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Thread: Deathtrap Dishwasher!

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    Default Deathtrap Dishwasher!

    .
    Last edited by 01RedDX; 10-12-2020 at 11:14 PM.

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    It's shocking the way some idiots half-ass their home reno's. People like this installer is the reason why we need a permit for everything these days.
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    Came back to ogle 2Legit2Quit wife's buns...
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    Originally posted by Tik-Tok
    It's shocking
    haaaaaaaaa, i see what you did there.

    If you take anything I have to say seriously, you're gunna have a bad time.
    1988 300zxt. gt35, stance coils, etc.
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    Originally posted by ercchry
    people are dumb, kids need to stop playing in the streets, SW soccer moms are the worst kind of people, the end

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    While I'll agree that the wiring was routed wrong, chances are a breaker would've tripped before anyone got hurt.
    Will fuck off, again.

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    Originally posted by speedog
    While I'll agree that the wiring was routed wrong, chances are a breaker would've tripped before anyone got hurt.
    Sorry speedog, but this doesn't make much sense. By the time the breaker tripped (if it even does), lots of things could have happened. Fire, shock hazard if the person was close enough to the exposed wire.. This isn't fear mongering either.

    It's just good this was caught in time before it dug deeper into the insulation.

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    Originally posted by speedog
    While I'll agree that the wiring was routed wrong, chances are a breaker would've tripped before anyone got hurt.
    Never had a improperly installed dryer shock you? That hurts.

    This could have easily caused a shock hazard which may not necessarily of killed someone but could definitely hurt someone.

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    Wow - crazy. Thanks for the PSA.

    Judging by the way the builders of my house performed so many shortcuts, I would not at all be surprised to find something like this myself.

    In fact, in regards to my own dishwasher, I know it never was installed quite right either...

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    .
    Last edited by 01RedDX; 10-12-2020 at 11:13 PM.

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    Originally posted by firebane
    Never had a improperly installed dryer shock you? That hurts.

    This could have easily caused a shock hazard which may not necessarily of killed someone but could definitely hurt someone.
    Been shocked by 110 before and while it's a jolt, it's nothing that a 220 dryer will give you.

    What I'm saying is that if the live wires had grounded out, they would've tripped the breaker. The risk of a shock to someone wouldn't have been that great. I worked in the telecom industry for over 25 years and a lot of it with both AC and DC power at voltages and amperages much greater than a 110V dishwasher and it has to be just the right circumstances for that exposed wire on the 110V dishwasher to harm you and especially so considering it probably is on a breaker protected circuit. What I've done with live wires at far greater voltages and currents than 110V would freak many people out - the risk was there in 01RedDx's situation but it was not so dire as many would make it out to be and certainly not the same as a 220V dryer.

    The great thing is that 01RedDx found it and addressed the situation so it presents little to no hazard in the future.

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    A 240v drier has 120v to ground like every other circuit in your house. One's not going to shock you worse than the other.

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    Originally posted by Darell_n
    A 240v drier has 120v to ground like every other circuit in your house. One's not going to shock you worse than the other.
    This.

    Since it takes only milliamps to kill you the voltage is irrelevant anyways.

    In addition a circuit breaker is designed to protect the wiring, not the device or the user. Again milliamps can kill so a 15 amp breaker isn't going to do you any good. If either of the current carrying conductors become bare because of that abrasion and the device is not grounded properly, or the part that made the abrasion isn't bonded to the device properly there's a serious risk of electric shock. I've seen everything from shower heads where the water supply is fed from a well pump, to hood fans, and lighting fixtures provide electrical shocks. It's more common than you'd think, and definitely not something to take lightly.

    Personal injury aside. I've seen a number of breakers that won't trip even when the "hot" wire is held to ground for an extended period of time, faulty breaker? Yup, but do you test your breakers on a regular basis, so how would you know? That in and of itself makes this scenario a potential fire hazard and a serious one.

