$50 oil, now what?

[Darkane]

Yeah brutal. I think it's all the oil that was floating in the tankers that was sold off. The states are basically producing 500,000 bbls more than they were at the low. All things equal OPECs cuts should be helping the glut will just take more time.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by pheoxs
Any reason for the 10% drop?

People working very hard to keep prices up artificially. They cant do it forever. Also, large amounts of fake Nymex contracts like I pointed out on page 3.

If you don't read Phil's stock world. You should. His facebook group is good. http://www.philstockworld.com/2017/0...n-the-markets/

[Gestalt]

I haven't been paying attention to Shell, but wow, that sure seems like bad news for us. What do you patchers think? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...oil-sands-sale

[A790]

Originally posted by Gestalt
I haven't been paying attention to Shell, but wow, that sure seems like bad news for us. What do you patchers think? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...oil-sands-sale

They also went on record saying that they want to see a carbon tax applied due to public perception of the industry.

People assume O&G companies are just O&G. In reality, they're energy companies. When they believe it's time to switch gears, they will.

And that will be sooner than most people (especially on here) think.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7622211.html

[ExtraSlow]

Shell came out publicly about two years ago saying they no longer considered themselves an oil company, they thought of themselves as mostly dedicated to supplying the world with natural gas.

[Gestalt]

This is going to happen very fast. I didn't know Australia has energy problems, but news today was Musk claimed he could fix them in 100 days or its free.

Then we have crazy new battery developments from the 97 year old that could invented lithium battery a 40 years ago. http://mobilesyrup.com/2017/03/08/co...-power-source/

All I can say is, Alberta better start looking forward instead of hanging on to the past.

[A790]

Originally posted by Gestalt
All I can say is, Alberta better start looking forward instead of hanging on to the past.

But climate change isn't real.

Oil is in everything. Try living without it.

Blah blah blah.

Pot isn't medicine.

[Gestalt]

Is it even relevant at this point if it's real?

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Is it even relevant at this point if it's real?

It's all wishful thinking. None of these solutions you keep touting are going to be applicable in the short term or long term. Do you have any idea how much power we use on a day to day basis? Do you have any idea how large of a battery bank would be required to power even a small city for a short period of time? Sit down work out some actual math and then you can see what people who work in power distribution have been talking about for years. Unless we go with something like nuclear(The only feasible solution for climate change) the rest of that shit be it solar, wind, batteries is just band aid small scale crap. Not to mention imagine the environmental cost of trying to replace/refurbish the amount of batteries any of these hair brained ideas would entail. Batteries are great for storage of small amount of power but it's sheer idiocy to even advance it as a solution for the power grid.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[suntan]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Is it even relevant at this point if it's real?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...em-and-em-coal

Note: Requires you to read and comprehend. I'm fairly sure you're capable of neither.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Stop stealing my lines



I don't really understand how going from mining oil is any better than mining for heavy metals

You might be reducing C02, but extracting oil is rather clean when compared to heavy metal mining. It is far more environmentally destructive, and it tends to get into the environment and create serious long term health issues for local populations.

I'd rather risk death from a 2 degree warmer summer day than from mercury, arsenic, cadmium, lead or chromium poisoning.

Pretty easy I think. A barrel of sludge extracted or diluted with exotic chemicals, causing earthquakes, making drinking water flammable, then refined might fuel your SUV for a week, while releasing ugly stuff into the air


A barrel of lithium, or silicone or what not will make 3 solar panels that will produce energy for 30 years.

[ZenOps]

Solar panels producing electricity isn't all that impossible from a practical standpoint.

I mean, oil people tend to take the most expensive panel scenarios - the ones they tend to make for space.

But you can make a ridiculous number of cheaper panels that last about 1/3rd as long and half as efficient, by using simple sand as the main ingredient. The main thing is, no one mass produces solar panels on anywhere near the scale necessary to make it competitive (and arguably its far more important to make a chemical battery first, to store the energy when nighttime hits)

If you happen to have a lot of open land that is not otherwise doing anything (like using the solar energy to grow food) its not all that bad of an idea.

But build the Gigafactory first.

