Ontario Pitbull ban

[Beachgirl]

This is probably a repost, if so sorry guys.

I heard now they want to start euthanizing any new litters, or sending them out of province for research.

I have a 15 week old American red nose pit/bull mastiff/staffy cross, he’s the best dog so far that I’ve ever had, he’s smart, loyal and not to mention a big suck.
I’ve socialized the shit out of him with people and other animals.
I have a friend who’s family has 3 pitty’s now, and she has younger siblings.
They have had pitty’s since I can remember, 18 years plus, all great dogs.
I haven’t yet purchased his muzzle and I don’t want to, I live in a very rural area where others have Rotti’s, Great Danes, Chow’s, German Sheppard’s ect. These dogs roam the neighborhood. I don’t want to strap a cage over his face when I walk him, it’s uncomfortable, it makes them look vicious and how would he defend himself if the situation should ever arise?

I understand their rep, yes, but a dog is a dog, you just never know, just like all animals, and I understand that their bite does more damage, but I don’t think it’s their fault, I believe it’s the owners who make the dog, it’s the way they are raised and the environment in which they are raised in. Just like kids.

Because of their over breeding and the cross breeding they’ve become a little nutty, yes, a little sketchy sometimes, but same with all breeds, so ok, make it a rule to have them neutered or spayed at or before 6 months, only registered breeders should breed them, fine. But to wipe the breed out completely is wrong.

I hope it doesn’t go through or continue, it didn’t work in England. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

What do you guys think of it?

[Rockski]

not to sound like an ass, but it wouldnt bother me... same as dobermans... didnt one jump through a window not long ago in toronto to bite a girl that was on the side walk and kill her

[Weapon_R]

:rolleyes: Pitbull owners spend most of their time trying to convince other people that their dogs are harmless, yet nearly every brutal attack turns out to be pitbull related. Who are the owners trying to kid by saying that its the upbringing that makes pitbulls vicious. Pitbulls were bred for a specific reason and it isn't to herd sheep.

Pitbull lovers can now chime in and say otherwise.

[habsfan]

i hate pitbulls, i hope it passes. thats all.

[Raz]

Pitbulls rule, they can be some of the best little dogs ever. Anyone who specifically dislikes dobermans/pitbulls/etc are racist, its EXACTLY the same thing as saying you don't like black people because they statistically cause the most crime in the US.

Fuckers.

- Rasmus

[ehos]

DEFEND THEMSELVES? Lol.

What would a pitbull want to defend himself from?

Racist? What race are dogs by the way?

[Primer_Drift]

^^
:rofl:
Raz, I think the difference being blacks weren't bred to fight other blacks in a pit to the death, or bred to commit crimes. As human beings they have the choice whether to conciously commit acts of violence, whereas dogs follow their instincts for the most part. Training a dog only goes so far, when fight or flight instincts take over it isn't worth a damn.

I agree with weapon_R, these dogs were bred to be dangerous. Trying to socialize it out of them won't make a random attack less likely to occur. Its wrong to assume your dog is safe, and that you can control its basic instincts. Its kinda like walking around holding a loaded gun..

[Ekliptix]

We used to have a pitbull. We've had dogs for 25yrs and those of you who've been to my home have seen how friendly our dogs behave.
With that said, we had a pitbull and a german sheppard about 15yrs ago. We lived on acreage so they had plenty of space, etc. and the dogs were real buds. One day some a guest brought their female dog by which happened to be in heat (if I remember right). Me (10yrs old) and my sibling relatives were outside on the deck when our pitbull and german shepard got in a fight, over the female guest dog we think.
In a few seconds our pitbull had our german shepard by the neck and had the famous 'jaw lock' on.
Most of us were freaking out and trying to get the pitbull off the german shepard. Over the next 10 minutes my Dad attempted a crow-bar between it's jaws, vacuum cleaner head over the dogs head, etc and finally it let go and the dogs were friendly soon after. My parents decided to give the dog away because it was unpredictable, even after being raised as well as we could have.

The point I'm making is that if someone has a pitbull they need to treat it and be responsible in a different way then that of other dogs.

[Xtrema]

I have no problem with the dog but I have problems with people with no skill or discipline to train them which ended up being dangerous.

[Beachgirl]

Breed Specific Legislation is a law that targets individual dogs based solely on their breed, and not their actions (dog "breeds" have no more scientific basis than do human "races"). Statistics show that more than 99% of all dogs, from all breeds, are never involved in attacks at any time during their lives. This means that people who support breed specific laws are people who agree with punishing more than 99% of innocent people and dogs, based on the actions of a tiny number of negligent dog owners.

