Nikon 2009/2010 lineup supposedly leaked?

[quazimoto]

mleh so do all Nikon's plans change when Canon introduces a 1Ds Mark IV with a medium format sensor?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
mleh so do all Nikon's plans change when Canon introduces a 1Ds Mark IV with a medium format sensor?

Hahahahahaha, MF sensor in the 1Ds, hahahahaha

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Hahahahahaha, MF sensor in the 1Ds, hahahahaha

lol, yeah that will never happen, unless they come out with a whole new lens mount and lineup of lenses.

But wow, dual card slots on the D300s! That is the only feature I wish my D700 had besides a REAL ISO100. They really are making pro bodies in small form factors. I wish canon would follow suit. I hate the size of the 1-series.

[quazimoto]

I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

People start rumours about anything. I'd be absolutely blown away if the 1Ds mark IV (if they don't skip IV and go straight to V) has a sensor larger than 35mm format. It would be utterly stupid to do so.

[quazimoto]

Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.

As it is they'll release a new system and you'll see more people jump from nikon to canon. then a year later nikon releases new equipment and people do the dance again. Always seems to be a small number of people that do this.

I know last year the discussion was circling around a 29mp camera that was FF. There has been a lot of discussion lately though if they are eventually going to evolve into either square sensors or full medium format sensors.

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras. I'm one of these people that would be just 100% fine with another 22mp camera simply with increased performance. I don't get why they don't just concentrate on that instead of a megapixel war lol.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.

The same price? How? MF sensors are far more expensive primarily because they require far greater amounts of silicon, and that's not something that can be price-reduced. Also, you can fit fewer large, square chips on a single round silicon wafer, so again the price goes up because they have to pay for the whole wafer. And, the larger the sensor area the greater the chance of a silicon imperfection, so you need to pay more money for more silicon and then even more to make up for the bad ones. Add in that Canon would have to make a whole new lens lineup (since the only lenses they have that cover MF would be the TS ones) and there's absolutely no reason that the 1Ds IV would be MF. It's a stupid, baseless rumor and the most basic of logic wrecks it.

Originally posted by quazimoto

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras.

Yeah? Funny, Hasselblad, Phase One, and Leaf seem to be doing just fine making 30 to 50 MP medium format backs and cameras. The pros who need them buy them. The amateurs who don't need them but wish they could afford them make up rumors about Canon making a MF SLR.

[quazimoto]

This is like using the same argument people were making when pentium processors first came out saying it would be impossible to make faster processors for the forseeable future. I think in all reality the lenses they have today are really getting pushed to the limit. when we start to see nikon and canon wanting to push the 30mp barrier the current glass won't suffice.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
This is like using the same argument people were making when pentium processors first came out saying it would be impossible to make faster processors for the forseeable future.

Clearly you lack an understanding of silicon-based manufacturing processes. Processors got cheaper mainly because improvements in manu tech meant that each processor needed less silicon by being able to make smaller and smaller chips as nanometer-area accuracy improved. This reduction in silicon consumption cannot happen with camera sensors as the silicon needs to be the size of the sensor. Unless we find a magic way to make silicon far cheaper (unlikely) or discover a new non-silicon substrate (likely at some point years in the future but not in time to realease the 1DsIV, obviously), MF sensors are going to be MUCH more expensive than smaller ones. Period.

I think in all reality the lenses they have today are really getting pushed to the limit. when we start to see nikon and canon wanting to push the 30mp barrier the current glass won't suffice. [/B]

Current pro glass seems to be holding up fine on the D3X, is a 5MP increase suddenly going to render lenses useless? I doubt it. Further upon that, why do you think that would suddenly drive them to compete in the tiny MF market?

[mboldt]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

IMO that's the smallest failure of the 5D Mark II LOL

Also there isn't going to be a larger than 35mm sized sensor in a DSLR... I can't believe people are thinking that is what they are going to do

[mboldt]

Originally posted by quazimoto
Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.

As it is they'll release a new system and you'll see more people jump from nikon to canon. then a year later nikon releases new equipment and people do the dance again. Always seems to be a small number of people that do this.

