JL vs PG which one should i go with

[bdubs767]

Which system should I go with:

SYSTEM 1 JL 1500 watts:All the JL stuff is used
1 JL 1000/1
1 JL 13w7
1 JL 500/5
2 JL 10w3v2
for=about $1750

OR

System 2 Phoenix Gold 2800 watts:All the PG stuff is new with warranty
2 Xenon 1200.1
1 Xenon 100.4
6 Xenon 10" subs or 2 Xenon 12" Titanum Elite sub
for about=$1550

I've heard JL stuff is better quality and the W7 is the best sub you can get(with the combination of spl and sq) but the system but PG outpowers JL by 1300 watts and is $200 dollars cheaper.

[theken]

i have a brand new jl w7 for sale if you are interested, never been used, pm me if u want to know more

[Audio_Rookie]

PHEONIX GOLD!
or if you want to look at other high spl and good sq stuff look at.

orion
image dynamics
resonant engineering
elemental designs
Focal ($$$ though)
Eclipse

[Nissanaddict]

Is PG honestly that close to JL, if not better?

[spike98]

why do you need different size subs in each setup. Honestly go with a 13w7 and a 1000/1. That will be ALL you need. I myself have never been a fan of PG except for the old xmax subs. It seems like they are trying to hard to make there stuff look good and not enough effort in the sound department.

[bdubs767]

the reason for the different sub sizes is because Ive heard both the big subs the w7 and the elite and both miss a lot of high bass notes so the smaller non spl subs will make up for that

[theken]

a 10 w7 with a 500 is more then sufficient i have a 10 and hit 133 db its loud enogh

[b_t]

ahhh dude what the fuck? You CAN'T run two different kinds of subs, it DOES NOT work that way, especially when you are combining two entirely different kinds and sizes of subs. They cancel each other out, so you get big bumps and valleys in your frequency response (when I did it with 10" and 12" rockfords and phoenix golds, I did a sweep from 30Hz up with two different kinds of subs, and you will get a giant boom at around 60Hz and then almost no bass whatsoever at 85... with another smaller boom at 100Hz.. it sounds absolutely terrible).
Especially with the Titanium Elite (which is not part of the Xenon line btw) and the Xenons, this will be a serious problem since while the Elite is a great sub, it kinda huffs when it comes to high bass but will still reduce the overall output of the system.
The W7 and W3v2s won't be such a big deal, but you will still have issues. The W7 is really one of the greatest subs you can get, and if you heard one in an install and it was missing the high notes, the crossover on the amp was set to only play lower frequencies (like a sub is supposed to). It actually probably sounded perfect.
You seem to be wayyyyy too focused on bass. You are spending almost $2,000 just on making bass. Your system is going to sound like complete shit that way. If you think you are lacking in the "high bass" or more properly, the midbass region, you need some better component speakers. Your ears will combine the two sounds - the midbass from the components and the bass from the subs - to give a perception of more upper bass and midbass. You can't use subs to compensate for that, or you sound like every other idiot in high school with a system like that. You aren't an idiot dreamer in high school, are you?

Look into something more like this:
Phoenix Gold Titanium Elite 3-way component set ($900 at proper retail)
Phoenix Gold 12" Titanium Elite
Phoenix Gold Xenon 1200.1
Phoenix Gold Xenon 200.2

or

JL Audio ZR 6.5" component set ($ very expensive)
JL Audio 13W7
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 300/2

either way costs about the same amount of money, and will sound thousands of times better.

and then for my elemental designs plug:
look into elemental designs. http://www.edesignaudio.com/ they make some great stuff, a lot of it equals or surpasses JL Audio's stuff (the speakers are just as good, and the subs are better since they sound the same, are louder, and cost a lot less).
Look into this system:

eD 6500s component set ($350)
eD 16Ov2 ($235)
eD Nine.2X ($265)
eD Nine.2 ($215)
package pricing is 15% off

That system will be $905 brand new, direct from elemental, has a three year transferable warranty (which helps the items keep their resale value), and will sound as good or better then the Phoenix Gold system and as good as the JL system (and the JL system costs over twice as much).
As far as output goes, the 16Ov2 has done over 150dB in competition (one 16Ov2 has posted equal numbers to two 13W7s), and the entire line has gotten absolutely astounding reviews from everyone who has ever auditioned one of their products. Dave MacKinnon, for instance, who reviews for Peformance Auto and Sound mag, gave a couple of their subs a glowing review in PASMAG and over on http://www.canadiancaraudio.com/ and some major car audio mags based in the States love their stuff. You can visit the eD forum over at http://www.icixsound.com/ and see what they have to say over there. The guy who runs and founded eD, Ben Milne, posts on icixsound all the time and you can contact him in person if something is ever wrong with the sub. The customer service is amazing. bla bla bla. Buy this stuff instead.

[Weapon_R]

Why only these two systems?

[Mad$ella]

b_t is right, you can't run different sizes of subs because they cancel each other out. If you do go the PG way (I personally really like PG, and I used to sell it) do the Titanium Elite but you will need a super huge amp to make that baby sound proper. I don't know if the 1200.1 is enough, that sub is power hungry. In addition what ever route you choose to go make sure the box is built properly and to the specs of the sub. That Titanium Elite and the 13w7 both need really specific boxes to make them preform to the max.

Just my 2c

[bdubs767]

well thanks for the advice guys but if im running to different size subs off two different amps i dont think it matters. For example over the summa I had 2 12w3v2 to a jl 500/1 and then for fun put my friends 2 10" infinity subs to a mtx mono black amp and the two didint cancel each other out, it was incredibly louder. As I was saying in the PG part I was plannign to run one elite sub off one xenon 1200.1 amp and 3 10" xenon subs off the other xenon 1200.1 amp. If im wrong just let me know and you guys are probaly right. And is elemnt desgin stuff realy ass good as JL. I looked at all the specs of each thing and the element desing dont really compare but Ive never heard their stuff so I wouldnt know.