As for “defending” himself, did you not read, there are rotti’s, chow’s etc in my neighborhood that roam. So yeah, defend himself wasn’t a stretch of comments.

They’re a targeted breed so any off key temperament will be front page news. I’ve heard of many “Lassie” attacks, what you have to base your opinions on is the media, and I think we all know the sensationalism the media is capable of.

[SikAssR1]

Say what you will about this video but as a current pitbull owner they are the most loyal pet you can ever ask for. The media totally bashes this breed, whenever you hear of a dog bite you assume its a pitbull, but say its a lab, poodle etc, the breed doesnt get mentioned.

http://www.pitbullproblem.tk/

[Weapon_R]

That is simply not true - the reason that labs and poodles are not mentioned is because they do not attack individuals with the same viciousness as pitbulls. The biggest copout I hear from pitbull owners and sympathizers is that their aggressiveness is due to their upbringing, yet we don't see the same type of attacks from other breeds.

One would assume that bad owners buy many different breeds of dogs, yet we only hear extreme cases with Pitbulls involved. They are a breed that was intended for their vicious fighting skills. Personally, if exterminating the entire breed saves a few little children from sparking an attack, so be it.

[Rockski]

either way, if a dog is comming at me to hurt me, ESPCIALLY A PIT BULL, since they dont like to let go, im kicking it in the throat... even if a poodle is comming at me, im going to kick it in the throat, but first its going to get a fist in the face, then a kick in the throat, because they can let go.

[w3apon]

Here is an interesting read with some statistics:

Breeds of Dogs involved in fatal human attacks 1979-1998
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

[ehos]

Originally posted by Beachgirl

As for “defending” himself, did you not read, there are rotti’s, chow’s etc in my neighborhood that roam. So yeah, defend himself wasn’t a stretch of comments.


You're making yourself sound ridiculous. You mean you have stray dogs wandering your neighbourhood?

Call the SPCA, they'll take care of those dogs that 'roam.' All dogs should be with their owners in public. Do you let your dog 'roam' around?

In that case he should FOR SURE Have a muzzle. :rolleyes:

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news/accidents_emergencies/dog_attack_232.jpg

AWW SO CUTE!!

[ehos]

Originally posted by w3apon
Here is an interesting read with some statistics:

Breeds of Dogs involved in fatal human attacks 1979-1998
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

Oh well, you see there, that makes it all ok.

As long as it's not FATAL, it's ok right? :rolleyes:

What about the physical/psychological damage that's inflicted by these breed specific dogs?

She survived, so it's all right?


http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/06/10/eve/pitbulla.jpg

[w3apon]

Where the hell in my post did I say non fatal attacks were ok??
I was just posting a link to dog attack statistics linked to fatalities.

p.s. I use to have an american pit bull who wouldn't hurt a mouse.



Originally posted by ehos


Oh well, you see there, that makes it all ok.

As long as it's not FATAL, it's ok right? :rolleyes:

What about the physical/psychological damage that's inflicted by these breed specific dogs?

She survived, so it's all right?


http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/06/10/eve/pitbulla.jpg

[Canaduh]

personally I don't see the issue, while yes pitbul's are bred to be "mean" dogs, not all of them are. I have a german sheppard that would rip you to shreds the second you tried to get into the house but if I am there he would sniff you to death. It is all in how the dog is raised. I had a roomie who had a little jack russel who used to attack even him for no reason. I've seen lots of nice pitbuls who are people friendly. No different then any other dog imo:dunno:

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by ehos


You're making yourself sound ridiculous. You mean you have stray dogs wandering your neighbourhood?

Call the SPCA, they'll take care of those dogs that 'roam.' All dogs should be with their owners in public. Do you let your dog 'roam' around?

In that case he should FOR SURE Have a muzzle. :rolleyes:

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news/accidents_emergencies/dog_attack_232.jpg

AWW SO CUTE!!

My dog wouldn't roam the neighborhood, as I SAID before, I don't allow him to. I live AS I SAID in a rural area, we have more problems with bears and raccoons. It's different here, so yes, the dogs and cats roam the area.

