The Gun Thread

[Kloubek]

It was a valid question SJW. I just had never heard a shotgun referred to as a "pump stick" before, and was thinking you might have been suggesting something... um.. different.

Anyway, I think a shotgun is the perfect home defense weapon. 1) It's going to at least match whatever an intruder might have on him. More likely, it would give me the upper hand.
2) Should it ever need to be used, it almost guarantees a kill as opposed to an injury - which reduces the potential for a law suit.
3) Just the click-click of the pump would be enough to get most people bolting out the door.
4) As far as guns go, you don't get much cheaper than a shotgun
5) It's hard to miss with a shotgun.
6) Great for defending against bears, etc. as well while camping. (Not that I've ever been concerned, but the wife is.)

While I am ok with the concept of securing it with more than just a trigger lock, I'm not sure I'm keen in buying an actual rifle safe to store it in. What are my alternatives? (Besides buying a handgun which would fit in a small box safe). Not really interested in dealing with a restricted weapon....

Besides all this, I've always really liked guns and wouldn't mind having one for the sake of having one. I'm well over 200 pounds and my bat and I can generally handle myself in most situations. Still... having insurance (so to speak) to ensure my safety and my family's safety doesn't seem like a horrible idea.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Kloubek
While I am ok with the concept of securing it with more than just a trigger lock, I'm not sure I'm keen in buying an actual rifle safe to store it in. What are my alternatives? (Besides buying a handgun which would fit in a small box safe). Not really interested in dealing with a restricted weapon....

It's kind of a grey area. Technically you can store an unlocked unrestricted firearm behind a locked closet door that would take 1 second to break into. It just absolutely has to be somewhere with a lock on it, regardless of how good the lock is. If you don't want to do that, you need a trigger lock. What I am unsure of is if you locked the gun in your closet, if you could also store ammo in there along with the firearm. That is another grey area, as technically it is locked up with the firearm, which is allowed. Might be a good question for the CFO.

You don't need to buy a gun safe, you can just buy a cheap rifle case, lock the case, don't use a trigger lock, and you can store the ammo in the case with the shot gun. IMO that would be the easiest and cheapest solution while giving you access to both gun and ammo at the same time. All the law says is "ammunition can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm".

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


It's kind of a grey area. Technically you can store an unlocked unrestricted firearm behind a locked closet door that would take 1 second to break into. It just absolutely has to be somewhere with a lock on it, regardless of how good the lock is. If you don't want to do that, you need a trigger lock. What I am unsure of is if you locked the gun in your closet, if you could also store ammo in there along with the firearm. That is another grey area, as technically it is locked up with the firearm, which is allowed. Might be a good question for the CFO.

You don't need to buy a gun safe, you can just buy a cheap rifle case, lock the case, don't use a trigger lock, and you can store the ammo in the case with the shot gun. IMO that would be the easiest and cheapest solution while giving you access to both gun and ammo at the same time. All the law says is "ammunition can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm".

Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So, I have a question for you guys in the know...

I'm planning on getting a shotgun soon.

...If I have a shotgun available you better believe if I ever needed to use it I would want it in working order as quickly as possible, while still following the law.

Mossberg 500 J.I.C. (Just In Case)


Link to Mossberg

You can buy this kit at Wholesale Sports for $350 I think. Shotgun alone is $240. Non-Restricted.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by legendboy


Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer

Is that just your opinion or do you not think it's legal? You are allowed to store ammo with a non-restricted firearm if they are in a locked case or safe. It just can't be loaded.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by freshprince1


Link to Mossberg

You can buy this kit at Wholesale Sports for $350 I think. Shotgun alone is $240. Non-Restricted.

This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. A nice, small pump.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by legendboy


Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer

I'm all about home safety and will be buying a shotgun for the house this christmas...but just thought I'd throw out a word of caution with keeping shotgun slugs on hand for use in case of emergency.

One thing you have to remember when considering a gun for the house is that if you ever use it, you have to use the mentality that you are shooting the person and ANYTHING behind it. That being said, I would hesitate using a slug in my house because that bitch will go through several walls at least if you miss your primary target.

