Capacitor ?

[Harryc8786]

Okay i searched this site and didnt find an answer. Well if im gona run a 1200W rms JBL amp @ im thinking 2 ohms, im gona need a cap. I know the rule is 1 farhd per 1000W, so if im doin 200W more is that any big deal? And for a cap, do you ground them? Or just run power line stright through to your amp?

[spike98]

I would set up your amp and give her a shot BEFORE buying a cap. If your lights dim then get one. Thats all they will do for you is stop the dimming. If there are worse problems then you should look into upgrading the alternator and/or battery.

As for hooking them up. You run the positive wire through the cap from your battery to your amp. Then you ground the neg terminal of the cap to the same spot as you grounded the amp. If you can't get close then no biggie as close as possiable is good enough.

! farad would be enough but i would seriously suggest installing the amp first and going from there. IMO caps are worthless.

[npham]

You couldn't find anything about a cap on here. Jesus you missed some good postage....

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44291

I quit arguing after a while, cuz I just didn't care if someone doesn't believe me or facts. To each his own, take what you can get from the thread.

[Hash_man]

I don't think it is a neccesity with most systems, especially because I think the amp you will be running is a digital amp, and most of the time, those are easier on your charging system... My lights sometimes dimmed at night when I had the heat on, and my stereo cranked a bit, so I put in a Monster Cable 1 farad cap, and I no longer get dimming lights. I would say it worked for me, but it may not work for others as I have heard... but I honestly think that most of the time, people just need a new battery, or a new alternator and just dont realize it, which is why I had a load test done on the charging system of my car before i decided to buy a cap.

[npham]

This is where you start your power(current upgrades)

-start by upgrade your power wire, depends on the power application, 4 gauge is probably good for most ppl.

-then the Big 3 upgrade. Basically upgrade the gauge of wire from the chasis to battery, engine block to alternator, and alternator to battery.

-get your alternator rewound or buy a new one.

these are quite simple and you shouldn't dim too much unless you are running big amps, ie draws 200A

And if you are complaining about dimming, and use amp that draw 200A, you should be shot for not know dick about car audio and so forth.

[npham]

http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf

heres' the cap experiment.

[jennyanniemary]

dimming lights is not the reason to get a cap.
a cap is suppose to supply u with with current when the amp demands it (say low hz bass (be low 80))repeated hits.
due to the high current draw requirs for you sub/amp to hit that note, most nippon denso(jap cars) alt can not produce that much current around 80-100A max(y wound stators).
a delta wound stator can produce more more.
even if you alternator or can produce the A required u need some really large wires to bring it back form engine back to trunk. almost always bigger is better(u should only loose 0.01V drop per 10A cureent draw) or 0.4v drop max on pos side and .1v on neg side
i suggest haveing another battery in the trunk and a cap
the cap its self might seem to fix the dimming light issue but that not what they are ment to do, they are suppose to be use so u can get more depth from your bas notes... amps them self have caps with in them self, open one up and u can see, if u add caps u are just aiding what u potentially might need... the PQ distribustion block is very good, i totally recomend it, but then u only running JBL.
closer the cap to the amp the better, it defeats the purpose of a cap if u can bring the current to the amp and its all lost in wires and connection, also FUSE everything, if that cap gorunds out when charged, u can expect alot of damage....

[spike98]

Originally posted by jennyanniemary
dimming lights is not the reason to get a cap.
a cap is suppose to supply u with with current when the amp demands it (say low hz bass (be low 80))repeated hits.
due to the high current draw requirs for you sub/amp to hit that note, most nippon denso(jap cars) alt can not produce that much current around 80-100A max(y wound stators).
a delta wound stator can produce more more.
even if you alternator or can produce the A required u need some really large wires to bring it back form engine back to trunk. almost always bigger is better(u should only loose 0.01V drop per 10A cureent draw) or 0.4v drop max on pos side and .1v on neg side
i suggest haveing another battery in the trunk and a cap
the cap its self might seem to fix the dimming light issue but that not what they are ment to do, they are suppose to be use so u can get more depth from your bas notes... amps them self have caps with in them self, open one up and u can see, if u add caps u are just aiding what u potentially might need... the PQ distribustion block is very good, i totally recomend it, but then u only running JBL.
closer the cap to the amp the better, it defeats the purpose of a cap if u can bring the current to the amp and its all lost in wires and connection, also FUSE everything, if that cap gorunds out when charged, u can expect alot of damage....



