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Thread: How Much $$$$ to Retire at 35?

  1. #141
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    If we're talking about living a bachelor life style indefinitely, then $3MM and certainly $10MM is excessive. If you're factoring other variables such as raising a family and other multipliers such as the spouse no longer working, then that could change things.

    I'd still say a $2MM net worth is sufficient. You also have to remember that your funds aren't just sitting in a chequing account doing nothing until you spend it. The majority of your money should be invested at least in some sort of dividend funds. The dividends on their own should pay a healthy stipend for a bachelor, with the principal significantly growing over the long term.

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    $150,000 per year is bare minimum. If you are 35, you should count on living to 85 or 90.

    $50k a year is poor house, especially if you have a nice house, and face $10k a year property taxes, high utilities, a $10k vacations 3 times a year, or wintering somewhere nice. A new care every 3 years, and your $50k is much more than done. That's not retirement, that's homeless persons wages. If that's all I had to live on to retire, and live less than I do now, I would keep working. No one wants to retire to be a bum, have to pinch pennies and watch their friends get ahead.

    You can't count on lucky stock market breaks when facing a large sum and 55 years to go. With 10 million, you park it in a 2% safe investment, just to keep up with inflation somewhat.

    10 mill is minimum for true retirement. But, if you have some sort of passive income scheme than nets you $5k a month with some real esatate you could retire soon as you are debt free, albeit the poor way, then as you age, you sell and live in style.

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    Originally posted by Gestalt
    $150,000 per year is bare minimum. If you are 35, you should count on living to 85 or 90.

    $50k a year is poor house, especially if you have a nice house, and face $10k a year property taxes, high utilities, a $10k vacations 3 times a year, or wintering somewhere nice. A new care every 3 years, and your $50k is much more than done. That's not retirement, that's homeless persons wages. If that's all I had to live on to retire, and live less than I do now, I would keep working. No one wants to retire to be a bum, have to pinch pennies and watch their friends get ahead.

    You can't count on lucky stock market breaks when facing a large sum and 55 years to go. With 10 million, you park it in a 2% safe investment, just to keep up with inflation somewhat.

    10 mill is minimum for true retirement. But, if you have some sort of passive income scheme than nets you $5k a month with some real esatate you could retire soon as you are debt free, albeit the poor way, then as you age, you sell and live in style.
    It's not "lucky stock market breaks". The 4% SWR is based on how the stock market has performed 98%+ of the time the past 100 years. You are just anticipating the average. Even with the 2008 financial crisis (probably the second worst stock market crash ever) the rule has held up.

    Also keep in mind that the money you withdraw will likely be more tax efficient than salary (dividends, capital gains). So $150K per year from you investments will be more like $200K salary.

    Lifestyle creep. Some people are anticipating upgrading their lifestyle to match their new networth, hence the "I need $10M" to retire. Others are just applying their current lifestyle with their current expenses. Essentially take your life as it is now, the only thing different is that you don't have to wake up to go to work every day.

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    Originally posted by holden


    *snip*

    Essentially take your life as it is now, the only thing different is that you don't have to wake up to go to work every day.
    But I wouldn't want to retire with my lifestyle (house, cars, etc) that I have today; I have higher goals than where I'm at... it makes no sense to settle with what I have now if I want to achieve something more. Furthermore if I dropped my job right now, I'd have a shitload of time to fill (i.e. hobbies to take on), which would eat up a lot more of the money.

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    Agreed, people.the throw around stupid low early retirement needs want to spend the next 50 years collecting coupons.

    That's not retirement. That's torture.

  6. #146
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    Originally posted by Gestalt
    $150,000 per year is bare minimum. If you are 35, you should count on living to 85 or 90.

    $50k a year is poor house, especially if you have a nice house, and face $10k a year property taxes, high utilities, a $10k vacations 3 times a year, or wintering somewhere nice. A new care every 3 years, and your $50k is much more than done. That's not retirement, that's homeless persons wages. If that's all I had to live on to retire, and live less than I do now, I would keep working. No one wants to retire to be a bum, have to pinch pennies and watch their friends get ahead.

    You can't count on lucky stock market breaks when facing a large sum and 55 years to go. With 10 million, you park it in a 2% safe investment, just to keep up with inflation somewhat.

