TRUMAN HOMES leaves home owner on their own...

[dj_patm]

_wAzmTmJFZQ

This is what happened to my sink after I filled it about 3 quarters of the way with water in the 51 Oak building built by Truman Homes. This was a new condo that is only 15 months old and Truman Homes refused to provide any assistance or coverage claiming that its past the 1 year warranty and that they are not liable for the obviously faulty installation of the sink. This unit was built with cork flooring which has now been destroyed and the water has leaked into the unit below me as well.

When asked how they could ignore this poor quality build, the Truman Homes service manager I spoke with told me "well how do I know you didn't stand in it?" while refusing to send anyone to inspect the sink or any of the associated damage. They also refused to acknowledge the sink as part of the plumbing distribution system and thus claim it would not be covered under the Alberta New Home Warranty Program which extends such coverage for 2 years.

Truman Homes prides themselves on a reputation of customer satisfaction, however it seems that commitment to customer satisfaction has an expiration date just twelve months after you hand them hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think it a bit dubious at best to claim that you as company pride yourself on your work yet you won't stand by it any longer than Best Buy stands behind an iPod.

On top of this, I would just like to warn any perspective Truman Homes customers that in the short 15 months I have lived in my brand new Truman Home, they had to return multiple times to fix the poor finishing and trims and that their units offer very poor sound insulation as I have a well mannered family of three living above me yet I can hear every single footstep they take and my fixtures have to be tightened and monitored due to the shaking from the simple footsteps above.

I would never recommend Truman Homes to anyone and I am appalled at lack of assistance provided to a customer just 15 months after the possession date in a time when current and perspective home owners are feeling the pinch of a down economy and have so many options when it comes to selecting a builder to partner with on their 25 year investment.

[chkolny541]

Jesus that looks bad! Hoping you at least had insurance to get it sorted in the meantime.

[lilmira]

The sink couldn't support the weight of water and fell off? That doesn't sound right. For sure someone might have stood on it but why would anyone stand on a sink filled with water, to test the rubber boots perhaps?


Another reason to use your dishwasher folks;)

[jwslam]

Time to call CBC or Global for a story.

also: since you're having shit luck and probably need a laugh, refer to Post your latest purchase thread last 20ish posts where people don't actually post purchases and just debate about filling the sink to do dishes vs dishwasher

[J.M.]

:eek: hopefully you get this sorted out soon OP

"well how do I know you didn't stand in it?"

brb gonna go stand in my sink and test it out :rofl:

[revelations]

TBH they get crazy requests like this for warranty. People have sex in the bathroom and things get destroyed.

[roopi]

Wow that's crazy. I'm dealing with my builder (Baywest Homes) right now regarding a leak. I noticed a wet spot on my garage ceiling and called them asking if there would be water lines running in the garage ceiling so I had an idea on how to attack the issue (and just wanted to let them know).

The warranty supervisor has already visited twice and they should have the issue fixed soon. It will be 3 years December in this home so warranty has been done for almost 2 years. :thumbsup:

Hopefully some media attention can help you out on this. GL

[dj_patm]

Thanks guys. No, I promise no one stood in the sink lol.

I have no kids, no pets and my gf is in BC for work. There was no funny business, just lots and lots of water.

[danno]

Why is there so much water? No place to turn the water off??

[dj_patm]

Originally posted by danno
Why is there so much water? No place to turn the water off??

Dishwasher was on too and I believe the piping that broke under the sink was also connected to that but I haven't been able to get under there and check. I turned the water off right when I realized the dishwasher was on (the tap wasn't running when this happened) which was right after this video. Kinda black out for a second when you see this happening.

[Brent.ff]

Wouldn't this more be insurance taking care of it, and them going after Truman?

[dj_patm]

Originally posted by Brent.ff
Wouldn't this more be insurance taking care of it, and them going after Truman?

I'm getting a run around from pretty much everyone at this point.

Truman and Alberta Home Warranty Program are saying I'm not covered, my insurance is telling me that this is a condo manager issue and the condo manager isn't answering my calls and is telling me to email their general line.