[Rockski]

Originally posted by ehos




http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news/accidents_emergencies/dog_attack_232.jpg



aww such a child killer

[AcuraTl]

Originally posted by Rockski


aww such a child killer


:rofl:

[theken]

http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/ posted in one of the other pitbull threads like 2 years ago, im kinda sick of hearing how bad pitbulls are, i have played wth them in parks and shit and never had a problem, i have never seen any rage in a dog that is trained properly and if u have control over your dog they wont get aggressive, if they ban them they ban them but i think it is bullshit, they should stereotype humans like that too, like indians rob stores so lets stop the breeding and they will die off, black guys kill in the states so lets kill them all off, asians cant drive so dont give them cars its all rediculous.

[Rockski]

accept we're allowed to generalize and stereotype animals, unlike people... cause then its a hate crime

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Personally, if exterminating the entire breed saves a few little children from sparking an attack, so be it.

That about sums it up for me too.

[Rockski]

BINGO

[Made_To_Love]

Any dog can be vicious if provoked, stupid people shouldn't leave children alone with family dogs, dogs don't think like humans, they don't understand that if they bite baby, baby will bleed. I found some articles on dog attacks, any dog is a danger to people.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm

[Made_To_Love]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Personally, if exterminating the entire breed saves a few little children from sparking an attack, so be it.


Then people will just move on to another breed, exterminating won't make anything better, next people will choose to get rid of German shepards or rottis.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Made_To_Love



Then people will just move on to another breed, exterminating won't make anything better, next people will choose to get rid of German shepards or rottis.

good

if those dogs are killing or maiming lots of children then exterminate them too... pretty simple.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Made_To_Love



Then people will just move on to another breed, exterminating won't make anything better, next people will choose to get rid of German shepards or rottis.

Perhaps that may be true, except people already choose German Shepherds and Rottis far more than Pitbulls, and there is not nearly the related incidents.

I think its safe to assume that there are good and bad owners of every breed, especially the more prominently violent ones (rotties, german shepherds, pitbulls, dobermans, etc) and yet 9 times out of 10, it is a pitbull who is responsible for a violent attack.

[Beachgirl]

That's untrue, statistics show that in Canada, every year, pitbulls fluctuate from 5th to 12th on the list of attacks. Last year they were 8th on the list.
Shepherds, Rottis, Labs, Cocker Spaniels and Jack Russels are among the top.

Less damage, maybe, but as someone stated earlier, "at least the girl lived" or something along those lines.

[w3apon]

Hey Beachgirl, do you have a link to those statistics? I'd be interested to read up on it more, thanks.

[Hakkola]

Beachgirl, these statistics you speak of, do they take into account how many Pitbulls there are compared to other dogs?

If you have 100 000 german shepards with 100 instances of attacks in a year, and it comes in 1st, and you have only 5000 pitbulls with 60 instances of attacks and it comes in 8th, it's a very different situation.

Your statistics are meaningless if they dont distinguish those types of things, not to mention how easily stats can be manipulated. Your post left out any information somebody with any sort of intelligence would ask for.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by w3apon
Hey Beachgirl, do you have a link to those statistics? I'd be interested to read up on it more, thanks.

LOL, especially since your stats have been referenced and show the complete opposite!

[Beachgirl]

Here's one site:

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/chirpp
schirpt/11jul97/iss11d_e.html

Im trying to find the others.

[Beachgirl]

If you want to take the time to read this, it's interesting.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/hansard/committee_debates/38_parl/session1/legassembly/M010.htm

[Hakkola]

First link didn't work, but second one i got this.

"First of all, a dog's tendency to bite is governed by five things. The first is heredity, but the other four are owner- and victim-related. They include early experience of the dog, later socialization and training -- or lack thereof -- the health of the animal and the victim's behaviour. So more appropriately, dog bites are really an owner and victim problem, not a dog problem."

Kind of contradictory, she said the first is heredity, then it's not a dog problem.

[Beachgirl]

There are a lot of good points by each side. But I still don't agree with it.

[D. Dub]

Kudos to the Ontario govt. for not pandering to the LCD and looking out for the public good.

[ehos]

HUMANS > Dogs

The problem isn't the dogs, or the law or anything of that sort.

The problem is people that love dogs more than other human beings. Rationalization, delusion, ignorance etc. When in reality, the problem is quite easy to fix. Don't rationalize that some dogs are vicious or whatever bs reasons are given

Problem: Realize, dogs bite people (not all, but they can and they do).

Solution: Muzzle them all in public. Fair, equitible to all humans. (Show me how 'dog' rights are being violated here).

Change leash laws to muzzle laws.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The only problem with muzzling in public is that the dogs are just as dangerous at home, where they don't need muzzles. If the owners don't have a fence/keep the animal on a leash 100% of the time, it's just as dangerous.

