Cheap Rally cars

[240droptop]

I'm interested in getting into rally my question is what do some of you think a decent CHEAP car would be good for a beginer to get into this. I was thinking of usint a VW Rabbit GTI if I can find a cheap one. I was also thinking of using a Subaru Justy lol simply causes its small and all wheel drive lol. Any sugestions wold be great or if you know any rally forums aswell that would be good thxs.

[DannyO]

Hey, I ain't an expert in this area, but I can tell you Rallyin is far from cheap, a Rabbit would be a great car to use, many use Golf GTIs (wicked cars), but in rallying you will have accidents, and with accidents comes repairing things often, plus just to take part in rallying is prolly not that cheap here (dunno haven't found out) but if you are mechanicaly inclined and you can get lots of spare parts for whatever car you will go for, then it might not be too bad, I dunno what the rules are, I think you need to have a rollcage, plus you gotta have a good helmet, both ain't exactly cheap, but if you do go for it, you'll love it, rallying is just fuckin awesome.

[crazytou]

ya i would also like doing this. I ice race every year with firefly turbo great little car for the track

[pitwipe]

DannyO is right, rally ain't cheap. A Golf is an excellent route into the sport, and it's probably best to buy a used, ready prepped one rather than buying and prepping your own. Also look into the cost of entering a rally competition. Even a small local rally could cost $250 or more just to enter. On top of that you'll different tyres for different conditions, and transport with a car trailer to get you from rally to rally.

It's a great sport, and I don't want to put you off, but go into it with your eyes open. :thumbsup:

[milesmcewing]

Gee, just so happens that I have two Golf Rally cars for sale,

Drop me a line, I can certainly fill you in on the cost etc.

We do a ton of fabricating for the local community too, if you already have a car,

Cheers
Miles

[milesmcewing]

Here is a local pic of one of my older cars, not the one for sale.

[milesmcewing]

And a pic of the current car.

[PrezeS_PL]

Go for the complete build car, will cost you whole lot less - I build one this year.

Golf is for sure a great platform, may not be as fast as honda in its stock form but its for sure way tougher and tough is what you need to do this

http://forums.beyond.ca/attachment.php?s=&postid=1224984

Parts are cheep and many donors at Pick &Pull.

As to the crashing part, well some have more accidents then others but some have non. It all depends on your driving skills and ability to curve you aspirations and tendency to push hard.
This is Miles old Rabbit, Erick G race it for over two years - no offs, will see how will the new owner do.

.http://www.rallysport.ca/photos/Cochrane_Rally/images/IMG_3192.jpg

Visit this link to look up more pictures from my build up.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83752

Visit www.rallysport.ca for tons of pictures from local rally's and winter auto-x

forum on http://www.specialstage.com/ has lots of info use search before posting questions.

[Weapon_R]

An older subaru or audi quattro would be a good choice.

[PrezeS_PL]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
An older subaru or audi quattro would be a good choice.

Are you talking from experience ? where legacy would be only ok, audi would be total disaster.

drop in 10 k on car preparation only to find out that car is nowhere as quick or reliable as the other cars in its class, not even as fast as 2WD cars like a white Beetle or some Golf's.

Rabbits - come on move on ther over 20 yeras old now with some close to 30
Golf
RX7 or AE86 - RWD fun
defiantly 2.5 RS

there will be a complete Swift for sale very very soon, owner just got him self used Impreza 2.5 RS

[DannyO]

Miles, out of curiousity, how much are the 2 golfs your selling?

I'm interested:)

[Milk2%]

Golfs for rally....i dont know about that one...I'd rather try and stick with a subaru or else get a ford focus...or something along those lines...I personaly have a gt-four....and would have to say its probally the best investment i have put into... You want a rally destroyer go with a awd car!

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by PrezeS_PL


Are you talking from experience ? where legacy would be only ok, audi would be total disaster.



lol no, but just figured that the quattro would be a very cheap and good choice because of awd, same with the subarus. :dunno:

[milesmcewing]

A celica gt-4, bring a bag of money, hard to find parts and when you do, cost about a billion dollars.

AWD is not the easy answer, most of the time it just gets you further into the forest!!

A 2WD car is a better, cheaper place to learn.

Focus is a good choice, but beginner cost is still high.

As Chris said 2.5RS is a good car, just expect to put about 14,000 together to build one (at the cheap side).

Parts need to be life-cycled to avoid specific failures, get something you understand, can afford to fix, and can keep up the maintenance on. (and something that if you make a mistake with, you can recover safely)

The biggest problem with the Beetle is that it is fast!!
When you have a mistake the consequences are much higher, a slower car allows the opportunity to not have every mistake destroy the car.