    I've seen absolutely heinous electrical practises. Licensed electricians aren't exempt, but the vast majority have been done by home owners trying to save a buck, thinking Google has all the answers

    The situation described and the images posted in this thread have a definite possibility of being a hazard to person and/or property. Electricity has become so common place we really have become complacent about it. The electricity in your house should not be taken lightly, it has the ability to kill, and destroy property, and does both on a very regular basis.

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    What is an easy safe way to test your breakers from a home owners stand-point?

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    Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


    This.

    Since it takes only milliamps to kill you the voltage is irrelevant anyways.

    Yup.I think you where there when i found the insulation limits of my fluke meter.
    Too loud for Aspen

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    Originally posted by Maxt

    Yup.I think you where there when i found the insulation limits of my fluke meter.
    You were standing in a puddle I've never seen you jump like that, pretty scary shit.

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    Originally posted by jeffh
    What is an easy safe way to test your breakers from a home owners stand-point?
    Honestly from a home owners perspective there isn't one. It wouldn't be practical for a home owner to have the equipment to do so both for safety and monetary reasons. Fact of the matter is the average Electrician won't have the equipment either. Circuit breakers have a number of parameters and specifications. An electrical P. Eng would be able to go into considerably more detail. Reaction time, interupting rating etc. The best way to test a breaker is probably to remove it and bench test it in a lab setting. The impractical nature of testing circuit breakers highlights the reason they should be a last resort for protection. Proper installation should be the first level of protection.

    So what's a home owner to do? I believe there is a substantial list of recalled breakers, verifying you don't have one of them would be a start. I believe CSA tests new and older breakers and compiles the list on an ongoing basis, I'll see if I can track it down and post a link.

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    Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


    This.

    Since it takes only milliamps to kill you the voltage is irrelevant anyways.
    A little off-topic, but that's totally not true.
    Current through an object is not constant, and varies depending on the voltage and resistance of the object. Sure, only a few milliamps will kill you, but to produce those few milliamps of current through your body, you need to have a high enough voltage to breakdown your skin, or reduce your body's resistance.

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    Originally posted by ReflexFX


    A little off-topic, but that's totally not true.
    Current through an object is not constant, and varies depending on the voltage and resistance of the object. Sure, only a few milliamps will kill you, but to produce those few milliamps of current through your body, you need to have a high enough voltage to breakdown your skin, or reduce your body's resistance.
    You're right, my statement was misleading. Voltage is not irrelevant, for the reason you described, it's just irrelevant in this specific case because the minimum voltage to ground is high enough to cause everything from minor discomfort or death.

    The resistant value of the human body is more than that of say a piece of copper wire. There are variables there as well though, what's the path current takes through the body, how long and what diameter is the wire etc etc etc. When I made my statement it was on the basis that the nominal voltage being discussed is 120v to ground give or take the providers 5% allowable differential. That voltage should be enough to pass the milliamps needed to kill a human. Are there assumptions being made? Yes, we're assuming the individual isn't wearing rubber soled shoes in their house, or rubber gloves, even how sweaty a persons hands are will play a factor. My point was that 120v has the potential to kill, will it kill you every time? No, but if conditions are right there is the potential.

    Or are you saying that 120v is NOT high enough to overcome the resistance of the human body to pass the required milliamps to kill under any circumstances?
    Last edited by rx7_turbo2; 04-10-2014 at 07:15 AM.

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    I service 600v equipment daily and one of the worst shocks ever was from a telephone cord when I was a teenager. Stripping wires with teeth and a phone call are bad together.

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    Originally posted by Darell_n
    I service 600v equipment daily and one of the worst shocks ever was from a telephone cord when I was a teenager. Stripping wires with teeth and a phone call are bad together.
    Ringing voltage is AC and if I remember correctly, TELUS had their ringing generators set at 130V AC..

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    Originally posted by speedog

    Ringing voltage is AC and if I remember correctly, TELUS had their ringing generators set at 130V AC..
    Apprentices always ask "is that live?" The most common response from their Journeyman is "I don't know, why don't you lick it and find out"

    That's essentially what Darell did Ouch!

    ***Disclaimer***
    I don't advise anyone lick a wire to determine whether it's "live" or not.

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