[l8braker]

BAN THEM...........

http://cfcn.ca/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/B/20050919/pitbull?brand=generic&hub=&tf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.html&cf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.cfg&slug=pitbull&date=20050919&archive=CFCNPlus&ad_page_name=&nav=home&subnav=fullstory

[D. Dub]

:eek:

poor lab and old guy :(

[ehos]

"Witnesses say the pit bull was running free when it attacked a black lab."

Riiight. Lets let a pitbull run free. Reminds me of another genius on this thread that does that.

:rolleyes: Stupid owners, stupid pets to own (whats the though process behind buying a pitbull?)

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by ehos
"Witnesses say the pit bull was running free when it attacked a black lab."

Riiight. Lets let a pitbull run free. Reminds me of another genius on this thread that does that.

:rolleyes: Stupid owners, stupid pets to own (whats the though process behind buying a pitbull?)

lack of self esteem? need to look like a tough gangsta? small penis?
no concern for others?

[Rockski]

i heard there were 2 pitbulls running and both went after lab

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


lack of self esteem? need to look like a tough gangsta? small penis?
no concern for others?



Actually, ignorance suites you.

I had a choice of three types of dogs, I didn't want a rat, I wanted a larger dog, the chocolate labs were way too high strung, the golden retireivers just layed there, and I wanted a mutt. Who fucking cares, I'm not breeding him, I don't plan on breeding him, I didn't choose him because his markings, or his size, I'm not throwing him in a ring to tear apart other dogs, I chose him because he had the best temperment of all three litters. Isnt' that funny, a pitbull with a better temperment, weird. Besides, I shouldn't have to justify myself to you. Who the fuck are you anyway?

If you say it's because there is no concern for others I ask you this, do you speed? Ever? Make illegal lane changes? Ever? Thought so.

You might as well as the quesiton, why does anyone get any type of dog? I guess they do it because they don't have any concern for others, that about sums it up right there, why weren't you there to clear the air for everyone? All this fighting within the government would've been over by now.

And as I said before, TWICE now, this'll be three, my dog DOES NOT ROAM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, the other dogs do, I don't see any complaints on that, oh maybe, just maybe because they aren't a 3rd pitbull so they're not a threat.

........and my penis is a fine size thanks for asking, I'll be getting back to my book on ebonics.

[Rockski]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



I had a choice of three types of dogs, I didn't want a rat, I wanted a larger dog, the chocolate labs were way too high strung, the golden retireivers just layed there, and I wanted a mutt.


i betcha the golden retriever that just layed there wouldnt of attacked anybody (particularly in calgarys latest case)

[buck]

since the majority of bites are by other breeds wht aren't they banning them.Here in alberta the #3 top biters are golden labs think #2 was a cocker-spaniel. Better put them all down..
It's not the dogs it's the owners

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by l8braker
BAN THEM...........

http://cfcn.ca/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/B/20050919/pitbull?brand=generic&hub=&tf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.html&cf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.cfg&slug=pitbull&date=20050919&archive=CFCNPlus&ad_page_name=&nav=home&subnav=fullstory


It's so glorified, always.
There was nothing to entice it right? Right, it's a rabid crazy dog that did it for no apparent reason, just for fun, uh huh. Of course, it makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

Gotta love the media. Honest and yet so entertaining.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by Rockski


i betcha the golden retriever that just layed there wouldnt of attacked anybody (particularly in calgarys latest case)

What a moronic comment, how the hell do you know that retreiver wont grow up to be vicious?

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl




Actually, ignorance suites you.

I had a choice of three types of dogs, I didn't want a rat, I wanted a larger dog, the chocolate labs were way too high strung, the golden retireivers just layed there, and I wanted a mutt. Who fucking cares, I'm not breeding him, I don't plan on breeding him, I didn't choose him because his markings, or his size, I'm not throwing him in a ring to tear apart other dogs, I chose him because he had the best temperment of all three litters. Isnt' that funny, a pitbull with a better temperment, weird. Besides, I shouldn't have to justify myself to you. Who the fuck are you anyway?

If you say it's because there is no concern for others I ask you this, do you speed? Ever? Make illegal lane changes? Ever? Thought so.

You might as well as the quesiton, why does anyone get any type of dog? I guess they do it because they don't have any concern for others, that about sums it up right there, why weren't you there to clear the air for everyone? All this fighting within the government would've been over by now.