Speed is how you drive, not the car.

In the 2004 winter Rally Erik beat us on a stage, the Rabbit is quick and can carry speed, the Beetle has 200HP more than Erik had. We did not make any mistakes, Erik just did a better job.That car also beat everybody at the Moose Mtn. downhill, every time it entered, my theory is that you could just carry more speed and the edge to edge time is quicker.

Buy what works, not what you thought was cool.

Happy Trails

[hjr]

Originally posted by Milk2%
Golfs for rally....i dont know about that one...I'd rather try and stick with a subaru or else get a ford focus...or something along those lines...I personaly have a gt-four....and would have to say its probally the best investment i have put into... You want a rally destroyer go with a awd car! not quite. there are more golfs in western canada rallying than just about any other car. both focus and gt4 are not at all easy or cheap to get going. both 'can' be competitive (focus more so) in their class, but there are better options around (refer to above post).

so you know what is up, it is just about impossible to prep any given car for less than around 5000. That is the very cheapest of cheap (even on stuff you 'should' spend more on like helmets, seats, suits, etc.). Many have tries to beat this # but i dont know of any one who has (myself included). This number also does NOT include the price of the car. that is prep cost (assuming you are starting with a street car and have none of the nessisary items on hand for one reason or another)

the cheapest way into the sport is buying a used car. it is also a hell of a lot easier and faster way to get into the sport.

my $0.02

[milesmcewing]

Hey Adam,
What are you building/playing with these days?

[PrezeS_PL]

Celica - oh man how much would it cost to get 2 spare trannys, engines, axels, breaks difs, radiators body parts ? $50000 ?

I have like 3 spare motors 4 trannys tons of axels, complete front clip and tons of other goodies ?

it cost 10 grand to build up $1000 golf how much it cost to build celica ?

Well my friend has WRX for sale, it was only $35000 to build plus brand new WRX so total was like $75 k

He only wants $28000 for it
it needs 8 to 10 tires to get thru one rally, 100 liters of race fuel and that if you don't break anything should be less than $ 3k per rally

The most importend thing is , Can you afford to write it off ?

Just like Adam did to his Datsun 510 in the video clip below

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=047HWML4N7MZJ3GUN99ILKYOGR

Hi Adam so are you comming to PFR ?

[hjr]

ive got this damn 16v gti that i cant get running. ive entered pfr, but with no ignition, its tough, haha.

im pretty confident that ill be alright though, and im quite excited to do some night stages.

[PrezeS_PL]

Just on Fraiday i made list of things to do before PFR , allmost whole page :( it will be busy 2 weeks

http://s20.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2PJWQDUS7ETTK33DUEF6F9N05Q

Cant get that to work properly on computer but i have it on the tape

[hjr]

there is a big white block in the center of the video, haha

[PrezeS_PL]

Originally posted by hjr
there is a big white block in the center of the video, haha

can you hear the whoop - vw into the trees ?

That white strip is only there when riped to the computer, its not there if played on tv,
Same thing with Bighorn i have 30 min from Edson and its nice quality video untill i capture it to the hard drive then that white strip show up again.

[milesmcewing]

Hey, I remember that!!

That was a cracked upright, the front right wheel snapped right off!

(remember the statement about life-cycling)

[Altezza]

Rally is a very expensive sport. It might be "cheaper" during the initial learning period, but once you get into more competitive events, bills for individual rallies can easily be in 4-digit range.

Buying a prebuilt car is much easier and cheaper on the wallet. Some of the cars that I've seen built for $200k and used for one season, sold for ~$120k. Another I had seen had been built for $120k, was selling for about $70k.

[Lo)2enz0]

umm this sounds like a good idea. I have a golf thats just sitting around.

[R-Audi]

Hey Miles,
What modifications do you have done to the beetle engine wise?

Just thinking with it having over 200hp more then a golf, and I figure the golf would be around 100+..

[milesmcewing]

What haven't we done!

Would be the better question. Driveability is our biggest concern, we don't look for peak HP, we look for torque.

Call me for a beer, and I'll tell you.

[Redlyne_mr2]

What do you guys run for suspension on your cars?

[240droptop]

ok sry haveint posted for a couple days. I and a few freinds plan on building this car ourselves I have looked into buyng a rally car pre made and have sent a pm to a couple of the guys who posted on this thread. I know rallying is not a cheap sport thats why i figured a rabbit or golf would be a good car to use simply case the reckers are full of them. Any other sugestions on a good affordable basis to start with for a rally car? again thanks to all who posted those sites are cool and some of the pictures are awsome lol

[finboy]

anyone thought of using a miata for rally? they are getting pretty cheap, have a good chasis, and so long as you snag a hard top i couldn't see it being too bad.:dunno:

[milesmcewing]

Budget considerations:

$3000+ for a rollcage, no your local muffler shop can't bend one up.
$2000-10000+ for suspension
$2500 for safety equipment- suits, helmets, belts, intercom etc.
$800 for the rally computer, used ones are nearly impossible to find.

