Sidney Crosby's debut

[googe]

I dunno about this guy...he got way overhyped. Hes definitely a great player, but to say he is the next gretzky or lemieux is a bit much. He played well in his first game, but couldnt score. He also got stuffed trying to show off a bit I think.

By contrast, in lemieux's first NHL game, on his first shift ever, he immediately stole the puck from ray borque and scored his first goal on his first shot.

Hard to say based on only 1 game (especially preseason) though.

Pittsburgh looks like it became a pretty stacked team overnight, so that will definitely help.

I dont doubt he will be a big star, but Gretzky and Lemieuxs records seem pretty untouchable. It seems like the league and the media are just too eager to find the next big thing, because its been a while.

Is he really "The Next One"? :dunno: Looking forward to see how he plays against ottawa tomorrow.

i dunno about posing for GQ and vanity fair either :thumbsdow

[duffspec]

I think the era of gretzky lemieux are deffinetly over and it will be hard pressed to relive those days. The game has changed so much that a guy like crosby will be hard pressed to score 50 goals.....mind you it is possible but, you also have to play an all round game to even get a chance at that ice time. Iggy is the funest player to watch IMO he is a total package.

If crosby finds out how to find his grove he will deffinetly put up some points. What I worry about is all the fancy bullshit he tries how do I know, I spent alot of tome watching him at the MAC's cup back in the day and wonder if he would actually play the game how much potential he would have. If he keeps up with the fancy stuff he is going to run it some big hits and cheap shoots for sure.

[habsfan]

i was fairly impressed by his debut, i think he potted 2 assists didnt he? sure lemiux scored on his first shot, but he also probably got lucky too, you can never really know. will he be the next great thing, who knows. way too early to tell, but i think he's off to a decent start.

[Hakkola]

Can't really base how good he's going to be by his first game or even his first season, yeah, lemieux did good on his first game, but how'd gretzky do? Selanne holds the record for points in a rookie season, is he the greatest player ever?

He only had one assist, and 5 minutes later he rang one off the post.

Also lemieux's first point I believe was scored during the regular season, on his first shift, not preseason. ;)

[88CRX]

he is going to be a star.

you say the media is quick to label him as the next "great one" yet you sit and say that he doesnt look that good after seeing him play 1 preseason game :dunno:

if you didnt watch the full game you cant judge how a player played by the higlights on tv.

[tapout]

Originally posted by 88CRX
he is going to be a star.

you say the media is quick to label him as the next "great one" yet you sit and say that he doesnt look that good after seeing him play 1 preseason game :dunno:

if you didnt watch the full game you cant judge how a player played by the higlights on tv. :werd: he will be the next big thing

[Kirbs17]

give him a season under the wing of Lemuix, and hes going to soar in the future, i see nothing but great things from him

[l8braker]

A) this is the preseason. what 2-3 games in?
B) he's not mario.
C) bump this thread half way thruthe season.

[Street_Soldier]

he played pretty well IMO. got many shots on net. split the d twice. drawn like 3 penalties.

[SI-vic]

maybe he'll just become the next Alexander Daigle
what a joke THAT was

[stevieo]

Originally posted by SI-vic
maybe he'll just become the next Alexander Daigle
what a joke THAT was

bahahaha, I am doubtful he will become a daigle.

remember what he said about pronger and him being the 2nd overall pick? whats up now mr.daigle hahaha.


crosby is good, he has a potiental to become a franchise player. this is only a preseason game so he can only get better especially since his mentor/linemate is an all time great, the magnificent one mario.

