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Thread: Autopilot Showdown: Tesla P85D vs Mercedes E63S Wagon

  1. #41
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    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    Personally I hope I'll be dead before self-driving cars and the eventual Government controlled traffic flow/speed is the norm.
    You don't have to worry because ~4-5 months out of the year here they wouldn't be able to operate. If everything was 100% automated though, you would probably get most places faster due to no bad or discourteous drivers which aside from artificially low speed limits are the biggest hold-up.

    Even my lowly Civic can drive itself down Deerfoot these days (including corners, braking, and acceleration) it's pretty cool but I'd never trust it completely.

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    Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
    You don't have to worry because ~4-5 months out of the year here they wouldn't be able to operate.
    This is where we were wrong on this. There has been advancements over the last 2 years in regards to camera and radar technology that can see better through bad weather conditions. Also, the systems are starting to get to the point where it's recognizing objects and determining where the lanes should go like a human would. Mercedes-Benz's Drive Pilot does this, as well as the latest Autopilot update from Tesla.

    The big advancements though is machine and collaborative learning. Ford and Google have been collecting and leveraging the data, while Tesla is just collecting the data. Cars driving on roads in good weather would learn everything and send that back up to the cloud for processing. When snow covers things that needs to be tracked, cars driving through would leverage that data to drive through properly like it was dry.

    There are good reasons to use fully autonomous driving, even for car enthusiasts. While it's still a blast to throw a car around the corner here and there, there are a lot of mundane driving duties such as long highway trips, or bumper to bumper traffic where it's nice to let the car do the work.

    edit - Here's Ford's early system where the cars were pre-fed detailed positioning data: https://www.wired.com/2016/01/the-cl...igate-in-snow/
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  3. #43
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    Originally posted by rage2

    This is where we were wrong on this. There has been advancements over the last 2 years in regards to camera and radar technology that can see better through bad weather conditions. Also, the systems are starting to get to the point where it's recognizing objects and determining where the lanes should go like a human would. Mercedes-Benz's Drive Pilot does this, as well as the latest Autopilot update from Tesla.

    The big advancements though is machine and collaborative learning. Ford and Google have been collecting and leveraging the data, while Tesla is just collecting the data (no clue on actual data quality for all 3). Cars driving on roads in good weather would learn everything and send that back up to the cloud for processing. When snow covers things that needs to be tracked, cars driving through would leverage that data to drive through properly like it was dry.

    There are good reasons to use fully autonomous driving, even for car enthusiasts. While it's still a blast to throw a car around the corner here and there, there are a lot of mundane driving duties such as long highway trips, or bumper to bumper traffic where it's nice to let the car do the work.
    That is super cool, I didn't know that's how they were doing it. I thought they always had to see the lines and no rain, no snow, etc. to prevent momentary gaps in the data feed.

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    Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
    That is super cool, I didn't know that's how they were doing it. I thought they always had to see the lines and no rain, no snow, etc. to prevent momentary gaps in the data feed.
    Tesla is aiming for full autonomous driving by the end of the year, pending regulatory approval. That's probably the biggest hurdle right now. Tesla's test vehicles in good weather using HW2 already looks really impressive today.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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  5. #45
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    Originally posted by rage2

    Tesla is aiming for full autonomous driving by the end of the year, pending regulatory approval. That's probably the biggest hurdle right now. Tesla's test vehicles in good weather using HW2 already looks really impressive today.
    I can see something like that getting revoked and the whole autonomous industry having huge setbacks after the first person is killed after they pass that approval. And these autonomous cars are probably better drivers than most people, at least in Calgary.

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    These autonomous cars are for sure better drivers than most people. You have to take into account that all beyond members are in the top 1% of driving skill and would be in F1 if it was based on merit.
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    Originally posted by rage2

    This is where we were wrong on this. There has been advancements over the last 2 years in regards to camera and radar technology that can see better through bad weather conditions. Also, the systems are starting to get to the point where it's recognizing objects and determining where the lanes should go like a human would. Mercedes-Benz's Drive Pilot does this, as well as the latest Autopilot update from Tesla.

    The big advancements though is machine and collaborative learning. Ford and Google have been collecting and leveraging the data, while Tesla is just collecting the data. Cars driving on roads in good weather would learn everything and send that back up to the cloud for processing. When snow covers things that needs to be tracked, cars driving through would leverage that data to drive through properly like it was dry.