Trump wall built in four years - impractical. China manned moon mission by 2050 - impractical. Half the planet on solar power - doable.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Gestalt


Pretty easy I think. A barrel of sludge extracted or diluted with exotic chemicals, causing earthquakes, making drinking water flammable, then refined might fuel your SUV for a week, while releasing ugly stuff into the air


A barrel of lithium, or silicone or what not will make 3 solar panels that will produce energy for 30 years.

Oil sands mining doesn't cause earth quakes or make drinking water flammable.

Lithium isnt mined.

You need to nip this stupid attitude in the butt.

[R154]

There is absolutely no point talking about energy with half the people on this board anymore.

Mazdavirgin said what I've been banging on about for years.

People get caught up in the mentality where a scientific discovery today makes them believe that tomorrow the whole system changes.

It fucking doesnt.

Energy changes glacially. If you think that oil companies are going to let money sit on or in the ground you're absolutely and outlandishly foolish. Public perception does not directly drive monopolized industries. They appease you. But they ain't chipping out. You think Shell sold out of their light crude positions, too? Really believe they will abandon their significant holdings in the middle east? Their Alberta portfolio just became to risky for them.

Alberta is shooting itself in the foot. The whole world can see it. The big guys are counting their losses and leaving. To be successful in a publicly demonized industry you have to appear to be doing something. The problem is larger than our political landscape. The whole world has found certain key facets of o&g to launch an all out opinion war on. Unfortunately for us, that is pipelines (need them) and any kind of surface mining (coal/sands). Processes that involve injection (fracing/sagd). We have become a scapegoat in a massive way. Our country is turning on the industry wholly which is a signal to the market that we arent looking to be expansion/dev friendly.

The shell deal is bigger than what it appears to be on its face as they just completed some massive upgrades to Jackfish and MRM. That is a huge kick in our teeth. A sign of the times. Good for CNRL though.

Phillip Morris still sells cigs. They just don't openly advertise. comprendez? Its not like the whole industry is packing it in. Sometimes you gotta chop an arm off to save the body.

You think those Alberta coal plants are being replaced with solar panels?

They aren't. They're being replaced with natural gas generators. How do I know? I am one of many manufactures building them. Gigawatts are coming online.

The big effect of solar that the public doesn't seem to realize is that for every unit of energy produced by ANY source beit solar/wind/tidal movement/kinetic energy harvested from sjw's typing; an equal amount of 'reliable' power made by generators/combustion must also be built in order to supplant or accept load when those sources aren't producing. This is because "green" sources by definition can only produce and electrify the grid when their energy sources are available; whereas, traditional production can function 24/7 without any disruption. Those rules are law and mandate. Scientifically until energy storage can be made more viable we are slaves to on-demand power sources.

Problem with the apple iPhone generation is they want their cake and to eat it too. Elon musk may make you believe he is changing the environmental footprint; however, like others, he is making money of ignorance. It has become easy to sell someone a dream rather than a functioning product. A bunch of marketing geniuses have found a way to sell products as legitimate technology before it actually works.

The rise in solar farms is a feel good experiment, but with no way to "save" electricity and deploy it scalably its just a bunch of fancy reflectors in a desert.

You think all that plastic and lithium just fucking appears?

You understand how bad for the environment any mining is? Surface mining vs deep strip mining? Have any of you been to the oilsands and the huge mining operation out east in the Canadian shield? No? Then shut the fuck up.

I have a real problem with non experts making opinions and assumptions that politicians set as public policy on things that require real experts with pragmatic and sensible planing. Like leo, its fashionable to piss on peoples heads and call it rain.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


Oil sands mining doesn't cause earth quakes or make drinking water flammable.

Lithium isnt mined.

You need to nip this stupid attitude in the butt.

Forest for the trees.

Did I get that one right?

[R154]

Originally posted by Gestalt


Pretty easy I think. A barrel of sludge extracted or diluted with exotic chemicals, causing earthquakes, making drinking water flammable, then refined might fuel your SUV for a week, while releasing ugly stuff into the air


A barrel of lithium, or silicone or what not will make 3 solar panels that will produce energy for 30 years.

Lithium is currently extracted in vast quantities in south america where they use dissolved lithium compounds reacted with other compounds to make pure lithium.

They use massive amounts of industrial acids made from... you guessed it, hydrocarbons like oil.