[SI-vic]

Originally posted by stevieo


bahahaha, I am doubtful he will become a daigle.

remember what he said about pronger and him being the 2nd overall pick? whats up now mr.daigle hahaha.


crosby is good, he has a potiental to become a franchise player. this is only a preseason game so he can only get better especially since his mentor/linemate is an all time great, the magnificent one mario.


didnt....
daigle lost his love for the game (so he says) and took a shot at acting (i think he was the barney)
but came back to hockey after failing the acting career (a failure is he)

:rofl: what a joke he is

crosby has the potential like you said but its his first season
if he becomes a bust like M.A Fluery in his first season then the media and everyone is gonna turn on him (no we were wrong about this kid etc. etc.). It's only his first season so Im not expecting much from him yet.

even if he became the next sakic or yzerman
that would still be amazing

[googe]

Originally posted by 88CRX
he is going to be a star.

you say the media is quick to label him as the next "great one" yet you sit and say that he doesnt look that good after seeing him play 1 preseason game :dunno:

if you didnt watch the full game you cant judge how a player played by the higlights on tv.

big difference between a star and a lemieux/gretzky ;)

lol, whats with all the people saying "hes going to be great, he hasnt played enough games to be judged"? if he hasnt played enough for me to say that he isnt going to be the next great one, then he hasnt played enough for you guys to say he IS going to be the next great one :nut:

im aware its too early to tell.

[USHER]

yes its way to early to tell.

i think you are all forgeting about a boy named leBron james. just because there is a lot of hype doesnt mean you have to think he is overrated. the hype is there for a reason. he might be as good but hey you never know

[googe]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Selanne holds the record for points in a rookie season, is he the greatest player ever?


actually gretzky had 137 points in his first season. selanne had 132. since gretzky played for in the WHA for a year prior to joining the NHL, which was also considered pro, he technically wasnt considered for any "rookie" records.

for the most part you make valid points though, and i agree its too early to tell. just...discussing :D but like i said in my previous post...on that same token, i dont think anyone has any room to say "hes the next gretzky" either.

in the grand scheme of things, even sakic and yzerman dont hold a candle to the footprint gretzky left in the history of the game.

[88CRX]

I dont think you can even start to compare Crosby to Alex Daigle. Completely different senario, Daigle never really wanted to play hockey, he had no heart.

Crosby might never break Gretzky's records (he wont. nobody will) but by the looks of things he might dominate the NHL in the coming years. Comparing him to players like Iginla, Thornton, Lecavalier, Nash, etc etc etc. who play in this "new" NHL and he's looking pretty damn good.

[stevieo]

Originally posted by 88CRX
I dont think you can even start to compare Crosby to Alex Daigle. Completely different senario, Daigle never really wanted to play hockey, he had no heart.

Crosby might never break Gretzky's records (he wont. nobody will) but by the looks of things he might dominate the NHL in the coming years. Comparing him to players like Iginla, Thornton, Lecavalier, Nash, etc etc etc. who play in this "new" NHL and he's looking pretty damn good.

thats it right there, crosby has heart, determination like no other rookie imo. daigle..hahaha what a punk

something along the lines of
"nobody will remember who was drafted 2nd overall"
guess pronger owns him.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by googe


actually gretzky had 137 points in his first season. selanne had 132. since gretzky played for in the WHA for a year prior to joining the NHL, which was also considered pro, he technically wasnt considered for any "rookie" records.


Which brings us back to where we started, Selanne holds record for most points by a rookie. ;)

I don't think Crosby will be great like Lemieux and Gretzky were, however the bar is so much higher now IMO, the gap between Great players and poor players has become much smaller. Even if Crosby becomes as skilled as the two legends he wouldn't have as big an impact.

That being said, I think he'll be on par with players like Jagr and Selanne when he was playing well, hopefully better.

It will be interesting to see how things go with the new rules and shootouts, I think we'll see a handful of players above 100 points this year, and goalie save percentage and GAA taking a dive. Good luck to the goalies, IMO gone are the days of sub 2.00 GAA.

My point is, even if, god willing he breaks some records, it's not the same game anymore.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The guy will be a star, no question about it. There's so much media hype over him, he can't help being one. Whether he'll play amazingly is another matter entirely. I think he'll be an excellent player, he's shown great potential.

But to be a star is one thing, to be a legend is something entirely different. It's like comparing the Spice Girls to Led Zeppelin. Sure, the girls were famous for a time, but they didn't advance their profession or leave a permanent mark like Led Zep. I don't see Crosby advancing hockey as a sport in the way Gretzky and Lemieux did.

That being said, I can't wait to see him go up against Iginla. That'll be something to see! :D :D

[88CRX]

Originally posted by Hakkola
That being said, I think he'll be on par with players like Jagr and Selanne when he was playing well, hopefully better.