Most worryingly is the fact that if it's my condo management company that is responsible than I'm probably going to be on the hook for an absolutely massive deductible on their overall insurance policy for the building.

Thanks Truman.

[spikerS]

ummm, you are past the warranty point now with the builder, so they are right in saying it isn't their responsibility, and it worked fine up until this point...

If the Alberta new home warranty program still is active for your place, I would be talking to them, and my insurance agent. I don't know why you are getting in a huff with Truman...:dunno:

But they are right, it is out of warranty, and they don't know how you have been treating your place in the past 13 months....

am i missing something here?

[HomespunLobster]

http://www.homewarranty.alberta.ca/

It's been 15 months, so under 2 years. Doesn't this fall under plumbing systems? Which would still have to be covered?

[redblack]

Originally posted by spikerS
ummm, you are past the warranty point now with the builder, so they are right in saying it isn't their responsibility, and it worked fine up until this point...

If the Alberta new home warranty program still is active for your place, I would be talking to them, and my insurance agent. I don't know why you are getting in a huff with Truman...:dunno:

But they are right, it is out of warranty, and they don't know how you have been treating your place in the past 13 months....

am i missing something here?

I totally agree with this. OP, it sucks but just go through home insurance, get it fixed and be done with it. I wish that builders would up their warranties from the standard one year.

[idriveabox]

Valuable lesson to check your home insurance policy or speak to a good broker (touchstone). The liability for the water damage to the unit below should (ideally) be responded to by the condo board and the building policy with a "charge back" to the OP for the building deductible. You should check your docs and see if you have a sufficient sublimit for a charge back - I've seen as low as $500 and up to $100k.

Good luck.

[speedog]

Undermount sinks of any type, you would be surprised how little is actually holding them in place. I would suggest anyone that has an undermount sink get underneath it and see what is actually securing it to the countertop. I've seen builds where only silicon is holding the sink in place and others where it's a couple of additional wires.

[C_Dave45]

^^That's all they're ever held up with...silicone.

On the other hand however, look at my latest purchase!! :clap:

http://i65.tinypic.com/16auwcz.jpg

[dirtsniffer]

Condo insurance should help you out. You'll only be liable up to the amount of the deductible. More info should be in your condo docs.

[revelations]

^ Silicone - that's all that holds aquariums together as well.

[botox]

This won't help you now, but I never liked the idea of how it's just silicone holding these sinks up so I put supports under mine. You can also look into cinclips available on amazon.ca

[nismodrifter]

Well, just saw your story on CTV news.

Bullshit install.

[roopi]

Originally posted by botox
This won't help you now, but I never liked the idea of how it's just silicone holding these sinks up so I put supports under mine. You can also look into cinclips available on amazon.ca

Is it silicone or epoxy?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by roopi


Is it silicone or epoxy?
99% of the time it's silicone. There's nothing wrong with silicone. It's got an extremely strong hold. But if either of the surfaces are wet then it won't stick at all. That's probably what happen here.

[dj_patm]

Originally posted by nismodrifter
Well, just saw your story on CTV news.

Bullshit install.

Yeah agreed, hopefully we can put enough pressure on them to react.

Had to focus on where this was getting the most traction so I haven't been checking this thread much.

Here's the link to the story: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/first-time-homeowner-stunned-by-lack-of-warranty-coverage-1.3166865

Please share and warn your friends and family about Truman Homes and their refusal to own up to their shoddy work!

Also here is the link the thread on /r/Calgary:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/comments/5dj8tm/check_out_ctv_news_at_6_and_11_to_see_me_talk/

[Wrinkly]

Maybe check your sink online for installation instructions, might help swing things in your favour. :dunno:

Had a under-mount sink installed by the same guy that did the countertop. The installation instructions stated that clips were required. He didn't use any and it's just done with silicone/epoxy (not sure which). It's a very large sink, and as yet has never been filled with water. I wonder what would happen if it was....

:eek:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
^^That's all they're ever held up with...silicone.

