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View Full Version : Radar Detector Education - Owners and Prespecitve Buyers Please Read



Mitsu3000gt
10-05-2005, 07:14 PM
Hi all,

I've got a little time on my hands today, so I decided to educate people on the actual usefullness of radar detectors. I used to own one (ESCORT Passport 8500). I received 2 tickets, both from Lidar, and both while my radar detector was in use. This prompted me to do further extensive research of my own and talk to several of Calgary's finest. It pains me to see how many Calgarians have these things in their windows, when in reality in our city they do next to nothing. The following will explain why, in Calgary, radar detectors are in my opinion a bad investment, and other things you can use:

1) First of all, it is a high-theft item. For those who do not remove them from their windows when they park, it is increasing your chances of a break-in.

2) 99% of the speed traps in Calgary are LASER RADAR (Lidar). I was informed by a friend in the Police service that there are maybe 2 or 3 active traditional radar guns in use, and only the older fashioned officers use them. Also, I personally have never seen a traditional radar gun setup, and virtually all of the officers that "hide" behind a post, hill, or bush are all using Lidar. They can use it from a tripod, free-hand or from their cruiser. The better radar detectors do a fantastic job of detecting older RADER guns, unfortunately you will likely never encounter them. Many of the newer radar detectors have "Laser Detection"; some of them front and rear. It is important to understand that all your "laser detector" can do, is tell you WHEN YOU HAVE ALREADY been hit, and under virtually no circumstances can warn you of an impending hit.

Keep in mind on the highway, for example from Calgary to Edmonton, traditional radar is still used and a radar detector may prove useful. I am primarily refering to city use in this post.

At 500ft, the laser beam is no more than 8 or 9 inches wide (traditional radar being about 150ft). This beam is also moving at the speed of light (299,792,458 meters/second) and goes away as fast as it comes - it does not hang around to be detected. In a matter of seconds it does a distance/time calculation several thousand times as it bounces off your car and back to the Lidar gun and averages the results, producing an extremely accurate reading. Additionally, the officer will aim at your headlights, as they are the most reflective surface and every vehicle has them. If your car is equipped with pop-up headlights, all they need is a side marker light or anything with reflective tendencies (even a non-black paint job will do wonderfully) There is no way, with a detector sitting in your window or even lower dash, that the detector will even see this beam of light unless the officer is a very poor shot. Again, if the detector does pick it up, it will only tell you that you have already been hit. It might as well be a "prepare to pull over" warning.

3) Radar detectors, from my experience, are generally annoying. They have an uncanny ability to warn you of automatic doors (X-band), microwaves in fast food restraunts and other things that emit radio frequences.

Now that you understand how Lidar and radar detectors work you can now make an informed decision to trade it in for an effective counter measure, get rid of it, or still keep it.

LASER COUNTER MEASURES

1) First off, dark colors absorb Laser "beams". If you have a black car with pop-down headlights you will be harder to hit at long range but by no means immune. All this does is reduce the effective range of the Lidar gun.

2) Laser Jammers. These are your only very effective counter measure. They essentially stop you from being hit by laser. The only one that really works, and that frequently wins Speed Measurement Laboritories tests is the BLINDER M20 Extreme. SML, by the way, is a company hired by police officers so that they can become aware of the countermeasures available to the public that they will be up against. The company purchases all test units from stores, so that manufacturers cannot send them "juiced up" units to make them look better. Anyways, this jammer consists of 2 long, skinny modules that mount between your headlights - right around where the officer will aim. It then projects a virtual wall infront of your vehicle. When the "wall" sees a laser, it first determins what frequency it is and then determins the best jamming frequency to suit the laser. Then, the officer will then see, on the back of his Lidar gun, either a JTG (jam to gun), no reading whatsoever, or ERR (error) reading. The beauty of this is that several things, including intense sunlight, can product a JTG reading.

Now that you know how they work, you need to use them properly too. When you get hit by Lidar with a jammer installed, it will alert you. You then slow down and TURN OFF the jammer. This way, when the officer shoots you again because of the strange reading he got the first time, you will not be speeding and he will likely dismiss suspicion of any sort of "funny business".

3) There is a product called VEIL on the market. This product works exactly as advertised. Please note it only claims to REDUCE the effective range of a Lidar gun, and by no means claims to make you immune to them like the Blinder Laser Jammer. It is a solution that you "paint" into you headlights, that absorbs Laser, substantially reducing the effective range of a Lidar gun - from about 30-60%, depending on the color of the vehicle. Speed Measurement Laborotories also tested this product and confirmed it's claims. Their website, including all test results, is:

www.speedzones.com

I'm sure there will be those who disagree with me or think they have been "saved" by radar detectors and that is fine. The facts are available to anyone who wishes to read them on a variety of informative websites.

