PDA

View Full Version : SR20 or CA18



mshaw
09-09-2005, 04:41 PM
Im just curious, i have seen quite a few people write that a CA18 is better than a SR20, i would have thought a SR20 would be just cause stock it has more horsepower. Just wondering why people say different or is it just personal opinion

crazydave
09-09-2005, 05:10 PM
i say more personal. the sr block is aluminium so some say that is not good enough and the ca is a stonger block(it could be,not saying its not) the sr has mroe aftermarket support cuz its a newer motor and offered in more than one year frame. sr is more expensive but is it worth the money. it just comes down to which you like more, and the condition of both motors you are looking at. a ca can esaily be better if it has better condition than a bad condition sr and vise versa. personal opinion man.

Lo)2enz0
09-09-2005, 05:11 PM
It is mostly personal opinion. I love the ca18det, like you can feel when boost kicks in in those engines, compared to the sr20 where you know when it comes in but its alot smoother.

here are some ca18det facts:

Displacement - 1809cc
Bore - 83mm
Stroke - 83.6mm
Compression -8.5:1(DET)
Horsepower - 175 HP @6400RPM(DET)
Torque - 166 ft/lbs @4000(DET)
Tune up stats;
Timing marks -The six marks on the crank pulley read clockwise are -5, 0, 5, 10, 15 and 20 degrees respectively.
Timing - 15*BTDC(DE(T))
Idle speed - This is set via a valve solenoid on the intake manifold. In the center of the plenum aiming to the front is a valve with a gold cylinder with a plug on it. Unplug it and adjust the idle speed with the 10mm bolt on the back of the valve then plug it back in.
Idle speed - 750RPM(DET)
Fuel Injector - Top feed, 370cc
Oil filter - Fram 3682, 3614 or equivalent (4qts with these)
Stock Cam Specs- CA18DET
--------------------
Type - Lash
Cam Duration(IN) - 240°
Cam Duration(EX) - 248°
Cam lift IN(mm) - 7.80
Cam lift EX(mm) - 8.50
Lobe center angle (IN) - 120°
Lobe center angle (EX) - 120°


some sr20det info

Displacement: 1998cc (2.0 liter)

Cam type: DOHC 16 valve, chain driven cam sprockets

Bore and stroke: 86mm x 86mm

Compression: 8.5 : 1

Horsepower: 205ps at 6000rpm Torque: 203 ft/lbs at 4000rpm

Stock boost: 7 psi

Throttle body bore: 60mm

Turbo specs: Injector size: 370cc/min

Compressor: T-25, 60 trim 56mm BCI-1 compressor.

Turbine: T-25, 62 trim 53.8mm 0.64 A/R turbine housing.

Center Section: Journal bearings

Performance:

The stock turbo will be safe to 13-15 psi. After that, the turbo is past its efficiency range, and power increases will fall off and are not worth the risk of turbo damage. The engine should produce 230-250 RWHP at safe boost.


To be honest both engines are great but from what I have read, ca18's can take a beating and a half. from my experience, they can take only so much before something goes wrong. I am looking into giving an sr20 a go in my car so i won't know the difference until after that.

Lo)2enz0
09-09-2005, 05:13 PM
also, the ca18det was discontinued because it was an engine that was to expencive to produce, for the power that they were getting out of it. Thats where the sr20 came in.

mdeleon
09-09-2005, 08:32 PM
sorry to jack your thread but what about between the SR20 & RB20? i heard the rb was better, more low end torque

finboy
09-09-2005, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by mdeleon
sorry to jack your thread but what about between the SR20 & RB20? i heard the rb was better, more low end torque

rb = inline 6 (2.0L) based off the ca18
sr = 2.0L 4

calgarys13
09-09-2005, 10:37 PM
aluminum is for pop cans not blocks..and laurier if you get a sr i will hafta make fun of you even more than i already do...seriously though i love the power of a ca over and sr..sr is more refined and feels like more of a commuter car boring engine, when a ca hits boost you feel it and the car is alot more fun..just my 0.02

dymz999
09-10-2005, 08:28 AM
LOL only haters without SR20 engines would say something like that. Aluminum block being bad? well uhmmm i hate to burst your bubble but those aluminum blocks have been supporting cars in japan that have in excess of 800whp, i've never heard such a thing from a CA18. SR20 blocks also have Forged Steel cylinder ducts which by the way is actually stronger than the iron ducts used in the iron CA18 block. but not to get technical or anything. Also people tend to think aluminum will break easier blah blah blah. well if you get rod knock and a rod wants to break loose its not going to matter if your block is made out of aluminum, iron or stainless steel its going to go through th block. The only negative aspect of an aluminum block is if the tuning is done poorly and you have detonation the effects can be nasty. Then again that iron block is also why a CA18 is about 50% more likely to have headgasket issues. but none the less the block being aluminum is not an issue until you start passing 600whp mark in an SR which is when you need to get aftermarket sleeves.

