Utility bills getting high.

[TurboMedic]

Took a look at mine now, my dec/jan was 227 for everything, my jan/feb is 300 for everything. Nat gas usage was actually down, $11 carbon tax, slightly higher electricity usage but I was using a small heater in my garage when it was super super cold to keep it a bit above freezing. Should add, 2500sqft, 2013 build...

[ExtraSlow]

Nov 22:$311
Dec 21: $327
Jan 4: $258
Jan 24: $449
Feb 21: $371

Huh, seems like an extra billing cycle in there. Oh well, Oils coming back boys. Carbon tax and double meat subs for all soon . . . . .

Agree with whomever above said that the most efficient methods of reducing consumption is to directly tax that consumption, and not the production. Hell, you wouldn't need all those fuel economy standards if you slapped a $1/L tax on the price of fuel. But I digress . . . .

[suntan]

Gas already has something like 60% taxes on it.

The problem is that gas demand is almost totally inelastic.

[ee2k]

$42.5 for my 1100sqft condo.

[Xtrema]

My Jan is horrible. Almost 1000kwh and 33GJ of gas. First $500+ bill since the insane gas run in 2007.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Xtrema
My Jan is horrible. Almost 1000kwh and 33GJ of gas. First $500+ bill since the insane gas run in 2007.

You running a mini grow op?

[suntan]

Apparently Xtrema is a lizard person.

[ZenOps]

https://www.osler.com/en/resources/r...-em-climate-le

Natural gas additional carbon levy is supposed to be $1.011 per GJ this year and $1.517 per GJ next, or $20 and $30 per tonne respectively.

It does make me wonder if electricity will be getting closer to natgas. As is now, its typically assumed that electricity is 3x more expensive than natgas for heating.

Basic assumption: Electricity at 4 cents per KWH x 277 = $11.08 per GJ to heat with electricity.

But, electricity can be convective and does not require sucking in -20 Celsius air into a 80 to 96% efficient natgas furnace.If the majority of electric heat is placed low in a basement, then it has the entire structure to heat up before its lost through the roof.

I think I will give it a shot next year.

[Darell_n]

You are confused on natural gas heaters, but please do post your findings on running up your power bill.

[ZenOps]

I'm not sure how they calculate efficiencies of furnaces.

Electrical heat generation is basically 99.9% heat.

I'm pretty sure that the efficiency is different when sucking in air on a cold day as opposed to just bumping up on a warm day from say 15 to 20 Celsius. Not sure if its a difference worth noting though, but the high efficiency furnaces basically take a buttload of outside air for the combustion, and also a little bit of fresh outside air mixed with indoor air for circulating.

Electric heating takes no outdoor air, and just bumps from 19 to 20 Celsius most of the time.

I actually prefer electric heating, no whoosh of air every hour and banging of airducts.

There is no question that an electric car plugged in overnight is vastly more efficient that gasoline vehicle per dollar though. But its still a crapshoot that the battery won't fail at low temperatures.

[Darell_n]

Natural gas burns at 1950°C. The combustion air temp is irrelevant and the fresh air being mixed in keeps your home pressurized to stop cold drafts from coming in and from the house turning into a toxic wasteland.

[ZenOps]

I'm just poorly making an argument for electrical energy generation at power plants instead of natural gas heating at the home.

Since everyone is moving to LED lighting and super efficient microwave ovens, TV's and computers anyhow.

So, put up a couple extra coal/natural gas power plants push it out as electricity with the small line losses - and then have people switch back to electricity, preferably with some sort of heat pipe system under the house instead of forced air.

For Alberta, its just a matter of *where* the carbon is burned for power. Like China, they are moving the combustion as far away from populated areas as possible but still using the power off it. German banning the combustion engine does seem reasonable.

High efficiency natgas furnaces with exhausts at knee height (toddler height) do seem like an unnecessary hazard to me, but then again cars with exhausts at that height seems like an unnecessary health hazard to me as well.

[M.alex]

if everybody thinks utility bills are high now - when natural gas and electricity are at rock bottom lows - give it a few years and see what happens

[suntan]

Yup. Although I suspect fart gas will stay low probably until I'm dead.