2018 Mazda3 to Introduce HCCI Engine, Promises 30% Better Fuel Efficiency

[pheoxs]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2018-mazda3-to-introduce-hcci-engine-promises-30-better-fuel-efficiency-114652.html


As per an exclusive report published by Nikkei, the all-new powerplant will use “pressure, not spark plugs, to ignite fuel.”


Due to the lack of spark plugs, the new engine will employ homogenous charge compression ignition (HCCI) to make things go boom. In other words, a gasoline-fed motor with the ignition system of a diesel engine. Other than superior gas mileage, this technical solution is also believed to reduce exhaust emissions. Slated to debut in 2018 in the next-gen Mazda3, the homogenous charge compression ignition SkyActiv mill will then roll out to other models.

Nikkei’s report highlights that the second-generation SkyActiv engine “would give the current Mazda3 mileage approaching 30 km per liter, according to estimates.” That’d be 3.3 l/100 km and 70.5 miles per gallon, figures that would put the 2018 Mazda3 at the very top of the compact segment.


Wiki for HCCI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneous_charge_compression_ignition

[jwslam]

Not sure I would trust the insane amounts of pressure required, especially in a first gen model.

There'd be so much more integrity required in the components, most likely resulting in a heavier engine...

[Maxt]

Originally posted by jwslam
Not sure I would trust the insane amounts of pressure required, especially in a first gen model.

There'd be so much more integrity required in the components, most likely resulting in a heavier engine...
I read an SAE paper on compression ignition from the 90's that said the ignition and burn could be as smooth and shockless as spark ignition if the fuel could be delivered in the exact right amount, at the exact right time, at the exact right place in the combustion chamber. They were testing it back then but could only get the desired results at fixed engine speeds. Direct injection efi and combustion analysis is probably where it needs to be now to achieve that.

[ExtraSlow]

Are the pressures higher than diesel? Have never heard of this for gasoline, but sounds like a pretty awesome technology.

[heavyD]

I wonder how these would fare when being started up in extreme cold cranking conditions.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by heavyD
I wonder how these would fare when being started up in extreme cold cranking conditions.

I assume theyd still have a spark plug for starting conditions, then once its up to temperature it stops sparking and switches over to HCCI mode?

Or maybe some kind of glow plug like diesels have? Its an interesting concept for sure.

[962 kid]

I'd be really, really surprised if it was exclusively HCCI. It only works in very specific combustion temperature, pressure, and engine speed ranges. There has been a ton of effort in the past decade to try and use standard sensors and advanced modeling to determine if the combustion is appropriate without resorting to in-cylinder monitoring. Even with controlled gasoline which has known burn rates there are significant challenges. Super impressive work though, excited to get more details.

[Mitsu3000gt]

How about making these cars more fun instead? Those N/A "Skyactiv" motors are some of the most boring and under powered out there IMHO. I'd love to see them use a small turbo instead.

Sounds like a cool technology for an "eco" model or hybrid competitor though.

[A790]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
How about making these cars more fun instead? Those N/A "Skyactiv" motors are some of the most boring and under powered out there IMHO. I'd love to see them use a small turbo instead.

Sounds like a cool technology for an "eco" model or hybrid competitor though.
Have you ever driven one?

My '14 3 GT is a hoot. Sure it's only got 185hp, but it's paired to a great transmission and chassis. Lots of fun.

[killramos]

I'm always onboard for actually bringing improvements to ICE's, sounds pretty interesting. Mazda has always been good in this regard and Skyactiv is actually a pretty cool piece of tech.

To me one of the big benefits is not having the plugs in there, would make the head WAY simpler. But if the plug is still in there for cold starting then I don't REALLY see the point. Higher pressures is definitely better for efficiency I guess...

Must making adjusting timing a bitch though, how do diesels compensate?

/nerd

[pheoxs]

I wonder if this tech could feed into the rotary engine somehow?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
How about making these cars more fun instead? Those N/A "Skyactiv" motors are some of the most boring and under powered out there IMHO. I'd love to see them use a small turbo instead.

Sounds like a cool technology for an "eco" model or hybrid competitor though.

Apparently the engineers are resisting turbo at Mazda as they prefer more direct throttle feel. They want 0 lag and more direct throttle feel.

At least that's their excuses with MX-5.


Originally posted by pheoxs
I wonder if this tech could feed into the rotary engine somehow?