If that CA18 engine were so "great" you'd see companies in japan like signal auto and jun sticking a CA18's inside their Skylines and Z cars instead of that SR20 engine. The reason, they are easier to tune and make power with. Not to start a war but the SR is one hell of an engine, its not perfect but it is a great engine. The ca18 is a good engine, but will always be the SR's little brother.

Oh by the way, you also feel the boost kick in on an SR. Well you need to be in one that is hitting 20 psi. The power is amazing.

I think porsche engines, well some of them the blocks are 100% aluminum, and some of those stupid things make insane power. nothing wrong with aluminum so long as the tuning is on.

There are also companies in japan that sell aftermarket steel SR20 blocks, so if you wanna talk indestructable lol. Both have positives and negatives. the block doesn't matter one cent when deciding between the two engines.

Thing what you would rather have. A great aftermarket support or the ability to buy cheap replacement parts? If you get the ca18 you get cheaper replacement parts as the parts come in the CA18DE but the SR has kick ass aftermarket support which will allow you to do some good things...

Boost Infested
09-10-2005, 10:01 AM
^^ from a guy that said rb's are better than sr's cause he couldnt find a sensor problem lol. now sr's are the best............ oh my.

ca, sr, rb oh and ka all are great engines just the matter of finding parts for them or how mechanically inclined you are :angel: :thumbsup: if you cant find parts make them, i like custom made stuff myself.

Its the attitude of sr owners that made us the haters... :drama:

dymz999
09-10-2005, 10:18 AM
Not haters but man oh man some are better than others. RB engines are not all the jazz either. I still dont get why the hell they made a 2.0 litre 6 cylinder engine. It is literally baffling. I sit here thinking about how in the same year they had a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engine. I'm a fan of the RB25/RB26 engines as they can compete on par with a 2JZ. What the block is made of doesn't really matter until upper levels. And for the record, all these engines are in my opinion inferior to the FJ20 engine. If you really wanna be the pimp try getting an FJ20DET.

It is likely the stupidestly strongest 4 cylinder engines ever constructed. Nissans F1 mistake...

Boost Infested
09-10-2005, 10:57 AM
http://members.shaw.ca/Boost-a/kekeke.gif

chris
09-10-2005, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Boost Infested

Its the attitude of sr owners that made us the haters... :drama:
maybe just one of them:angel:

Lo)2enz0
09-10-2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by dymz999
LOL only haters without SR20 engines would say something like that. Aluminum block being bad? well uhmmm i hate to burst your bubble but those aluminum blocks have been supporting cars in japan that have in excess of 800whp, i've never heard such a thing from a CA18. SR20 blocks also have Forged Steel cylinder ducts which by the way is actually stronger than the iron ducts used in the iron CA18 block. but not to get technical or anything. Also people tend to think aluminum will break easier blah blah blah. well if you get rod knock and a rod wants to break loose its not going to matter if your block is made out of aluminum, iron or stainless steel its going to go through th block. The only negative aspect of an aluminum block is if the tuning is done poorly and you have detonation the effects can be nasty. Then again that iron block is also why a CA18 is about 50% more likely to have headgasket issues. but none the less the block being aluminum is not an issue until you start passing 600whp mark in an SR which is when you need to get aftermarket sleeves.

If that CA18 engine were so "great" you'd see companies in japan like signal auto and jun sticking a CA18's inside their Skylines and Z cars instead of that SR20 engine. The reason, they are easier to tune and make power with. Not to start a war but the SR is one hell of an engine, its not perfect but it is a great engine. The ca18 is a good engine, but will always be the SR's little brother.

Oh by the way, you also feel the boost kick in on an SR. Well you need to be in one that is hitting 20 psi. The power is amazing.

I think porsche engines, well some of them the blocks are 100% aluminum, and some of those stupid things make insane power. nothing wrong with aluminum so long as the tuning is on.

There are also companies in japan that sell aftermarket steel SR20 blocks, so if you wanna talk indestructable lol. Both have positives and negatives. the block doesn't matter one cent when deciding between the two engines.

Thing what you would rather have. A great aftermarket support or the ability to buy cheap replacement parts? If you get the ca18 you get cheaper replacement parts as the parts come in the CA18DE but the SR has kick ass aftermarket support which will allow you to do some good things...