And as I said before, TWICE now, this'll be three, my dog DOES NOT ROAM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, the other dogs do, I don't see any complaints on that, oh maybe, just maybe because they aren't a 3rd pitbull so they're not a threat.

........and my penis is a fine size thanks for asking, I'll be getting back to my book on ebonics.

After that rant...I guess we can assume itsa lack of self esteem then?

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by buck
since the majority of bites are by other breeds wht aren't they banning them.Here in alberta the #3 top biters are golden labs think #2 was a cocker-spaniel. Better put them all down..
It's not the dogs it's the owners


My point exactly.

If this pit really wanted to do some serious damage to that lab, he would've done it, but yet it's not written on the damage, if it was that bad, there would've been some drama, and they would've reported it immediately. How did a guy have time to hit it with a shovel to stop it, the dog should've been dead, or almost.
A lot of miss informed people is what I think it is.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl


What a moronic comment, how the hell do you know that retreiver wont grow up to be vicious?

Umm b/c its not in its nature???

Dogs are bred for certain genetically based behavioural characteristics:

Retrievers retrieve, herding dogs herd, pointers point, racing dogs run
and well fighting dogs they attack and fight.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by buck
since the majority of bites are by other breeds wht aren't they banning them.Here in alberta the #3 top biters are golden labs think #2 was a cocker-spaniel. Better put them all down..
It's not the dogs it's the owners

A warning bite by a lab or spaniel is not the same as an all out pitbull attack.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


After that rant...I guess we can assume itsa lack of self esteem then?

How does getting a dog of your choice mean you have low self- esteem?

Don't just drop a Dr. Phil diagnosis and not have anything to back it up.

Well then?

And if that were the case, I could say the same for people dating people who they feel are nice, attractive etc.
Or those who buy a nice house in a nice neighborhood, or those who buy a car because of reliability and looks.

Get off it and explain yourself.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



There was nothing to entice it right? Right, it's a rabid crazy dog that did it for no apparent reason, just for fun, uh huh.

pretty much

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl


How does getting a dog of your choice mean you have low self- esteem?

Don't just drop a Dr. Phil diagnosis and not have anything to back it up.

Well then?

And if that were the case, I could say the same for people dating people who they feel are nice, attractive etc.
Or those who buy a nice house in a nice neighborhood, or those who buy a car because of reliability and looks.

Get off it and explain yourself.

Pitbulls are the Hummers (w 22 inch spinners) of the dog world.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


Umm b/c its not in its nature???

Dogs are bred for certain genetically based behavioural characteristics:

Retrievers retrieve, herding dogs herd, pointers point, racing dogs run
and well fighting dogs they attack and fight.


Ponder this for a moment, I had a lab/collie cross for years. It didn't herd shit and it didn't go near the water, it didn't retreive shit either.

This isn't the 18th century, dogs have become domesticated and no longer need or use what was bred into them years ago. Genius you are.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


Pitbulls are the Hummers (w 22 inch spinners) of the dog world.


Are you on crack? I mean really, think about what you're saying.
Your comparison is weak.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by buck
since the majority of bites are by other breeds wht aren't they banning them.Here in alberta the #3 top biters are golden labs think #2 was a cocker-spaniel. Better put them all down..
It's not the dogs it's the owners

Again, that's probably because there are a lot more golden labs and cocker spaniels than there are pitbulls. If you're gonna use statistics back it up with more information, or they're just useless numbers.

It's like me saying that the most crashed car brand is Honda, with 15 000 cars involved in accidents, and number 8 is Mercedes Benz, with 5000 cars involved in accidents. Does that mean mercedes drivers are more attentive? No, it's probably because there's fewer benz drivers than there are Honda drivers.

To make my point again, 1000 pitbulls with 500 attacks is much worse than 2000 labs with 600 attacks.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



Ponder this for a moment, I had a lab/collie cross for years. It didn't herd shit and it didn't go near the water, it didn't retreive shit either.

This isn't the 18th century, dogs have become domesticated and no longer need or use what was bred into them years ago. Genius you are.

Ummm no... dogs are now bred for purpose as much as they were in the past...especially the herding, sporting and working classes.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



Are you on crack? I mean really, think about what you're saying.
Your comparison is weak.

Nope I think its bang on.

