Alberta passenger rail MEGA thread

[Swank]

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Until we tackle public drug use and the riff rafts, we are just spending billions on mobile homeless shelters.

Did you just bring up drug use in a rail post?

[max_boost]

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Did you just bring up drug use in a rail post?

they need somewhere warm to hang out

[suntan]

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Until we tackle public drug use and the riff rafts, we are just spending billions on mobile homeless shelters.

Presumably they wouldn't use the honour system for boarding.

[Xtrema]

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Did you just bring up drug use in a rail post?

May gone off to the deep end but I don't see North American population respect public transit property enough to not make those train trips tolerable.

We are still a mostly car owning culture. Door to door Calgary to Edmonton is probably like 3hrs and a tank of gas. Train ticket may beat this for a single person but can never compete with a family of 4. And you may still need a car once you reached destination.

For trains to work, you pretty much have to make car ownership unaffordable.

[pheoxs]

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May gone off to the deep end but I don't see North American population respect public transit property enough to not make those train trips tolerable.

We are still a mostly car owning culture. Door to door Calgary to Edmonton is probably like 3hrs and a tank of gas. Train ticket may beat this for a single person but can never compete with a family of 4. And you may still need a car once you reached destination.

For trains to work, you pretty much have to make car ownership unaffordable.

Part of this plan is to link the trains so you can exit the YYC-YEG train onto either of the cities transit systems. There will always be some cases where people need their vehicles but plenty of examples of people coming down to Calgary for meetings and could be just fine staying downtown and then heading home. Or visiting family and just having them pick you up on the other end.

It'll never fully replace cars but even if 10% of the highway 2 traffic shifted over to trains that'd be a huge success. And less congestion for those that do still need to drive.

[Swank]

I was referring to rails of...a powdery drug like substance. Carry on.

[flipstah]

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Attachment 119265

[Xtrema]

That said, I think HSR from Calgary to Vancouver with stops at Banff and Kelowna may work if they charge <$200 one way end to end and get thru the distance in 4 hrs or less.

[Homerrca]

Well there are coke rails

[sexualbanana]

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Should have started taxing away the tourists back in the 80s for this.

Hasn't the provincial government been cutting o&g royalties since then?

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Part of this plan is to link the trains so you can exit the YYC-YEG train onto either of the cities transit systems. There will always be some cases where people need their vehicles but plenty of examples of people coming down to Calgary for meetings and could be just fine staying downtown and then heading home. Or visiting family and just having them pick you up on the other end.

It'll never fully replace cars but even if 10% of the highway 2 traffic shifted over to trains that'd be a huge success. And less congestion for those that do still need to drive.

As someone who had to make this drive multiple times over the last few weeks and potentially more, I wouldn't be too opposed to the idea of a high-speed rail. Of course, it likely wouldn't be built anytime in my future, but it could be pretty useful.

Ultimately, I think the biggest hurdle is it is essentially a single-use facility, and I don't think there'd be enough traffic to justify a station and any other surround amenities. If it can become a hub of high-speed rail, I could see it being pretty awesome and widely used.

[e31]

I'm already uneasy knowing that Edmontonians are 3hrs away from us, and now you want to reduce that to 1hr??? Where do I sign up to have a wall built and make them pay for it.

[ExtraSlow]

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That said, I think HSR from Calgary to Vancouver with stops at Banff and Kelowna may work if they charge <$200 one way end to end and get thru the distance in 4 hrs or less.

200 billion project.

[killramos]

High capital cost. Low projected revenue.

Whats not to like.

[Misterman]

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200 billion project.

If they can get a private corp to plan, engineer, build, operate the entire thing. Then I might be ok with public infrastructure funding it by way of a loan to be paid back with interest. If no company wants to step up to the plate with those conditions, that tells us all we need to know.

If there was high speed rail to Kelowna, I would absolutely utilize it. But no fucking way would I have the hubris to think the tax payer should fund something that benefits a tiny percentage of people that I happen to be a part of.

[tonytiger55]

I think this is a good idea.
We are way behind the times in terms of rail infrastructure.

Calgary Airport is a end point and not a transit point like Vancouver, Toronto or London. When I ran a motel in Calgary a long time ago. I noticed a lot of the people coming from the airport were just pit stopping for the night before heading out to the mountains.
This could provide a crucial link. Yes the cost is high and revenue is low. But economic benefits(revenue) to primary and secondary businesses is potentially huge.

The high speed rail to Red Deer and Edmonton is long overdue. Cut that time to a hour. There is social and economic benefits to the cities.

For trains to work, you pretty much have to make car ownership unaffordable.

Not necessarily.
Take Banff as a example. Its the convenience factor. It is a 1 hour and 30 minute drive. Add another 30minutes just getting to highway 1 from where one may live (including gas and grabbing a Sausage and Egg McMuffin. I don't lie we all do that).
If that trip is cut to 30/45mins. Add the fact that one can drink as there is no driving. Attend a conference, lunch, stag party etc. It is a attraction.
The other part is that born locals may not participate. But many people who have moved from abroad that use trains all the time, this is a huge thing. Our population is growing.

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You could spend a billion dollars building bus stations, and a billion dollars on busses, and a hundred grand a day on operating it, and you'd be money ahead compared to rail for A THOUSAND YEARS.

I defy anyone to come up with any scenario where rail makes any economic sense.

The United Kingdom and India.
Well the UK has a woeful model of how it is run. But the social and economic benefits one cannot argue with.
I got a train from London Paddington to Coventry in about a hour and 40mins. The next day I spent time with my sister and her family. We took the train to Birmingham for shopping, lunch, events. That train journey took 30minutes.
Going to a football match, jump on the train. The same scenario, attending a concert or Hocky game in Edmonton.