Alright that is TRUE hate right there. The ca18det is a great engine and why do sr20 owners (some not all) put them down all the time. There is alot of support for the ca18det, when you start to look into it more and more it has just the same amount of good stuff (ie- greddy/trust, hks, tomei) and alot less pos american aftermarket crap. The one upside to the sr20 and its aftermarket support is that its alot cheaper because the products are supplied by hks usa or what ever. with the ca18det you need to get everything from japan.

The ca18 is a great engine and in my opinion my favorite. I do like the sr20 and the main reason I would put one in my car is for resale value because no one respects the ca18det over here because "it was only produced for 2 years, that makes it a piece of shit engine" but no. As I stated above the ca18det was discontinued because of the cost of production of the engine and they weren't making enough pony's out of it so the decided to look in other directions and how they could produce and engine for less and that will make more pony's. This is where the sr20 cam in. And if you didn't realize the ca18det design did continue.






Originally posted by Boost Infested
^^ from a guy that said rb's are better than sr's cause he couldnt find a sensor problem lol. now sr's are the best............ oh my.

ca, sr, rb oh and ka all are great engines just the matter of finding parts for them or how mechanically inclined you are :angel: :thumbsup: if you cant find parts make them, i like custom made stuff myself.

Its the attitude of sr owners that made us the haters... :drama:

ha ha ha thats sig material right there. But its true, they do put down almost every engine besides the sr20. Go into any forum and bring up a ca18 and they will ignore you cause "your not good enough"



Originally posted by dymz999
I'm a fan of the RB25/RB26 engines


http://www.hjo3.net/orly/gal1/orly_owl.jpg

ever wonder where the design to the Rb series engine came from....

last time I checked they were based on the ca18det, umm says a little something about how the ca has influenced the nissan engine production...

braden883314
09-10-2005, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by calgarys13
aluminum is for pop cans not blocks..and laurier if you get a sr i will hafta make fun of you even more than i already do...seriously though i love the power of a ca over and sr..sr is more refined and feels like more of a commuter car boring engine, when a ca hits boost you feel it and the car is alot more fun..just my 0.02



Originally posted by dymz999
Not haters but man oh man some are better than others. RB engines are not all the jazz either. I still dont get why the hell they made a 2.0 litre 6 cylinder engine. It is literally baffling. I sit here thinking about how in the same year they had a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engine. I'm a fan of the RB25/RB26 engines as they can compete on par with a 2JZ. What the block is made of doesn't really matter until upper levels. And for the record, all these engines are in my opinion inferior to the FJ20 engine. If you really wanna be the pimp try getting an FJ20DET.

It is likely the stupidestly strongest 4 cylinder engines ever constructed. Nissans F1 mistake...


Which is exactly what calgarys13 has!! :bigpimp:

And i really dont understand why the big fight, all of the engines in question are good, it all comes down to personal opinion, and this topic has been brought up several times on any forum that has S13's in it. And the FJ is amazing, Iron block and Head!

Mark u got a amazing car, SR swapped into a Q's, I think it will become a very popular thing for CA owner so your a step ahead in alot of peoples opinions.

Ps. I believe they used a Q's tranny in your car, making the gears long, if u want to feel a difference, do a tranny swap over the winter.

~Braden

Sorath
09-10-2005, 12:49 PM
ca for life <3

dymz999
09-10-2005, 07:17 PM
No hate towards it, right now there is not exactly huge choice when importing a silvia, most come with the CA18. The RB25/RB26 Design did not come from the CA18 for the record though. The engines were designed from the RB20 series from the early to mid 80's.

I do scratch my head with this one fellow in quebec who stroked his CA18 to a CA20, kinda wierd lol.

chris
09-10-2005, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by dymz999
No hate towards it, right now there is not exactly huge choice when importing a silvia, most come with the CA18. The RB25/RB26 Design did not come from the CA18 for the record though. The engines were designed from the RB20 series from the early to mid 80's.

I do scratch my head with this one fellow in quebec who stroked his CA18 to a CA20, kinda wierd lol.
why?? are you on crack???thats fucking sweet. I wish i could pick up the tomei ca20 kit, too bad you cant buy it in canada and it's like 10,000 bucks. That would be like saying hey why would any one want to stroke out their sr when they can buy a ka.

trikypenguin
09-10-2005, 07:53 PM
sr20det allllllll the way, though the ca18det is a good engine, sr all the way :D

Inthered
09-10-2005, 08:43 PM
Braden, the FJ was iron block and aluminum head.