Uh, wut? There are definitely clips that can be utilized. Whether it is done or not make no difference as it should be.

https://www.amazon.com/e-clips-E-10-Epoxy-Sink-Clip/dp/B009D4Z2ZC

I know you are a contractor Dave, but that is completely bogus to not have the sink secured.

[dj_patm]

Originally posted by Wrinkly
[B]Maybe check your sink online for installation instructions, might help swing things in your favour. :dunno:


That's a really good idea!

How would I go about finding this information? I didn't see any markings on it when I looked but I should try again.

[kenny]

My kitchen sink has clips that are mounted to the vertical supports. That seems like a better fail-safe than clips that are epoxied to the same surface as the sink itself.

Not that it matters, the silicone that sinks are attached with are SUUUUPER strong:

ezx-PUPur3M

[roopi]

So you can stand in a sink? Someone needs to punch that guy in the face. I've never been annoyed so quickly by a person (I'm referring to the SUUUUPER strong guy.

[jacky4566]

Kenny that video is cool and all but he doesn't show the underside of the sink nor the installation of said silicone for all we know its a fake.

[Minimalist]

Well you are on page one (bottom) of a Google search < Truman Homes >, hard for this "family run" company to ignore a half-assed installation of something so easy as a kitchen sink. I'm sure all the other sinks and stuff behind the walls unseen are in tip-top shape. Makes me wonder a tiny bit.

Have your neighbours checked their sinks for a proper building code install? Make for a good topic during the next board meeting. The insurance company for the entire building might be interested in the topic as well, after all an inspection of every sink in the building would be a wise move.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/first-time-homeowner-stunned-by-lack-of-warranty-coverage-1.3166865

[jonsey737]

Doh, I have a truman built condo and an under mount sink too. I just checked and it's only siliconed too, no clips. It's been going strong for 4 years, now I don't trust it.

[roopi]

Originally posted by jonsey737
Doh, I have a truman built condo and an under mount sink too. I just checked and it's only siliconed too, no clips. It's been going strong for 4 years, now I don't trust it.

Can you half fill it with water and then stand in it? If so then trust it.

[jeffh]

From the video segment, it shows the inside of your sink with a sticker that visibly say BLANCO 518170. I would start there for manufacturer's installation instructions.

[mr2mike]

Saw this on the news too. Definitely getting traction.
Poor install/surface prep done. Silicone can hold a lot of force.

http://www.cslsilicones.com/en/sealants-adhesives/high-strength/item/high-strength-silicone-sealant-adhesive.html

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Uh, wut? There are definitely clips that can be utilized. Whether it is done or not make no difference as it should be.

https://www.amazon.com/e-clips-E-10-Epoxy-Sink-Clip/dp/B009D4Z2ZC

I know you are a contractor Dave, but that is completely bogus to not have the sink secured.
I didn't say they didn't make clips for them. I just said that's not the way they are installed. There are different methods of installation.

10,000 homes are built every year in Calgary. Probably half have undermount sinks. I've worked with every granite/slab installer in Calgary. I've never seen them install undermounts any other way than just regular silicone.

Even the sink manufacturers don't give a specified method. They leave that up to the expertise of the granite companies. And almost all granite companies use silicone. There's nothing wrong with this method. In the OP's case, the failure wasn't as a result of Silicone. It was a result of not using the silicone properly. (wet surface, not enough silicone, etc)

Note the highlighted part. This is the instruction sheet for my Blanco SilGranite sink that I'm putting in this weekend.
http://i68.tinypic.com/2vx4svc.jpg

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Yeah when used correctly, silicone can hold a crazy amount of weight. If not used correctly... well, you've already seen the video.

