Disrupt: The Tesla Model S P85D Reviewed

[rage2]

It's in the archived forum posts from a couple years ago. Owners complained about the regen, and that's why Tesla added the regen modes. There were also complaints that regen is disabled in the cold, so all of a sudden backing off throttle doesn't slow you down.

The complaints have stopped because owners can turn off regen for those that don't like it, but the problem is still there in that many people can't adapt to it.

[dirtsniffer]

I missed your post about the first 20% of accelerator travel is actually regeneration. Sounds great to me. Now they just need to come out with a model that I can afford.

[Cos]

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[rage2]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
I missed your post about the first 20% of accelerator travel is actually regeneration. Sounds great to me. Now they just need to come out with a model that I can afford.

It's already out. It's called the Nissan Leaf.

Originally posted by Cos
Does it still do this or does it give you a warning? This one would be a bit freaky.

That I'm not sure about. I haven't heard much recently about it, but not sure if people just got used to it or if it's fixed. With Tesla, it's really tough to track what issues are severe, as Tesla owners understand that it's a new product and hence are much more forgiving than owners of traditional brands.

[B18C]

Originally posted by Cos


Does it still do this or does it give you a warning? This one would be a bit freaky.

From what I understand this does occur. I can tell you for sure that regen braking is lessened (or completely disabled) if you battery is fully charged. It is a bit weird to suddenly have the car not behave like it normally does. It's only happened to me the couple times I fully charged my battery. It's pretty easy to get used to though. I think it's a pretty minor complaint.

In the winter, with slippery roads it might be a different story. I'll report back in a couple months!

[KRyn]

Originally posted by rage2
"Even with this disadvantage, the P85D is still faster than most cars from a rolling race as throttle response is instantaneous. There is no wait to downshift, delays from opening the throttle body, or turbos spooling up, it just accelerates immediately.

You just have to make sure you are racing the P85D from a roll.



Cool review, I want to drive one of these someday. I don't think launching it would ever get old and it wouldn't attract any attention at a red light.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by B18C


From what I understand this does occur. I can tell you for sure that regen braking is lessened (or completely disabled) if you battery is fully charged. It is a bit weird to suddenly have the car not behave like it normally does. It's only happened to me the couple times I fully charged my battery. It's pretty easy to get used to though. I think it's a pretty minor complaint.

In the winter, with slippery roads it might be a different story. I'll report back in a couple months!

One of the Beyonder P85D owners here. In my car, since day 1thru the various software updates, there has only been two regen settings: low and normal. No way to turn it off (except maybe the crude hack of putting it in neutral as suggested above, so not by design yet).

I have no problem with the normal regen setting per se, and I am getting used to it, and the wife loves it. She never touches the brakes and I'm not always cleaning brake dust off the rims.

But here the two problems that I hadn't mentioned in the "P85D Driving Experiences" thread (which I probably should and could have mentioned by now), the regen braking could be a big problem in the winter, ice, glazed intersection, etc. And if you start coasting (braking) to a stop before everyone else does, so you throw their pace off when approaching a red light.

IMO, as 90% of the drivers on the road approach a red light, they brake late, and hard, relative to the Tesla. Don't argue too much about the number, it's ballpark-ish. Most drivers see the red light, let up and coast, and then brake as the get near to the red light and stopped traffic. As soon as you let up to coast in the Tesla, it will start to brake, depending on how far up you lift your foot off the accelerator. In normal ICE driving, I let my foot completely off the gas, and prepare to hit the brakes, a ways back from the red light. Lifting off at the same time in the Tesla will start the braking too early for the traffic flow (even worse than say a guy w a manual tranny who is coasting to a stop as he tries to time the green light with some forward momentum still). As Rage alluded to, there is a point where you can modulate between throttle and braking, all with the right pedal, but imo it's a fine line to hit. And it draws your eyes away from the approaching stopped traffic, as you tend to be looking at the energy consumption bar to see if its green (regen), or orange (power on). So even after 6500km, I don't know the sweet spot perfectly, and look down too often when trying to nail that sweet spot, which is unsafe. So I don't try to do it very often.

But to me, the worst part isn't that we "over brake" and affect the flow of traffic a slight bit, it's that our brake lights come on at any time we are above, say 10kW of braking, which is a very very small amount of braking. So I look like I'm an idiot driving the car, and driving everyone else behind me nuts, cause every time I lift throttle, my brake lights come on. Drive behind a Tesla (been there with the wife), and you will see what I mean, it's annoying to me, and I figure it must be annoying to others. Lets say I was driving at 110kph, pass a bunch of traffic, then decide that I will coast to slow back to a reasonable speed...my brakes come on....some of the drivers might get a bit pi$$ed that I did that, right after I got in front of them...so there's that. BUUTTT and its WAAAYYY worse: last week, I used the P85D power while driving on Deerfoot, and pulled around a slow moving truck in the fast lane. There was someone in the middle lane, so I gave it throttle to get back into the fast lane, but of course the turbo diesel I was passing floors it with his chipped truck, and now the gap is closing. I have the space and time to get back in, and start to pull back into the fast lane in front of him, and let up a bit on the gas as I don't need to be going that fast anymore...Holy carp, BAD IDEA. Now I am showing him my taillights and freaking him out as I turn back into the fast lane. I know I've ticked him off cause he's riding my bumper now (well I knew I was ticking him off when I went to pass, as I chose not to let him regulate the speed of traffic that day). But it's a total douche move imo to pull in front AND then brake - it leads to even more road rage out there. I wasn't actually braking per se, it was maybe 10kW, but that is enough to turn on the brake light, probably req'd per DOT rules, so I can 't see Tesla allowing us to detune the brake light sensitivity (maybe if it was VW/Audi I'd be able to get a short cut to bypass this - if your reading this a few months out in 2016, think back to the 2.0T diesel NOx issues). And yes, this was a "maneuver" I pulled, but no flames about the example I gave, it also applies to a much more benign situation, such as when passing on a undivided highway and then cutting back in and showing them your taillights...

This is a significant problem in my mind...it's not just that going down a hill I am constantly showing brake lights (sometimes intermittent on and off too), nor is it even that on a regular passing move on say a undivided highway, I get in front, and then will show the guy brake light (I coast back down to cruising speed in an ICE car), it's that on a more aggressive pass where you do have to cut back in fast, be it on a undivided highway, or say driving Deerfoot, you are going to be showing them tailights right as you cut in, if it's a tight gap. Unsafe, could freak out people. If I'm slowing down from passing doing 130 down to 110kph, I would be doing it coasting, esp if I was pulling back in. So there are rare times where it can be unsafe to have regen braking as it lights up the brake lights, when you don't want to actually be seen as braking.

The other time is of course on ice. I can modulate with my right foot the second pedal (brake) better that I can modulate the throttle with my right foot. This is why I've been saying it is going to take a lot of parking lot testing before I feel like I can drive the Tesla at it limits in the winter. And I actually don't see me being able to do it well in the Tesla, and I do "think" I have pretty good control over my feet from years of solo racing. Maybe it be retraining those now virtually autonomous neural pathway I've built after years of using the brake pedal, but I also think its going t be tougher, as the Tesla throttle/brake balance position is going to require dancing a fine line. It's cause I dont think its the same point all the time. Going down a hill, needs one throttle position for a neutral coast, going down a lesser hill, less throttle, up a hill, slowing from 140kph wind resistance vs slowing from 50kph in the city (and think headwind, I don't drive 140kph). Each one needs a different throttle position to not be braking and not turn on the brake lights, and unlike other stuff I got used to in the EV quickly, this one is taking some time. On sheer ice I want a slow lift off the throttle to coast, then braking, possibly hard, if the car is still travelling the direction the wheels are pointed and hence I can use the ABS effectively. This imo, is going to be much harder to modulate in the Tesla. And that's for me. My wife, on ice always lifts waaaay too fast off the throttle and has put us out of control just from letting up off the gas. When she does this in the Tesla, we are going to be doing donuts (5000# of inertia), as it will immediately put 60kW or more of braking into the mix. As an FYI, 60kW is a good amount of braking force...like 1/4 to 1/3 of normal pedal force/distance compared to the force required for max lockup. That's waaay to much for braking on ice in some situations, yet in a panic lift, this is what will happen. And the car will be sideways. I was going to wait till I tested out the "low" regen braking in the winter in an empty parking lot, but I am pretty sure Tesla is going to want to hear about this wrt their uber safe car, and they chance that they will have to introduce a "no regen" braking choice if enough of us ask (I hope). But I've got to wait till the winter to ascertain how important this will be to fix, and how large a problem it is. I am sure other Tesla owners have mentioned this to them in the past, so I may be one more voice in a sea of compliance, but I certainly am not going to not talk to them in case it is a problem for me or my wife. If it's a problem for us, it's a problem for others in Northern climates, and hence the car isn't "as safe" as I'm sure they want it to be. That should be the impetus for them to change it...even if it gives up that all important winter driving range; imo they need to offer a zero regen mode if the weather is below say 2C and ice may be on the road. It's just prudent.

[rage2]

The big question will be if the ABS and ESP systems account for regen braking wheel slip, and adjust accordingly for that to ensure full traction under "braking". I don't see why it wouldn't, but it'll be curious to know how they implemented it.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Cos
Good article. I assume this was one of the two 'beyond' Tesla's?

Mine.... Eventually.

Originally posted by rage2

Yea, my gf loved that setup. In fact, she loved the Tesla after seeing it in person and loved it. At least, until she spec'd it out on the website.

If the P85D was a $100k car, we'd probably get one for her as a year round DD. At this stage, we're probably going to look for a used one to see how prices look in 2.5 years.

Hands off, fucker!


haha

[rage2]

I worded that wrong. We're going to look for a used one in 2.5 years. Not getting one anytime soon.

[Cos]

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[01RedDX]

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[Maxt]

Forgive me, I know nothing about the Tesla, but is the regen braking on all wheels, the front or the rear with a bias? I was thinking about the Ice road situation when reading Rage's article, for me I like to use the tow haul mode in my pickups to use rear tire braking on ice, it keeps the trucks straight over using the brakes which tend to be front biased in a pickup truck.. If it starts regen braking on ice on the front end, it could be a scary car to drive in winter.
Also instantaneous torque and traction control on ice, how good does it all blend together to get the car moving? I guess it depends on how good the power modulation is the go pedal. I've heard of people not being happy with the performance of hybrids in winter, full on EV the same ?

[rage2]

I wanted to get some feedback from one of the owners this year but there was no snow at all.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
German girl in first ever attempt to fly a model S. Result: flew 82 feet and rolled at least once, all 5 passengers survive.

http://bgr.com/2016/05/08/tesla-model-s-accident/

Faired better than AmericanM5 from M5board...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4198416&page=1

[rage2]

There's a big difference in flying in the air and landing in an empty dirt field vs flying in the air and smacking a tree.

[01RedDX]

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[rage2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
I mostly wanted to share an example of how well Tesla's cabin and crumple zones work in a serious crash.

Tesla's have the best safety rating ever tested for a reason.