In Canada there are two sets of laws...

[Toms-SC]

Those for natives and those for non-natives.

Case and point: 1 year later the case of Caledonia

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...82128-sun.html

From what I can gather there was a land dispute over the reserve land and a housing development. Instead of doing it the right way, the natives stormed the development and have taken it over. They blocked and tore up roads to prevent entry. At one point in time they dropped the road block but the locals (non-natives) blocked the road in a counter protest. Mean while the OOP try to keep control, the politically correct way! IE. doing nothing.

I thought this would have been resolved by now. I guess not if the non-natives are planning on taking the law into their own hands. Just send the military in and crush them out.

Freelance site:
http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/latestnews.html

Decent Photo Album:
http://voiceofcanada.wordpress.com/caledonia-photos/

[Crymson]

That caledonia website, is the WORST website i think i've ever seen, that expects to be taken seriously.

Looks like an ascii dos program from 1987

[Super_Geo]

What does it matter? This confrontation leaves a black mark on the whole town... no one is going to want to move there, businesses will feel the pinch and relocate, etc.

The people living there should sell their property and move on... but then again, it's hard giving these hicks credit for having that much foresight. I suppose it'll dawn on them in a few years when they're happier than a pig in shit to be finally moving into a community that will be a ghost town in a couple more years.

I'm not saying that what the Natives are doing is right... but the locals sure do a good job of looking like a bunch of fucking rednecks.

[TKRIS]

For anyone who disagrees with Toms-SC assertion that natives get to play by a severely relaxed set of rules, I ask you this:
If me and a couple dozen of my cracker ass friends blocked a major highway with our trailers and walked around with guns in the middle of the road, how do you think the cops would handle it. I suspect there would be a tactical team, a bunch of tear gas, and a shitload of prison time handed out...

Kris

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by TKRIS

If me and a couple dozen of my cracker ass friends blocked a major highway with our trailers and walked around with guns in the middle of the road...

Kris

... and dug up the road with a backhoe...

If the Caledonians were smart, they'd find a way to break through... I hear the Hells Angels are excellent security workers... just ask Mick Jagger

[asuth077]

This thread is boring when everyone agrees.

Here I'll play devils advocate....

If it is their land don't they have the right to fight for it?

Lets say one day the US decided that part of Canada was their's and they wanted to take it. Would we fight?

[hjr]

ya, im not so sure that the natives are 'wrong'. they are not nessisarily going about it the best way, but this country has a marked history of fuckin with them. i know that that is a contentious issue for some people, but it is pretty true. (not in every case, but generally). there is a reason the reserves in this country are basically the 3rd world, and only half of it is the natives fault

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by asuth077
This thread is boring when everyone agrees.

Here I'll play devils advocate....

If it is their land don't they have the right to fight for it?

Lets say one day the US decided that part of Canada was their's and they wanted to take it. Would we fight?

Its not theirs, thats the thing. Just because they roamed that land years ago it gives them no right set up barricades and act like retards.

If I build a treefort in the woods, and a company that bought the land comes along, can I hold 'rights' because I was there first?

[Toma]

You are quite correct.

Natives and their reserves are not technically bound by our laws.

I say good for them.

[hjr]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Its not theirs, thats the thing. Just because they roamed that land years ago it gives them no right set up barricades and act like retards.

If I build a treefort in the woods, and a company that bought the land comes along, can I hold 'rights' because I was there first?

if the government negotiated with you to get that land for people to settle on, leaving you with a fraction of your original land but with treaty benefits such as hunting rights or whatever, then hundreds of years later they take away the land you were left with, then yes.

did that happen to you?

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by hjr
if the government negotiated with you to get that land for people to settle on, leaving you with a fraction of your original land but with treaty benefits such as hunting rights or whatever, then hundreds of years later they take away the land you were left with, then yes.

did that happen to you?

I don't see how that would justify their actions though. There is no such thing as calm, intelligent debate here unfortunately.

Only violence, irrationality and extremism.

[hjr]

no, unfortunately not. the government sold off their land. they tried the reasonable approach but yielded not benefits, so they took it like 4 steps up and blocked the road, not allowing construction crews in... its not 'right' but what other choice did they have? i know there were others, but what else would have been effective enough to stop the construction (once it starts they are basically screwed)

[Toma]

Originally posted by Canmorite


I don't see how that would justify their actions though. There is no such thing as calm, intelligent debate here unfortunately.