HAHAHAHAH 95% of you statments in that post are missinformation and marketing.

The only thing that sounds right is when you are talking about wiring of an alternator. Thats only because i no nothing about them.

[npham]

I wouldn't agree on everything that jennyanniemary has said. Each situation is different, and most of the time you don't need the extra battery, or cap. You just need a solid battery, and high amperage alternator to get you by. 1/0 gauge power wire doesn't hurt either.

[Weapon_R]

Spend the $150 on booze and cigarettes. At least that'd be money better spent. Caps are useless.

[npham]

Peach it Weapon_R, and I am send pics to Emil soon. Hopefully things will turn out.

[Tyler883]

Just think of the cap as a high curent/low capacity battery that you place next to your amp so that the amp never experiences a 'brown out' condition when you try playing the wrong frequencies at the wrong volume( speaking comparively w.r.t. your power wires, alternator, etc).

I hope this helps put everything else in perspective, too.

[Harryc8786]

Well to let you guys know, the amp came in it was cutting in and out on some bass and subs would pop. Well i relocated my ground and also threw a cap on, there was still shitty bass then i messed with the low pass and highpass filter on my HU now things seem much better, i lost some bass i had with my old amp, but that was distored now its hard and clean bass, thanks for the tips guys

[s10andy]

for all those that say caps r useless, i totally disagree.. i had a phoinex gold amp awhile back, hooked it up, and as soon as i would turn it up to a louder volume the amp would shut doen, not thermal protection, it was because the lack of juice, put a cap on it and everything was totally fine, and don't even try to tell me it was because a weak battery, ot a weak alternator, because the car was brand new, not even 2 weeks old.. caps r a great help.. and yes there is alot of other stuff that u can do to get the power u need. the only statement i disagree with in those whole forum is the caps r usless!! meh

[hondarunner]

Originally posted by Harryc8786
Okay i searched this site and didnt find an answer. Well if im gona run a 1200W rms JBL amp @ im thinking 2 ohms, im gona need a cap. I know the rule is 1 farhd per 1000W, so if im doin 200W more is that any big deal? And for a cap, do you ground them? Or just run power line stright through to your amp?
well with that big of an amp i would suggest running a few caps. 1 farad is good for about 1000 watts peak (approx 300 watts rms), so than in theory u would need atleast 3-4 caps wired in series to actually have a benefeit. My suggestion for you is if you rly want to do that, spend the money on the new stinger battery (basically a bigger sorage, all it needs is power in and out), and upgrade your altenator.

[Lennon]

I agree with what Andy said, if caps are so useless.... why is it that you see them in applications with extreme audio done to the car. Getting a cap makes a shitload of sense to me.

[soupey]

ive got a question, does having an amp closer to the system allow you to also use thinner wire?...the current through the main power wire won't be as high if there is a capacitor close to the amp that supplies needed current on demand..right? maybe thats a potential advantage to using a cap...

[hondarunner]

well when you install caps, they say to keep it within 5 feet (of wireing), to get the optimal performance, so i would think it would make a difference

[s10andy]

don't ever cheap out by using thin wire..no matter what, like sub speaker wire use a 12 guage.., for main power wire use at least a 4, from a cap to amp, or a distributon block to amps use like a 8. the only wires i would say r o.k to cheap on is like a remote wire..

[npham]

I get so mad when reading these posts about caps.



for all those that say caps r useless, i totally disagree.. i had a phoinex gold amp awhile back, hooked it up, and as soon as i would turn it up to a louder volume the amp would shut doen, not thermal protection, it was because the lack of juice, put a cap on it and everything was totally fine, and don't even try to tell me it was because a weak battery, ot a weak alternator, because the car was brand new, not even 2 weeks old.. caps r a great help.. and yes there is alot of other stuff that u can do to get the power u need. the only statement i disagree with in those whole forum is the caps r usless!! meh


It doesn't matter if the car is new and the battey is new. All that matters is how much current does your alternator put out? How good of a battery came with the car?