Rotary is dead under current administration.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by A790

Have you ever driven one?

My '14 3 GT is a hoot. Sure it's only got 185hp, but it's paired to a great transmission and chassis. Lots of fun.

Yeah I drove many actually, across various model years, both new and used, when I was shopping for my Civic (which is no more fun, don't get me wrong). I've also re-visited them when helping friends shop more recently. They were boring and very overpriced in my opinion, especially if you want that 185hp motor they start at $27K or something like that. Add a couple options and you are in GTI territory with a vastly better engine. Just wasn't for me I guess.



Originally posted by Xtrema


Apparently the engineers are resisting turbo at Mazda as they prefer more direct throttle feel. They want 0 lag and more direct throttle feel.

At least that's their excuses with MX-5.
.

Sounds like a poor excuse when other manufacturers can turbo engines with no perceptible lag and performance benefits across the entire RPM range (like a lot of the 2.0T's out there). Personally I'd still rather have a little lag than an under powered 'sports car'.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Sounds like a poor excuse when other manufacturers can turbo engines with no perceptible lag and performance benefits across the entire RPM range (like a lot of the 2.0T's out there). Personally I'd still rather have a little lag than an under powered 'sports car'.

All turbo has lag, just some more than others.

They did put a turbo on 2.5L for the CX-9 for heavier duty. I think it would be cool if they slap a turbo on the 2L in Miata.

[heavyD]

Lets not forget Mazda was in dire straits a few years ago and probably doesn't have near the resources as other manufacturers when it comes to multiple engine designs.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Xtrema


All turbo has lag, just some more than others.

They did put a turbo on 2.5L for the CX-9 for heavier duty. I think it would be cool if they slap a turbo on the 2L in Miata.

I guess, but reviewers often state things like "no noticeable turbo lag" so if there is lag it's a total non issue compared to the benefits. I've driven a few cars now where I literally could not tell it had a turbo unless I put it in an absurdly high gear at low speed.

Definitely would be cool. Mazda's other turbo engines are great, I just wish they would show a little more power love to the Miata especially.

I also still see rust on some very new Mazda 3's which always concerns me.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I also still see rust on some very new Mazda 3's which always concerns me.

They have transitioned from Japanese to Mexican steel, not sure if that improves the quality a bit. But yeah, rusting is still a huge issue with Mazda in the early 2010.

[A790]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Yeah I drove many actually, across various model years, both new and used, when I was shopping for my Civic (which is no more fun, don't get me wrong). I've also re-visited them when helping friends shop more recently. They were boring and very overpriced in my opinion, especially if you want that 185hp motor they start at $27K or something like that. Add a couple options and you are in GTI territory with a vastly better engine. Just wasn't for me I guess.
Fair enough, at least you drive one and gave it a fair shot.

I'm pretty happy with mine. Sips gas, enough punch when I want to have fun on an on-ramp. Wish it had more power... but that's true of every car I've ever owned.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by A790

Fair enough, at least you drive one and gave it a fair shot.

I'm pretty happy with mine. Sips gas, enough punch when I want to have fun on an on-ramp. Wish it had more power... but that's true of every car I've ever owned.

Power is definitely my biggest complaint with my Civic as well - I am used to cars with 2-3 times the HP and TQ so it was a bit of an adjustment haha. Pretty hard to fault otherwise though for a cheap DD, and not one single problem in 7 years. When I bought it I lived downtown and drove ~5,000km/year tops but now things have changed so I care about my care a bit more.

I'm in the market for a new car now though and having a turbo is pretty high on the list, for the torque and to cancel out our elevation handicap. Finding a fun car with a sub-$400 lease payment though is a challenge.

[pheoxs]

Different article popped up on my news feed with some more info saying the new HCCI engine will run 18:1 compression ratio :eek:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/mazdas-next-gen-skyactiv-engines-will-drop-spark-plugs-in-favor-of-high-compression/ar-AAlV9gi?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Finding a fun car with a sub-$400 lease payment though is a challenge.

Fiesta ST

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Fiesta ST

Or GTI

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Xtrema

Fiesta ST
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Or GTI Yup :thumbsup:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Fiesta ST

I just looked at Car & Driver but is it true that with 197 HP that tiny little car still needs 7 seconds 0-60? How is it that slow?

I had also looked at the Focus ST but the online calculators had it over $400/mo if I recall.