I got a train from Delhi India, to Ludhiana. That is a six hour train ride. I got a new super express train that took about three hours. The guy sitting next to me me lives in Delhi, but because of this new train. He is able to go see his family over the weekend. He is even considering moving some parts of this business.


There is another play here. If Alberta pulls this off. It really puts pressure on the other provinces in terms of development and growth.

[killramos]

can Banff even accommodate 5% more tourists? its already an overcrowded mess.

We are solving for a problem that doesn't need to be solved.

Maybe we should just convince people to go to Delhi instead if overcrowding and sweaty people on trains is a desirable outcome.

[flipstah]

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can Banff even accommodate 5% more tourists? its already an overcrowded mess.

We are solving for a problem that doesn't need to be solved.

Maybe we should just convince people to go to Delhi instead if overcrowding and sweaty people on trains is a desirable outcome.

If you overlook the syphillis it’d be fine

Didn’t CP or VIA Rail run through Calgary at one or another? I’m not old enough to know

Maybe @ExtraSlow would know. The rail line in downtown looked like it was a station at some point

[ExtraSlow]

There was daily passenger rail between calgary and edmonton in my lifetime. True story.


- - - Updated - - -

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The United Kingdom and India.

I meant any scenario where it made economic sense in alberta.

[tonytiger55]

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can Banff even accommodate 5% more tourists? its already an overcrowded mess.

We are solving for a problem that doesn't need to be solved.

Maybe we should just convince people to go to Delhi instead if overcrowding and sweaty people on trains is a desirable outcome.

I think your points are narrow minded.
Banff is not overcrowded. Car wise yes. Have you ever ventured to London? Thats crowded.

But Banff accommodating more is part of my point. It creates opportunity for growth/property development and more business. Not everyone goes for tourism. My apologies I forgot to add the word 'Commercial'.
People in Europe do use trains for commuting. You do know that right?

It also depends how you define a problem. A two hour drive and a sausage and egg McMuffin may not be problem for you. But not everyone wants to run to the dealership fill up their coolant before heading out on a trip. You can still drive to Banff, Edmonton etc. Just don't forget to add coolant to your SUV or better still just buy a Honda CRV.

Its nice to sit on a train with family, friends and come back the same day not exhausted. That's the difference.

As for convincing people to go to Delhi. Maybe thats not a bad idea. It will be a good education on actual multiculturalism, well run cheap train services, the commercial ventures it attracts and a strong family Unit. Its a good showcase of the trains that are airconditioned and there assigned seating. No sweaty people, no overcrowding. The trip may help address the passive aggressive racism one may have. There are places in the world that do somethings better. Its hard to comprehend, I know I know. Its also a opportunity to try a authentic Chicken Vindaloo.

I meant any scenario where it made economic sense in alberta.

I explained that in my point.
Your argument only uses the variable to calculate in terms of operating profit. My argument is to amend/expand the variables to include travel time and the economic benefit in terms of commercial, property development, banking/finance, insurance and sub commercial industries in the next ten to twenty years. We have natural resources to help fund the operating. Other countries don't have such things.
If one looks at comparable abroad, there is positive argument where it does make economic sense for Alberta.
In the UK, Coventry and Leicester have very low population bases. Yet the sub economic benefits of the rail between the two cities does make a difference. A second comparable is the Channel Tunnel between UK and France. Why build it? 36 years later getting on a train, car to Paris is normal and economically ties are better.

[bjstare]

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I think this is a good idea.
We are way behind the times in terms of rail infrastructure.

Calgary Airport is a end point and not a transit point like Vancouver, Toronto or London. When I ran a motel in Calgary a long time ago. I noticed a lot of the people coming from the airport were just pit stopping for the night before heading out to the mountains.
This could provide a crucial link. Yes the cost is high and revenue is low. But economic benefits(revenue) to primary and secondary businesses is potentially huge.

The high speed rail to Red Deer and Edmonton is long overdue. Cut that time to a hour. There is social and economic benefits to the cities.



Not necessarily.
Take Banff as a example. Its the convenience factor. It is a 1 hour and 30 minute drive. Add another 30minutes just getting to highway 1 from where one may live (including gas and grabbing a Sausage and Egg McMuffin. I don't lie we all do that).
If that trip is cut to 30/45mins. Add the fact that one can drink as there is no driving. Attend a conference, lunch, stag party etc. It is a attraction.
The other part is that born locals may not participate. But many people who have moved from abroad that use trains all the time, this is a huge thing. Our population is growing.



The United Kingdom and India.
Well the UK has a woeful model of how it is run. But the social and economic benefits one cannot argue with.
I got a train from London Paddington to Coventry in about a hour and 40mins. The next day I spent time with my sister and her family. We took the train to Birmingham for shopping, lunch, events. That train journey took 30minutes.
Going to a football match, jump on the train. The same scenario, attending a concert or Hocky game in Edmonton.

I got a train from Delhi India, to Ludhiana. That is a six hour train ride. I got a new super express train that took about three hours. The guy sitting next to me me lives in Delhi, but because of this new train. He is able to go see his family over the weekend. He is even considering moving some parts of this business.


There is another play here. If Alberta pulls this off. It really puts pressure on the other provinces in terms of development and growth.

What universe do you live in? Of course it would be convenient. Let’s put high speed rail fucking everywhere, if convenience is the only qualifier

In the paradigm I live in (reality), things cost money, so unfortunately that doesn’t work.