[Rockski]

Originally posted by Beachgirl


What a moronic comment, how the hell do you know that retreiver wont grow up to be vicious?

i could say double about your comment there, how do you know that the retriever that "just layed there" wouldnt of grown up to be super active and run around?
mornic comment that contradics its self on your part

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by Rockski


i could say double about your comment there, how do you know that the retriever that "just layed there" wouldnt of grown up to be super active and run around?
mornic comment that contradics its self on your part


Bingo! You said it. That's the point, an incident whether bad or good doesn't represent the entire breed, just as the retriever lying there doesn't necessarily mean it would end up to be a lazy dog neither.

Get the point?

You’re talking in circles.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


Ummm no... dogs are now bred for purpose as much as they were in the past...especially the herding, sporting and working classes.

Actually you’re wrong. Dogs are no longer needed nearly as much for work etc. What seeing eye dogs, police dogs, yeah.
Yes people may still use them for hunting but we no longer HAVE to hunt for food, as a result they aren’t used nearly as much in the same manner, and only for that purpose.
They are mostly bought for companionship, an extension of ones family etc.
Therefore, they are more so domesticated now had have been for years.

Why am I arguing that point, it’s a fact.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Beachgirl


Actually you’re wrong. Dogs are no longer needed nearly as much for work etc. What seeing eye dogs, police dogs, yeah.
Yes people may still use them for hunting but we no longer HAVE to hunt for food, as a result they aren’t used nearly as much in the same manner, and only for that purpose.
They are mostly bought for companionship, an extension of ones family etc.
Therefore, they are more so domesticated now had have been for years.

Why am I arguing that point, it’s a fact.

You really are clueless aren't you?

Domestication means to breed for human use.

Dogs are used and bred for herding, hunting, protection etc etc as much now as ever.

Even though many dogs are just for companionship now; there are still many instinctual artifacts left from the purposeful breeding in the past.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by D. Dub


You really are clueless aren't you?

Domestication means to breed for human use.

Dogs are used and bred for herding, hunting, protection etc etc as much now as ever.

Even though many dogs are just for companionship now; there are still many instinctual artifacts left from the purposeful breeding in the past.

Yes, you're right, boy you did your english homework didn't you? That is one definition of "domestic" Congrats.
But, the form in which domesticated was used in this case was:

"To introduce and accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize"
"To adopt or make fit for domestic use or life"
"To cause to feel comfortable at home; make domestic"
"accustomed to home life"

[ehos]

Originally posted by Beachgirl

As for “defending” himself, did you not read, there are rotti’s, chow’s etc in my neighborhood that roam. So yeah, defend himself wasn’t a stretch of comments.


Make up your mind already!

First you defend dogs as not being 'vicious', but in the first place you say, you need to defend yourself (and he needs to defend himself).

Which side of the fence are you on?

Also, like I said before CALL THE SPCA, dogs are NOT allowed to roam around. Especially ones that are vicious and threatening (which you obviously think they are).

Maybe we should get you a muzzle? Think before you type.

Tnx.

PS Other dogs bite, but at least you can get them to RELEASE their bites. Pitbulls are known for their death grips. (Good character to have in a dog, a bite that is impossible to release!)

[ehos]

Originally posted by D. Dub

After that rant...I guess we can assume itsa lack of self esteem then?

You notice how she gets super defensive whenver you say anything?

She wants a 'debate' but only as long as you say things that match her viewpoints exactly (though, it's tough to figure out what her viewpoint really is).

Why so defensive Beachgirl? Your posting on a PUBLIC forum, don't expect everyone to agree with you, it's OK.

Disagreement is a GOOD thing. It opens your eyes to the world and different points of view. (Well, in your case that seems like a bad thing...)

[Rockski]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



Bingo! You said it. That's the point, an incident whether bad or good doesn't represent the entire breed, just as the retriever lying there doesn't necessarily mean it would end up to be a lazy dog neither.

Get the point?

You’re talking in circles.

and how the hell DONT you know a pitbull is going to grow up vicious, ESPECIALY since thats what they were bread for, where as a lazy retriever was bread to RETRIEVE

[Rockski]

Originally posted by ehos


PS Other dogs bite, but at least you can get them to RELEASE their bites. Pitbulls are known for their death grips. (Good character to have in a dog, a bite that is impossible to release!)

thats what a tire iron is for

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Beachgirl


Actually you’re wrong. Dogs are no longer needed nearly as much for work etc. What seeing eye dogs, police dogs, yeah.
Yes people may still use them for hunting but we no longer HAVE to hunt for food

Just thought i'd comment here on this - a dog's genetic makeup does not change as a result of changing customs and traditions. A dog bred 1000 years ago to herd is still genetically a herding dog, a hunting dog bred 200 years ago is still a hunting dog, and a fighting dog (your beloved Pitbulls) are still fighting dogs, no matter how much you try to convince anyone otherwise. They were bred to kill Bulls, not as companions.