No offence to those to players but IMO Crosby is on a different level or will on day be on a different level. I think Crosby will carry a team on his back one day, something like Gretzky, Lemieux or Messier has done.

There are those special players that because of their individual efforts win games for a team. Jagr did it for a couple of seasons in Pittsburg after Mario left. Players like Selanne or Kariya or Naslund or Sundin are all very skilled players, there stats show that, but when did any of those players win games for their team?

Crosby will dominate the current game how Gretzky dominated in his time.

[sexualbanana]

I think if Crosby had come into the league about 5 years ago when hockey was at the height of it's Defense-first, goals-secondary phase. I don't think he would survive the clutching and grabbing that was so commonplace at the time. Remember, in Gretzky and Lemieux time, offense was first. Grant Fuhr said it himself in an interview about his days as an Oiler. "It didn't matter if I let in 3 goals, because chances were going to score 5 or 6." Whereas now (now being the clutching/grabbing period), it's aim for a 0-0 tie (ie. The Wild and the Ducks). I think even Gretzky and Lemieux would have a hard time dealing with that kind of game.

But with the League fully committing to opening up the game again, I think Crosby will surely benefit and I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing scores similar to the Oilers Dynasty days.

[googe]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSpl

But to be a star is one thing, to be a legend is something entirely different. It's like comparing the Spice Girls to Led Zeppelin. Sure, the girls were famous for a time, but they didn't advance their profession or leave a permanent mark like Led Zep. I don't see Crosby advancing hockey as a sport in the way Gretzky and Lemieux did.


You hit the nail right on the head.


Originally posted by 88CRX
I think Crosby will carry a team on his back one day, something like Gretzky, Lemieux or Messier has done.


That cant happen anytime soon, cause pittsburgh is a pretty stacked team now. Gretzky didnt carry a team on his back either, the oilers were all-stars. Gretzky, Messier, Jari Kurri, Kevin Lowe, Grant Fuhr, Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Esa Tikkanen, etc... Lemieux really never did either. He would lead the league in goals, assists, and points, every year but the penguins still didnt even make the playoffs until the stars came along. Once Jagr, Coffey, Stevens, Barrasso, Francis, Mullen, Murphy etc came along they actually started to win. I dont think its really possible in the NHL for one player to carry an entire team, no matter how good they are.


Originally posted by 88CRX

Crosby will dominate the current game how Gretzky dominated in his time.

Honestly though, what do you base that on? He didnt do better in the QMJHL than Mario Lemieux did, and hes not gonna do better in the NHL than Mario Lemieux (or Gretzky) did. Crosby had 66 goals, 168 points in his best QMJHL year. Lemieux, 133 goals and 282 points :eek:

Even Brad Richards killed Crosby's numbers in the QMJHL, and that was only a few years ago. 71 goals, and 186 points.

Im just curious what the guy has really done that sets him that far apart from just being the next star player and being a legend. :dunno:

[googe]

well he got his first goal tonight, though it was a rebound and a 5 on 3 powerplay. penguins ended up getting spanked 6-2 :(

these new rules dont look like theyre working. every single game i look at is getting 25-30 penalties called. hopefully the teams can adapt soon, because so far this would make for some boring hockey :)

[googe]

looks like lemieux is back from his years of injuries :clap:

4 point game, and then another goal in the shootout...maybe he still is dominating :D

crosby picked up an assist...


and in other news, the oilers shut out the flames 4-0:(

[philipoo]

Flames blank Oilers 5-0 in last home pre-season game

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by googe



Even Brad Richards killed Crosby's numbers in the QMJHL, and that was only a few years ago. 71 goals, and 186 points.

:

Brad richards played a full season when he had that many points, crosby played 8 less games, if you multiply games played by point per game the difference is only a few points, I'll do the math when I get home.

Also, I believe Richards played QMJHL for 4 or 5 seasons, and his seasons had quite a bit of point disparity between them, Crosby only played 2 seasons, and both point totals were relatively close to each other, showing more consistency and at a younger age.