I don't know why there's some much hate for an "overdesigned" CA engine. SR20 hype is clouding people's minds. Oh no, what have I done?:rolleyes:

dymz999
09-10-2005, 08:53 PM
Yeah anything stroked is cool in my opinion. However the lord of the nissan world and i mean the lord of the nissan world, is and for a long time will be the RB30DET hybrid conversion. I really dont forsee them making anything good well at least in a good light weight chasis for a while. I heard rumors of this near 240sx type car that will be FWD, ack, cough, what crap.

Now back to the question at hand. The engine choice is all about what you want to do with the car. If you want to do some minor/moderate bolt on mods go with the SR. the supply of parts to make the engine stronger and produce more are more readily available. If you just want a stock car and then crank the boost on it, get the CA18. Fortunately the CA18 uses the same size injectors as the stock SR. This means one can get the same type of power from a Stock CA18 as they can a SR20, just a little more boost. That is all it boils down to though, in stock form, litereally the difference is not much.

Lo)2enz0
09-10-2005, 09:38 PM
ha ha ha, i just wanted to post a oh rly picture.

Both are great engines and its a fight that will always be around. Most forums have it stickied because of the fights over these but with the lowering demand for ca18's they are becoming to be "unpopular" which is why if you wanna sell a car you put an sr20 due to the turn over rate on those cars.

Personally I would take a ca18det over an sr20 anyday.

86max
09-10-2005, 11:36 PM
You guys are all gay, opinions don't make one engine better than another.

mr.loco
09-11-2005, 12:11 AM
d15 rules:hijack:

Inthered
09-11-2005, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by 86max
You guys are all gay, opinions don't make one engine better than another.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. ASSHOLE, j/k...Andrew.:rofl:

hampstor
09-11-2005, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by mr.loco
d15 rules:hijack:

QR25DE :hijack:

Lo)2enz0
09-11-2005, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Inthered


Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one

ha ha ha nice call paul

Redlyne_mr2
09-11-2005, 03:16 AM
Displacement>iron block....so sr

calgarys13
09-11-2005, 03:25 AM
fj20s are betta!

dymz999
09-11-2005, 09:25 AM
Opinions when it comes to engines can make one better than another. I've heard people going around telling shit before about how the GSR engine isn't so great and how a B16 could be way better anyday. There are just so many people that fill other people up with bull.

In nissans case the engine you get really doesn't matter, so long as it has a little hair dryer on it. It is only when it comes to modifying them that there is any noticeable difference. CA18DEt and SR20DET both have the same potential in stock form.

But the FJ20 engine, if anyone can ever get a decent one out of australia is a different 2 litre engine all on its own. That is a 4 cylinder engine supporting some cars in aussie land with more than 1000hp. They stick them in old datsun Z cars mainly and some oldschool mid 80's silvia's. Its quite sick.

braden883314
09-11-2005, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Inthered
Braden, the FJ was iron block and aluminum head.

I don't know why there's some much hate for an &quot;overdesigned&quot; CA engine. SR20 hype is clouding people's minds. Oh no, what have I done?:rolleyes:

I was told is Iron head, my bad.

~Braden

finboy
09-11-2005, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Displacement&gt;iron block....so sr

in that case, ka-t > sr ;)

mshaw
09-11-2005, 12:28 PM
thats cool, so basically it doesnt really matter which engine is better because u can get the same sort of power from both of them :thumbsup:

pressure_ratio
09-11-2005, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by dymz999
No hate towards it, right now there is not exactly huge choice when importing a silvia, most come with the CA18. The RB25/RB26 Design did not come from the CA18 for the record though. The engines were designed from the RB20 series from the early to mid 80's.

I do scratch my head with this one fellow in quebec who stroked his CA18 to a CA20, kinda wierd lol.

CA20E out of an early s12 and you have your 2.0 crank.As we found out when doing Tanners bottom end all CA engines share the same rod and main bearings,just a matter of getting a set of custom pistons.If I was going to build a CA up thats the route I would go.
FJ20-older engine that was so ahead of it's time.20years later it's still on par with some of the newer 16v powerplants out there.Hella rare in north america.I've got to see this DR30 that clagarys13 now has!

