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Mitsu3000gt
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quote:

Originally posted by mzdspd


The Civic SI weighs 2800 lbs. vs 3100 lbs for a 5 door GTI. It also comes with an LSD, Adaptive suspension, a 6 speed manual and a engine that has most of its TQ at low RPM.

As much as I want to complain about the HP/TQ numbers, I want to give this car a chance. I just really hope that this car comes in at 30K or less.



MSRP on a Touring Sedan is $30,600, I think the Si will be a bit more even taking out the premium for the CVT. Maybe more like $32-$33K. It will still likely be a full $10K behind the R at that price.

Last edited by Mitsu3000gt on 04-06-2017 at 10:19 PM

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Darkane
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quote:

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I would much rather have the 1.5T over the N/A 2.4L from the ILX, but a DCT would be a fantastic option on all models. How would that motor shock anyone? Or do you mean if they turbo'd it?

I'm surprised so many people are obsessing over a few HP on a car that is almost surely underrated by a significant amount, and nobody even mentions torque.



I just meant that from almost day one people expected the Si to be turbo. Then 1.5 vs 2.0 debates were ongoing.

With the ilx/tlx k24 already making 206/182 they could easily keep the Si heratige with high rpm NA, and VTEC. This is the first Si without vtec since '91.

Also with just a better flowing exhaust 210hp from the K24 would be easy. And the "shocking part" would be a dct on the Si. It would much better match up against the GTi.

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Old Post 04-07-2017 03:29 AM
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Redlined_8000
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quote:

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


OK fair enough, let me ask a different way - if performance is in line with the competition (GTI, etc.), will you still be disappointed just because on paper the HP is listed at 205? Also if we acknowledge that every turbo motor is underrated, the power numbers can't be compared to any previous Si which are all N/A (which seems to be the source of disappointment for many). Compared to previous Si's, most people seem to be ignoring the torque as well, which is what they will feel way more than any HP gain.



If the Si is fun to drive, feels quick and rewarding AND can keep up decently to a GTI 6mt I will be impressed.

However I personally think a GTI will walk the Si all day both in a straight line and in corners.

A base 3-door GTI 6mt starts at 29.5k so its not even that far out in terms of pricing when comparing to a Civic Si coupe. And I prefer the interior of the GTI wayyyy more than the Civic.

Look at me the VW fanboy all the sudden lol. Times have changed...

To answer your question I honestly dont really care about the 205hp Civic number. I do care about the little 1.5T engine. That said though I do hope the Si is a well put together fun and balanced little car.

Last edited by Redlined_8000 on 04-07-2017 at 06:06 AM

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Hallowed_point
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quote:

Originally posted by Redlined_8000


If the Si is fun to drive, feels quick and rewarding AND can keep up decently to a GTI 6mt I will be impressed.

However I personally think a GTI will walk the Si all day both in a straight line and in corners.

A base 3-door GTI 6mt starts at 29.5k so its not even that far out in terms of pricing when comparing to a Civic Si coupe. And I prefer the interior of the GTI wayyyy more than the Civic.

Look at me the VW fanboy all the sudden lol. Times have changed...

To answer your question I honestly dont really care about the 205hp Civic number. I do care about the little 1.5T engine. That said though I do hope the Si is a well put together fun and balanced little car.



You're bang on with this. My brother picked up a 2015 GTI DSG recently. I was shocked at how luxurious it felt. The doors have that German "thump" when you close them next to the tinny sounding truck on my 09 Civic Si. And holy man can that thing corner. 140 kmph and the tires aren't even screeching. The only thing I liked better about my Si was the K20Z3 with the hondata and intake. Turbo will never sound as good as a screaming N/A honda.

I think that the 8th gen was the last good looking Si. This new one has way too much going on. It looks like it will transform into Starscream. But I do like the improvements to the suspension and increased torque. Turbo engines lack character imo though, so for that reason, among others: I'm out.

Last edited by Hallowed_point on 04-07-2017 at 04:17 PM

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Mitsu3000gt
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quote:

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


The doors have that German "thump" when you close them next to the tinny sounding truck on my 09 Civic Si.



The Civic Hatches have the same feeling/sound on the doors (I am extremely picky about this because of how cheap it sounds when they don't) - unfortunately the coupe and sedan do not, so the Si probably will not have that nice feeling of solidness unfortunately.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
The Civic Hatches have the same feeling/sound on the doors (I am extremely picky about this because of how cheap it sounds when they don't) - unfortunately the coupe and sedan do not, so the Si probably will not have that nice feeling of solidness unfortunately.



I guess that's the downside of light weight. My accord doors have a nice thump, but it's not like a german car.

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Old Post 04-07-2017 04:36 PM
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Mitsu3000gt
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quote:

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


I guess that's the downside of light weight. My accord doors have a nice thump, but it's not like a german car.



