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Dumbass17
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quote:

Originally posted by speedog
Yellow Pages?

How do they manage to continue to exist? I do not actually remember the last time I've used the Yellow Pages either in hard copy or online. They're a medium that's become a dinosaur and just can not compete with Google.



I was thinking this yesterday. There is a yellowpages business (well giant logo at least) on a side of a building on Barlow in the North.
People who work there must always get weird looks when friends ask who they work for.
"I used to work for blockbuster but then I made the switch to Yellowpages, gotta keep up with the future!"

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Seth1968
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quote:

IMO, YP is going down. Reason being, death of their print advertising, outrages online advertising cost (for what you get), and completely out to lunch and incompetent online advertising management. Which is probably why their agents have an outlandish turn over.

YP thought they could count on their yellow book forever, while ignoring the online trend. Now they're trying to back peddle, but it's too little too late.

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johnlennon
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quote:

I use www.rubmaps.ca when I am searching online for a.....service

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Xtrema
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quote:

Originally posted by Seth1968
IMO, YP is going down. Reason being, death of their print advertising, outrages online advertising cost (for what you get), and completely out to lunch and incompetent online advertising management. Which is probably why their agents have an outlandish turn over.

YP thought they could count on their yellow book forever, while ignoring the online trend. Now they're trying to back peddle, but it's too little too late.



YP revenue is now 71% online. They own quite a few apps and they own RedFlagDeals which is quite popular deals and advertising site.

They are trying to turn into Yelp.

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Seth1968
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quote:

Thanks again for all the replies.

Other than a social media site, the vast majority will use a Google search and check the reviews of local businesses. So, my final question is: Do you normally ignore the first few AD listings and go right to the local results?

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A790
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quote:

Originally posted by Seth1968
Thanks again for all the replies.

Other than a social media site, the vast majority will use a Google search and check the reviews of local businesses. So, my final question is: Do you normally ignore the first few AD listings and go right to the local results?


I'm really curious re: the intent of this survey since:

A) You aren't getting a realistic sample size. At least, not one large enough to provide any meaningful data.

B) Whether or not someone clicks an ad is irrelevant. With PPC ads, you don't pay unless someone clicks the ad.

The same is also true when looking at sites like Yelp, YP.ca, etc. The only metric that matters is their traffic stats. Most people don't realize or are even aware of the path they follow during search, or what site brought them to what destination.

Most people just say "Google", even if they wind up on a YP.ca property throughout the process.

__________________

Originally posted by killramos
A+ thread, who made Mar a mod?


Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
New user only have to look into my signature and read the Robin Williams thread to see that Im one of the most intellectual persons on this forum.


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Seth1968
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quote:

Originally posted by A790

I'm really curious re: the intent of this survey since:

A) You aren't getting a realistic sample size. At least, not one large enough to provide any meaningful data.

B) Whether or not someone clicks an ad is irrelevant. With PPC ads, you don't pay unless someone clicks the ad.

The same is also true when looking at sites like Yelp, YP.ca, etc. The only metric that matters is their traffic stats. Most people don't realize or are even aware of the path they follow during search, or what site brought them to what destination.

Most people just say "Google", even if they wind up on a YP.ca property throughout the process.



My intent is to determine how many Google searchers end up on Yelp or YP, as opposed to Google's local results.

I also completely understand what you mean by, "Most people just say Google, even if they wind up on a YP.ca property throughout the process." When the customer is asked if they found the business on the YP or Yelp site, they often say, "I don't know, I just Googled it"

Also A790, I'm not interested in PPC. How a business is ranked in Google's local results is mainly based on the keywords and reviews, followed by patience. With YP online advertising, reviews don't really matter. a YP position is all about how much money you'll give them. I suspect Yelp is the same way.

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Old Post 03-03-2017 03:28 PM
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A790
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quote:

Originally posted by Seth1968
Also A790, I'm not interested in PPC. How a business is ranked in Google's local results is mainly based on the keywords and reviews, followed by patience. With YP online advertising, reviews don't really matter. a YP position is all about how much money you'll give them. I suspect Yelp is the same way.


Local SEO is about more than "keywords and reviews" Reviews are a strong ranking signal, but really about 10% of the mix. That's why you often see businesses with dozens of reviews that lack prominent ranking, or why businesses with no reviews sometimes rank prominently.

Location. Location is the #1 signal for local ranking today. Where the user is in relation to the type of business they're search for.

More: http://cameronmartel.com/small-busi...nkings-anymore/

Ranking signals vary, but a good rule of thumb:

1) The website quality. This means UX, content quality, load times, and other less tangible factors.
2) Links.
3) Reviews/citations/social

RE: YP and Yelp, you're bang on there. You can buy your way to the top in YP with a GSP/SP (Guaranteed Sponsored Placement/Sponsored Placement) as well as other products that move you to the top of the results. Note: I worked for YPG from 2010 to end of 2012. I'm sure their products have changed, but I doubt their attitude has.

RE: your interest in PPC ads, consider this: Google now places ads in the local results as well, before organic listings, pushing organic SEO and traditional SEO efforts further below the fold.

I've never understood why people dismiss PPC. It's quickly becoming the de facto standard for small business. With PPC, you can nail down your cost per lead and thus gain tremendous visibility into the true cost of customer acquisition.

I'm not saying PPC is for everyone or everything, but for most small businesses, PPC is usually their most cost effective form of advertising.

__________________

Originally posted by killramos
A+ thread, who made Mar a mod?


Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
New user only have to look into my signature and read the Robin Williams thread to see that Im one of the most intellectual persons on this forum.


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Old Post 03-03-2017 04:26 PM
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Seth1968
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quote:

A790,

Site ranking is obviously the most important factor, and if the business isn't listed in the first few results on a generic search, or on the first visible page, then it's almost guaranteed they won't get the call. I think we can agree on that, but the complexity now arises if those first page listings are PPC/ADs or not. (Just to be clear, by ADs I'm referring to Google Adwords in which the site is labelled as "AD").

The big question then, is how many people ignore the AD results for whatever reason? Now if we go on the assumption that most will ignore the ADs, then how does the potential customer choose what remaining site to click on? The answer of course is mainly determined by the quality and quantity of customer stars they have. The customers line of site will directly go to the highly visible rating stars, followed by the amount of positive reviews.

RE: Business Location. That's only relevant in large cities. For example, I doubt the Google check for location has any affect on smaller cities, but possibly will for a city the size of Calgary. With that said, there's nothing a business owner can do other than move the business.

RE: Website quality, content, quality, load times, etc. I would suspect that these characteristics are typical and adequate in specific regard to customer expectation and the Google ranking.

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rx7boi
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quote:

If I'm searching for a service, I normally go with Google first.

More often than not, I'm not aware of specific sites for the services I'm looking for (e.g., car stuff, unique construction materials, etc) so I need a starting point via search engine.

I've found that the Google ads are alot of shameless plugging that aren't really specific to what I'm looking for whereas I can refine my keywords to get more accurate results.

One thing I like about Google is that it also shows me where everything is location-wise. I live far NW so I'm much more likely to go with a service in Crowfoot than driving all the way to the south for the same thing unless I'm reading stellar reviews.

Location is huge for me.

Edit: Oh yeah, I also use Beyond when researching car services. That's how I learned about Screamin Paintworks, Urban X and Carline Muffler

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Seth1968
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quote:

Originally posted by rx7boi


I've found that the Google ads are alot of shameless plugging that aren't really specific to what I'm looking for



That's it exactly, but the big question for a business then becomes, what percentage of the potential customers know this?" If that number is large, then the business owner has to question the wisdom of paying for Adwords. Now that's even further complicated as it then depends on their local results ranking and reviews

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Old Post 03-03-2017 06:09 PM
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A790
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quote:

Originally posted by Seth1968
A790,

Site ranking is obviously the most important factor, and if the business isn't listed in the first few results on a generic search, or on the first visible page, then it's almost guaranteed they won't get the call. I think we can agree on that, but the complexity now arises if those first page listings are PPC/ADs or not. (Just to be clear, by ADs I'm referring to Google Adwords in which the site is labelled as "AD".

The big question then, is how many people ignore the AD results for whatever reason? Now if we go on the assumption that most will ignore the ADs, then how does the potential customer choose what remaining site to click on? The answer of course is mainly determined by the quality and quantity of customer stars they have. The customers line of site will directly go to the highly visible rating stars, followed by the amount of positive reviews.

RE: Business Location. That's only relevant in large cities. For example, I doubt the Google check for location has any affect on smaller cities, but possibly will for a city the size of Calgary. With that said, there's nothing a business owner can do other than move the business.

RE: Website quality, content, quality, load times, etc. I would suspect that these characteristics are typical and adequate in specific regard to customer expectation and the Google ranking.


lol Seth, I'm not debating with you. I was simply pointing out how local SEO works compared to PPC advertising at this point. Your assumptions with local search are dated.

Here's something: right now, pick 3 spots in Calgary reasonably far away and do these searches:

+ Lawyers
+ Calgary lawyers
+ Pizza
+ Pizza Calgary

Take a note of the results, and specifically, how each location has a local pack (the listings in the map) and slightly different results in the organic results below the map. Then do the same experience at two points in Airdrie.

You'll notice that the local results are always location specific. We're (the SEO industry) starting to see this in small towns, too.

__________________

Originally posted by killramos
A+ thread, who made Mar a mod?


Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
New user only have to look into my signature and read the Robin Williams thread to see that Im one of the most intellectual persons on this forum.


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