    10 mill is minimum for true retirement. But, if you have some sort of passive income scheme than nets you $5k a month with some real esatate you could retire soon as you are debt free, albeit the poor way, then as you age, you sell and live in style.
    Many people who have millions of dollars don't want to live like millionaires. It most certainly doesn't become a requirement to live that kind of lifestyle regardless if you have the means. $10k property taxes roughly translates to a $2MM property. People can just be happy living in $500k property and not be "living poor". Why do you have to have such an expensive property?

    Again, my analogy is based on living a bachelor lifestyle. I'm not sure if yours is the same, so I'm going to assume that $150k minimum means you talking about taking care of a family, a spouse that won't be working, etc. Also assuming that you've got your house fully paid off, $150k a year is quite excessive.

    As posted below, smartly and even conservatively investing your money in properly diversified portfolio is NOT gambling on some market irregularities or banking on some IPO going up 500% in a day. As Warren Buffet said, compound interest is the most powerful tool in accumulating wealth. If you have a portfolio returning an extremely conservative average of 5% a year over 30 years, your $2MM investment is worth almost $9MM. Raise it to a still conservative average return of 7% and you're at $15MM.

    Also as mentioned by Holden, another huge factor to the passive "retirement income" you'd have in this scenario is the taxation benefits. A properly managed / sheltered investment portfolio will produce income that is far more tax efficient than standard employment income. Considering that you can be taxed as much as ~40% on your employment income, this is significant.

    Obviously you and I are picturing the retired lifestyle quite differently but you clearly don't need $10MM to live a very comfortable lifestyle long term. If you do it right and don't blow the majority of your wealth in the first 10 years , exercise a little bit of patience and heed the caution everyone has to abide by - live within your means - you will do just fine.

    I will concur that it is quite different for people who come into big money suddenly, compared to those who are in the position to consider such a young retirement because of their current occupation (athletes, movie stars, etc). The latter is more likely to be accustomed to a higher standard of living and hence will have different considerations in mind when it comes to maintaining / improving their lifestyle in retirement.

    Also as Holden pointed out, people who just want to live the life they live currently (with perhaps a few extra reasonable luxuries) sans having to go for work, $10MM is not necessary and certainly not a minimum. Afterall, most people don't even make anywhere near that in a lifetime of work and these people still end up retiring at some point all the while paying off a mortgage for 30 years.

    My main message here is that with a reasonable sum of money ($2MM for me) , the opportunity to maintain and grow your wealth passively from the onset of an early retirement can be very simple to achieve. The rich don't get richer by dumping all their money in a chequing account and using it to fund their lifestyles. They also don't go about thinking a 2% ROI is the best they should expect.
    Last edited by Skyline_Addict; 05-20-2017 at 01:28 AM.

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    I'm not at all convinced.

    A Dover infill is $500, and 650 gets you a shack where Airdrie it Okotoks is near walking distance.

    A decent car payment and insurance on a 100k average ride? Are you gonna tell people you are retired, but drive a 15 years old car?

    No I stock market dreams. Only safe government type investments. I saw my parents portfolio​ fall in half in little over a year then take 5 years to recover.

    If I had 10 million today, I would not risk it on the market as unstable as it is today.

    And do you really want to spend 50 years in Calgary?

    What would it cost somewhere decent, like Vancouver, Toronto, San Diego, Sydney.?

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    $500k gets an older 2000sqft suburb detached home...

    Also if you don't already have a home (aka, got in when $500k got you a lot more) you are either too young to know what you're talking about, or not even close on the right path anyways to even care about this conversation

    Also, if you are cash rich, you don't finance a $100k car, you purchase it when it's 2 years old for $60k

    And insurance for a 35 year old is dollars a month difference regardless of what you drive if you have a good record

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    Originally posted by Gestalt
    I'm not at all convinced.

    A Dover infill is $500, and 650 gets you a shack where Airdrie it Okotoks is near walking distance.

    A decent car payment and insurance on a 100k average ride? Are you gonna tell people you are retired, but drive a 15 years old car?

    No I stock market dreams. Only safe government type investments. I saw my parents portfolio​ fall in half in little over a year then take 5 years to recover.

    If I had 10 million today, I would not risk it on the market as unstable as it is today.

    And do you really want to spend 50 years in Calgary?