I don't think it has anything to do with the weight, because the Hatches are still under 3,000 lbs. I honestly don't know exactly what the differences are with regards to that, probably as sum of several small things. Obviously it's not as good as a big Audi or something similar, but it's miles ahead of the coupe/sedan.

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dimi
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quote:

Reading this thread would make you think the civic hatch is the best car in the world.

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Old Post 04-07-2017 07:39 PM
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quote:

Numbers are a bit lower than I hoped (except price), interior is toned down nicely, it at least warrants a test drive. Maybe I'll keep my 8th gen for another 10 years

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rage2
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quote:

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
I guess that's the downside of light weight. My accord doors have a nice thump, but it's not like a german car.


The thump has nothing to do with weight or quality. It's to do with Honda not investing any engineering efforts for better door closing thumps. The Germans have teams of engineers where their only job is to perfect that sound haha.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ound-here-s-how

If you google up car door thump, all the results are from Honda and Acura forums.

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Mitsu3000gt
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quote:

Leave it to the Germans to have entire teams dedicated to that sort of thing No wonder the cars are so expensive. I'm always reminded of the cup holders in the older MB's, they used to blow my mind with how much unnecessary engineering went into them.

I can't believe it has nothing at all to do with quality though. If a door rattles and sounds like a garbage can every time when you close it, compared to zero rattles and a nice thump, I have to believe there is a build quality difference there at least on some level. Same with driving the car - if it rattles over every bump and expansion gap vs. no rattles at all, I have to believe there is a difference in general build quality. I also assume that if things aren't rattling around as much, they probably last longer. The Germans seem to do this better than anyone else. The real test is a frameless door with the window down - on cars that can make that sound even half decent I am very impressed.

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mzdspd
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quote:

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I also assume that if things aren't rattling around as much, they probably last longer.



If this was the case then most people would be driving German cars.. But we all know that interior/suspension rattles do not correlate to reliability.

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quote:

So now Ford is copying the SI displacement lol. Probably more rumor/fake news, but the next Focus ST is hinted to be getting a 1.5T 4cyl with a claimed output of 275hp. I hope not.

The new Fiesta ST has a 1.5L 3cyl with 200hp/215lb-ft.

IDK about the Focus getting that power output with that displacement. There would be barely any room to get more out of it while already being stressed.

They just need to update the current 2.0T ST motor - really all it needs is a K04 to replace the K03 turbo and twinscroll, and stick the RS intercooler in there. 280+hp easily without breaking a sweat.

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quote:

Originally posted by tehwegz
So now Ford is copying the SI displacement lol. Probably more rumor/fake news, but the next Focus ST is hinted to be getting a 1.5T 4cyl with a claimed output of 275hp. I hope not.

The new Fiesta ST has a 1.5L 3cyl with 200hp/215lb-ft.

IDK about the Focus getting that power output with that displacement. There would be barely any room to get more out of it while already being stressed.

They just need to update the current 2.0T ST motor - really all it needs is a K04 to replace the K03 turbo and twinscroll, and stick the RS intercooler in there. 280+hp easily without breaking a sweat.



Even if the focus st is a 1.5T engine 275hp is frigging sweet from that displacement. That would be an achievement to be proud of at least. Not this 1.5T 205hp bullshit like in the Civic Si lol. 1.5T should have less headroom for tuning however...

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quote:

Sure is a lot of talk about bug hp #'s from super small engines lately. Due to the extreme rpm, and heat turbo's produce, I'm curious to see how half these cars are 10 years down the road, after some real world use......l.

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quote:

Originally posted by Deetz
Sure is a lot of talk about bug hp #'s from super small engines lately. Due to the extreme rpm, and heat turbo's produce, I'm curious to see how half these cars are 10 years down the road, after some real world use......l.



That's the one thing that's changed a lot. No more extreme rpm.

Fuel cutoff is less than 7k. Redline 6700 I believe

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Old Post 04-13-2017 12:50 PM
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quote:

Originally posted by mzdspd


If this was the case then most people would be driving German cars.. But we all know that interior/suspension rattles do not correlate to reliability.



Because someone who is looking at a kia or a budget corolla or a mazda 3 is really cross shopping an Audi or a MB.

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Mitsu3000gt
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quote:

A Honda rep said the Si engine is exactly the same 1.5T as the others, just with different programming. Hopefully that is true and then everyone else can just get a flash. He also said the coupe/sedan were engineered in North America, the Hatch was engineered in Japan - seems weird that they would separate design like that. Apparently that's why the Si got the 1.5T, because the North American team was most familiar with that engine and also the 2.0T would have been too expensive for their price point. I'll try and find the full article but it was just in my news feed yesterday.

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