P.S. Radar detectors are programmed to tell you what kind of radar you are detecting by the frequency. If something that isn't law enforcement is producing a similar frequency, it will show up on your detector as such because it doesn't know the difference.

I hope this has been helpful, thanks for reading,


Mark

Mazstyle
10-05-2005, 07:29 PM
I agree, I have one and it's never gone off legitimately in this city, which has made me wonder on the effectivness, I'm not sure how the photo radar work exactly but whenever I drive by one of those vans it doesn't even beep or anything and from what I've seen thats like 90% of the radar setups here.

RickDaTuner
10-05-2005, 07:33 PM
thanks for the Info. i guess i'm getting a jammer

Tha VZA
10-05-2005, 07:42 PM
well this will always be up for debate....but i find that yes sometimes radar detectors go off at times where they shouldn't...but when using one you should also have a high level, wait a minute, any level of common sense will do

if it goes off "one bar" then it probably isnt the cops, if you are driving through a mall or through strip malls like the case of westhills with the two malls on either side, its probably not the cops...so just press mute, ignore it, and be on your way

as for X-band, yes it does detect door openers sometimes, but when its a cop using POP radar you will know.....why, because it scares you into braking the thing is so annoying....today i saw my detector go off "full POP radar", didnt see the cop for another 3 blocks...around a corner, so he couldn't have targeted me as line of sight principles say....but did get someone in front of me, which set off my detector

the detector i have also detects laser, but again yes laser is quick and will not save you unless they hit a car in front of you....which usually happens for me

i don't know which radar is better than which otehr one for different types/conditions but for highway they are great, and city, less great but still helpful

i havn't got one ticket, k-ka-x bands or laser since i bought it

and have been saved many times on the highway

imo....they are great

ciao

Mitsu3000gt
10-05-2005, 07:53 PM
To answer your question, Laser rader is best for all conditions. It is by far the most accurate, hardest to detect, hardest to stop and instant. It also works in ALL weather conditions. With the exception of blatently obvious photo radar vans, laser radar is basically all officers use in Calgary, and therefore my arguement was directed mainly at people buying detectors thinking they can beat the majority of speed traps.

I also think its important to know that the officer could of still been using Lidar, and something around you could of been producing a similar frequency to POP. Radar detectors can only tell you what frequency your picking up, not whats emitting it. The fact that you saw a cop a few blocks away, and around a corner, makes me think that it was a coinsidence, but it certainly is possible that your detector worked as it should have in that situation.

Mark

EnRich
10-05-2005, 08:03 PM
I have a laser jammer installed, it works and its awesome... I also have the escort 8500 connected directly to the jammer... The escort 8500 or even the new one BLOWS... Total waste of money, I'll never ever buy an expensive or in-expensive radar detector again... Pieces of shit no matter what you get, even V1...

Rich

rc2002
10-05-2005, 09:31 PM
Yeah radar detectors are useless unless you're on the highway. But the Blinder M20 jammer works awesome for the city. Best investment I ever made!

SilverBoost
10-05-2005, 10:55 PM
well that's certainly some uselful information and the facts are very accurate, however, I have ot disagree that it's totally useless as some claim. I've deteced RCMP radar up to a km away on the highway between here an Banff, and it's saved my ass at least 3 times. Add up those tickets plus the insurance rate and I'll guarantee you it's already paid for itself.

And I don't know abuot other detectors, and I do realize the Photo Vans ARE Pretty obvious but only when you're watching all the time. My Passport X50 picks up the Photo Vans all the time. And it too has saved me a few times when I've not been exactly keeping an eye out for them.

On the highway you just have to drive with common sense... don't speed in areas where there are blind corners or over the crests of hills etc.... basically places that would make great radar areas. I've been hit with laser a few times, and my detector has gone off all of those times, but it's true that if I hadn't already slowed down, I may have gotten the ticket anyway because of how quick it works. But it does detect it.

Anyway, as I said, great info, but I paid $600 for mine and it's already paid for itself more than once, and that's all that really matters. Even if it never works again, there's are at least 6 major fines I'd have on my record right now that I don't, and I don't think you can argue that.

Good write up though. :thumbsup:

Mitsu3000gt
10-05-2005, 11:21 PM
I didn't say radar detectors are useless in general, only when detecting Lidar. I only believe they are a bad investment when viewed as a whole unless your a highway commuter. Also I agreed with you that on the highway they are useful. Additionally, I made clear that my analysis was for city use.

I also agree that if it saves you even once, it's paid for itself due to the insurance hike that you will be paying for over a period of time.

Mark

LUDELVR
10-06-2005, 12:41 AM
How much do these rader jammers usually go for. It's prolly in one of the previous posts, but does it also jam from the back...hmmm, that kinda sounds erotic! Anyway, does it protect you from the rear (that doesn't sound any better) like from a photo radar van?