[bdubs767]

also IM not worried about interior speakers I have infinity kappa I got from my friend

[b_t]

your infiniti kappas will not keep up. it will sound like shit, guaranteed.
and on paper eD's stuff is all better then the W3v2s, by a long shot... and they cost half as much. The Ov2 does not compare to a W7 on paper, but it has an even bigger cone since it is an inch oversized with a narrow roll surround and handles almost twice as much power as eD rates it for.
and you can do two different kinds of subs if you want. it maybe have been louder on certain notes or with rap music where everything is a test tone (and all subs play test tones well) but with fast paced music, it will be boomy. You may feel it more or think its louder, but a lot of impact will disappear. I have never had success with this kind of thing.
You would basically be wasting your really good sub. The show cars that use two different kinds of subs are only using the big sub below 50Hz and then the other subs from 50-100Hz, so you are spending twice as much money to get the same amount of volume people have been getting out of just one kind of sub forever.
There was a Phoenix Gold demo car that used a Titanium Elite and three 10" Titaniums with about 6,000 watts of amps, and the Elite barely did anything. It looked cool, but the sub was underutilized... it was just there for show. This is not something you should be doing for sound... this sort of thing is for looks only.

[bdubs767]

alright them scrap the sub idea then,thnaks b_t so you think I should do an all ED system even over JL if I have the money. and If so tell me what their best stuff is for interior speaker amps and subs.

[b_t]

I personally would go with the all eD system, it would be all brand new with warranty as opposed to second hand and potentially garbage bagged shit, and brand new it still costs less then the JL does used.
just poke around http://www.edesignaudio.com/
The eD 6000s are the "cheap" speakers which are about the same as JL Audio midrange component speakers, the 6500s are the same as the JL Audio XR components and are almost as good as the Titanium Elites from Phoenix Gold
The Kv2s are the good subs, they pound and are extremely clean sounding... they are comparable in SQ to a W3v2 but surpass them by a good bit when it comes to volume. And they are only like $125. The Ov2s are the better subs, they are even cleaner sounding then the Kv2s and much louder. They are louder then a W6v2 always and some installs with carefully built ported boxes are louder then a W7 with comparable sound quality.
All of the elemental amps are really good. They are the same basic amp as the Tsunami 1100db, the old Avionixx amps, etc. It is hard to go wrong with the elemental amps. Just choose whichever ones suit your system the best.

[bdubs767]

still willing to hear other opions on the thread tho, but thanks b_t

[bdubs767]

b_t what are you running in your car

[b_t]

I've got Ultimate Platinum 6.5" components, some junky Pioneer coaxials I have disconnected, and then an elemental Designs 12K in a ported box with a 1,000 watt Hifonics Brutus amp. The 12K is elemental's old old design, from like three years ago, but it still is absolutely ridiculously good.

[Z24_3.1.]

PG

[Khalil.e]

Adire Audio :)

RE XXX :)

Blueprint :)

Digital Designs :)

ED :)

[Audio_Rookie]

forgot about Adire Audio...brahma.....o ya!
buck for buck ED has some AWSOME stuff!

[vect0r]

phoenix gold...

[DR.Gonzo]

JL Audio makes some absolutley fantastic gear. I will agree with B_T that you should not mix the sizes of your woofers though. the reason is not so much it will sound like SHIT as he says....... it will likely be loud as hell, just about as acurrate for musical reproduction as a one eyed man in a darts contest. Now dont get me wrong, guys like Steve Brown have pulled some amazing installs off utilising multipal size woofers but it doesnt happen alot. Unless you have certain tools like time alignment, RTA to determine proper crossover points and an assload of time to make it happen I dont recomend the different sizes. still that being said, I like the JL personally over the Phoenix gold, Ive done alot of installs with their gear and it has always worked awesome. the W7 in the proper box will do WHA?TEVER you want it to do. if SQ is your game, go sealed ..... great frequecy extension as well as good output. However the right vented box and you will be able to hit and easy 140 with it.... though sq will be not good. As far as ED goes, I hear alot of people spouting off about it, but you know in my 6 years as a Iasca judge and all the shows I have seen , I have yet to hear ED sound very good at all. Loud enough for the money, just not good sounding

[DR.Gonzo]

If you want some other options from what you have said there are lots of great companies such as Image Dynamics, Diamond Audio, Boston Acoustics, RE, DLS, MTX , Focal, Treo to name a few.

[b_t]

Originally posted by DR.Gonzo
the reason is not so much it will sound like SHIT as he says....... it will likely be loud as hell, just about as acurrate for musical reproduction as a one eyed man in a darts contest. Now dont get me wrong, guys like Steve Brown have pulled some amazing installs off utilising multipal size woofers but it doesnt happen alot. Unless you have certain tools like time alignment, RTA to determine proper crossover points and an assload of time to make it happen I dont recomend the different sizes.


every time someone asks a question on the internet, I assume they are going to go about it the wrong way. a mismatched sub setup can be done, sure, but if you just drop everything in and run all the subs on the same lowpass, you will get the booms and valleys in your frequency response as I described... to properly execute this sort of thing you need to have very carefully setup bandpass filters and do a lot of testing.

[93hustler]

If you are interested in PG and JL stuff find a store that sells this gear go in and listen to them both and base the decision for that. From what I've heard on various car audio forums ED gear is also very good. New stuff w/ great warranty for less $ seems like a no brainer.

[93hustler]

Oh ya remember it doesn't matter how good the gear is, if it isn't installed properly it will sound like junk.