Official 2012 Alberta Election Thread

[CompletelyNumb]

CTV News said 52% this morning...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by kertejud2
Quite frankly what we've seen is an acknowledgement by Albertans that they either care about being less conservative on social issues (i.e. both not electing the WRA to a minority or majority AND getting Ted Morton out) or at least care about not wanting to be perceived as socially regressive (since I'd say the vast majority of Albertans are incredibly apathetic on social matters) when the economic options are pretty well identical in the grand scheme. Plus I think as people got to know the WRA they realized that the "party of change" shouldn't just be the same kind of party that was in power ten years ago and that it was in fact the PCs who have changed, not the far right.

I think Allison stress the point of progressive in PC. That resonated and differentiated them from WRA and got the votes from the left.

As many have said, many have WRA collapse the last few days of the campaign because DS is being smug about winning and did not address the social issues of members. I have said weeks back that the morality clause will be WRA's down fall. Moral is a very loose and undefinable term. It was moral to own slaves at one point, lol.

Originally posted by speedog
Interesting to see how off the beyond poll above was as well.

Unfortunately, you can't switch after you voted on that. Which I believe many did switch back to PC.

Also, someone brought up a good point. Polling are mostly done thru landlines. Who the hell has a landline or answer them anyway? Old folks. That may be why WRA has done so well at the polls.

[pea_soup]

I don't get how anybody could possibly support Smith for Premier in the first place. I swear people don't do their research. People seem to only read into what she has to say now and not what she did over 10 years ago.

The party hoped to find a lot of desperate voters that would believe anything they were told. The reasoning for voting WR for many in the rural areas had nothing to do with the fact they liked the WR and more to do with the fact they were sick of the PC party.

This PC party right now has to be the most centered PC party we have ever had. People may not like Redford as she is a very different breed of conservative than they have been accustomed to. However she appeals to a broader demographic and because of that the WR will never get into office.

Seems nobody clued in to the fact that 95% of the support the liberals usually get went right to the PC party as all of the sudden those Liberal voters like what they see in Redford.


Seriously next time you vote for WR do some reasearch into just how good of a school board trustee Danielle Smith was let alone being the premier of our province. Now that she will serve as an MLA we can see what she has to provide albertans with. The time she spent with CBE was catastrophic.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by pea_soup

Seriously next time you vote for WR do some reasearch into just how good of a school board trustee Danielle Smith was let alone being the premier of our province. Now that she will serve as an MLA we can see what she has to provide albertans with. The time she spent with CBE was catastrophic.

Her CBE years while troubling, fit into the conservative narrative because she was pushing many fiscal conservative ideas into CBE for a more efficient school board.

While she contributed to it, she isn't the only one caused the board to be dysfunctional. Just extreme right and left clashing and nothing gets done.

[pea_soup]

Really?

She wanted to close schools and rent the space to private schools.

How is this efficient? Really if private schools could operate in the same space effectively then why can't a public school. Instead lets uproot kids and make them bus more than ever and create more stress for parents.

She intentionally would miss CBE meetings.

Problems within the CBE are the same as always. Class Size and School closures. People keep thinking the same old instead of trying to think of innovative ways of solving the problems besides simply closing schools.

Her time with the CBE was a disaster in terms of efficiency. Yes she wasn't the only one on the board causing issues but she was one of the main factors that resulted in the board being completely let go.

They are the exact opposite thing we need in Alberta. We actually need something progressive to take us forward and not keep us stuck in the stoneage like a bunch of red necks.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by pea_soup
Really?

She wanted to close schools and rent the space to private schools.

How is this efficient? Really if private schools could operate in the same space effectively then why can't a public school. Instead lets uproot kids and make them bus more than ever and create more stress for parents.

She intentionally would miss CBE meetings.

She was not perfect. She miss crucial vote meeting where she know she would be defeated and against her view. I do not respect that at all.

But her idea of closing low utilization school and rent out to private school is a good one. Because people keep demanding new schools in new suburbs. Yet old ones get more empty year by year. And the resource required to keep both open is tremendous. And the number 1 reason I heard about people moving closer to old school is that they can't afford to. Since RE in older establish areas sometimes cost more than the burbs.

When it comes to schooling, I think the current way of bending to the wills of every parent is inefficient but necessary since we have a democracy and you have to pander.

[pea_soup]

One of the problems with the CBE and it's never been proposed before but it would require drastically changing the educational system in our province and oddly enough it would address many issues.

To put this bluntly just closing schools is NOT effective.

The problem we have right now is that our k-6, 7-9, 10-12 system is highly unbalanced and not efficient. Many countries using a K-4, 5-8, 9-12 system as it puts less of a burden on lower end elementary schools as it is a lot easier to transport older children to middle schools.

The solution is not to close schools and rent them out. The solution is to close elementary schools, re-zone the land, build newer more efficient elementary schools and sell the excess land.

Take into consideration schools like Huntington Hills elementary. It's a huge space in what they would consider a rather inner city area. The space taken up by the school is absolutely HUGE.

Two blocks away you have a 7-9 junior high and 10-12 high school. If you re-work those schools into a 5-8 and 9-12 setting you can then make more efficient smaller elementary schools that will absorb less space.

A lot of the added cost of altering or building new schools can easily be offset from the value of land that can be re-zoned for residential. In the case of this specific school it would easily allow for 2 more city blocks of homes to be constructed.

It would then provide you with a new k-4 school which would be smaller and more manageable.

Rather than doing complex objectives like this though our government has always thought its best to just close it up.

The major issue we have is not high schools or junior highs but of course just how poorly run the elementary schools are. The reason for it is they are all k-6 and typically have half the number of students of a junior high school and in some cases even fewer.


This is the problem with our province though, refusal to be innovative and to do the same old conservative idea time and time again.

Which by the way, doing the same thing over and over and expecting results to differ is what einstein refers to as insanity.

[pea_soup]

Originally posted by Xtrema


She was not perfect. She miss crucial vote meeting where she know she would be defeated and against her view. I do not respect that at all.

But her idea of closing low utilization school and rent out to private school is a good one. Because people keep demanding new schools in new suburbs. Yet old ones get more empty year by year. And the resource required to keep both open is tremendous. I'm sure busing kids from old school to new is a lot cheaper busing kids from suburb to the old school.

When it comes to schooling, I think the current way of bending to the wills of every parent is inefficient but necessary since we have a democracy and you have to pander.

She actually missed quite a few votes and not just one. There were a couple board members intentionally doing this which ended up making the board highly ineffective as nobody was willing to compromise on their views.

Serious first thing any good politician needs to be able to do is compromise because 60% of the people you speak for DID NOT VOTE FOR YOU.

No party is perfect. She needs experience and time to show people in Alberta what she is capable of while in office. I think them winning nearly 20 seats was a good thing for them. The reform party started off very similar to this.

[pea_soup]

My thoughts on k-4, 5-8 and 9-12 are dead accurate though. It will take somebody with incredible will to try to put it through as it requires a level of vision we haven't seen for some time on that board.

K-6 schools are so inefficient. Asking parents to bus around 6 year old children is not a solution. We need to allow children the ability to go to school around their home. Providing K-4 schools that are smaller makes this more manageable.

Some of the land space given to these schools is simply mind boggling. In several cases they are sitting on $20,000,000 worth of unused land that could be appropriated and re-zoned. There is money and possibilities there to help make it sustainable and efficient but they need to be willing to alter our educational landscape.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by hampstor


Oh I know it happened during the last week! However to be told first "sorry, you're cut off because we need to pump money into strategic ridings so we at least hang onto something" then "oh wait, we can still give you monies" must be a bit of a piss off

I knew a week in our PC opponent (incumbant) was in poor financial shape compared to us because he ran a fundraiser 2 days into the election.

Internal party polling took place in the last week using an autodialer. All the ridings that Alison visited in her last push were those which were too close to call. Along with the visit came a cheque

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by pea_soup
To put this bluntly just closing schools is NOT effective.

The problem we have right now is that our k-6, 7-9, 10-12 system is highly unbalanced and not efficient. Many countries using a K-4, 5-8, 9-12 system as it puts less of a burden on lower end elementary schools as it is a lot easier to transport older children to middle schools.

The solution is not to close schools and rent them out. The solution is to close elementary schools, re-zone the land, build newer more efficient elementary schools and sell the excess land.

That sounds good too. But again, here's the problem.

Parents don't want to bus kids to school. They want school in their community.

This is a $424K house in Huntington Hills near an elementary school.


Meanwhile, about 10mins drive away.....

This is a $425K house in Conventry Hills which they just finished building a new school.


People say, they will not live in Huntington Hills and near a school for their kids. They rather live in Conventry Hills and bitch and yell at government to build new schools.

That is the root of the problems for our education system. Money spend on building new schools instead of into education itself.

Also, there are K-4 schools, my hood has one of them:

http://schools.cbe.ab.ca/b389/

[pea_soup]

Many parents don't want to bus your kids however many EXPECT it by junior high since that is how the system has always operated. It is a lot less expensive to operate a k-4 school then a k-6.

It would be easier to put these smaller k-4 schools in every community instead of k-6 schools. You would need fewer staff to operate the schools, have less land space to maintain etc.

The problem with the CBE is they have always looked at money in terms of:

# schools
# students
# teachers
# support staff

For whatever reason just about every single older elementary school was built on a lot of land that is intended for a senior high school.

Infills in these communities would sell for a decent amount. Some communities like forest lawn won't be as attractive of course but it helps you find revenue you didn't have before so you can properly address the issue without costing tax payers money.

Busing around kids that are 6 or 8 years old is not an effective solution. When kids are 11 or 12 years old its completely different.

[pea_soup]

Only some have K-4. They need this province wide in major municipalities for it to be effective. Granted when they put a k-4 in a newer community it makes absolutely no sense since they are going to be crammed with kids. The situation right now in Mckenzie Towne is pretty bad.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by pea_soup
Some of the land space given to these schools is simply mind boggling. In several cases they are sitting on $20,000,000 worth of unused land that could be appropriated and re-zoned. There is money and possibilities there to help make it sustainable and efficient but they need to be willing to alter our educational landscape.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that land designated as green space and cannot be utilized for building more burbs on?

Originally posted by pea_soup
Only some have K-4. They need this province wide in major municipalities for it to be effective. Granted when they put a k-4 in a newer community it makes absolutely no sense since they are going to be crammed with kids. The situation right now in Mckenzie Towne is pretty bad.

So, you're saying your idea of redo'ing the schools doesn't work?

[duaner]

Originally posted by pea_soup
I don't get how anybody could possibly support Smith for Premier in the first place. I swear people don't do their research. People seem to only read into what she has to say now and not what she did over 10 years ago.

This goes for the PC as well.

Originally posted by pea_soup
The party hoped to find a lot of desperate voters that would believe anything they were told.

Again, this goes for the PC as well.

[pea_soup]

Uhmmm ok, seriously get informed before you speak. Redford has on sketchy past to look into. Anything you are speaking of would be Stelmach and not Redford. There is a huge difference between the two parties.

As for older schools it isn't designated as green space. Most of the schools built in the 70s, 80s and even into the 90s have it zoned for schools. It would still need to be re-zoned R1 or something along those lines. I'm assuming the city would be all for it as it would help curb urban sprawl even if only slightly.

I'm saying re-doing the schools will work. It would work hugely in our advantage. More K-4 schools, less K-6 schools and compressing 5-8 and 9-12.

The amount of space they zoned for schools back in the day was actually so excessive. The fact home owners could pay for the rebuilds and not tax payers makes this all a win win.

Now try explaining it to anybody on the CBE board. I've spoken my thoughts and ideas to those who are in power and they pass on it. We need fresh people with vision and will to make change.

That alone is asking a lot.

[spikerS]

what I am trying to figure out, is how the people running in my area got my cell phone number. They ALL had it, and knew where I lived...

[duaner]

Originally posted by pea_soup
Uhmmm ok, seriously get informed before you speak. Redford has on sketchy past to look into. Anything you are speaking of would be Stelmach and not Redford. There is a huge difference between the two parties.

Ok, Mr Informed. It's the same party, there is very little difference. It started going downhill before Stelmach, went downhill faster under him and it is continuing to go downhill under Redford.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by duaner

Ok, Mr Informed. It's the same party, there is very little difference. It started going downhill before Stelmach, went downhill faster under him and it is continuing to go downhill under Redford.

They are all different in my mind:

Klein's PC - WRA with less racist and religious nuts.
Stelmach's PC - NDP
Redford's PC - Liberals.

PC is just a brand like Coke. The products has been different under different leaders.