DannyO
10-06-2005, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by LUDELVR
How much do these rader jammers usually go for. It's prolly in one of the previous posts, but does it also jam from the back...hmmm, that kinda sounds erotic! Anyway, does it protect you from the rear (that doesn't sound any better) like from a photo radar van?

You filthy man :barf: :barf:

:rofl:

Raz
10-06-2005, 01:57 AM
I love the radar vans now, I drive out in front of them at 5-10 km/h slowing everyone else down behind me making sure they won't get a ticket either, 90% of the time people get it and are glad they were 'saved' ;) everyone once in a while I'll get some confused ass person looking at me going all "Wtf?"

One day, I think I might get a uhaul and and "Accidentally" break down right in front of the radar van ;)

Hehe

Mitsu3000gt
10-06-2005, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by LUDELVR
How much do these rader jammers usually go for. It's prolly in one of the previous posts, but does it also jam from the back...hmmm, that kinda sounds erotic! Anyway, does it protect you from the rear (that doesn't sound any better) like from a photo radar van?

First off, it is a LASER JAMMER. Not a RADAR jammer ....Radar jammers do exist and are EXTREMELY illegal, I believe with fines up to $800,000 because they interfere directly with life support and hospital equipment.

In Calgary, the laser jammer goes for I believe $399. They are $349 USD so that's not bad.

You can buy the M40 Xtreme, which includes rear jamming units identical to the front ones for a substantial premium ($599 USD). You will rarely ever get "Lidared" from behind but it is certainly possible. It is identical to the M20 just with 2 extra jamming units.

Lastly, it only protects you from LIDAR and will have nothing to do with protecting you from photo radar or traditional radar (Ka, K or X band). The only thing that can protect you from photo radar are those licence plate covers that are designed to make your plate look blurry at the approximate angle most cameras are located in relation to your vehicle.

Another important note is that proper installation is absolutely crucial to the optimal performance of a Laser Jammer FOR EXAMPLE the jamming units must be placed between or just below your headlights, exactly perpindicular to the ground. I believe the place in Calgary that sells them will install it professionally for you.

Mark

Tha VZA
10-06-2005, 02:29 AM
hey mitsu...i am pretty sure it wasnt some other source emitting the POP x-band radar becasue it was in a residential area, where i have been lots of times, and no other time has the radar gone off full bars

to much for a coincidence for me to think so

ciao

googe
10-06-2005, 06:25 AM
x band is long extinct, it shouldnt be considered. any decent radar detector should let you disable the xband.

POP is ka band not x band.

Tuner1
10-06-2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
In Calgary, the laser jammer goes for I believe $399. They are $349 USD so that's not bad.


They are $349 USD and we keep them in stock at $425 CAD. We've sold many of them over the past few years with great results :D


Rob

Goblin
10-07-2005, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Tuner1


They are $349 USD and we keep them in stock at $425 CAD. We've sold many of them over the past few years with great results :D


Rob

Know of any professional installers?

Mitsu3000gt
10-07-2005, 02:27 AM
Pretty sure Tunerworks can do it for you or can send you somewhere. Ask them here or give them a call,

Mark







Originally posted by Goblin


Know of any professional installers?

moparman1970
10-07-2005, 06:04 PM
What kind of fine would you get if you got caught with one? Can cops tell if you have one?

Mitsu3000gt
10-07-2005, 08:23 PM
There is an in-car unit to give you alerts and allow you to disable the laser jammer. The 2 jamming units are very small and thin, and if hidden well in the grille or something like that, yes they are visible, but the officer would have to be looking for them for sure.

I believe they are LEGAL technically but im sure you could be got for obstruction of justice or something stupid like that.,

Mark

Tha VZA
10-08-2005, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by googe
x band is long extinct, it shouldnt be considered. any decent radar detector should let you disable the xband.

POP is ka band not x band.

no i am pretty sure, pop is x band, ka is like photo radar, the photo radar gun doesnt "turn on and off" it is always on

my understanding here, maybe i am wrong but the photo radar vans use Ka band, and there guns are always on...becasue when i am travelling north, and a photo van is in the south bound lane, catching speeders heading south, the radar goes full out all the while i am near the van, whether there is south bound traffic passing or not

ciao

googe
10-08-2005, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by Tha VZA


no i am pretty sure, pop is x band, ka is like photo radar, the photo radar gun doesnt "turn on and off" it is always on

my understanding here, maybe i am wrong but the photo radar vans use Ka band, and there guns are always on...becasue when i am travelling north, and a photo van is in the south bound lane, catching speeders heading south, the radar goes full out all the while i am near the van, whether there is south bound traffic passing or not

ciao

nope. youre right that photo uses ka band, but that doesnt mean nothing else uses it.