[carson blocks]

I'm not a contractor or even that handy so I'd defer to someone like Dave's recommendations on the usual practices. From just a curious consumers standpoint, I looked on the manufacturers website to see what they suggest, and it says the sink came with undermount clips included and recommends you use them (3 per long side, 2 per short side), or if unable to use them the installer is to build a brace to support the sink.

http://www.blanco-germany.com/en_us/en_us/sinks/product_catalog/sink.html?articleNo=518170#pros

Here are the .pdf instructions with details on the clips and brace.

http://www.blanco-germany.com/media/media/20_bam_medien/01_dokumente_1/pdf_2/installation_3/Undermount_Installation_Instructions_.pdf

As far as the Truman rep suggesting you stood in it, I was curious to see just how much weight the sink would have to hold full of water and got just over 150lbs(1) when full to the brim of just water, and I'm assuming they engineered in some tolerance for adding heavier-than-water objects such as dishes. An average size human standing in a properly installed sink should technically not be enough to make it fail anyways IMO.






(1) Sink internal dimensions 14.5"W * 16.5"L * 9"D = 2088 cu.in = 9.04us.gal = 75.44lbs * 2 sinks = 150.88lbs water only.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by carson blocks
From just a curious consumers standpoint, I looked on the manufacturers website to see what they suggest, and it says the sink came with undermount clips included and recommends you use them (3 per long side, 2 per short side), or if unable to use them the installer is to build a brace to support the sink.

http://www.blanco-germany.com/en_us/en_us/sinks/product_catalog/sink.html?articleNo=518170#pros

Here are the .pdf instructions with details on the clips and brace.

http://www.blanco-germany.com/media/media/20_bam_medien/01_dokumente_1/pdf_2/installation_3/Undermount_Installation_Instructions_.pdf


Where does it say the sink "comes with the clips"? My sink didn't come with clips. The enclosed installation instructions say clips are available, but they defer to the installation company as to installation procedures.

*edit*...I do see that now. Mine didn't come with clips. My question would be, if using clips...what exactly would you screw them into, with a countertop being made out of stone. There's no wood to screw the clips into.

[macman64]

My builder(cedarglen) installed wood blocking around the sink so much like clips just cheaper. So yes builders sometimes do more than just silicon.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
[B]
Probably half have undermount sinks. I've worked with every granite/slab installer in Calgary. I've never seen them install undermounts any other way than just regular silicone.



Bit of a ridiculous statement don't you think?

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
*edit*...I do see that now. Mine didn't come with clips. My question would be, if using clips...what exactly would you screw them into, with a countertop being made out of stone. There's no wood to screw the clips into.

If I'm reading correctly, the manufacturer recommends building a brace if the clips cannot be used. I did some googling and found that some drill/epoxy threaded inserts in to the underside of the surface, some build a wooden support structure from the cabinet, and there are even sink brackets and harnesses made specifically for this purpose.

Sink harness: http://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.cfm/m/1/fuseaction/store7catalog.level/bc/0,9096/

Various brackets: http://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/store7catalog.level/bc/0,8459,10475/

Video from Moen showing recommended installation using the clips on granite. https://youtu.be/xAlCSbsZYnI?t=122
Another video showing some clips for granite: https://youtu.be/qqXuhaGb2js?t=48
Video showing the harness setup: https://youtu.be/1DFw0RKSCkQ?t=158


Again, I'm a rank amateur and tend to overbuild things due to my lack of experience, but with the options available why not use one just to be safe? OP, what brand is your countertop, and what do they recommend for attaching undermount sinks?

Dave, I believe you 100% that most use just silicone and they work fine as your experience in this area is huge, but thinking just from a liability perspective, what info would help OP in his battle to prove to Truman that the installation wasn't adequate.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
My question would be, if using clips...what exactly would you screw them into, with a countertop being made out of stone. There's no wood to screw the clips into.

Uh duh. You silicone the clips to the stone :)

[gwill]

im surprised the news did an article on this. Everything has a warranty.. houses, cars, electronics... there arent many that will add an extra 6 months or a year when an issue arises.

Isnt it our responsibility to understand what we are buying and what limitations there are to the warranty?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by FraserB


Bit of a ridiculous statement don't you think?
What do you mean? The "every" part...or the "half" part?
Regardless...the point being, installing undermounts with silicone is not "wrong", nor against "code", nor against manufacturers specs.

You could mount them with steel titanium I-beams reinforced with Kryptonite if you want.

Using silicone is the way it's done and plenty strong enough.
End of story. :dunno:

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Using silicone is the way it's done and plenty strong enough.
End of story. :dunno:

Assuming it is installed with the proper silicone, and installed properly and the installer didn't cut corners. Which never happens right?

Now that I know about this, if I ever end up with an undermount sink, I will be installing bracing under neath just for peace of mind.

[FixedGear]

Just checked mine out cause this thread had me worried, I've got clips on that appear to be screwed into the bottom of the counter.

[Minimalist]

I just checked and I have clips and screwed in as well. Now my wife wants to know why I am taking a selfie while standing in the kitchen sink.

I bet the sink manufacturer gives loose instructions in order to not be on the bad end of a lawsuit. Also, wondering why the news did a piece on the home builder as they do advertise. Cough... did.

It is not at all uncommon to bathe a toddler in a kitchen sink. I'd hate to see where this story would be going if a kid or two were in the sink when it collapsed.

http://m8.i.pbase.com/u18/frsty50/upload/11773178.DSC06944p.jpg

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Minimalist
I just checked and I have clips and screwed in as well.
That's a laminate countertop and drop-in sink though, no?


Originally posted by FixedGear
Just checked mine out cause this thread had me worried, I've got clips on that appear to be screwed into the bottom of the counter.

Completely different scenario. How do you attach clips to a stone countertop? There's nothing to screw the clips to.


Originally posted by spikerS

Assuming it is installed with the proper silicone, and installed properly and the installer didn't cut corners. Which never happens right?

How is that any different to anything in a build? In whatever trade or installation. Maybe they cut corners and didn't use glue on an abs fitting, maybe they didn't use the proper liner in your shower floor, maybe they didn't insulate a wall.

Still doesn't negate the fact that using silicone to attach an undermount sink to a stone top is perfectly fine.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by macman64
My builder(cedarglen) installed wood blocking around the sink so much like clips just cheaper. So yes builders sometimes do more than just silicon.
You're among the minority then. I'd love to see a picture of that, btw.

I worked on Cedarglen Homes for about 13 years. Pretty much every install I was at were done with silicone.

[macman64]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

You're among the minority then. I'd love to see a picture of that, btw.

I worked on Cedarglen Homes for about 13 years. Pretty much every install I was at were done with silicone.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29293/Photo%202016-11-19%2C%208%2002%2000%20PM.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29293/Photo%202016-11-19%2C%208%2002%2016%20PM.jpg

Let me know if you want different angles etc. I am sure this is in addition to silicon, not instead of.

[infected]

Damn this thread has got me all worried too. The condo looks to be similar to FixedGear, 4 bolts with washers at each corner. There is no sign of epoxy and it looks like they used a tap to create threads to the underside of the granite... as crazy as that sounds. I'm not going to go loosen it to check but anyways...

The house is similar to macman64, wooden blocking (pretty much shims) around the edges with epoxy, plus one piece of strapping that spans across the width of both sinks. I've ordered a set of cinclips for the house just in case and will probably remove the strapping (looks bad). You can check it out when you start on the tiling, Dave.

Didn't know you could create threads in granite though???

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by macman64


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29293/Photo%202016-11-19%2C%208%2002%2000%20PM.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29293/Photo%202016-11-19%2C%208%2002%2016%20PM.jpg

Let me know if you want different angles etc. I am sure this is in addition to silicon, not instead of.
Ahh ok. Lol. Btw...those are temporary. Only used to hold the sink in place until the silicone cures. I'm surprised the pre-oc didn't catch that and remove them. Looks like ass for a new home. Some installers do that, others use a 2x4 under the sink with rope or wires up through the drain onto another 2x4 running across the countertops. Twist the wire or rope to snug the sink into place.
The most common now though is really strong "scotch tape" (like sock tape in hockey) and they just tape it onto the counter over night.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Completely different scenario. How do you attach clips to a stone countertop? There's nothing to screw the clips to.