I know last year the discussion was circling around a 29mp camera that was FF. There has been a lot of discussion lately though if they are eventually going to evolve into either square sensors or full medium format sensors.

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras. I'm one of these people that would be just 100% fine with another 22mp camera simply with increased performance. I don't get why they don't just concentrate on that instead of a megapixel war lol.

They aren't even going to be able to compete with the current medium format companies. Canon is already divebombing as it is. They have a hell of a lot of other improvements to make to their existing system before going into a new format. Nikon already spoke about going Medium Format and they said they'd leave it to the guys who already do it, there were the "Mx" rumors flying around early this year.

How are 35mm lenses going to react when you put them on a much larger size sensor?

Medium format cameras do not have questionable performance at all...

You my friend get a royal face palm from me

[quazimoto]

I don't know if you call it divebombing when their market shares are virtually equal and both flagship cameras have virtually the same quality.

I'd just be happy to see Nikon making their own sensors instead of letting Sony do it.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by mboldt

Also there isn't going to be a larger than 35mm sized sensor in a DSLR... I can't believe people are thinking that is what they are going to do

Now, I wouldn't quite go that far, seeing as Leica just released a larger-than-35mm DSLR, the S2. At the low, low, price of $23,000, body-only! No, >35mm DSLRs can and will happen, just not from manufacturers heavily invested (in both time and money) in the 35mm market.

[clem24]

Originally posted by mboldt
Nikon already spoke about going Medium Format and they said they'd leave it to the guys who already do it

I agree here but the only fault is that Nikon also at one point, made a similar statement regarding FF sensors...

[quazimoto]

No it will happen eventually this is only a matter of time. You make that $23,000 sound expansive. I remember when a 2 megapixel Nikon body cost $5,000.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
No it will happen eventually this is only a matter of time. You make that $23,000 sound expansive. I remember when a 2 megapixel Nikon body cost $5,000.

Only a matter of time? How much time? 10 years? 20? Unless you overcome the silicon problem, the price stays up.

[AccentAE86]

They're not gonna go MF for the foreseeable future.

I mean, back in the film days when sensor construction wasn't a cost factor at all, Canon still did not make medium format. (At least nothing that went past concept/prototype) They did not introduce a new lens lineup for larger film.

Lund makes small fishing boats.

That doesn't mean they'll start making cruiseliners because the technology to make them is available to them.

[quazimoto]

It's nothing to do with they can or will or could they. It just depends on how far the marketing hype war will go between canon and nikon as they try to fight for market share which right now is pretty much dead even. Granted when I was at the super bowl I would easily say 80% of the photographers I saw were using Canons.

I'm expecting to see the 1D Mark IV in the fall and the 1Ds Mark IV in February.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
It's nothing to do with they can or will or could they. It just depends on how far the marketing hype war will go between canon and nikon as they try to fight for market share which right now is pretty much dead even.

It has EVERYTHING to do with how feasible the camera production is. People balked at paying $8,000 for a D3X, how many people are going to actually drop $20,000+ for a camera with a larger sensor? How many new lenses would they need to make to cover that sensor? How many people would buy both the camera, and the new lenses? No camera company is going to sell its equipment at a massive loss, "marketing hype" or not. The market for sub-35mm is far larger than that of 35mm. The market for MF is fer smaller than even that. Why would two companies who have massive market shares in a large existing market spend massive amounts of money to develop new hardware for a tiny market that already has fierce competition by companies that have been doing MF forever?

[quazimoto]

Simply because they don't have to spend the massive amounts of money you speak of. With the current rate of increase in size of images within 5 years we'll be seeing 50mp cameras from nikon or canon. As I was saying they are already at the point where a lot of the glass will need to be replaced to newer versions to keep up to higher end models.

They aren't necessarily talk about medium format, there has been a lot of discussion regarding a variety of sensor sizes that could be adapted.

Personally Nikon and Canon being so close to each other in terms of market share and quality is great for DSLR owners. It pushes both companies to continually improve in order to keep that market share.