CPS = laser or Ka band
photo = Ka band
RCMP = laser or K band

x band has been extinct for years. POP is just a line of Ka band radars that are able to turn on and off fast enough to trick most detectors. im pretty sure its not even used in alberta yet, but i could be wrong on that. there are legal issues with POP readings because its less accurate apparently.

Tha VZA
10-08-2005, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by googe


nope. youre right that photo uses ka band, but that doesnt mean nothing else uses it.

CPS = laser or Ka band
photo = Ka band
RCMP = laser or K band

x band has been extinct for years. POP is just a line of Ka band radars that are able to turn on and off fast enough to trick most detectors. im pretty sure its not even used in alberta yet, but i could be wrong on that. there are legal issues with POP readings because its less accurate apparently.

yeah i know about the "exactness" of POP, and that rcmp's use k band becasue they always leave it on when they are on the highway and i ALWAYS pick it up like at least 3 km away...it still boggles my mind then where that x band came from full bore in the residential area where it has never been before...maybe it was aliens or sumthin beats me

ciao

LUDELVR
10-10-2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


First off, it is a LASER JAMMER. Not a RADAR jammer ....Radar jammers do exist and are EXTREMELY illegal, I believe with fines up to $800,000 because they interfere directly with life support and hospital equipment.

In Calgary, the laser jammer goes for I believe $399. They are $349 USD so that's not bad.

You can buy the M40 Xtreme, which includes rear jamming units identical to the front ones for a substantial premium ($599 USD). You will rarely ever get "Lidared" from behind but it is certainly possible. It is identical to the M20 just with 2 extra jamming units.

Lastly, it only protects you from LIDAR and will have nothing to do with protecting you from photo radar or traditional radar (Ka, K or X band). The only thing that can protect you from photo radar are those licence plate covers that are designed to make your plate look blurry at the approximate angle most cameras are located in relation to your vehicle.

Another important note is that proper installation is absolutely crucial to the optimal performance of a Laser Jammer FOR EXAMPLE the jamming units must be placed between or just below your headlights, exactly perpindicular to the ground. I believe the place in Calgary that sells them will install it professionally for you.

Mark

My bad on the radar thing...also, I think I was drunk when I typed that or something..."rader" :nut: :nut:

Anyway, That's great to know, but I don't want to get that sheet over the rear plate, I get enough flack having a clear one that's a whole lot less conspicuous than those burry ones!! Is it possible to put a laser jammer on the rear of your car? I'm wondering if the laser jammer that you place on the front can also be used on the rear...the exact one that is. Can you just simply wire them in together?

Finally, can you use a radar detector in conjunction with the laser jammer? Will having a radar detector like your typical ones that work well on the highway but not the city, work well with a laser jammer or will one effet the other or vice versa?

It's like everyone has said, my radar detector has saved me countless times on the highway but in the city...IT AINT SHIT!! It only annoys the shit outta me!!:thumbsdow

Once again man, excellent info!!:thumbsup: You can count on me buying one of these jammers when I start driving again in Canada!! Maybe two if they'll work on the rear!:thumbsup:

kenny
10-10-2005, 12:56 PM
If you want rear coverage on a smaller car you can buy the jammer designed for SUVs (that have four jammers instead of two) and wire the second pair at the rear of the vehicle.

5.0
10-10-2005, 01:28 PM
Good info! I was recently looking at buying a radar detector but now i think ill look ingto the jammer! Again thanks for the info!

Mitsu3000gt
10-10-2005, 10:56 PM
The M40 Xtreme is idtneical to the M20, except with 4 jamming modules instead of two. You can either use all 4 on the front of a huge vehicle like a semi, or you can put 2 on the rear of your car. Please note however, that is is extremely unlikely that you will ever be hit from the rear with laser.

For your second question, radar detectors and jammers will run completely independent of eachother, and if you use both, you will have all your bases covered. I would only reccomend this if you do alot of highway commuting.

Mark







Originally posted by LUDELVR


My bad on the radar thing...also, I think I was drunk when I typed that or something..."rader" :nut: :nut:

Anyway, That's great to know, but I don't want to get that sheet over the rear plate, I get enough flack having a clear one that's a whole lot less conspicuous than those burry ones!! Is it possible to put a laser jammer on the rear of your car? I'm wondering if the laser jammer that you place on the front can also be used on the rear...the exact one that is. Can you just simply wire them in together?

Finally, can you use a radar detector in conjunction with the laser jammer? Will having a radar detector like your typical ones that work well on the highway but not the city, work well with a laser jammer or will one effet the other or vice versa?

It's like everyone has said, my radar detector has saved me countless times on the highway but in the city...IT AINT SHIT!! It only annoys the shit outta me!!:thumbsdow

Once again man, excellent info!!:thumbsup: You can count on me buying one of these jammers when I start driving again in Canada!! Maybe two if they'll work on the rear!:thumbsup: