Builder wont let me do my own wiring

[R!zz0]

So we built a home and the builder is not letting me or my good friend who is an electrician by trade or anyone else come and do the wiring for my sound system. They want me to deal with data 4. Don't want to deal with data 4 for 2 reasons. (1) they're charging me $4000 to do the wiring. (2) When we talked to the lady, she didn't really have the knowledge and was telling us to go with her ideas. When i asked her about getting sound from my tv to my ceiling speakers, she said "It can't be done"

Anyway, any advice on what i can do to bring the company that i like to do all my home theater/ceiling speakers wiring?

NuVista said it's either data4 or do it after when the home is built.

[cet]

Unless you find a company who is currently working, or has previously worked, with them I think it's going to be really difficult to get them to agree to let you use your own company. Home builders have really cracked down on who they let in to do work on the property due to things like warranty and damage during construction.

I went through the same thing when I built my place last year and ended up paying $5000 for speaker wire and extra CAT6 to be run. I went to the AV guys they sent me to with a diagram of exactly what I wanted and where it was going. Even then, I had to check multiple times that things were run where I wanted. I had to get a few things moved and ended up going in myself one night to move a couple of speakers to where I wanted them.

[Rarasaurus]

Leave a basement window unlocked so you can sneak in whenever you want.. After they pass electrical inspection and right before they do insulation go in and put in the speaker wire or other low voltage. It does not need inspection as it low voltage. Hope that home builder does not see it before drywall goes up.

6 years ago our home builder let us in to do it but only gave us 1 day between trades. AV companies charge a lot. They wanted 2400 for 5 speakers. We did 9 for about 600 in materials and 8 hours of labour.

[suntan]

Make sure the wire isn't fire rated, wouldn't want your insurance to fuck you over eventually.

[roopi]

You needed to negotiate this in before you signed anything. Now you have to pay their price.

My only suggestion is to pay to have conduit out in wherever you want the wire. It will be a cheaper solution but I don't know how much it would really save you.

[TurboMedic]

Had the same problem with Shane (they use Visions). Charged a ridiculous amount for the low voltage wiring, were not overly flexible. I also wanted to come in and place sound proof insulation around the master bedroom, they wouldn't allow that either. I was told I could maybe sneak in and do it, but the risk is there that it would be removed by later contractors. It was simply I did not want to pay what they wanted to charge for sound proofing, it was exhorbitant.

[R!zz0]

The only choice i have is to wait till the house is done. Which will be pricey and the work won't be the same.

[mr2mike]

+1 Run conduit. Can always upgrade wires then when technology changes.

[roopi]

Originally posted by R!zz0
The only choice i have is to wait till the house is done. Which will be pricey and the work won't be the same.

They won't let you add conduit at this point? That seems odd. Most builders are accommodating.

[R!zz0]

Originally posted by roopi


They won't let you add conduit at this point? That seems odd. Most builders are accommodating.

I haven't asked about that, but i will when i see them on Thursday.

[FraserB]

Can you make the final installation subject to your inspection and approval prior to closing the walls?

That way you can give them a very specific scope and make sure it is done correctly before the walls are closed up. You'll wind up paying their price, but the work should be done correctly.

Or you could set up a meeting with the builder, their sub and yourself/your contractor an show exactly how incompetent they are. If you can show the builder their sub doesn't know what they are talking about, it might help a bit.

[revelations]

Originally posted by mr2mike
+1 Run conduit. Can always upgrade wires then when technology changes.

Thats a great idea....

[cream]

Has Anyone here dealt with SmartSpace?

I've already passed the negotiating part but everyone seems reluctant to give me a 'price range' for everything (such as built-in speakers) until the appointment day comes along.

And I'm worried about how much Cat6 is going to cost

[wtf im nameless]

It's normal for high volume builders to have a predetermined list of trades and not allow anyone else to work on their homes. That includes the buyer.

All I really work on is full systems in custom homes, but I would imagine depending on size, a typical home would be 1-3 days of labor for a 2 man crew and anywhere from $1-3 thousand for wires and misc installation parts. That would include at minimum basic phones, network, and TV. And optionally adding distributed audio, surround sound zones, security, cameras, one or more WAP locations, hiding local audio/video sources in the room, moving audio/video sources downstairs, motorized window treatment, etc.

I've never heard of any horror stories with Data4 or Smartspace. I wouldn't recommend using an electrician to run your low voltage. I always see cables bent too sharply, being held in place with electrical staples hammered down hard enough to break the cable jacket, low voltage cables being yanked way too hard, etc. I'm sure there are some that are capable of doing both, but from what I've seen I'd have to say the majority of the time you do not want an electrician running your low voltage. I have no comment on Visions.

Cat6 retails for $200 for a 1000 foot box, it's not that much more than cat5e.

Run 16/4 or 14/4 speaker wire, even for surround sound zones, then you have bi-wire capabilities or can combine the wires if not.

If you absolutely have to mount a TV over a fireplace, make sure you have a properly vented place to keep the sources. Run a couple extra cat6 wires between the sources and TV so you can optionally use a IR repeater kit if you don't have an automation system.

The in ceiling speakers I sell range from $500/pair to $2000/pair. If you get in ceiling speakers make sure they have an enclosed box so less sound leaks into nearby rooms.

[cet]

Originally posted by cream
Has Anyone here dealt with SmartSpace?

I had them take care of my alarm system install. I will have them back to take care of the alarm to the garage when I get it finished and also to do some Control4 stuff in the summer.

[03ozwhip]

I used data 4 for my house. I didn't run any conduit, but had all my ceiling and wall speakers roughed in (5+1) and they just left it open for me to install the rest myself while it was built but that was the easy part.

this cost me about 600 I think, plus they ended up installing my speakers or free. you must be running a shit ton to be charged 4k.

however, this was negotiated prior to signing as I knew I was going to do it. good luck man, you don't have much option other than the conduit at this point in the game.

[R!zz0]

the area manager is fighting for me to bring my own guy. He told me to give him some time and he is confident that he'll win them over. If not, than i don't have a choice but to go with data 4.

$4000 is costing me just to wire 12 speakers throughout the house. I'll have to buy my own speakers.

3 in the great room/kitchen.
2 in the upstairs bonus room.
1 in the master bedroom.
1 in the master ensuite

In the basement i'm thinking going with 5.1 for my home theater. So i'll need 5 speakers there. I'd love to go with a 7.2 in the basement, but if they let my guy in, than i'll go for 7.2

[ZenOps]

Yup, just make sure you run FT2 or FT4 and you should be ok for fire. Many standard Ethernet cables are not fire rated for inwall installation, spend the extra few bucks here.

If your house burns down and the insurance people find a non-rated wire inwall, you might be out of luck for coverage.

[R!zz0]

^Thanks man, i had no idea about the FT2 and FT4

[blindsight]

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