Oh "extreme audio", aka competitors, do not always use caps. It really depends on their class they are running. Some of them run like 10 batteries, and the amps see like 17volts or more. Some let you have the car on, some just run off the batteries. Sometimes these guys can't take a risk, and the slightest voltage drop could ruin them. So .5volts doesn't mean anything to us, but to them it's a db, and with comps being so close, a db could mean 1st or 3rd.

PS. Hondarunner, you dumb. There's no way around it. Do you really think some will use 4 farads for a JBL 1200.1? I'd be more surprised the amp doesn't shut off and burn up.

[s10andy]

thanx for helpin me prove my point a lil bit.. some car don't have extreme alts.. and now what would u rather do, spend a couple hundred gettin a upgraded alt, or would u rather spend like $100 gettin a cap.... geeee let think, i think cap........

[npham]

STFU. What' the hell is an extreme alternator? You can go down to a shop and they will re-wind your alternator for the cost of a cap. There's your current.

Why don't you try upgrading the Big 3 wires? Why put a bandaid on a wound when it really needs stitches? See my point.

[s10andy]

when i say a extreme alt i would be refering to one that is ebtter then stock.. so let me get his rightm, u can take ur car in to a mech, rewid ur alt for the same price of a cap... well wound't ghettin a cap just be quciker and easy.. plus most new caps have a digital read out tellin how many volts ur gettin, i think thats a good lil bonus opition..... oh ya and by the way.. why don't u stfu, and fuckin grow up...lol..upgrading the big 3 wheels..lol.. why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!..lol

[npham]

Do you even know what the Big 3 are?

[Lennon]

Originally posted by npham
STFU. What' the hell is an extreme alternator? You can go down to a shop and they will re-wind your alternator for the cost of a cap. There's your current.

Why don't you try upgrading the Big 3 wires? Why put a bandaid on a wound when it really needs stitches? See my point.

Yeah, and if its a new car, there goes your warrenty.

[hondarunner]

Originally posted by npham
Do you even know what the Big 3 are?
no we dont
plz enliten us mr. knowitall

[npham]

well I don't know it all, but I hate seeing you guys doing things, not wrong, but want to show you guys there's a better way of doing things.

If you upgrade the wire from the alternator to battery, engine block to alternator and then the negative of your battery to the frame. You will free up some current.

[s10andy]

why would u wanna do that.. its so dam simple just hookin a cap up,, thats what they r made for...... u don't have to make things so complicated ya know.. its not exactly a better way of doin things.. say u got a guy who doesn't know anything about car.. and takes all of his stuff to shop.... hes gunna pay alot more for a shop to rewire everything, the re wire the alt.. when he will pay like $30 gettin a dam cap instaled.... it makes sense to me

[npham]

It makes sense that you do it yourself and learn something.

[s10andy]

:confused: .. what no personal shot, or nuthin harsh to say??? that weird npham.. u finally got my piont.. i am glad to see that...... now we can all just get along.....lol

[bigredishott]

EXTRA BATTERIES CAPS SUCK after a while they run down and it as if its not even there and dont slack on the batteries get get dry cells and make sure u have a good alternator

1 comp i ever went 2 put my car in as a joke and took 2nd for sound quality (judge told me would have been 1st if it wasnt 4 my power wire running through my door jam ) was running junk 4 lows 2 12" crunch's of a fosgate amp and infinity kappas 3 ways 4 my highs all the way around powered by a soundstream and a pioner deck

looking 4 a fosgate power 1000.2 2 match the 1 i have got a set of 12" ground zeros i wanna power 1 amp per sub is perfect 4 them i think its the 2001 model (right before they got the round side covers

[Phat_Tercel_YO!]

Originally posted by s10andy
why would u wanna do that.. its so dam simple just hookin a cap up,, thats what they r made for...... u don't have to make things so complicated ya know.. its not exactly a better way of doin things.. say u got a guy who doesn't know anything about car.. and takes all of his stuff to shop.... hes gunna pay alot more for a shop to rewire everything, the re wire the alt.. when he will pay like $30 gettin a dam cap instaled.... it makes sense to me

I usually like to stay very impartial to these arguements, but you are coming across very ignorant and increasingly stupider.