[Beachgirl]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Just thought i'd comment here on this - a dog's genetic makeup does not change as a result of changing customs and traditions. A dog bred 1000 years ago to herd is still genetically a herding dog, a hunting dog bred 200 years ago is still a hunting dog, and a fighting dog (your beloved Pitbulls) are still fighting dogs, no matter how much you try to convince anyone otherwise. They were bred to kill Bulls, not as companions.


And that might very well be true, to an extent, but that's like saying back in the slavery days black people were weeded out so only the genetically sound were used to pick cotton, worked as maids, butlers etc. and worked on farms, so therefore they are still cotton pickers? :confused:

[240droptop]

wheter th dog was once bread to kill or bread to heard etc etc dosent make the diffrence to me I've seen pitbulls that are as gentle as a big bag of cotton personaly I think its how there raised spend time with your pet and it will grow up right if your going to neglec your dog of course its gunna have a sour attitude towards people. you gota remeber most owners of pitbuls buy them for there image and raise them to be tuff gaurd dogs its a stereo type and thats all ah dog will behave the way its raised

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Beachgirl



And that might very well be true, to an extent, but that's like saying back in the slavery days black people were weeded out so only the genetically sound were used to pick cotton, worked as maids, butlers etc. and worked on farms, so therefore they are still cotton pickers? :confused:

:confused:

I'll try again - a dog's genetic makeup is not influenced by environment or external influences. This means that a dog who was bred to herd will instinctively have that trait forever, or until a genetic mutation occurs which renders the current genetic make up inferior. The Pitbull will instinctively have a fierce tendency to fight as that is exactly what they were bred to do. Environment can infuence the temperment of a particular breed, but cannot overcome the genetic makeup of that animal - Pitbulls do what they were bred to do, and they do it extremely well.

PS - Great example you used :thumbsup:

[ehos]

Originally posted by Beachgirl

And that might very well be true, to an extent, but that's like saying back in the slavery days black people were weeded out so only the genetically sound were used to pick cotton, worked as maids, butlers etc. and worked on farms, so therefore they are still cotton pickers? :confused:

Holy FUCK.

First it was your ignorant posts about Indian people, now this fucked up example using black people.

What the hell is it with you? No wonder you love your dog so much, I doubt any human could stand your racist bullshit.

[tapout]

i have had boxers,dobermans,rotti,minpins,bull mastiffs,pressa canirios,pitbulls & out of those breeds i chosed the pitbull.every one has a right to there own opinion. a dog is all in the owners hand punish the need not the breed.

[AcuraTl]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


:confused:

I'll try again - a dog's genetic makeup is not influenced by environment or external influences. This means that a dog who was bred to herd will instinctively have that trait forever, or until a genetic mutation occurs which renders the current genetic make up inferior. The Pitbull will instinctively have a fierce tendency to fight as that is exactly what they were bred to do. Environment can infuence the temperment of a particular breed, but cannot overcome the genetic makeup of that animal - Pitbulls do what they were bred to do, and they do it extremely well.

PS - Great example you used :thumbsup:

what about Solar Radiation that can affect our Genetic makeup, and case cancerous mutations :D

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by tapout
i have had boxers,dobermans,rotti,minpins,bull mastiffs,pressa canirios,pitbulls & out of those breeds i chosed the pitbull.every one has a right to there own opinion. a dog is all in the owners hand punish the need not the breed.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and dog..

until that choice effects the safety and security of others...that is what this is really all about.

I really understand that some pitties are friendly and sweet dogs but--

the potential for damage to humans and other dogs is huge b/c of their physical and mental make-up. They are basically fighting machines.

In a perfect world we would punish the deed not the breed--but the simplest solution is to keep the dogs out of the hands of people that are irresponsible. All pitbulls in Ontario are under the new laws--not the most fair solution but the most effective at keeping people safe.

The needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few...it's called civil society.

[ehos]

Originally posted by tapout
a dog is all in the owners hand punish the need not the breed.

I agree. The dog owner should be punished for the dogs actions (wow, what a can of worms that would be).

But I like the idea. If you buy a dangerous breed dog (actually any dog) you should have to sign a contract.

Whatever the dog does (ie rips a kids arm off) should be inflicted back on the dog owner.