That's why shotguns are good for the home. Use a small shot which will incapacitate an intruder if needs be, but will not penetrate multiple walls throughout the house if deployed.

Just something to think about.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Is that just your opinion or do you not think it's legal? You are allowed to store ammo with a non-restricted firearm if they are in a locked case or safe. It just can't be loaded.

I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this

[Kloubek]

Not sure why keeping ammo elsewhere would be considered "responsible".

1) Someone breaks into your house, and manages to steal your gun. They can buy ammo anywhere, so that isn't a deterrant from the gun being used for illegal purposes
2) If you live by yourself or with a significant other, for example, there is nothing irresponsible in keeping ammo with the weapon.

If you have KIDS, keeping ammo lying around to any degree is probably not that responsible. Keeping it beside a gun is even less so.

However, in ANY case, if a gun is locked up - I will don't see what's the harm of keeping ammo with it.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by revelations


I might have missed the justification for this, why would you think this?

What would be a better defense against a deadly human threat than #4 birdshot ?

My justification is dependent on the situation. Don't think I wouldn't end a life to save my own or my family's. Whipping out a gun would just not be my first course of action.

My biggest problem with having a gun for defense is if an intruder enters my home, I honestly don't believe I could retrieve my gun, unlock it, access my ammo, load my weapon, THEN confront the intruder before he/she can get to me. In my small place, an intruder has a better chance of taking me out before I can even find my glasses to see what the hell is going on.

If I do have the chance to get to my guns on time, I will not end a life unless mine is in danger. This means that the intruder has the chance to see another day. This is more of a moral choice than anything, but I stand by it. The repercussions of utilizing a firearm in Canada are far to harsh to even pull a shotty on someone.

Another huge concern is having my gun more accessible to me would mean that it becomes more accessible for others also. If I am robbed when not at home, you better believe the shotgun beside my bed will be one of the first things to be taken. I am not one to give criminals the ability to carry firearms thus everything is hidden, locked, and not easily accessible.


Kloubek,

An alternative that I saw was a closet door (solid-core) with a combination lock installed on it. 4 numbers, then you have access to your guns and ammo without fumbling with keys or trigger locks.

If you chose to store the gun with just the trigger lock, I would suggest using a combo trigger lock. Really quick to use while still obeying the law.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz

If you chose to store the gun with just the trigger lock, I would suggest using a combo trigger lock. Really quick to use while still obeying the law.

This is another good point that I forgot to mention. To expand on the above point, you can use a combo trigger lock and just leave one of the 3 dials one number away from the correct combo so you can basically open it instantly. For example, make the combo 0-0-0 and store it set at 0-0-1 so you just need to roll the last number back once to open it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by legendboy


I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this

I don't get what is irresponsible about that, if its locked up anyways, what is the problem with storing ammo with their gun? If it was irresponsible, the incredibly strict Canadian gun laws wouldn't allow it.

From a self defense perspective, if your ammo isn't stored with the gun it will more than likely take you a long time to get it when seconds matter. From a theft perspective, if the ammo is stored away from the gun, but just in a drawer in the same room or whatever, it's only going to take a criminal a few extra seconds to find the ammo so there is no significant difference.

If you store your ammo in the attic and your gun in the basement, yes that would be safest but it basically prevents you from using the gun for self defense.

In my safety courses the Canadian laws were emphasized and thats it. They are so incredibly strict already that there is a huge emphasis on safety. There is nothing unsafe about storing ammo with gun in a locked container.

For the record I leave my firearm stored at the gun range, and keep my ammo in my closet at home, so it's not even an issue for me. I only own restricted though.

[legendboy]

Your advice of leaving the gun and ammo in a lockable gun case is bad advice imo

Just saying

[Kloubek]

Well, if I were to lock my closet, I don't think it would take much for someone to punch through it if they broke into my house. Since it would be accessible in the event of a break-in anyway, I think I would be more likely to opt for a trigger lock. That way, when my alarm goes off (it calls me) and I race home to confront the intruder, the gun doesn't have a chance of being used against me. This is, of course, if the solid core closet was not an option. And honestly, it seems to me that going to that extent adds an expense and extra work I'm not sure I'm interested in going through.

Tomaz: I 100% know what you mean about shooting an intruder. And though I wish to have a shotgun for potential home defense, actually using it would be an absolute last resort. Hell, you've met me - I think I'm a pretty nice guy.... I don't ever want to know I actually ended someone's life. But you better believe if someone advances on me with a weapon, I would have no qualms about pulling the trigger. Just being in my house is bad enough, and you're not likely to be leaving without a beat down. But threaten my life, and it's all over for you. And in that regard, I have no problems at all and can easily live with myself if I knew it was either me or him.

But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt.

[4bier]

[
But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt. [/B][/QUOTE]


the ones that call your bluff..... and most are drugged up, drunk
not usally respectfull type ....and also how do you know theres is not more than 1 if you shoot the first 1 if there are any others i think they would run

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Well, if I were to lock my closet, I don't think it would take much for someone to punch through it if they broke into my house. Since it would be accessible in the event of a break-in anyway, I think I would be more likely to opt for a trigger lock. That way, when my alarm goes off (it calls me) and I race home to confront the intruder, the gun doesn't have a chance of being used against me. This is, of course, if the solid core closet was not an option. And honestly, it seems to me that going to that extent adds an expense and extra work I'm not sure I'm interested in going through.

Tomaz: I 100% know what you mean about shooting an intruder. And though I wish to have a shotgun for potential home defense, actually using it would be an absolute last resort. Hell, you've met me - I think I'm a pretty nice guy.... I don't ever want to know I actually ended someone's life. But you better believe if someone advances on me with a weapon, I would have no qualms about pulling the trigger. Just being in my house is bad enough, and you're not likely to be leaving without a beat down. But threaten my life, and it's all over for you. And in that regard, I have no problems at all and can easily live with myself if I knew it was either me or him.

But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt.

I have a machete under my bed, that would be my go to weapon if my house alarm goes off in the middle of the night.

I do agree with the intimidation factor of hearing a pump or semi auto rack the bolt shut in complete silence.

Since having kids I keep all my guns in my safe. (use to keep a sg in my closet with a combo lock) I even keep my pellet gun locked up.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by Kloubek
...

I know you buddy, and it sounds like you live by the same code as myself.

Changing out a linen closet door is not hard, and an inexpensive way to make an easy access "gun safe". That is if you have a closet to spare.

I do suggest those combo locks. It makes life so much easier! I have forgotten my key a few times heading out to the range.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storef...prod79563.html

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by legendboy


I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this

Me, as well as several of my friends store ours with our ammo. As long as you have a decent safe, I don't really see a problem with it. Although, if I had kids I would consider a lock box inside my safe for my ammo.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Tomaz


My justification is dependent on the situation. Don't think I wouldn't end a life to save my own or my family's. Whipping out a gun would just not be my first course of action.

My biggest problem with having a gun for defense is if an intruder enters my home, I honestly don't believe I could retrieve my gun, unlock it, access my ammo, load my weapon, THEN confront the intruder before he/she can get to me. In my small place, an intruder has a better chance of taking me out before I can even find my glasses to see what the hell is going on.

If I do have the chance to get to my guns on time, I will not end a life unless mine is in danger. This means that the intruder has the chance to see another day. This is more of a moral choice than anything, but I stand by it. The repercussions of utilizing a firearm in Canada are far to harsh to even pull a shotty on someone.

Ya if you shoot someone in the back, its not going to be easy to articulate your case.

But as far as having a shotgun out because you were faced with an immanent threat - there is nothing against this AFAIK.

Most street-level cops go through a tough time when they must shoot someone - im sure most homeowners feel the same way.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Tomaz

I do suggest those combo locks. It makes life so much easier! I have forgotten my key a few times heading out to the range.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storef...prod79563.html

For $14, seems like a very logical way to increase gun safety.