Only violence, irrationality and extremism.

Yeah, but when the government goes above you with red tape, politics, beurocracy, lawyers, and bog you down for years at GREAT expense.... fuck it if you can get a way with it.

Like HJR said.... it was actually us that forced the treaties on them, and shoved them onto reservations to begin with, which are actually "mini nations"... after killing them by the hundrds of thousands for the land..... and now we want more?

[Canmorite]

I don't know much about the history/land claims of first nations people, but I do think this is out of control.

[codetrap]

.

[Kona9]

What has 8 teeth and 42 legs?













































A native Road Block

[hjr]

i understand what you are saying, and i tend to agree with the notion that people should fend for themselves and be independent and free (what i see as you base concepts) but i need to point a few things out...

Originally posted by codetrap

My family came to this country 4 generations back. They had nothing at all. The built their farm, they raised their children, they built a future.

4 generations ago natives were not allowed to own property in the same way as your ancestors. they were 'wards' of the state, basically meaning the government was their guardian. this law, which treats human beings like children, was based on the racial attitude that they could not sort things out for themselves, so the state had to do it for them.

Originally posted by codetrap

What prevented any native from doing the same? Nothing at all, except they made a choice to stay on the reserve. To stay a victim.

This statement here in no way is representative of the average situation of a native person in this country. in the past, they were often forced to stay on reserves, and currently the racism in this country towards natives is an extremely strong incentive to stay out of the 'white' society. natives in the country are treated like blacks in the american south, fuckin terribly.

Originally posted by codetrap

They have so many damn freebies as it stands now, there is no reason at all they should not be able to simply BUY the land in Caledonia, and BUY their own farms. BUY their own land. Then (now hold on to your shorts here) they're NO LONGER DEPENDENT on the goodwill of the current political regime. Isn't this a novel concept?

-some- have freebies. some. but i like the basic idea here.

Originally posted by codetrap

And the whole smozzle about "this was our land before you arrived here".. the key form is "WAS". They were conquered. Economically, socially, and physically. Get over it, move on, and preserve your culture in synchronicity with the rest of the world.

this is a VERY common misconception in canada. the natives were NEVER conquered. unlike the US, canada had no way to conquer the natives, in fact, we were dependent on them for a long time. (ie- they helped defend canada when the americans invaded waaay back when. we wouldnt be here without them).
Natives in canada formed treaties with the british or french governments and later the canadian. these treaties were just that, treaties. agreement between two equal partners for mutual benefit. (or so it was supposed to be) THe natives were almost immediately screwed over on numerous occasions despite their treaty rights. They were never 'defeated', rather tricked.

Originally posted by codetrap

Create your own 'nativetown' on the edge of the city.. not like the current one, but one where you can celebrate your cultural differences. There's a chinatown in just about every major metro centre. Perhaps the "natives" could learn something from the Chinese.

interesting point. potentially good idea, though ignored issues pertaining to their attachment to certain land.

Originally posted by codetrap

In any event, this whole problem could have been avoided if the Europeans settling Canada simply had been a little less civilized and wiped out the native population instead of attempting to cater to it.

as i mentioned in the earlier paragraph, this would have been impossible. the natives made it possible to settle the west of Montreal. besides the point that what you speak of is extremely disgusting. i never thought i would see someone advocate genocide on this forum in such a sincere way. if you were talking about jews, blacks, chinese, arabs, basically anyone else, and you would be banned. i doubt that will happen here.

[Toms-SC]

Although harsh, it appears the Natives are better off in US and A. I would be curious to compare stats of the Canadian Natives and American Natives.

[hjr]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Although harsh, it appears the Natives are better off in US and A. I would be curious to compare stats of the Canadian Natives and American Natives.

you say they are better off then state that you dont actually know. in point of fact, they really arnt. maybe a bit. not much though

[TegLover]

Originally posted by hjr
you say they are better off then state that you dont actually know. in point of fact, they really arnt. maybe a bit. not much though

As "american" natives, atleast they aren't as dependent and like to milk our system. Thats some pretty solid observation.