For starters, capacitors were a fad started by a guy who by no coincidence, was part of a company in the process of building capacitors (in fact, all caps are only made by 2 or 3 companies, guess what, same with amps and subs, but there are more like 6 or 7 for them). The idea was as simple as using it to stiffen the power supply, or in other words, when the voltage drops, it would provide a bit of extra voltage in it's reserve.
That didn't work so well. If you do the math, under a full out bass note the capacitor will discharge in under a tenth of a second. The capacitor then needs to recharge, (this takes the exact same amount of time, but the rate is inversed) which then draws current from the system. Throughout all this charging and discharging, the capacitor is acting as a sort of filter also. Maybe this is good for SQ, I dunno, but it is bad for SPL competition. I lose between a tenth and 2 tenths of a dB when I hook a cap up.

Now onto my real ranting and raving.

Upgrading your big 3 is almost essential to a daily driven vehicle, and must NEVER be confused with "just hookin a cap up,, thats what they r made for".
You have a few major power wires under your hood.
Firstly, you have the ground wire from your battery to your chassis. Unless you play your stereo with the car off and a direct negative run to your battery, this is essential. What is the point of running a 4 gauge ground off your amp to the chassis when it only goes through a 12 gauge wire at the battery?
I would consider this the easiest and most important of the "big 3". Upgrade it. Period. It does not void your warranty... the original can be replaced just as easily.

Secondly, Your positive battery to the alternator wire.
This is essential to getting the loads of current your alternator may be supplying to the battery and the system.
For starters, your system does not run directly off of the alternator, nor is the alternator there for that purpose. The alternator is the to recharge the voltage lost by the battery for normal operation. I would consider normal operation as running headlights, turn signals, brake lights, cigarette lighter and stock stereo. I would not lump 1500 watt amplifiers into this category, and I would seriously be kidding myself if I thought automobile manufacturers put a bigger alternator in the car than was absolutely neccessary. Still, when your battery is dropping down to 10 volts, and the alt is trying to recover the 2.6 plus, it will be moving some decent current through that wire, it makes no sense to restrict that any more than you can help. 4 gauge at least, I use 1/0, it is fairly cheap for the length (in fact you can buy 1/0 battery cables at crappy tire for around $8-$15 depending on length... perfect for upgrading the big 3).

The last of the big 3 is sometimes even two parts. That would be your engine ground, and alt ground.
Alternator ground may fall into the last category, and for the same reasons. Engine ground, some have found noise enter their system through this wire, psychoacoustically or not, I don't know, but as long as your upgrading every other wire, might as well take a few minutes to do this as well.

As far as the whole capacitor debate goes, I would put these components in order of importance.

1. Battery, this is 95% of importance. I have only upgraded alternators in one of my vehicles, but the battery in every single one. Alternators can be rewound to roughly 20-30% more amperage rating... if you have an amp drawing 300 amps of current, and a stock alt of 50 amps, you can rewind that to get an extra 15 amps to your amplifier. 15 out of 300 is, for lack of a better term... fuck all. A decent battery of good quality will be able to handle that load much better. Note... my definition of a decent battery will probably weigh a significant amount more than the stock one.

2. Alternator, this is 5% of importance. I do agree that if you have the funds, you can get a rewound alternator that will help your battery recover a lot better, but I do not think it is of that much importance, since I have found it does not make that much of a difference. A good point on aftermarket alternators though, is that you can regulate the voltage to your liking. 15.5 volts will recover batteries better, but shorten their life, and possibly damage equipment (17.9 volts burns out lightbulbs, computers and other equipment).

3. Capacitor, importance? You do the math.

[Stonewall]

Originally posted by s10andy
why would u wanna do that.. its so dam simple just hookin a cap up,, thats what they r made for...... u don't have to make things so complicated ya know..
Not upgrading the main 3 is like trying to suck up a frosty through a 1cm straw, would you rather not have the super sized straw? (:D only anology I could think of)

[spike98]

I think phat tercel posted the BEST and most informed post in this whole topic.

100% agreed man!

[Tyler883]

phat-tercel,

All you have to do is take apart your favorite electronic product.......see that little ceramic chip that is placed next to EVERY integrated curcuit? That is a capacitor!!! Can you guess what it's primary function is?!?!?!?

The value of a decoupling cap in electronic designs is so universally accepted, talk to any electrical engineer and he'll be happy to bored the hell out of you with a lengthy discussion about it.

[Tyler883]

BTW, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do all of that work that you're are talking about.

I am saying that if you were an engineer, you would do all that work, then USE A CAP, as well. - LOL