From what I can tell, they drilled holes into the stone from the underside, and the bolts are screwed into that. I didn't install it, but that what it looks like when I stick my head under there. :dunno:

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by infected
Damn this thread has got me all worried too. The condo looks to be similar to FixedGear, 4 bolts with washers at each corner. There is no sign of epoxy and it looks like they used a tap to create threads to the underside of the granite... as crazy as that sounds. I'm not going to go loosen it to check but anyways...



Yeah, that sounds like what I have too - looks like they drilled holes, then tapped them for the bolts.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by FixedGear


From what I can tell, they drilled holes into the stone from the underside, and the bolts are screwed into that. I didn't install it, but that what it looks like when I stick my head under there. :dunno:
Oh that method. They use epoxy to hold the T-nuts in place. Thats common in the States. Very rarely done up here. Takes too long and has to be done the day before install.

http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/12012301/images/t-nuts-stainless-steel.jpg

[speedog]

Originally posted by Minimalist


It is not at all uncommon to bathe a toddler in a kitchen sink. I'd hate to see where this story would be going if a kid or two were in the sink when it collapsed.

http://m8.i.pbase.com/u18/frsty50/upload/11773178.DSC06944p.jpg

Wouldn't happen in your pictured example as that is a surface mounted sink.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by speedog


Wouldn't happen in your pictured example as that is a surface mounted sink.

Meh. It's an awesome picture of innocence though!

Something we've forgotten.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Oh that method. They use epoxy to hold the T-nuts in place. Thats common in the States. Very rarely done up here. Takes too long and has to be done the day before install.

http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/12012301/images/t-nuts-stainless-steel.jpg

I can check tomorrow, but these are thick counters and it looked like they were sunk right onto the granite.:dunno:

[Minimalist]

Dave is the Beyond go-to guy for all things sink and tile related.

Speedog Captain Obvious requested a baby in the proper kitchen sink E-coli-ing it all up in an oh so cute fashion.

http://momspotted.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/1490941a79e011e2871d22000a1f92db_7.jpg

[speedog]

While I did not request any picture, I do have to say that silicon is used to hold more in place in homes then people might realize. Bar brackets, sometimes shelves, even upper cabinets sometimes. This is because sometimes there is no alternative because the builder wants a certain look or studs are placed farther apart than what's being mounted on that wall. Builders will short cut when something is missed that affects something else later.

I would love it if every kitchen had plywood or particle board behind the drywall to hang cabinets off or even backing plates but that is the exception and not the rule by far. I've seen cabinets hung on a wall with just silicon because there were no studs available - 19" cabinet on 24" stud spacing. Or only 3 - 3" screws holding in a 30" cabinet with silicone doing the rest on 24" stud spacing.

I could go on but there's no point - silicone adhesives are widely used and more so all the time. The build I'm currently on has 250 units with a bathroom sinks mounted on a corner mounter shelf (6" skids) - this shelf is secured to the walls with only with silicone and I initially had a difficult time believing it would hold any significant weight. Two days after doing my first one I tested it out with my 205 pound bulk and to my surprise, it held. I wouldn't do things this way but the owner wants no visible attachment points and silicon was the only way.

As a sub, I can have my own idea of what's the right or wrong way to do things but the builder and/or owner/developer are often more than willing to accept compromises to save money. Just this past week, myself and another sub installed 406 swinging closet doors - we had to shim all but 2 and the amount of shimming was quite extreme in most cases. Several things contributed to this problem but the builder was willing to accept uneven outside gaps as opposed to fixing crooked metal door frames. Deadlines and money are the trump card in most builds as opposed to doing things the right way.

Siliconing under mount sinks, it's the norm as best as I've seen and no doubt some installs are quite sketchy. Shit happens and it's not like any inspection is going to involve someone getting on one's backside in a cabinet to look up at a sink.

[thinmyster]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

others use a 2x4 under the sink with rope or wires up through the drain onto another 2x4 running across the countertops. Twist the wire or rope to snug the sink into place.
The most common now though is really strong &quot;scotch tape&quot; (like sock tape in hockey) and they just tape it onto the counter over night.