    What would it cost somewhere decent, like Vancouver, Toronto, San Diego, Sydney.?
    Again, you look at everything as if it needs to take place in a single snap shot in time; as if you have $10MM and nothing else to your name, and now you need to go out and buy a $2MM home in pump hill and start driving multiple $100k cars. Someone who is looking to retire already has a home and already has cars and I'm willing to bet they're not "shacks" or pintos if they are in a position to even consider it.

    $500k gets you a nice suburban house in Calgary, but I never once inferred that you are stuck here. Owning a condo is probably the best option for frequent travellers as they can get up and go travel with any notice. With all the money you've saved on not living in a castle, you can buy cheap properties in dream vacation / retirement destinations like Argentina, Portugal, Spain, etc if you like to take nice long trips multiple times a year. Airbnb them when you're not there.

    We get it, you have high expectations for a retired lifestyle. Believe it or not, many people are just happy driving their 15 year old Toyota Corolla that they've had before and during their retirement. Not everyone wants to live in Springbank or Aspen and have to spend thousands of dollars in taxes and many hours of labour John Deering around their acerage. Many millionaires I know just quietly (and very happily) live their own lives and couldn't care less about showing the world their wealth.

    Also, I'm sorry to say that if your parents lost half their money in the markets, they did it wrong or followed the advice of someone incompetent. They are well below the average if they did. When I talk about a properly managed and well diversified portfolio it does not mean dumping your money in a few tech and oil and gas equities and crossing your fingers. A huge part of wealth management and growth is about taxation strategies and passive income generation using capital that otherwise sits there doing nothing, waiting to be spent. Yes, even bonds can make up some of your investments.

    Without revealing too much, I'll just say that everything I've said is speaking from experience. So I know what I'm talking about, or I simply wouldn't be in this position. My goal isn't to convince you that I'm right, but to tell people that you don't need "$10MM minimum" to retire at 35.

    PS - I don't live in Dover, but I do drive an 18 year old car... and a couple other things.

    PSS - as errchy suggested, your financial wisdom really comes into question when you talk about needing $10MM just to scrape by, but think financing a $100k car is also a sensible part of the plan.
    Last edited by Skyline_Addict; 05-20-2017 at 11:42 AM.

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    Gimme a sample 1mill portfolio. Go.
    Originally posted by rage2
    Shit, there's only 49 users here, I doubt we'll even break 100
    I am user #49

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    Originally posted by max_boost
    Gimme a sample 1mill portfolio. Go.
    $500k with a competent wealth management firm... $500k into leveraged tangible assets (turnkey businesses up to 3x, real estate up to 5x, or first up to 20x)

    Boom, done

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    Originally posted by ercchry


    $500k with a competent wealth management firm... $500k into leveraged tangible assets (turnkey businesses up to 3x, real estate up to 5x, or first up to 20x)

    Boom, done
    Here's one which doesn't include real estate or venture capital.

    1)$750k in primarily Canadian dividend funds or ETFs which are designed to provide ~5-7% dividend returns annually.

    2)$200k in foreign equity growth funds or ETFs which provide dividend payout potential and are hedged to minimize exchange rate risk. Primarily blue chip company composition.

    Move money between 1) and 2) based on market environment as required. Pay closer attention to the forex climate when considering allocation. This allows you take advantage of exchange rates which can really accelerate investment growth.

    3)Maxed out TFSA. Use this vehicle to invest in stocks and treat it as a "play money" account. Doing so allows you to keep your finger on the pulse of the financial markets, and make more informed decisions for 1) and 2). Keep a long term investment strategy even while making short term plays. TFSA is key in the long run as the contribution limit increases. Tax free money is the best kind of money.

  13. #153
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    You are preaching pipe dream investment advice from what are little more than used car salesman with 3 more than securities course. Plus, you are describing a job watching your money, not retirement.

    Financial products, all of them are designed to earn a commission and fee. For insiders to live big off outsiders.

    Anyway, yes all at once. That was the question. You need 10 million to retire happily now without hoping for 7%, without hoping to live in the nose bleeds or Dover. A nice new inner city infill is a million. Not a mansion, just nice. That can be net worth.

    True early rtirement is about freedom and choice. Not a second rate life for fifty years. There would be no other reason to retire early.
    Last edited by Gestalt; 05-20-2017 at 06:13 PM.

  14. #154
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    Originally posted by ercchry


    $500k with a competent wealth management firm... $500k into leveraged tangible assets (turnkey businesses up to 3x, real estate up to 5x, or first up to 20x)

    Boom, done
    Pipe dreams sold by used car salesman with a 3 monthe course. The stock markets have one purpose. For insiders to live big off of outsiders.