Really trying to stay closer to $300/mo side which is looking to be very difficult.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Really trying to stay closer to $300/mo side which is looking to be very difficult.

That's $100 drop will not get you anything fun.

There is no way you can get decent turbo for that price. All you get will be pedestrian 1.4/1.5L turbos or <2L NA.

Also I think someone is trying to sell a low mileage Fiesta ST in market place too for < $20K.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Xtrema


That's $100 drop will not get you anything fun.

There is no way you can get decent turbo for that price. All you get will be pedestrian 1.4/1.5L turbos or &lt;2L NA.

Also I think someone is trying to sell a low mileage Fiesta ST in market place too for &lt; $20K.

The problem is the well known $299/mo Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD 8AT deal that is currently not available. If it was still going, I would have already signed the papers. Knowing that was available and might again sometime in the future ruins absolutely everything haha. The car is not worth anywhere near its $50K window sticker, but it's obviously vastly preferable to the econo-boxes which cost the same amount. Because of that deal, everything else seems like a rip-off and I can't get my head around it haha.

The sweet spot for most other cars seem to be $400/mo but that is more than I'm willing to spend on a car payment right now.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I just looked at Car &amp; Driver but is it true that with 197 HP that tiny little car still needs 7 seconds 0-60? How is it that slow?

I had also looked at the Focus ST but the online calculators had it over $400/mo if I recall.

Really trying to stay closer to $300/mo side which is looking to be very difficult.

Front wheel drive + turbo = hard to get grip and to launch. Even second gear when full boost hits I generally lose traction. Keep in mind the fiesta is incredible light (2700lbs) so its very nimble in the corners and playing around but low speed it doesn't have much weight to catch grip.

Also with the gearing IIRC I have to shift into 3rd right about 85-90km, so that adds more time to get up to 100.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by pheoxs


Front wheel drive + turbo = hard to get grip and to launch. Even second gear when full boost hits I generally lose traction. Keep in mind the fiesta is incredible light (2700lbs) so its very nimble in the corners and playing around but low speed it doesn't have much weight to catch grip.

Also with the gearing IIRC I have to shift into 3rd right about 85-90km, so that adds more time to get up to 100.

Yeah that 3rd shift is probably what kills it the most. Even a Civic with the boring CVT , 200+ extra pounds, and 174hp is faster. The Fiest ST is probably more fun to throw around though.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


The problem is the well known $299/mo Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD 8AT deal that is currently not available. If it was still going, I would have already signed the papers. Knowing that was available and might again sometime in the future ruins absolutely everything haha. The car is not worth anywhere near its $50K window sticker, but it's obviously vastly preferable to the econo-boxes which cost the same amount. Because of that deal, everything else seems like a rip-off and I can't get my head around it haha.

The sweet spot for most other cars seem to be $400/mo but that is more than I'm willing to spend on a car payment right now.

you want fun and mentioned ATS? :banghead:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


you want fun and mentioned ATS? :banghead:

Well it's definitely better than Mazda 3 and Civic in some regard.

And the fact is that it's a $55K car that dealer will sell it for $40K or lease it like a $30K car. Damn good bang for the bucks.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


you want fun and mentioned ATS? :banghead:

Can you find me a brand new car with a better combination of power/fun and luxury for $299/mo lease, free maintenance & oil changes? I haven't been able to find one yet. It even had AWD.

As I said earlier, I think the ATS is a very underwhelming vehicle overall and not worth anywhere near it's $50K price tag. HOWEVER, comparing an ATS to a base model Civic with no options or some other $20K econo box that also costs $299/mo, it looks pretty damn good.

A base Civic DX with zero options and a manual transmission costs more money to lease than that.

A base Mazda 3 with zero options that only costs $17,000 after incentives is still $295/mo to least for 36 months - they don't even offer a 24 month option and if they did it would be over $300. The ATS deal is insane value.

Sadly the deal is not available right now or I would have already done it.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by jwslam
Not sure I would trust the insane amounts of pressure required, especially in a first gen model.

There'd be so much more integrity required in the components, most likely resulting in a heavier engine...

:dunno:

Tier 4 diesel engines do >30,000 PSI in the fuel rail... Should be a solved problem so I don't know that I would worry overmuch on that front.

[Darell_n]

Gasoline will also ignite at half of what diesel requires. Pressures shouldn't be an issue.