This is exactly how mine were done a couple years back. (both methods- 2x4 for the kitchen and tape for the bathrooms)

They did put metal strapping across my kitchen sink. (I think maybe because I asked them about it) but once they installed the strapping I remember thinking "this isn't going to do shit". I imagine if the silicone gives way im hooped

[blairtruck]

i have quartz countertop and i just looked and my under mount is attached with clips screwed into the quartz.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by gwill
im surprised the news did an article on this. Everything has a warranty.. houses, cars, electronics... there arent many that will add an extra 6 months or a year when an issue arises.

Isnt it our responsibility to understand what we are buying and what limitations there are to the warranty?

So you understand this to mean only one year? I don't understand it. I think a major failure like this should be covered. :dunno:

Alberta New Home Warranty (http://www.anhwp.com/mandatorywarranty/)


Alberta’s New Home Buyer Protection Act (NHBPA), which took effect in February 2014, reflects the Government’s desire to ensure all new homebuyers receive warranty protection, clear expectations and an ownership experience protected from unpleasant surprises – the benefits our Builder Members’ customers have been enjoying for over 40 years.

Alberta’s New Home Buyer Protection Act stipulates that all new homes must include warranty coverage of one year for labour and materials, two years for delivery and distribution systems, five years for building envelope protection and 10 years for major structural components.

A new home warranty must cover defects in labour and materials related to heating, electrical and plumbing systems for two years from the warranty commencement date. This applies to single-family homes, multi-family units and warrantable multi-family common property.

[blitz]

I have one of the giant single bowl sinks mounted to granite, mounted with silicon and some wood tabs with epoxy. After about 5 years of use the wood tabs and epoxy started falling off and a bit later I noticed one of the corners had some play in it and a good shove on the bottom of the sink broke it loose. I remounted it with silicon but added in some baltic birtch plywood supports on each side screwed into the side of the cabinet.

We were pretty heavy users of the sink though, lol.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8690/16941170601_e66caae732_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rP2VNi)Sony A7 + FE 28mm F2 (https://flic.kr/p/rP2VNi) by Ryan Karr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ryankarr/), on Flickr

[Prelude_dude]

wow this is a great awareness thread.

I have one of these under mounted sinks as well; just checked and i have some wood screwed to the side of the cabinet.

Peace of mind! :clap:

Home was built by Discovery Homes.

[Kobe]

So from a business perspective here if Truman goes and pays the 10-15k to fix your warranty issue I'm sure it's not a big deal for him but then everyone will be like "well you fixed his after warranty, fix mine" so i see why he doesn't want to do it

On the other side he can just fix it to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.

Do you not have condo insurance they should be covering this? or home insurance?

The sink should not be falling out ofc but with what 400 units and 1 failed I'd say you just had some pretty bad luck IMO, and it could really happen to anyone else, Unlucky it happened to you.

With that said, was any action taken from the condo insurance or Truman on this?

PS: we have a Truman home and have lived in it for 3+ years now with no real issues.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Kobe
So from a business perspective here if Truman goes and pays the 10-15k to fix your warranty issue I'm sure it's not a big deal for him but then everyone will be like &quot;well you fixed his after warranty, fix mine&quot; so i see why he doesn't want to do it

On the other side he can just fix it to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.

Do you not have condo insurance they should be covering this? or home insurance?

The sink should not be falling out ofc but with what 400 units and 1 failed I'd say you just had some pretty bad luck IMO, and it could really happen to anyone else, Unlucky it happened to you.

With that said, was any action taken from the condo insurance or Truman on this?

PS: we have a Truman home and have lived in it for 3+ years now with no real issues.
My parent's townhouse complex has 3 units (so far) with improperly installed toilets. Bolts were over tightened or something, and eventually it cracks and if you're not home, if it's an upstairs toilet, just massive water carnage. One of the units belongs to a friend, basically whole place is being rebuilt.