Sounds fair right? I BETCHA there would be 0 dog attacks after that (tatoo the owners name on the dog).

:)

[celica girl]

A great pitbull story:

http://home.golden.net/~anns/nortonstory.html

[abyss]

I equate owning pitbulls along the same lines as the people that own and defend tigers. Hello! They're genetically bred to be mean, no amount of training will prevent an instinctual fight or flight response of agression. I always laugh at the people that say, no man, my tiger is safe, I raised it from a kitten. It loves me and woundn't ever hurt a fly, nevermind maul a defenseless child. Good one. :rolleyes:

[REFLUX]

Ok after skimming thru this entire thread there are a few points that HAVE to be cleared up.

First and foremost, American Pit Bull Terriers were bred to FIGHT other DOGS.
Let's do a quick summarization of their history:
Pit Bulls were made to fight other dogs in the ring. During a dog fight there would only be 3 people allowed in the ring.
The Referee and the 2 owners of the fighting dogs.

Now let me ask you this, what happens when you try to approach an injured animal?
Particularly an injured carnivore?
They bite, they attack, they hurt whatever it is in an effort to protect themselves.
It doesnt' matter what kind of animal, let alone a dog, an injured animal Will Not allow another being to touch them when they are injured.

But in a dog fight, they would have rounds just like a boxing match. After each round the dogs would have to be brought back to their side of the ring and the owners would "patch them up", so to speak. If their dog snapped at them, how would the owners be able to patch them up? It would be impossible.

So when the Pit Bull was bred, it was bred SPECIFICALLY to be Dog Aggressive but Completely Not Human Aggressive.
It was for the dog's own good for it to be 100% trusting of humans.
It is in their genes.

If a fighting dog snapped at the owner/referee, it was either immediately fixed (neutered/spayed) or destroyed.

American Pit Bull Terriers were Genetically Bred to NOT be Human Aggressive.

Dog aggression is VERY different from Human aggression.


Any & all dogs that are human aggressive should be put down.
ESPECIALLY the American Pit Bull Terrier.
An APBT that is human aggressive is like having a Rottweiler that isn't territorial & doesn't protect its family/pack. It's like having a Golden Retriever that doesn't retrieve or having a Border Collie that is unable to herd.

It Is Useless.


So yes, to an extent Pit Bulls WERE bred to be aggressive but ONLY to other dogs.
Any signs of aggression to humans is to be eliminated at once because it is not a sound dog, let alone a Pit Bull.


Next point, dogs that have attacked other dogs/humans are not only poor examples of their breed (possibly because of inbreeding, excessive breeding, terrible ownership, or a combination of many other things) but they are examples of Irresponsible Owners.

If you were a smart owner, what would you prefer:
1) Prevent any incident.
2) Deal with the fallout of your dog injuring another being.

Most likely #1.
Since that is the case, if your dog is getting itself into trouble, You Are A Bad Owner.

People who own Pit Bulls CAN NEVER assume their dog will not fight. They cannot ever assume their dog will not bite.
An Ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of Cure.

-When in public, your dog should always be on a secure leash & collar.
-When it meets dogs/people, be very cautious & aware of how your dog is reacting AND be aware of how the other dogs/people are reacting.
-When in your backyard, your fence should be high enough that it cannot be climbed/cleared by the dog and strong enough not to be broken thru and deep enough that it can not be dug under.
-When there are guests over, unless they fully understand the type of dog you own & its temperament & even have past experience with it, never let the dog out of your sight.
-Do not leave it alone with children or sketchy adults (fear propogates fear).

Sure it sounds like you're housing a prison inmate but if you are to own a dog with such bad stigma, No Amount Of Risk Can Be Taken.
PERIOD.


If you get caught with your pants down, it's over.

So be a responsible owner, if you got a human aggressive Pit Bull, do society at large a favor and put it to sleep.
Never let your dog out of your sight when it is in a new place or around new people/dogs.
Never let your dog run around freely in public areas.
And never give your dog the chance to break out of the backyard.


It isn't worth the risk for other people/dogs & just as importantly, it isn't worth the risk to ruin the public image of this breed any further.

[D. Dub]

Great post. :thumbsup:

I do agree that pitties were bred to be non aggressive to humans in the past but unfortunately perhaps this inbred trait is losing it's hold and their aggression is becoming more generalized...especially as meathead bikers and gangsters and drug dealers are breeding them as "guard dogs"

I also agree all human aggressive dogs should be put down...something I've already done with a rescued dog that was aggressive towards kids!!

Again, great post!