for having travelled in it for longer. Therefore they feel all joining traffic regardless of origin should yield to them. Or atleast that's what I think they think.
I'm sure there are elements of fear. People seem to panic more when multiple cars are trying to change lanes simultaneously around them.
It doesn't help that people don't seem to treat driving with the same majesty and attention to detail that it truly demands. More often then not people get caught off guard and don't drive defensively enough.
OTown
01-13-2017, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by rage2
I'm not more important than everyone else. Just smarter, and in fact, helping others on the road. By taking me off the sheep route and taking alternate routes, I'm freeing traffic for the rest of the sheep following the herd. :devil:
BTW - if you ever use Waze, it encourages everything I've said about commute optimization other than lane selection. It even tells you to take the off ramp to bypass traffic.
But its not. A lane that can handle only 500 cars/minute and is already at full capacity wont change its capacity just because you are driving like a dick. If anything you just slowed down everyone behind you since they now have to make room for you. And your risky maneuver has a higher risk of causing a collision, which will in turn cause increased congestion. Its the exact opposite of what a congested highway needs. Its not only a lack of courtesy but a selfish 'I am more important than everyone' move that will ultimately save you about 20 seconds for your full trip.
01RedDX
01-13-2017, 08:05 PM
.
rage2
01-23-2017, 09:54 AM
Timely article.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/all-hail-the-zipper-merge-how-canadian-politeness-is-killing-the-efficiency-of-our-highways
TL;DR: Canadians are too nice haha. Example from article:
802150560774426624
Seth1968
01-23-2017, 10:15 AM
^ If that was in the US, they would have been subdued by taser right at the door:)
cidley69
01-23-2017, 10:18 AM
Would love to see some of those big traffic signs telling people how to do it.
full on educational campaign. play the zipper merge videos in theatres ahead of movies.
be better ROI than the carbon tax commercials telling how much rebate everyone will get.
klumsy_tumbler
01-24-2017, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by cidley69
full on educational campaign. play the zipper merge videos in theatres ahead of movies.
be better ROI than the carbon tax commercials telling how much rebate everyone will get.
:werd:
HiTempguy1
01-24-2017, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by rage2
You realize that the reason zipper merge is advocated is because if everyone did that, nobody can be a "douchey" driver because that merge lane would be slow along with the rest of the lanes. The bonus is that speed differentials are down and it's safer.
I 100% agree with this (was a busy weekend, missed this thread). That is my point. But since it will never happen that everyone, or even a MAJORITY of people will do this, you'll have people (rightfully so) who zip down the empty lane and bypass 500 people to then shove their way in.
The problem is that you are looking at this from an entirely theoretical perspective. OF COURSE IT IS BETTER. Just in practice, it doesn't work unless a vast majority of people follow it. Otherwise, you get road rage.
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