Condo insurance pays for the repairs, typically with a huge deductible. Our own insurance covers the deductible with a smaller deductible. So that's the proper process AFAIK.

Another instance, our condo (top floor) had a hose failure which leaked water for a couple hours. Condo insurance paid for all the repairs to all units. Our own insurance covers the deductible, and any upgrades to other units that weren't covered by condo insurance.

So ya, I think this is really the only recourse for the OP. The sink really isn't part of the definition of "plumbing system" that hits the 2 year warranty, otherwise you could argue that the fridge, dishwasher, bathtub, basically anything hooked up to water would qualify as well. So really, it's hard for Truman homes to do anything about it.

[gwill]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


So you understand this to mean only one year? I don't understand it. I think a major failure like this should be covered. :dunno:

Alberta New Home Warranty (http://www.anhwp.com/mandatorywarranty/)



First if you read the article or saw the video this condo project was under the old warranty setup. The govt used permits applied after a certain date as those who would have the warranty you quoted.


So the question to everyone is what good is a warranty if you expect every little issue to be fixed after it expires? Thats why its clearly defined so people arent demanding fixes to every little issue.

If you dont understand the warranty for the things your buying why are others to blame?

This sucks for the op but stuff happens out of warranty all the time. My friends audi had major transmission issues 5k out of warrsnty and it cost him $14k. That didnt make the news..

[dj_patm]

Hey guys,
I'm back to give an update. Firstly, I would argue that this isn't a warranty issue as much as it is a defective workmanship issue. Sinks don't collapse after 15 months if installed correctly. This isn't "wear and tear".

My condo board insurance is covering it and I'm responsible for covering their deductible which is close to 8 grand. My insurance will cover that and I'll have to cover my deductible and of course, a higher insurance rate going forward.

I'm exploring what I can do.

As for understanding the warranty, Truman didn't even understand the warranty as they told me I'd be covered under the ANHWP. They included the ANHWP pamphlets in my possession date documents. I would definitely argue that the sink is part of the plumbing distribution as water flows in and out of it and it's drain is literally part of the plumbing distribution system for the dishwasher too but that's all a moot issue at this point.

(To the people that read CP: I left for reasons completely unrelated to this. Got other things I need to invest time into. Also no, I didn't enjoy any of this. It's most likely going to cost me a lot of money through zero fault of my own. There was no way I was going to sit around and take it laying down. That's how these builders get away with a BS one year warranty on a HOME in the first place. People just take it. Did it motivate me? Yes. Did I enjoy it? No. Not at all. Ridiculous notion.)

[TomcoPDR]

Got a friend living in that development. His buildings central heating system broke down last week. Oh man

[rage2]

Originally posted by dj_patm
Hey guys,
I'm back to give an update. Firstly, I would argue that this isn't a warranty issue as much as it is a defective workmanship issue. Sinks don't collapse after 15 months if installed correctly. This isn't &quot;wear and tear&quot;.
Well that's what a warranty is for, it's to cover workmanship issues. Realistically a sink is good for 30+ years, can't expect them to cover for the duration of it.


Originally posted by dj_patm
My condo board insurance is covering it and I'm responsible for covering their deductible which is close to 8 grand. My insurance will cover that and I'll have to cover my deductible and of course, a higher insurance rate going forward.
Yea, like I mentioned a few posts up, that's basically what happens.


Originally posted by dj_patm
As for understanding the warranty, Truman didn't even understand the warranty as they told me I'd be covered under the ANHWP. They included the ANHWP pamphlets in my possession date documents. I would definitely argue that the sink is part of the plumbing distribution as water flows in and out of it and it's drain is literally part of the plumbing distribution system for the dishwasher too but that's all a moot issue at this point.
Yea, that's a bit of a let down in that you didn't qualify on a technicality, but they still sold you on that. What can you do? I'm not sure, since you don't qualify for it you can't even dispute via ANHWP.

I always found it stupid that pre ANHWP that new homes only have a 1 year warranty. ANHWP fixed that a little bit but it can still be improved.