Originally posted by https://www.thebalance.com/lithium-production-2340123

Salar brines can be described as underground reservoirs that contain high concentrations of dissolved salts, such as lithium, potassium and sodium. These are generally found below the surface of dried lakebeds, known as salars.

In order to extract lithium from brines, the salt-rich waters must first be pumped to the surface into a series of evaporation ponds where solar evaporation occurs over a number of months. Because salar brines naturally occur at high altitudes and in areas of low rainfall, solar evaporation is an ideal and cost-effective method for precipitating salts.

Potassium is often first harvested from early ponds, while later ponds have increasingly high concentrations of lithium. Economical lithium-source brines normally contain anywhere from a few hundred parts per million of lithium to upwards of 7000ppm.

When the lithium chloride in the evaporation ponds reaches an optimum concentration, the solution is pumped to a recovery plant where extraction and filtering removes any unwanted boron or magnesium.

It is then treated with sodium carbonate (soda ash), thereby precipitating lithium carbonate. The lithium carbonate is filtered, dried and ready for delivery. Excess residual brines are pumped back into the salar.

Lithium carbonate is a stable white powder, which is a key intermediary in the lithium market because it can be converted into specific industrial salts and chemicals, or processed into lithium metal.


Extraction of lithium from spodumene and other minerals, in contrast with salar brine sources, requires a wide range of hydrometallurgical processes.

Galaxy Resources, which mines spodumene mined in Australia, for example, first crushes and heats the ore in a rotary calcining kiln in order to convert the lithium crystal phase from alpha to beta (a process referred to as decrepitation). This allows the lithium present in the ore to be displaced by sodium.

The resulting spodumene concentrate is cooled and milled into a fine powder before being mixed with sulpheric acid and roasted again.

A thickener-filter system then separates waste from the concentrated liquor, while precipitation removes magnesium and calcium from this solution.

Finally, soda ash is added and lithium carbonate is crystallized, heated, filtered and dried as 99 percent pure lithium carbonate.

Converting lithium into metal form is done in an electrolytic cell using lithium chloride.

The chloride is mixed with potassium chloride in a ratio of 55 percent lithium chloride to 45 percent potassium chloride in order to produce a molten eutectic electrolyte. Potassium chloride is added to increase the conductivity of the lithium while lowering the fusion temperature.


When fused and electrolyzed at about 450°C chlorine gas is liberated while molten lithium rises to the surface of the electrolyte, collecting in cast iron enclosures. The pure lithium produced is wrapped in paraffin wax to prevent oxidization. The conversion ratio of lithium carbonate to lithium metal is about 5.3 to 1.

Although Chile and Australia are the world's largest lithium sources, the US, Argentina and China are also major producers. The market for lithium is heavily dominated by four companies: Sociedad Química y Minera de Chile (Chile), Chemetall (Germany), FMC (USA) and Talison (Australia).

Lithium carbonate is generally sold on three to five year contracts from miners to refiners, including those listed above, who produce and market downstream chemicals and lithium metal.

So lets review that, they drill into resevoirs of trapped water beds and pump them into holding ponds before processing them industrially.

How long before they start pumping water back down to redillute solid deposits you ask? ITS ALREADY HAPPENING.

...ON NOES THE WATER TABLEZZZZ!!?!?!?

Bunch of fucking idiots.

One devil to another.

Just to caught up in an endless cycle of headlines. read you fucking idiot, read.

[Gestalt]

Again single use, burning to the atmosphere with all the same associated waste and used water. chemicals, contaminants, dilutence. 35 billion barells a year burnt essentially.

Or. 30+ years use of producing energy, or storing it. The scales involved aren't even in the same ball park,

Pretty straight forward. It's not even comparable. i don't understand the mindsets necessary to create the excuses you guys are.

[Gestalt]

And let's stop with the childish all or nothing bs. Of course it won't be zero. But we are talking about huge reductions. Yuge.

[R154]

How can it be a huge reduction if one must build 2 power generation devices for every 1 solar/wind farm built!???

Avoid all that and build ONE efficient power generation device like nuclear or massive geothermal (in the right regions).

I am talking about the mentality that solar is saving the world when it isn't and can't. Not only do you have to produce the panels, but that electricity still must be "stored" in batteries and transmitted on a grid. on top of that rolling reserves are constructed side by side.

The general public doesnt like nuclear. Even though it is the absolute best.