Be realistic in your goals, most people will spend 500+ hours to prep the car.

for the earlier question, we use DMS or a custom built Rancho suspension for rally, for roadrace we use Bilstein PS9.

The Bilstein Rally is a great setup for the Golfs etc. not sure of current price but certainly great products and great price for what you get.

About the Miata, illegal to use a convertible, the hardtop is not structural for that car.

Cheers
Miles

[PrezeS_PL]

I have coustom bilstein rally, 42 mm inverted struts in chromoly thick wall tubing, $$$$ stil les than DMS:D

Basic Proflex suspension for MKII Golf is $5500.00 - maybe one day ;)

[milesmcewing]

Hey Chris,

That is the price for the old Proflex, they don't make any more

It is now $$11,000.

Hey give other Chris a call, he is looking for his Corrado bits.
Cheers

[PrezeS_PL]

Tom M. just ordered a set of Proflex for his Golf from 4star, maybe proflex still has them in stock.

I just talked to him this afternoon, I left the msg with Arlyn sometime ago - didn't know he's not in Calgary

[nhlfan]

A 2WD car is a better, cheaper place to learn.

quoted for the absolute truth.

[hjr]

my sproingers:

close of front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/PrezeS_PL/P4180027Small.jpg
front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/PrezeS_PL/P4180026Small.jpg
rear
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/PrezeS_PL/P4180025Small.jpg

[Milk2%]

Originally posted by milesmcewing
A celica gt-4, bring a bag of money, hard to find parts and when you do, cost about a billion dollars.

AWD is not the easy answer, most of the time it just gets you further into the forest!!

A 2WD car is a better, cheaper place to learn.

Focus is a good choice, but beginner cost is still high.

As Chris said 2.5RS is a good car, just expect to put about 14,000 together to build one (at the cheap side).

Parts need to be life-cycled to avoid specific failures, get something you understand, can afford to fix, and can keep up the maintenance on. (and something that if you make a mistake with, you can recover safely)

The biggest problem with the Beetle is that it is fast!!
When you have a mistake the consequences are much higher, a slower car allows the opportunity to not have every mistake destroy the car.

Speed is how you drive, not the car.

Happy Trails



Originally posted by PrezeS_PL
Celica - oh man how much would it cost to get 2 spare trannys, engines, axels, breaks difs, radiators body parts ? $50000 ?

I have like 3 spare motors 4 trannys tons of axels, complete front clip and tons of other goodies ?

it cost 10 grand to build up $1000 golf how much it cost to build celica ?

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=047HWML4N7MZJ3GUN99ILKYOGR

Hi Adam so are you comming to PFR ?

Well lets see....i think you guys are a little to harsh on the celica...i'm probally runnning around 270-280 hp basically stock....just a bump up in psi....16, and a little stripping. I only have an intake, and have orderd a full 3" exhaust system...hoping to bump up about 50 more hp..

I'm a student paying for school, but wait...i thought you said it was like 50,000 to run a gt-four.....i dunno.....i've probally only spent 1,000 on my car...

Also i can pick up a tranny from about 3 different cars, you would be amazed how easy it is to pick up parts for a gt-four. Second of all...how do you think parts are expensive......the gt-four has a 3s-gte engine...which is in an mr2....i have no problem with getting parts. Second to back my opionion....the car was made for rally....which makes it already a good car....so i don't know about you guys, but i think your a little mis judged on the price of the car...if your going into rally, you better have money...shit thats the sport....your gonna run into problems with every rally car...its the just the game. People under estimate the power of a celica.

The reason you don't see many gt-fours and alltracs because there was a limited amount made...there were like only 4,000 or something sold in north america in like 4 years...the rarity of the car is the only reason people don't use this car more in rallys. To be honest your going to be spending just as much on any car, rabbit or celica....i just personally think you will get more performance out of the celica then the rabbit. I own one and can't say anything better about them, people just don't see how much you can get out of them :D

my 2 cents

[milesmcewing]

I decided to remove my post to avoid a flaming war!

Cheers

[hjr]

you will spend more on a celica than on a rabbit. trust the folks who have done it, rather than what you think it should cost

[Milk2%]

ok, well don't worry, people have there opionions
I just don't know why i'm getting all these parts at a good price...and there not hard to find :O