[88CRX]

Brad Richards

1999-00 63GP 71G 115A 186Pts
1998-99 59GP 39G 92A 131Pts
1997-87 68GP 33G 82A 115Pts


Sidney Crosby

2005-06 NHL biotch!
2004-05 62GP 66G 102A 168Pts
2003-04 59GP 54G 81A 135Pts

[googe]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Brad richards played a full season when he had that many points, crosby played 8 less games, if you multiply games played by point per game the difference is only a few points, I'll do the math when I get home.

Also, I believe Richards played QMJHL for 4 or 5 seasons, and his seasons had quite a bit of point disparity between them, Crosby only played 2 seasons, and both point totals were relatively close to each other, showing more consistency and at a younger age.

youre mistaken, on a few points. richards only only played 3 seasons, and in his best season he played in 63 games, crosby in 62, so basically the same. also, there has been at least 1 other player to post better numbers since brad richards, but i forget who now.

even if that were the case though, all it says is that hes on par with other "good" players. a far cry from record setting and dominating, which is my point.

[ca2p3r]

both gretzky and lemieux said crosby is cleacly better then they were at his age

[googe]

Originally posted by ca2p3r
both gretzky and lemieux said crosby is cleacly better then they were at his age

i think you made that up. source?

[ca2p3r]

saw it before he was drafted on sportsnet

[gongSHOW]

Originally posted by googe


i think you made that up. source?
it was all over sportsnet but here is an article i found.

(CP) - Sidney Crosby was stunned by what Wayne Gretzky said about him.
When the 15-year-old from Cole Harbour, N.S., was told over the phone that
Gretzky said Crosby could be the one to break some of his NHL records, there was
dead silence, and then:

"Wow. I hadn't heard that," said Crosby. "That's something else. That's pretty
special for Wayne Gretzky to say that. I don't think his records will ever be
broken. That's a compliment for him to say that for sure."

Gretzky, the man who put together Canada's Olympic gold medal team, must be some
kind of evaluator of talent and he told the Arizona Republic in a recent
interview that Crosby was the best player he'd seen since Mario Lemieux.

"He's dynamite," said Gretzky.

Crosby had the opportunity to skate on a line with Gretzky during a camp in Los
Angeles last summer. Crosby was back in L.A. this week skating and training in
preparation for the Canadian under-18 camp, which begins Friday in Calgary.

The buzz has been steadily building over Crosby. He was MVP of the Canadian
midget triple-A championship at the age of 14 and had 162 points (72 goals and
90 assists) in 57 games for the St. Mary's prep boys' team last season as a
Grade 10 student. A Grade 12 teammate was next closest in points with 116.

He had nine goals and four assists in nine games for Nova Scotia in the Canada
Games earlier this year against the top players born in 1986 and 1987.

The five-foot-10, 175-pound forward is one of 40 players invited to the camp.
Twenty-two will be chosen to represent Canada at the Junior World Cup in
Breclav, Czech Republic, and Piestany, Slovakia, Aug. 11-18.

Crosby is the only player invited born in 1987 - the rest are '86s - and he will
turn 16 on the day the Canadian team is announced.

"I've been thinking about it all summer," he said. "It goes through your mind
every day. Any time you can play for Team Canada, it's unbelievable.

"I'm close, but there's 40 guys who want to do the same thing. It's good to be
invited, but the job's not done until you're on the team so I've still got a
ways to go."

Crosby decided to go the major junior route this season and was snapped up first
overall by the Rimouski Oceanic in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League draft.
He is eligible for the NHL entry draft in 2005.

The reports on Crosby say he is a strong skater, hard to knock off the puck,
skilful with it and protects it well. He has great vision and shares the puck
with his teammates.

The under-18 camp marks the first time Crosby will don a jersey with a Maple
Leaf on it and it won't likely be the last.

"I've watched world juniors ever since I knew what was going on in hockey and
you see the pride that Canada has, so when you get a chance to represent your
country you want to try and do that," he said.

Canada has sent an under-18 team to an international summer tournament in Europe
every year since 1997 and has won gold every year.

"No pressure, there," head coach Bob Lowes chuckled, adding: "You try to do the
best job you can and not focus on that."