4bier
09-11-2005, 01:15 PM
but has anyone ever dropped 1 of these engines in nissan pick up:confused:

Inthered
09-11-2005, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by 4bier
but has anyone ever dropped 1 of these engines in nissan pick up:confused:

There's been people running KA-T's and some crazy guys down in the states with SR20 pickups. I doubt anyone would put a FJ20 in a pickup.

braden883314
09-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by pressure_ratio


CA20E out of an early s12 and you have your 2.0 crank.As we found out when doing Tanners bottom end all CA engines share the same rod and main bearings,just a matter of getting a set of custom pistons.If I was going to build a CA up thats the route I would go.
FJ20-older engine that was so ahead of it's time.20years later it's still on par with some of the newer 16v powerplants out there.Hella rare in north america.I've got to see this DR30 that clagarys13 now has!

Me and Jeff were just workin on it, pulled out all the electronics, he's going stand alone, with alot of the extra shit and piping outta the way you can really see how big that T78 is..lol...and i bet he'll get u to weld up new piping for him, and new exhaust, lol needs to be side exit!! So i think u'll getta see alot of it..haha

~Braden

pressure_ratio
09-11-2005, 06:03 PM
Don't forget about an open gate and dump pipe!
:thumbsup:

braden883314
09-11-2005, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by pressure_ratio
Don't forget about an open gate and dump pipe!
:thumbsup:

:werd: lol lots of weldin over the winter thats for sure, i got some stuff for ya 2.

~Braden

dymz999
09-11-2005, 11:06 PM
Why such a big turbo though? you aiming for 600whp there or something lol. Oh yeah, fyi on the open dump dont get caught with it, the police can and will tag your car for towing for it!!!

FJ20 in a pickup, eek i would cry. There are a few engine places in aussie land where you could order one, the costs would be insane though along with the mileage, you'd need a full rebuild likely.

Lo)2enz0
09-11-2005, 11:08 PM
i wouldn't be suprised of he is already close to that

still to get the barrettas fan going he has to hit like 5500rpm

calgarys13
09-11-2005, 11:22 PM
and then it makes really cool noises..lane i may need some help this winter..i just order a full standalone setup, wideband o2 full gasket set for a rebuild i should have some tomei pistons and hopefully HKS cams soon, also i may soon have my new rb20 clutch and tranny , i also hafta rebuild another fj over the winter too:nut:

pressure_ratio
09-12-2005, 12:14 AM
Yeah I bet it does make all kinds of cool noises!T78...that is one fuk'n huge snail. :eek:

A full reduild?Braden was saying somthing about some oil burning.Hopefully all it needs is to be freshened up.I'd hate to be chasing parts for one of these engines.

As far a the open gate goes the sound of that thing spooling will probably drown out the exhaust,if the cops do come after you it won't be for a niose infraction!

Let me know about that charge piping,looks like I might be having a busy winter doing yours,Bradens and maybe Tanners.

braden883314
09-12-2005, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by pressure_ratio
Yeah I bet it does make all kinds of cool noises!T78...that is one fuk'n huge snail. :eek:

A full reduild?Braden was saying somthing about some oil burning.Hopefully all it needs is to be freshened up.I'd hate to be chasing parts for one of these engines.

As far a the open gate goes the sound of that thing spooling will probably drown out the exhaust,if the cops do come after you it won't be for a niose infraction!

Let me know about that charge piping,looks like I might be having a busy winter doing yours,Bradens and maybe Tanners.

It wasnt boosting past like .5bar, and as I was rippin the car apart i found the vac. line from the boost controller to the waste gate was cracked and not fully connected.

And Jeff found the burning oil problem to be the oil catch can, apparently FJ's have problems with catch cans, they dont like them.

And dont worry we will keep ya busy!!

~Braden

braden883314
09-12-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by dymz999
Why such a big turbo though? you aiming for 600whp there or something lol. Oh yeah, fyi on the open dump dont get caught with it, the police can and will tag your car for towing for it!!!

FJ20 in a pickup, eek i would cry. There are a few engine places in aussie land where you could order one, the costs would be insane though along with the mileage, you'd need a full rebuild likely.

The T78 came on the car, who the fuck knows wut that crazy jap was thinkin, its awesome!! And he is aiming for something high, with proper tuning, it should be very fast.....lol when he finally boost. And it came with a dump pipe that was welded dircetly to the 46mm waste gate and dumped straight down, but it broke off:( I think he will do the same thing, I highly doubt he's concerned with the cops, not a big issue for Jeff.


Originally posted by Lo)2enz0
i wouldn't be suprised of he is already close to that

still to get the barrettas fan going he has to hit like 5500rpm

Not when he first got it, it was surprizingly slow, Stock DR30 is suppost to be Pretty fast, much faster than a R32 Gts-t, and even Jeffs old R32 Gts-t was faster than this, but it was due to a number of problems, wait till spring;)

~Braden