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Thread: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

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    Default Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Many people including myself, think that the carbon tax is an obvious sham to take more money from us. It will do nothing to reduce emissions in any relevant or significant manner. Especially since Canada (let alone Alberta), contributes basically nothing to global emissions. With that said, that's just the tip of the iceberg in regards to this sham.

    Do you think that the people who support a carbon tax disagree with the above? Do you think that they're even aware of that one fact?

    Do you support the carbon tax, and if so, why?

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    There is already a thread about this.

    In a nutshell. Carbon tax is good. Our implementation sucks because its more wealth re-distribution than carbon penalty.
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    I've made this opinion many times before:

    The biggest chunk of carbon tax should be something like a $10,000 tax for anyone found at-fault in a rush hour vehicle collision (notice how I don't call it accident) as they have directly attributed to hundreds of cars idling for long periods of time.

    As for the existing system, yes it's bull.

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    Every time I've heard the argument that we contribute nothing to global emissions, it's immediately pointed out that Alberta produces over 3 million barrels of oil equivalent a day. The only reason your "fact" is valid is because the oil we produce is burned elsewhere. It's like saying the only important part of a car is the left front tire and the rest can be ignored. If we ever changed the CO2 rating criteria to point of (fuel) production rather than consumption, Alberta would look like one of the worst places on the planet. You may choose to ignore that and keep your head in the turtle shell, but the rest of the world doesn't, hence why we've had to have PR campaigns for decades.

    What we have in Alberta isn't a "carbon tax", it's a PST combined with some wealth redistribution for the poorest. Do I support that? Hell no.

    What I do support is the idea of a carbon tax where the proceeds do NOT go into government coffers, but are rather redistributed to companies or universities that do research into green technologies. We've got one of the most educated populations on the planet in Calgary. I'd like to see a fund that creates a strong green economy in Alberta so that in 50 years our kids aren't like those idiot coal miners in the USA who think their jobs are coming back under Trump.

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    Originally posted by jacky4566
    There is already a thread about this.

    In a nutshell. Carbon tax is good. Our implementation sucks because its more wealth re-distribution than carbon penalty.
    There's already a thread about cars too. What's your point?

    I wanted to start a thread which specifically asks the supporters "why".

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    Originally posted by Feruk
    . If we ever changed the CO2 rating criteria to point of (fuel) production rather than consumption, Alberta would look like one of the worst places on the planet. .
    That would be stupid, because Alberta producing oil doesn't cause the emissions, and "phasing out the oil sands" would not change global oil consumption.

    So yea, everyone else does it because it places the blame on someone who can't remotely fight back, for something they aren't doing.

    Even BCs carbon tax has become a general revenue grab with NONE of the revenue neutral policy it was supposed to have.

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    Originally posted by Feruk


    What I do support is the idea of a carbon tax where the proceeds do NOT go into government coffers, but are rather redistributed to companies or universities that do research into green technologies.
    That's a noble notion, and something I could get on board with if it actually had any real benefit. But I suspect that our money will either not go toward that, or end up in the hands of green government and corporate corruption. AKA the toilet.

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    Isn't that the plan though? Nearly 1/2 the levy is supposedly (believe it when I see it) going to renewable energy projects?
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    Why not just spend the entire proceeds on electric cars for everyone?

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    Default Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by Seth1968
    Many people including myself, think that the carbon tax is an obvious sham to take more money from us. It will do nothing to reduce emissions in any relevant or significant manner. Especially since Canada (let alone Alberta), contributes basically nothing to global emissions. With that said, that's just the tip of the iceberg in regards to this sham.

    Do you think that the people who support a carbon tax disagree with the above? Do you think that they're even aware of that one fact?

    Do you support the carbon tax, and if so, why?
    this brings up an interesting question about how your mind works: if the supporters (excluding the people who drafted the legislation and/or benefit monetarily from it) know it's a sham then what would their motivations be?

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    What about vehicle emissions testing? I always thought 80% of the vehicle pollution was made by 20% of the cars or something like that - so many non-roadworthy beaters running around out there spewing giant clouds of blue smoke.

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    Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
    What about vehicle emissions testing? I always thought 80% of the vehicle pollution was made by 20% of the cars or something like that - so many non-roadworthy beaters running around out there spewing giant clouds of blue smoke.
    Seems like a different topic no? Carbon tax applies to CO2 emissions, which 100% of internal combustion cars create. Emissions testing is more for pollutants that reduce air quality. CO2 emissions are directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned.

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    Originally posted by Feruk
    If we ever changed the CO2 rating criteria to point of (fuel) production rather than consumption, Alberta would look like one of the worst places on the planet. You may choose to ignore that and keep your head in the turtle shell, but the rest of the world doesn't, hence why we've had to have PR campaigns for decades.

    What we have in Alberta isn't a "carbon tax", it's a PST combined with some wealth redistribution for the poorest. Do I support that? Hell no.
    So using your definition of the "carbon tax", similarly GST should be paid for by the provider of goods and services, not the end consumer. Of course that wouldn't change the end price of goods, but on the consumer side I would be paying the exact shelf price for all goods and services rather than having to math things.

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    Default Re: Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by Antonito
    this brings up an interesting question about how your mind works: if the supporters (excluding the people who drafted the legislation and/or benefit monetarily from it) know it's a sham then what would their motivations be?
    Note that my questions took into account the possibility that they know the tax won't affect carbon output, but may still agree with the tax for other reasons. For example, the alleged green technology funding.
    Last edited by Seth1968; 02-23-2017 at 11:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by Antonito
    this brings up an interesting question about how your mind works: if the supporters (excluding the people who drafted the legislation and/or benefit monetarily from it) know it's a sham then what would their motivations be?
    Most likely supporting due to receiving the "rebate" cheques from the government.

    I'd be that if you did a poll that asked if you received a cheque and if you supported the tax, both answers would be very closely related.

    Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
    What about vehicle emissions testing? I always thought 80% of the vehicle pollution was made by 20% of the cars or something like that - so many non-roadworthy beaters running around out there spewing giant clouds of blue smoke.
    We'll never see mechanical or emissions testing that can take cars off the road. People would see it as a war on the lower income segment of the population.
    Last edited by FraserB; 02-23-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by FraserB
    Most likely supporting due to receiving the "rebate" cheques from the government.

    I'd be that if you did a poll that asked if you received a cheque and if you supported the tax, both answers would be very closely related.
    isn't that everything?

    Do I support it: yes
    Does it benefit me: also yes

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    I suspect that the increased costs on just about everything will far exceed a rebate.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by Seth1968


    Note that my questions took into account the possibility that they know the tax won't affect carbon output, but may still agree with the tax for other reasons. For example, the alleged green technology funding.
    It wouldn't be a sham if the technology gets funded

    Originally posted by FraserB


    Most likely supporting due to receiving the "rebate" cheques from the government.

    I'd be that if you did a poll that asked if you received a cheque and if you supported the tax, both answers would be very closely related
    Till now I'd completely missed that there would be household rebates. Yeah that'd be a good motivator

    Edit: now that I've done some googling, it's not much of a rebate, but I can see a few people being in favour simply for the check
    Last edited by Antonito; 02-23-2017 at 12:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about carbon tax perceptions.

    Originally posted by Antonito

    It wouldn't be a sham if the technology gets funded

    Not by necessity. The devil is in the details.

    IMO, it will be handed out like candy with no accountability, and basically squandered.

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    What I really want to know is the cost of administration for this tax

    In other words, for every $1000 in tax that's collected, what percentage goes towards the infrastructure just to collect and redistribute the money... Is it 10%, 50%?

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