Players from this year's under-18 camp and the team may be available for next
April's world championship in Minsk, Belarus, if their respective junior clubs
do not make the post-season.

Canada won the gold medal at the world championship in April in Yaroslavl,
Russia, with 10 players who had played in the previous summer tournament, the
Eight Nations Cup, as well as four more players who had participated in the
summer camp.

So this week's camp is important for players who are not named to the summer
under-18 team as they could be playing for Canada in Minsk.

One of Lowes' players with the Regina Pats, defenceman Brennan Chapman,
participated in the summer camp, did not make the Eight Nations Cup team but
helped Canada win gold at the world championship.

"I think the experience he got, even though he didn't play in the Eight Nations
Cup in the summer, but from the camp helped him to be a lot better prepared to
play in the world championship," said Lowes.

Lowes, Hockey Canada director of scouting Blair Mackasey and assistant coaches
Dave Cameron and Pascal Vincent will evaluate the players over the week. Their
decision over who makes the team will likely go late into the night on Aug. 6 as
they will have to release 18 players at once.

"The biggest thing is the speed, players who can play at a high tempo and be
able to think and react at a high tempo," said Lowes. "That's been proven to be
what you need in the international game."

[Hakkola]

I'm not even too worried about how he does in his first season, I think he'll get around 45 points, hopefully more. I think ovechkin will out score him though, this season anyhow. Reason I think Crosby's point total will be so low is that he won't be the go to guy in Pittsburg, they're pretty stacked offensively, Ovechkin is far more important to washington and will probably get more ice time and more points.

As an aside, Messier turned out to be a pretty good player and he only had like 33 points in his rookie season, (something like that).

[googe]

Originally posted by gongSHOW

it was all over sportsnet but here is an article i found.


nowhere in there does it say that lemieux and gretzky said he was clearly better than they were at his age. ;)

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Hakkola
I'm not even too worried about how he does in his first season, I think he'll get around 45 points, hopefully more. I think ovechkin will out score him though, this season anyhow. Reason I think Crosby's point total will be so low is that he won't be the go to guy in Pittsburg, they're pretty stacked offensively, Ovechkin is far more important to washington and will probably get more ice time and more points.

As an aside, Messier turned out to be a pretty good player and he only had like 33 points in his rookie season, (something like that).

but look at the supporting cast crosby has compared to ovechkin.

ovechkin will get more minutes, if even - it won't be by large margins. But I think ovechkin is a great guy too, he will be coming into his own.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by stevieo


but look at the supporting cast crosby has compared to ovechkin.


Looking at the supporting cast is exactly what led me to say what I did. Ovechkin is more important to his teams success then Crosby will be to his.

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Looking at the supporting cast is exactly what led me to say what I did. Ovechkin is more important to his teams success then Crosby will be to his.

yeah, but I see it the other way, if anyone plays on a line with Mario lemieux (which I think Crosby will every other game) will boost his stats DRAMATICALLY compared to ovechkin playing on a line with say andrew cassels

[Hakkola]

Dammit, did anybody watch Pit highlights tonight? Crosby set up a Palffy with a real nice pass.

I don't care if he doesn't get a goal this year, 1 assist a game will give him 80 points :D

I have to say I'm very impressed by his playmaking abilities, didn't think I'd see anything like that from an 18 year old.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Dammit, did anybody watch Pit highlights tonight? Crosby set up a Palffy with a real nice pass.

I don't care if he doesn't get a goal this year, 1 assist a game will give him 80 points :D

I have to say I'm very impressed by his playmaking abilities, didn't think I'd see anything like that from an 18 year old.

He got 4 points in 1 game

3 Nice assists and 1 Goal...

[googe]

i dunno, im still waiting for the playmaking abilities...high assists = "playmaker" usually but if youve seen most of the ones so far its someone else cleaning up his rebound, 3rd pass not directly involved in the play, that kind of thing. hes been given a few opportune scoring chances but just cant put it in...his only goal so far was when recchi hit the post and he was there to jam it in.

and actually he only got 2 assists and 1 goal, he hasnt had a 4 point game ;)

my vote is ovechkin for the calder ;)