    There are good reasons to use fully autonomous driving, even for car enthusiasts. While it's still a blast to throw a car around the corner here and there, there are a lot of mundane driving duties such as long highway trips, or bumper to bumper traffic where it's nice to let the car do the work.

    edit - Here's Ford's early system where the cars were pre-fed detailed positioning data: https://www.wired.com/2016/01/the-cl...igate-in-snow/
    Tesla uses the AP data as part of fleet learning. For any situation the car registers what you did and compares it to what AP would do. Through a huge number of these situations the system will "learn" to do better in the future.

    There seems to be quite a bit of haziness on the tesla forums as to how they actually implement this though.

    There was a pretty big setback to the AP system when Tesla parted ways with Mobileye and took AP software completely in house with version 8.0 software. It took a awhile but I'd say that for AP1 is back on par with where AP was with v7.1 software. It still does some wonky things when cresting hills but way better than the original v7 and early v8.0 days.
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    wow, I was always under the impression that AP vehicles would need "smart" lane markers (RFID?) to tell them where the road was in adverse conditions ....

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    Tesla's AP does need lane markers. It can follow the car in front of it for the most part but it does get squirrelly if it's on AP and the lane markers disappear. It generally won't let you activate AP if the lane markers aren't visible.

    It has surprised me at times when it says I can turn on AP even under some pretty adverse conditions. Sometimes I'm not even sure I can read the lane markers and AP is available.
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    It's because it's using curbs and other objects as reference.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Originally posted by rage2
    It's because it's using curbs and other objects as reference.
    That's correct. It definitely likes lane markers more though. When they are not there it's much more inconsistent as to when it will allow you to start AP. if you are in AP already it seems to work well referencing off other things.
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    It's only a matter of time until other manufacturers come up with an "auto pilot" so I'm not completely surprised to hear that Mercedes has developed a better system. Not sure it can do over the air updates like the Tesla. Being a Tesla owner now for 7 months, the autopilot is easily my favorite feature i use it all the time. 2nd favourite feature is over the air updates. Interested to see how autopilot has changed since i've purchased the car back in October. The AP that is currently in the car is definitely improved over the version when i purchased it. Its cool to know that it will only likely get better and I don't have to pay a cent for it. If the mercedes can't do this (and I suspect it can't), it is a bummer for a developing technology.
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    Once AP is able to nagivate roads like this, I would consider the technology mature:

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    Originally posted by revelations
    Once AP is able to nagivate roads like this, I would consider the technology mature:

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    Most humans can't do that.
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    Originally posted by ExtraSlow

    Most humans can't do that.
    click for larger version
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    Thats because they were driving an (truck) F150 with summer tires ....


    A smarter AP would perform regular tests of the road surface conditions with a planned brake test...... however, because there is no simple way to (yet) determine the friction coefficient of a contaminated road surface, the AP will drive 20 kph around all corners (or something super ridiculous) as it will assume the worst possible case.
    Last edited by revelations; 04-24-2017 at 09:32 AM.

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    Originally posted by VWEvo
    Its cool to know that it will only likely get better and I don't have to pay a cent for it.
    You are driving a rolling iPhone. Next gen AP will come out with new / better hardware and you won't get those "free" updates anymore. It's already happened once and I am sure some people who bought the Model S right before the new hardware are pissed.

    It's only a matter of time before other card companies follow suit on the OTA updates. People will begin to demand it.

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    Originally posted by revelations
    Once AP is able to nagivate roads like this, I would consider the technology mature:

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    It's not auto-chauffeur, it's autopilot. Even in aviation, the pilot takes over in inclement weather.

    If you're waiting for technology to let you nap in the car as it takes you to your destination, you're going to be waiting a long time.

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    Originally posted by asd913


    It's not auto-chauffeur, it's autopilot. Even in aviation, the pilot takes over in inclement weather.

    If you're waiting for technology to let you nap in the car as it takes you to your destination, you're going to be waiting a long time.

    Nooooo, thats what auto-land (Cat III for eg) is all about. The pilot becomes a systems monitor, until VERY short final - the decision heights (where the pilot takes over) are very low - <200ft from AGL.
    Last edited by revelations; 04-24-2017 at 09:47 AM.

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    Originally posted by benyl


    It's only a matter of time before other card companies follow suit on the OTA updates. People will begin to demand it.
    Keep dreaming. Car companies can't do over the air updates because of dealership power. Any update is considered a service and therefore must involve a dealer. Dealers won't allow it as they don't get paid.

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    Originally posted by revelations



    Nooooo, thats what auto-land (Cat III for eg) is all about. The pilot becomes a systems monitor, until VERY short final - the decision heights (where the pilot takes over) are very low - &lt;200ft from AGL.
    Really, so if turbulence hits the plane and it is being shaken to all shit, the pilot is drinking tea out of a sippy cup reading beyond.ca?

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