    We had two asset managers​, and finally got tired of excuses. Calgary is due for a real estate run, so we are now trying that out instead. It's proving to be a pain in the ass, but great deals to be had.

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    Originally posted by Gestalt

    Pipe dreams sold by used car salesman with a 3 monthe course. The stock markets have one purpose. For insiders to live big off of outsiders.

    We had two asset managers​, and finally got tired of excuses. Calgary is due for a real estate run, so we are now trying that out instead. It's proving to be a pain in the ass, but great deals to be had.
    The big boys know how to manage funds properly... but you need the coin, hell even $500k is pretty low for some of them. But when going fixed income you need diversification, and doing this gives you instant cash flow while the other assets are maturing

    Playing with the big boys also gives you access to private placements... which can be stupid lucrative... like 100x return if you wait out the ipo

    I do like tangible assets though, especially with limited funds since it's probably one of the most versatile leveraged things you can do with your money, lots of outs if things go sideways vs a paper asset where you have zero control

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    Originally posted by Gestalt
    You are preaching pipe dream investment advice from what are little more than used car salesman with 3 more than securities course. Plus, you are describing a job watching your money, not retirement.

    Financial products, all of them are designed to earn a commission and fee. For insiders to live big off outsiders.

    Anyway, yes all at once. That was the question. You need 10 million to retire happily now without hoping for 7%, without hoping to live in the nose bleeds or Dover. A nice new inner city infill is a million. Not a mansion, just nice. That can be net worth.

    True early rtirement is about freedom and choice. Not a second rate life for fifty years. There would be no other reason to retire early.
    Like I said, I have no interest or motive to convince you otherwise. You are going to spin my advice anyway you want, and that's fine. At the end of the day, I'm going to do things in a way that works for me, and assuming your goal is also an early retirement, you're going to do things that work for you.

    I just feel that people should know that $10MM is not required to live a comfortable early retirement. Subsequently, no one should be concerned about being able to retire period, after hearing that statement.

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    Originally posted by ercchry


    The big boys know how to manage funds properly... but you need the coin, hell even $500k is pretty low for some of them. But when going fixed income you need diversification, and doing this gives you instant cash flow while the other assets are maturing

    Playing with the big boys also gives you access to private placements... which can be stupid lucrative... like 100x return if you wait out the ipo

    I do like tangible assets though, especially with limited funds since it's probably one of the most versatile leveraged things you can do with your money, lots of outs if things go sideways vs a paper asset where you have zero control
    Straight out of the financial salesman play book.

    You are big boys dreaming. My dad played that roulette game, you know they have , pumpers, people payed and bribed with stock and options to move stock? Shenanigans. You are only fooling yourself.

    The wife and I had a good asset base because when my dad passed, we inherited his house, and both sold our places when we got married.

    I thought this was a serious discussion, not hoping on a 100x return on some insider tips.

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    Originally posted by Skyline_Addict


    Like I said, I have no interest or motive to convince you otherwise. You are going to spin my advice anyway you want, and that's fine. At the end of the day, I'm going to do things in a way that works for me, and assuming your goal is also an early retirement, you're going to do things that work for you.

    I just feel that people should know that $10MM is not required to live a comfortable early retirement. Subsequently, no one should be concerned about being able to retire period, after hearing that statement.
    I agreed with you early on, if you are debt free, and have a decent passive income, you can poor man retire quite make asily. This is our goal as well.

    Since we are dreamingI, if you truly want to retire early and completely, you need at least.$150 a year to live a semi decent.life for 50 to 55 years.

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    Originally posted by Gestalt


    Straight out of the financial salesman play book.

    You are big boys dreaming. My dad played that roulette game, you know they have , pumpers, people payed and bribed with stock and options to move stock? Shenanigans. You are only fooling yourself.

    The wife and I had a good asset base because when my dad passed, we inherited his house, and both sold our places when we got married.

    I thought this was a serious discussion, not hoping on a 100x return on some insider tips.
    Either you know the right people, or you don't... that's not my fault

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    Originally posted by ercchry


    Either you know the right people, or you don't... that's not my fault
    You are a multi millionaire because you know the right people?

    Or you watched Wolf of wall street, and know crooks exist, and trying to find them to become a millionaire?

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